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[TheNatural]

You can't really say Fighter X's age is equal to Fighter Y's age, even if they're the same.

You can say when someone hasn't had a meaningful win in 7 years compared to their age.

 

[Heel]

I'm okay with saying Fedor was the best heavyweight from 2002-2005 as long as we admit he lost interest in fighting top competition after beating Mirko.

After he fought Mirko: Coleman, Hunt, Sylvia, and Arlovski were all highly ranked heavyweights. Hell even Rogers was top 10.

 

[yacobod]

During their peaks, Tim Sylvia>>Fedor

Your attempt to troll is piss poor.

 

[Chamber]

I'm okay with saying Fedor was the best heavyweight from 2002-2005 as long as we admit he lost interest in fighting top competition after beating Mirko.

Dude, Jordan and Rice were in their 40's when they wound up with those teams. And in Rice's case, well into his 40's. And both guys did some pretty ridiculous stuff late into their careers, Rice was 40 with the Raiders and Jordan 40 with the Wizards and putting up big numbers.

Fedor? He's 34. He just LOST to a 41 year old former Welterweight/Middleweight fighting at Heavyweight, who was in PRIDE as well. He hasn't had a meaningful win in SEVEN years. He's fought tomato can washed up individuals since beating Cro Cop SEVEN years ago. None of his opponents over the past 7 years fight in a major organization anymore, after losing on a consistent basis. His career decline hasn't been some overnight thing. And BTW, a guy by the name of Anderson Silva who just destroyed yet another opponent last week is 36 years old.

Both of you are using revisionist history to discredit his career.

Mark Hunt was ranked top 10 when Pride Shockwave happened.
Tim Sylvia was ranked #4 in the world when Affliction: Banned took place.
Andrei Arlovski was ranked #2 in the world when Affliction: Day of Reckoning took place.
Mother fucking Brett Rogers was ranked top 10 when Fedor vs Rogers happened.

I don't care whether you agree with those rankings or that they might look odd in hindsight. That's the way it was.

 

[TheNatural]

Both of you are using revisionist history to discredit his career.

Tim Sylvia was ranked #4 in the world when Affliction: Banned took place.
Andrei Arlovski was ranked #2 in the world when Affliction: Day of Reckoning took place.
Mother fucking Brett Rogers was ranked top 10 when Fedor vs Rogers happened.

I don't care whether you agree with those rankings or that they might look odd in hindsight. That's the way it was.

Yeah those rankings are nice, but mean jack shit. They're people's opinions, no more, no less. It's like in college football when some undeserved team is ranked in the top 10 at the start of the year, and ends up going 6-6 or something. It really means nothing at the time when those fighters were all in the midst of their career going down the toilet.

Go look at the RECORDS.

Brett Rogers, went 1-3 his last 4, cut from Strikeforce.

Andre Arlovski, lost 4 straight in a row, until last week he fought some no name guy in Hawaii and barely won. Probably needs to retire before he starts talking like Evander Holyfield.

Tim Sylvia, lost 3 of 4, including to Ray fucking Mercer before doing the Dan Severn thing and running off wins over bar room fighters in a 'Super Heavyweight' division in one of these junk federations.

The guy hasn't beaten anyone important in 7 years, fact. The guy lost to a former welterweight who is seven years his elder, fact. He lost to two mid pack heavyweights before that, fact. None of that comes close to qualifying for Greatest of All Time in any manner.

PS - Mark Hunt? The overweight slob with a career 6-7 record??? Hahahahaha.

Yeah Fedor defense force knows no bounds.

 

[dream]

All this proves is MMA rankings have always been bullshit.

I know that sounds like a copout but, come on, when you talk about how Mark Hunt was a ranked opponent for Fedor...

 

[Chamber]

Both of you are using revisionist history to discredit his career.

.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

Brett Rogers, went 2-3 his last 5, cut from Strikeforce.

Yeah Fedor defense force knows no bounds.

Fixed

trollface.jpg

Oh and Rodgers missus looks like Al Sharpton.......... from the old thread where i said she looked like someone.

 

[Chamber]

All this proves is MMA rankings have always been bullshit.

I know that sounds like a copout but, come on, when you talk about how Mark Hunt was a ranked opponent for Fedor...

If your argument is that the Heavyweight division sucked, that's one thing. If you're arguing that Fedor didn't fight and beat the best guys available to him, you're wrong. Simple as that.

The idea that the #1 fighter in the sport needed to come to the UFC and prove HIMSELF against 4-1 Brock Lesnar is hilarious to me.

 

[TheNatural]

Both of you are using facts not opinions to discredit his career.

.

Fixed

 

[dream]

I mean, fuck, The Natural and dream usually agree on nothing.

But using arbitrary rankings to try to paint Fedor's post-2005 career as anything but handpicked can crushing is just...yeah.

If your argument is that the Heavyweight division sucked, that's one thing. If you're arguing that Fedor didn't fight and beat the best guys available to him, you're wrong. Simple as that.

The idea that the #1 fighter in the sport needed to come to the UFC and prove HIMSELF against 4-1 Brock Lesnar is hilarious to me.

Brock Lesnar held the only title that mattered. Brock Lesnar was the best heavyweight in the only company that mattered. Fedor's handlers turned down the biggest contract Zuffa has ever offered so he wouldn't have to fight Brock Lesnar.

What does that tell you?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Your attempt to troll is piss poor.

Worse than Tim Sylvia's dedication to conditioning?

 

[Chamber]

Brock Lesnar held the only title that mattered. Brock Lesnar was the best heavyweight in the only company that mattered. Fedor's handlers turned down the biggest contract Zuffa has ever offered so he wouldn't have to fight Brock Lesnar.

What does that tell you?

Doesn't tell me anything. Brock Lesnar earned the Heavyweight title with wins over Heath Herring and Randy Couture.

Spare me, please.

 

[TheNatural]

Doesn't tell me anything. Brock Lesnar earned the Heavyweight title with wins over Heath Herring and Randy Couture.

Spare me, please.

And Fedor got owned by a guy who went all of 2-2 in UFC, in Strikeforce.

 

[dream]

Doesn't tell me anything. Brock Lesnar earned the Heavyweight title with wins over Heath Herring and Randy Couture.

Spare me, please.

Wait, are we saying Randy Couture wasn't a top fighter now?

The same Randy Couture everyone considered to be the dream opponent for Fedor?

 

[Chamber]

Natural, I've already conceded that Fedor is no longer the best fighter in the sport or in the Heavyweight division. Throwing his Strikeforce losses in my face doesn't counter anything I'm saying here.

Wait, are we saying Randy Couture wasn't a top fighter now?

The same Randy Couture everyone considered to be the dream opponent for Fedor?

The same Randy Couture who left the UFC to prove himself against Fedor.

 

[Heel]

Yeah those rankings are nice, but mean jack shit. They're people's opinions, no more, no less. It's like in college football when some undeserved team is ranked in the top 10 at the start of the year, and ends up going 6-6 or something. It really means nothing at the time when those fighters were all in the midst of their career going down the toilet.

Go look at the RECORDS.

Brett Rogers, went 1-3 his last 4, cut from Strikeforce.

Andre Arlovski, lost 4 straight in a row, until last week he fought some no name guy in Hawaii and barely won. Probably needs to retire before he starts talking like Evander Holyfield.

Tim Sylvia, lost 3 of 4, including to Ray fucking Mercer before doing the Dan Severn thing and running off wins over bar room fighters in a 'Super Heavyweight' division in one of these junk federations.

The guy hasn't beaten anyone important in 7 years, fact. The guy lost to a former welterweight who is seven years his elder, fact. He lost to two mid pack heavyweights before that, fact. None of that comes close to qualifying for Greatest of All Time in any manner.

PS - Mark Hunt? The overweight slob with a career 6-7 record??? Hahahahaha.

Yeah Fedor defense force knows no bounds.

Someone could do the same schmucky routine for Anderson Silva. It means nothing. Know your history and try to answer:

If Fedor wasn't the best heavyweight, who was?

If Fedor isn't the best heavyweight of all time, who is?

Who did it better than Fedor?

Brock Lesnar held the only title that mattered. Brock Lesnar was the best heavyweight in the only company that mattered. Fedor's handlers turned down the biggest contract Zuffa has ever offered so he wouldn't have to fight Brock Lesnar.

What does that tell you?

He could've signed to the UFC and lost to Lesnar. That doesn't change that he's the greatest to ever do it at heavyweight.

 

[dream]

The same Randy Couture who left the UFC to prove himself against Fedor.

Right, Fedor still had the mystique of being the best fighter in the world in 2007 (even if he was padding his record against guys like Mark Coleman and Hong Man Choi). To Randy's credit, he gave the impression that he cared about competing against top talent.

Fedor never even gave us that.

He could've signed to the UFC and lost to Lesnar. That doesn't change that he's the greatest to ever do it at heavyweight.

I don't dispute that he was the best from 2002-2005 and since no other heavyweight has dominated over a 3 year period, he's probably the greatest heavyweight in the history of MMA.

I just think his post-Mirko accomplishments are pretty meaningless.

 

[TheNatural]

Natural, I've already conceded that Fedor is no longer the best fighter in the sport or in the Heavyweight division. Throwing his Strikeforce losses in my face doesn't counter anything I'm saying here.


The same Randy Couture who left the UFC to prove himself against Fedor.

You're the one who brought up completely irrelevant Jordan and Rice comparisons, guys who were the best in the world well, well after Fedor's current age. Guys who were winning titles at the age that Fedor's career has long since been over as a top fighter.

 

[Chamber]

You're the one who brought up completely irrelevant Jordan and Rice comparisons, guys who were the best in the world well, well after Fedor's current age. Guys who were winning titles at the age that Fedor's career has long since been over as a top fighter.

Different athletes decline at different ages. Do you find that odd or something?

Right, Fedor still had the mystique of being the best fighter in the world in 2007 (even if he was padding his record against guys like Mark Coleman and Hong Man Choi). To Randy's credit, he gave the impression that he cared about competing against top talent.

Fedor never even gave us that.

I don't understand. Who should he have been fighting instead of the guys who were ranked at the top of the division at the time?

 

[TheNatural]

Someone could do the same schmucky routine for Anderson Silva. It means nothing. Know your history and try to answer:

If Fedor wasn't the best heavyweight, who was?

If Fedor isn't the best heavyweight of all time, who is?

Who did it better than Fedor?



He could've signed to the UFC and lost to Lesnar. That doesn't change that he's the greatest to ever do it at heavyweight.

Whoever wins in November between Cain and JDS has already proven more than Fedor has in his career. Junior Dos Santos dispatched the same guy Fedor's 'marquee win' was against in Cro Cop, and had no problem TKO'ing the guy that made Fedor tap like a baby. Cain KO'ed the other 'marquee' wins of Fedor's career, KO'ing Big Nog and finishing off the guy that Fedor was too scared to come into UFC and face in Lesnar.

 

[Chamber]

 

[dream]

I don't understand. Who should he have been fighting instead of the guys who were ranked at the top of the division at the time?

Anyone in the UFC, really.

When you call Fedor's post-2005 opponents "the guys who were ranked at the top of the division at the time," you're overlooking the fact that they were out of the UFC for very good reasons.

 

[Chamber]

Anyone in the UFC, really.

When you call Fedor's post-2005 opponents "the guys who were ranked at the top of the division at the time," you're overlooking the fact that they were out of the UFC for very good reasons.

Both Sylvia and Andrei left on their own. They did not get cut.

 

[dream]

Andrei got buried in the prelims for his last fight in the UFC. That's how persona non grata he was at that point. Timmy left with 1 fight remaining on his contract following his loss to Nog. That's how little he meant to the UFC at that time too.

Neither of them were top fighters at the time they fought Fedor and the fact that they were ranked just shows how absurd MMA rankings are.

 

[TheNatural]

Different athletes decline at different ages. Do you find that odd or something?


I don't understand. Who should he have been fighting instead of the guys who were ranked at the top of the division at the time?

Well if you're declining at 34 (well actually before that when he started his losing streak) yes it definitely counts against you. Rice and Jordan has extremely long productive careers of a decade and a half plus before reaching that point. Fedor fought his last relevant fight at the age of 27, fought paint cans for the next six years, and then went 1-3 upon returning to a major mainstream organization.

You better believe it would have counted against Jordan and Rice if they said in about 1990, "oh I'm going to go play for the Harlem Globetrotters and the Canadian Football League", and then deciding to come back to a real league completely sucked. No one would have considered them the greatest of all time by any means in their respective sport.

 

[TheNatural]

Both Sylvia and Andrei left on their own. They did not get cut.

Yeah Tim Sylvia totally left on his own, even though he barely left the octagon when Randy Couture destroyed his ass. And I think Andre Arlovski just signed a deal with Nintendo to do motion capturing for Glass Joe in the next Punch-Out game.

That's kinda like saying "oh oh you didn't fire me, I quit first! take that!"

 

[Chamber]

Andrei got buried in the prelims for his last fight in the UFC. That's how persona non grata he was at that point. Timmy left with 1 fight remaining on his contract following his loss to Nog. That's how little he meant to the UFC at that time too.

Neither of them were top fighters at the time they fought Fedor and the fact that they were ranked just shows how absurd MMA rankings are.

I was speaking with UFC president Dana White last week and I asked him about Arlovski. He said, “It’s funny you should ask me that. We were just talking about Arlovski. We want to sign him. It’s our intention to sign him. But I don’t know. We’re, well, I don’t know. We want to. Whether we will or not, I have no idea. We like Andrei and I know the fans like Andrei. I hope we can do something.”

http://www.mmaconvert.com/2008/05/13/dana-white-the-ufc-want-andrei-arlovski-back/

Being in Dana's doghouse doesn't mean shit in regards the the caliber of fighter you are. Ask Jon Fitch about that one.

 

[rvy]

y u guys mad at each other : (?

 

[Heel]

Whoever wins in November between Cain and JDS has already proven more than Fedor has in his career. Junior Dos Santos dispatched the same guy Fedor's 'marquee win' was against in Cro Cop, and had no problem TKO'ing the guy that made Fedor tap like a baby. Cain KO'ed the other 'marquee' wins of Fedor's career, KO'ing Big Nog and finishing off the guy that Fedor was too scared to come into UFC and face in Lesnar.

Hahaha...I think we just found out who's on the delusional side of this debate. Neither of these guys have a legacy close to Fedor's.

When you're reaching this hard you know you're sipping some haterade.

 

[TheNatural]

Hahaha...I think we just found out who's on the delusional side of this debate. Neither of these guys have a legacy close to Fedor's.

When you're reaching this hard you know you're sipping some haterade.

Yup that legacy kinda falls to pieces when you see who the guy has actually beat though. If Cain or JDS had a good 6-7 years fighting tomato cans adding a good 10-12 wins on their resume, it would look almost the same as Fedor's.

 

[dream]

I guess the comedy of this is while I'm arguing about what a bum Andrei was, I'm overlooking the fact that he was whooping Fedor until getting hit with a lucky punch.

 

[yacobod]

The age on your birth certificate doesn't have anything to do with your "in-cage" age. like i said in the previous thread, big nog is younger than anderson silva, but he's got way more mileage on his tires. talking about randy or hendo as some kind of normal indication of someones athletic prime is asinine. those guys are using steroids legally under the guise of TRT. a 40 year old guy does not have the T levels of a 20 year old. it's kind of silly way to get around the rules. i personally would just rather have no testing and level the playing field, let everyone juice. hell i think wand is younger than anderson too, but between all his fights and the legendary chute box training, dude is the walking dead.

if i see another guy point to randy or hendo being prime at 44 i'm going to flip.

 

[rvy]

Whoever wins in November between Cain and JDS has already proven more than Fedor has in his career. Junior Dos Santos dispatched the same guy Fedor's 'marquee win' was against in Cro Cop, and had no problem TKO'ing the guy that made Fedor tap like a baby. Cain KO'ed the other 'marquee' wins of Fedor's career, KO'ing Big Nog and finishing off the guy that Fedor was too scared to come into UFC and face in Lesnar.

You seem to be under the impression that Fedor decides where he goes and who he fights. This is amazing to me, lol.

 

[dream]

The age on your birth certificate doesn't have anything to do with your "in-cage" age. like i said in the previous thread, big nog is younger than anderson silva, but he's got way more mileage on his tires. talking about randy or hendo as some kind of normal indication of someones athletic prime is asinine. those guys are using steroids legally under the guise of TRT. a 40 year old guy does not have the T levels of a 20 year old. it's kind of silly way to get around the rules. i personally would just rather have no testing and level the playing field, let everyone juice. hell i think wand is younger than anderson too, but between all his fights and the legendary chute box training, dude is the walking dead.

if i see another guy point to randy or hendo being prime at 44 i'm going to flip.

I still like it when Herschel Walker attributes his physique to clean living, a good diet, and strong work ethic.

 

[TheNatural]

The age on your birth certificate doesn't have anything to do with your "in-cage" age. like i said in the previous thread, big nog is younger than anderson silva, but he's got way more mileage on his tires. talking about randy or hendo as some kind of normal indication of someones athletic prime is asinine. those guys are using steroids legally under the guise of TRT. a 40 year old guy does not have the T levels of a 20 year old. it's kind of silly way to get around the rules. i personally would just rather have no testing and level the playing field, let everyone juice. hell i think wand is younger than anderson too, but between all his fights and the legendary chute box training, dude is the walking dead.

if i see another guy point to randy or hendo being prime at 44 i'm going to flip.

You can use age when you haven't had a fucking real fight in seven years. Mileage is not an excuse when your career is curtailed fighting nobodies. Look at my Jordan and Rice comparison. If Jordan said in 1990 he was going to retire from the NBA to play with the Harlen Globetrotters, and then returned to the NBA in 1997 and sucked ass, he wouldn't have been considered anything close to the greatest of all time. Comparing Fedor with guys who were at the top of their game for a decade and a half is exactly the point. Fedor hasn't fought a top guy since 2005.

 

[rvy]

Yup that legacy kinda falls to pieces when you see who the guy has actually beat though. If Cain or JDS had a good 6-7 years fighting tomato cans adding a good 10-12 wins on their resume, it would look almost the same as Fedor's.

Can Big Nog and Mirko be considered tomato cans these days? Because it kinda backfires on you.

I'm just saying

 

[SolidSnakex]

You seem to be under the impression that Fedor decides where he goes and who he fights. This is amazing to me, lol.

He agreed to having those people manage him, so it's his fault. Don't sign with people that don't have your best interests in mind.

 

[TheNatural]

Can Big Nog and Mirko be considered tomato cans these days? Because it kinda backfires on you.

I'm just saying

Cro Cop definitely is, Big Nog is a middle of the road fighter now, but since some people want to bring up the same logic that Arlovski and Sylvia were prime fighters, I guess I can use that same logic to say they beat the same guys Fedor's major wins are against.

 

[dream]

Hey, Mirko is still #1 in yaco and dream's hearts.

JDS beat the #1 heavyweight!

 

[Chamber]

Judging by these arguments I think everyone should be in agreement that St-Pierre is the new GOAT of MMA, amirite?

 

[TheNatural]

Judging by these arguments I think everyone should be in agreement that St-Pierre is the new GOAT of MMA, amirite?

Second behind Anderson.

 

[Chamber]

Second behind Anderson.

Using the benefit of hindsight, we can see that Silva hasn't beaten anyone since Dan Henderson.

 

[yacobod]

Hey, Mirko is still #1 in yaco and dream's hearts.

JDS beat the #1 heavyweight!

notice i put him number 1 in the legends section!

but seriously i think mirko gave JDS his best fight in the ufc so far, he actually was hurting JDS in the first round with his lead left, then he got really tentative and lost his will to fight in the 2nd. i wish someone would level with big nog and tell him he's not a contender anymore so we can have nog/crocop 2.

 

[Quake1028]

Hahaha...I think we just found out who's on the delusional side of this debate. Neither of these guys have a legacy close to Fedor's.

When you're reaching this hard you know you're sipping some haterade.

One of the worst posts in the history of the internet (the one you quoted).

 

[dream]

notice i put him number 1 in the legends section!

but seriously i think mirko gave JDS his best fight in the ufc so far, he actually was hurting JDS in the first round with his lead left, then he got really tentative and lost his will to fight in the 2nd. i wish someone would level with big nog and tell him he's not a contender anymore so we can have nog/crocop 2.

I don't want that fight.

I have a horrible feeling the loser of that fight would also be the first death in the UFC. ):

 

[TheNatural]

Using the benefit of hindsight, we can see that Silva hasn't beaten anyone since Dan Henderson.

And GSP has faced tougher competition? Hardly. Silva puts away guys, doesn't need 5 rounds of boring wrestling to do it, and hasn't lost to Matt Serra. He's higher up on the GOAT pole than GSP.

 

[yacobod]

Using the benefit of hindsight, we can see that Silva hasn't beaten anyone since Dan Henderson.

using the benefit of hindsight u can say the same about GSP.

dan hardy has lost 3 fights in a row since his fight with gsp and he's been finished by 2 out of those 3 opponents. gsp said it was hard to finish good fighters
thiago alves has went on to lose 2 out of his last 3 fights after the gsp fight. even losing to the likes of rick story.
gsp best career win was over bj penn. and as blasphemous as it of me to say it, 170 ain't his best weight class.
matt serra lost 3 out of his last 4 fights since gsp.
matt hughes has gotten KOd pretty violently twice since gsp.

clearly all those guys were never any good either.

hindsight is a bitch.

And GSP has faced tougher competition? Hardly. Silva puts away guys, doesn't need 5 rounds of boring wrestling to do it, and hasn't lost to Matt Serra. He's higher up on the GOAT pole than GSP.

THATS A BINGO!

 

[rvy]

Cro Cop definitely is, Big Nog is a middle of the road fighter now, but since some people want to bring up the same logic that Arlovski and Sylvia were prime fighters, I guess I can use that same logic to say they beat the same guys Fedor's major wins are against.

What are you people even discussing anymore? I'm lost here, this is way too complicated.

 

[Chamber]

And GSP has faced tougher competition? Hardly. Silva puts away guys, doesn't need 5 rounds of boring wrestling to do it, and hasn't lost to Matt Serra. He's higher up on the GOAT pole than GSP.

He didn't lose Matt Serra. Just Ryo Chonan and Daiju Takase.