Problem is i have no intention of paying over a $100 just to play this game.
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Crimson Dragon (XBLA/Kinect) - New game info + videos [Project Draco renamed]
- Thread starter duckroll
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Problem is i have no intention of paying over a $100 just to play this game.
Alx
Member
How is it a problem ? It's just a choice for you to make. You can either buy "almost Panzer Dragoon" on kinect, or not buy it. Which is better than no choice at all.
This is actually turning out better than I expected and my hopes were pretty high considering the talent involved. Finally another reason to use my kinect.
MS: "Buy kinect, YOU ARE THE CONTROLLER"
Gamers: "Nah, it doesn't have any games"
MS: "Hey here's a game you should like on Kinect, YOU ARE THE DRAGON"
Gamers: "Regular controls please"
MS: "Well will you still buy Kinect?"
Gamers: "nah it doesn't have any games"
.........
None of it is a waste. People say kinect doesn't have any games, so they are creating games people may want to play on the device. The few times a game pops up, people ask for normal controls, which brings us back to the core issue many gamers have.
Then the game isn't for you.
MS: "Buy kinect, YOU ARE THE CONTROLLER"
Gamers: "Nah, it doesn't have any games"
MS: "Hey here's a game you should like on Kinect, YOU ARE THE DRAGON"
Gamers: "Regular controls please"
MS: "Well will you still buy Kinect?"
Gamers: "nah it doesn't have any games"
.........
None of it is a waste. People say kinect doesn't have any games, so they are creating games people may want to play on the device. The few times a game pops up, people ask for normal controls, which brings us back to the core issue many gamers have.
Then the game isn't for you.
It's just that I always wanted to try the series (i know it's not really a sequel or even plays the same as the old games) and when I'm given a chance I have to buy a piece of hardware I never wanted. There's just too little games on it right now to justify the cost.
Guess I choose not to buy it.
If you live in the states, you can buy PDO, BC works fine for the most part and the original panzer dragoon included in the game even works as well.
It would be much cheaper and more in line with what you're asking for than this game.
BattleMonkey
Member
Your lumping everyone in one group as being the same people asking for the same games. This looks cool, but I wouldn't want to spend money on kinect just for it. Is there any other Kinect game interesting to me? No, so I obviously feel like the system has not "games" for me. One game is not enough to sell me on a system.
I'm not really lumping everyone together since this initiative from MS does apply to you as well.
I can understand one game alone is not enough to purchase kinect, but unless MS sticks to their guns, they will never have enough games for anyone to justify the purchase.
Besides, it's not like I was trying to single anyone out with that part of my post. It was just a general example to one of the biggest issues MS faces with kinect.
Unfortunately I have a pal 360, and it seems to be buggy. Am I forced to watch the full motion videos?
Alx
Member
You could try to find a second-hand Xbox1 (the hardware is quite reliable), but then you'd be back to needing to buy new hardware to play the game... it should be cheaper than a kinect + new game, though.
BrownieVonTurdmeisterIII
Neo Member
I don't know, man. I can't think of anything Kinect-related that doesn't automatically make the word "niche" spring to mind.
I wouldn't necessarily accuse gamers of being too finicky in regards to the Kinect. It just doesn't have the broad appeal that Microsoft's been trying desperately to convey.
Even if it's just one game to you, it's the start of something. MS obviously wants to build a base, and having multiple good exclusives with it is a way to start.
Takamura-San
Member
It is missing an "o" 
I think you're missing the point which I tried to describe in my previous post. The issue is not just a lack of good games for Kinect, but for games that justify the existence of Kinect. If Kinect doesn't allow me to play games that I could not play as well or better with a controller, then there is simply no reason to have games made exclusively for it or make the Kinect in the first place. This game, while it does look good, does not justify the existence of Kinect as an interface and so it's puzzling why it would be Kinect exclusive; therefore, it will not appease the Kinect criticism.
MightyHedgehog
Member
I don't know how you guys continually miss the point that this game only exists because of what the designers thought Kinect was good at bringing to the table and because MS is the only one who will fund its development. No Kinect = no Crimson Dragon, and almost certainly not made with the very same crew who was responsible for the Panzer Dragoon games that this title is clearly inspired by.
Are you Don Mattrick, Kudo Tsunoda, or Steve Ballmer? No? Then guess what, it doesn't matter what you think justifies Kinect or not. Also, I'm pretty sure the guy who's worked on Panzer Dragoon and Phantom Dust knows what the fuck he's doing.
Willy Wanka
my god this avatar owns
This was always going to be one of the games that would push me towards an eventual Kinect purchase (along with a couple of the other games announced at TGS last year). It's disappointing there are no traditional control options but Kinect controls work well with this style of gameplay so I'm looking forward to trying it out.
Reallink
Member
Well it could wind up being another NiGHTS Wii situation where a lot of people would rather it not exist at all.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Doubt it. This isn't an actual Panzer Dragoon game, remember?
Hopefully they don't go back to only casual games and have something else like Sakura Samurai in the works too. Futatsugi wasn't the director for that, but he was credited as one of the four game designers:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH-YliK20SQ#t=13m40s
Impressions are mix but I'll probably get to try that before this... if I do ever get to play this beautiful looking game.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
There are already several good games that can't really be done without Kinect, i.e. they would play much differently. While a game like this could certainly be made to work with a controller, it wouldn't feel the same. A lot of people swear that while controller option indeed offers better precision, Child of Eden simply feels better with Kinect, and it's already been explained why there is no controller option in this game.
Cameron122
Member
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I CAN'T USE THE KINECT
I dunno. Haven't been following this. If that's the case, I guess it will never release on PS3/Move.
Goddamit Sony get your shit together already. This is stuff that sells Moves, not Carnival Island.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Yes.
Yes this is a Microsoft Games Studio game.
Ninja Scooter
Member
GotchaForce
Member
I love the series so I hope they do inflate the price (along with polish and content of course) and put it on disc! What's been shown so far looks fairly substantive for a xbla game, though.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Don't think so, otherwise duckroll would've listed that up front. XBLA never seems to have good visibility for future release dates.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
is there really so much kinect hatred in this thread? from what i've read, everyone just wanted an option to play it with a controller (like CoE, which did it right).
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Who would have guessed that over the course of 12 months, Kinect would get spiritual successors to both Rez and Panzer Dragoon?
MightyHedgehog
Member
Now, all we need is for Treasure to make the spiritual successor to S&P 1&2 on Kinect. Someone needs to do a Shien's Revenge/Dynamite Duke-alike, too.
That doesn't make it a good motivation or decision, nor does it demonstrate that Kinect provides us opportunities that didn't previously exist.
Do you think I'm arguing whether Kinect is a good *business* decision? Because if you do, you've somehow completely misread what I've said. I'm speaking about whether Kinect can be justified as bringing something to gaming, not whether it can be justified as bringing MS money. I would think that as a gamer and consumer you'd be more interested in the gaming part rather than the money a company makes.
And appealing to the "authority" of a game developer doesn't make your case. Game developers make decisions that gamers dislike on a regular basis and this fact observed in any number of interviews where developers will admit to mistakes they made and how they plan to resolve them in the future. It's not like this is a radically difficult field that requires years of expert knowledge to understand either, which makes your appeal to authority even less useful. You're going to have to actually provide an argument as to whether Kinect is justified as an interface for a game like this rather than asserting it to be true because a designer thought so.
Which games are those? Beyond mini games (e.g., Kinect Sports), so far the only game that looks like it might really do something unique is Steel Battalion, but given the limited information, the jury is still out on it.
If a game "feels" better to you with Kinect, that's your prerogative of course, but that is an extremely subjective argument (meaning opinions on the truth of that will vary widely) and as is such, is a rather poor metric and argument for the value/impact of the interface. A more objective argument is if it allows game mechanics that simply are not possible with a normal controller, and this what I'm challenging.
For the record, I think games *could* be made that justify Kinect as an interface. However, thus far I haven't seen much effort to that effect and I don't think Crimson Dragon, regardless of how good it is in general, is a counter point.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Gunstringer? Haunt? Even Child of Eden feels significantly different on dual analog versus on motion controls--I'm not saying better or worse, but it's like not playing the same game.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Aren't you being just a little too cocksure about the quality of the game and the necessity of its Kinect functionality without having played it yourself? My only point was that Kinect is the only reason that this game exists for us to debate. Bitching about no controller options seems fair, but to decide that this title shouldn't be due to this or is somehow bad because of it and thus undeserved for those of us looking forward to Kinect control with it seems more than just a little ridiculous (not saying you're saying this, though the sentiment has been repeatedly expressed). After the game is released, we'll see how it fares on the quality level, the worth of its Kinect control exclusivity, and (provided sales data is available) numbers for the question of its sales viability (though I suspect that this is as duckroll puts it, part of a sunk marketing effort in Japan for core titles). Whether it should exist at that point or whether they, the designers, were wrong about their commitment to Kinect-only control will be debated by everyone who might be interested in a PD title, I'm sure.
I'm not familiar with Haunt, but neither Gunstringer nor Child of Eden is doing something that could not be done with a controller being as they're rail shooters, similar to Crimson Dragon. You seem to indicate as much for Child of Eden yourself (by saying it's not better or worse), so I'm not sure why you brought it up as a response to my argument.
I'm not being too "cocksure" about anything; you're extending my argument further than it goes. In my first post here I made it explicitly clear that this evaluation is from what I can currently tell and specifically asked if anyone could provide examples of other things it does that really requires Kinect but have not been demonstrated in the video or otherwise. I'm entirely open to the possibility that it will do other really unique things with Kinect. Until then though, these are my concerns regarding using Kinect. Further I was explicitly clear that the game looks solid by itself (hence my mixed feelings upon seeing it) so if anything I'm optimistic regarding the game and am not saying the title will be bad by any stretch. I'm only challenging whether this really needed to be a Kinect exclusive and whether it really justifies Kinect as something important to gaming; that is, whether Kinect is good game interface.
Alx
Member
As long as enough people think that some games "feel" better with kinect, then its existence is justified. Of course it is subjective, but entertainment is a 100% subjective media. You can add all the objective ingredients you can find, in the end it's all about the user's opinion.
Well, they could obviously have made a traditional Panzer Dragoon game with the original controls. Except that nobody wanted to pay for it. The game didn't need kinect for its design, but it needed kinect for its funding. Blame Sega for not making a regular Panzer Dragoon game, but don't blame Microsoft for funding a kinect-exclusive one.
And as I said, the problem is that criteria is *extremely* subjective and that opinions on it vary widely, especially to this kind of gaming crowd. In which case, it's not a very compelling argument. But if you could show people that it provides game mechanisms not before possible, then suddenly you have objective criteria for justifying its existence. I don't see why you would be opposed to using an objective metric over one that is so wildly subjective.
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