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[empty vessel]

I get downright angry. Health shouldn't be a product. Health shouldn't be packaged and sold to people at a premium. Health shouldn't happen with big fancy advertising. The goal of health providers shouldn't be their bottom line. The goal of health providers shouldn't be profit. Profit shouldn't even be in the equation.

The purpose and goal of a business is, in my opinion, to extract as much money from doing as little as they can. I don't mean this to sound like business is evil. It isn't. That's what it exists to do, and I do not blame it for that. If one business doesn't take advantage of something, another will, and so they must. It is because of this that I believe the care of the people in our society should not be up to a business. It should never ever be run like a business.

As a society we pool together for the greater good of everyone, and what's more basic a greater good than our health? Nothing. If we can't give our fellow man, and specifically a fellow man who we have already formed a pact with called society, his health, then what good are we? What good is a government that lets its people die on the streets? It's pointless.

Well said.

 

[PhoenixDark]

A new national poll from CBS News shows President Obama down two points to former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney in a direct matchup, 47 – 45. Other Republican candidates compete against Obama as well with Rep. Ron Paul only down a single point at 46 – 45, and former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum with only a four point deficit at 47 – 43.

CBS analysis said it’s all about independent voters in the general election data, as no candidate (President Obama or any GOP one) seems to be able to attract a significant portion of the other sides' party faithful. From CBSnews.com:

If the general election were held today, it would break down along highly partisan lines no matter who gets the Republican nomination. A large percentage of Republicans rally be hind any of the Republican nominees, though Romney does the best among registered Republicans with 90% of their vote. About nine in 10 Democrats pick Barack Obama over any of the Republican candidates. Independents show a preference for both Mitt Romney and Ron Paul over Barack Obama, though independents choose the President over the rest of the field.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/updates/3841

less than a year out and can't get to 50%....time to face reality

 

[Particle Physicist]

Well, some more good news. Reps are less excited to vote for their party than they were in 2008:

What do Democrats look like though?

 

[Oblivion]

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/updates/3841

less than a year out and can't get to 50%....time to face reality

What the fuuuuuuuuu

The Romney thing isn't that surprising but how the fuck do those other clowns get within spitting distance of Obama. :/

 

[Puddles]

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/updates/3841

less than a year out and can't get to 50%....time to face reality

What's Romney's path to 270 though?

 

[ThisWreckage]

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/updates/3841

less than a year out and can't get to 50%....time to face reality

His ace in the hole is announcing Hilary as his VP. That would cement him getting re elected.

 

[The Librarian]

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/updates/3841

less than a year out and can't get to 50%....time to face reality

A lot can change in 11 months. Besides, putting stock in polls this far out isn't going to tell you anything. Besides, despite what this poll says, Obama would crush Paul in the general election.

His ace in the hole is announcing Hilary as his VP. That would cement him getting re elected.

It's not going to happen, and wouldn't help his re-election.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

Huntsman just gave his final rally, from what I can gather on twitter it went really really well.

http://blog.american.com/2012/01/huntsmans-bold-policy-agenda-just-got-even-bolder/

an article about his education reform.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I won't vote for Obama if Hillary replaces Biden. I supported her over Obama for most of 2008 but that type of replacement would reek of desperation and a lack of loyalty. Biden is a good man, and a good VP. It's certainly not his fault Obama has failed.

What's Romney's path to 270 though?

IMO?
http://www.270towin.com/2012_election_predictions.php?mapid=eWI

Close election, Romney wins Ohio to secure 272 EVs. Nevada has a large Mormon population and a popular republican governor, I think it'll go red. Arizona could be a toss up but let's remember the state has been red for decades and not long ago was considered a mecca of right wing extremism.

Obama barely won NC in 2008, I see no reason to assume he wins it again; plus if there's a state where voter restriction nonsense will help the GOP, it's NC. Virginia is a solid red state that went blue in a wave election, but should return the the GOP especially if Bob McConnell is the VP.

That map is perfectly logical given the current situation.

 

[Meadows]

I won't vote for Obama if Hillary replaces Biden. I supported her over Obama for most of 2008 but that type of replacement would reek of desperation and a lack of loyalty. Biden is a good man, and a good VP. It's certainly not his fault Obama has failed.

My argument would be more that Hillary is a good Sec of State than Biden is a good VP. VP isn't as important as Sec of State in real terms (imo).

 

[Synth_floyd]

Romney will have to pick someone conservative, like a Santorum, to shore up the evangelical base.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

Romney will have to pick someone conservative, like a Santorum, to shore up the evangelical base.

I'm just hoping for a Romney upset tomorrow.

 

[The Librarian]

Virginia and North Carolina did not vote for Obama because it was a "wave" election; they went Obama because of demographic changes.

 

[The Librarian]

I know I said I don't put any stock into polls this far out from the general, but if other people insist on using them to freak out, calling it, or whatever:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/president_obama_vs_republican_candidates.html

Romney has only Obama beaten in two of all the polls taken within the last month.

 

[TestOfTide]

Well, some more good news. Reps are less excited to vote for their party than they were in 2008:

But what about conservative independents?

 

[PhoenixDark]

Virginia and North Carolina did not vote for Obama because it was a "wave" election; they went Obama because of demographic changes.

Those demographic changes didn't turn the states blue though, at least in Virginia's case. In NC we saw an explosion in minority/youth voting which I refuse to believe will be a factor in 2012. Virginia is a red state, republicans recently took complete control of the federal government there as well. The 08 victory can indeed be attributed to a wave considering Obama won the right leaning independent vote there, even some republicans. It's hard to see that happening this year.

 

[ezekial45]

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/updates/3841

less than a year out and can't get to 50%....time to face reality

Not worried about this at all. Election is still 11 months away, and with a steadily improving economy, the start of the political campaigns, and the debates; the polls will shift for sure.

 

[The Librarian]

Those demographic changes didn't turn the states blue though, at least in Virginia's case. In NC we saw an explosion in minority/youth voting which I refuse to believe will be a factor in 2012. Virginia is a red state, republicans recently took complete control of the federal government there as well. The 08 victory can indeed be attributed to a wave considering Obama won the right leaning independent vote there, even some republicans. It's hard to see that happening this year.

So an explosion of youth and minority voting isn't a result of demographic change...? Huh? Do you live in NC? If not, I think you're just pulling stuff out of your butt. NC went blue because of demographic changes.

Virginia is no longer a red state. Just because Republicans won control of the state legislature is not indicative of which way the state will vote in November. State elections and federal elections, while sometimes the same, aren't always.

And Virginia went blue because it wasn't a demographic change? What?

The state's Hispanic population almost doubled to 631,825, a 91.7% increase. The number of people who identified themselves as being of two or more races jumped 63.1% to 233,400.

The population of northern Virginia attributed for half the state's growth, and northern Virginia was where Obama did best.

 

[el retorno]

Not worried about this at all. Election is still 11 months away, and with a steadily improving economy, the start of the political campaigns, and the debates; the polls will shift for sure.

This. Obama's not been able to answer any of the rediculous charges brought against him in this primary (backing Iran, socialism, apologising for america, etc). All people have been hearing is the republican echo chamber. And he's still only leading by 2 pts.

That and Romney will have to swing back more to the center and he'll probably flip flop.

 

[RustyNails]

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/updates/3841

less than a year out and can't get to 50%....time to face reality

You can be over 50% and still lose election: HW and Jimmy Carter.

Obama's biggest ace in the hole isn't Hillary replacement. It's Campaign Obama. You won't see him for another couple of months.

 

[PhoenixDark]

So an explosion of youth and minority voting isn't a result of demographic change...? Huh? Do you live in NC? If not, I think you're just pulling stuff out of your butt. NC went blue because of demographic changes.

Virginia is no longer a red state. Just because Republicans won control of the state legislature is not indicative of which way the state will vote in November. State elections and federal elections, while sometimes the same, aren't always.

And Virginia went blue because it wasn't a demographic change? What?


The population of northern Virginia attributed for half the state's growth, and northern Virginia was where Obama did best.

I'd argue it's more of a turnout issue than demographics, at least in NC.

How is Virginia not a red state...?

 

[A27_StarWolf]

what time does the Primary begin?

 

[RustyNails]

How is Virginia not a red state...?

Answer: Northern Virginia.

 

[cooljeanius]

Subscribed. Oh boy, the primary's tomorrow! I'll be voting in the Democratic one for Obama (apparently he isn't actually running unopposed), but I would've switched parties to vote for Huntsman if I had known about the party registration switching deadline in October...

 

[jamesinclair]

I'd argue it's more of a turnout issue than demographics, at least in NC.

How is Virginia not a red state...?

Have you been to Virginia? They stole 40% of DC

And DC is like 99% democrat.

Subscribed. Oh boy, the primary's tomorrow! I'll be voting in the Democratic one for Obama (apparently he isn't actually running unopposed), but I would've switched parties to vote for Huntsman if I had known about the party registration switching deadline in October...

Write in Bernie Sanders

 

[The Librarian]

I'd argue it's more of a turnout issue than demographics, at least in NC.

How is Virginia not a red state...?

How is Virginia a red state?! You're only evidence is low-turnout state elections! I've provided more reasons than YOU on why Virginia will be competitive for a while.

 

[Dan]

My argument would be more that Hillary is a good Sec of State than Biden is a good VP. VP isn't as important as Sec of State in real terms (imo).

I'd agree with that. She's more useful as Secretary of State than she would be as VP.

 

[cooljeanius]

Also, no "wall of shame" from the previous thread? I took a rather large screenshot:
link

 

[Kosmo]

His ace in the hole is announcing Hilary as his VP. That would cement him getting re elected.

...and probably getting shot so Hillary could take over as President. Obama is at least smart enough not to tempt the Clinton cabal with letting her that close to the Oval Office.

 

[el retorno]

...and probably getting shot so Hillary could take over as President. Obama is at least smart enough not to tempt the Clinton cabal with letting her that close to the Oval Office.

How many times have you brought up this stupid clinton's kill stuff?

 

[The Librarian]

...and probably getting shot so Hillary could take over as President. Obama is at least smart enough not to tempt the Clinton cabal with letting her that close to the Oval Office.

1. It's sad that I can't tell if you're being serious on a subject as sensitive as that. It really is.
2. Even if you are joking, it's in really poor taste.

What is wrong with you?

 

[Kosmo]

How many times have you brought up this stupid clinton's kill stuff?

Probably 3.

And I'm not joking. If Hillary was VP, I would fear for Obama.

And certainly crackpot, but this is an 'entertaining' site http://etherzone.com/body.html

 

[A27_StarWolf]

1. It's sad that I can't tell if you're being serious on a subject as sensitive as that. It really is.
2. Even if you are joking, it's in really poor taste.

What is wrong with you?

Its clearly a joke. However on a not joke level, it wouldn't shock me that Hillary wouldn't want some sort of shot at the white house.

Its actually kind of funny.

 

[Oblivion]

 

[rdrr gnr]

Also, no "wall of shame" from the previous thread? I took a rather large screenshot:
link

Everyone over 100 posts.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

Everyone over 100 posts.

I posted more than I thought.

 

[RDreamer]

I don't know that I've ever been on one of those wall of shame type things. Usually don't post all that much in a thread.

 

[PhoenixDark]

edited.

just gonna say I posted on a rather regular forum that got temporarily shut down by the Secret Service/Comcast over similar comments...

 

[Clevinger]

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/updates/3841

less than a year out and can't get to 50%....time to face reality

That poll has Ron Paul only doing 1 point worse than Romney. I'm not going to take it seriously.

 

[Stinkles]

Probably 3.

And I'm not joking. If Hillary was VP, I would fear for Obama.

And certainly crackpot, but this is an 'entertaining' site http://etherzone.com/body.html

Jesus

 

[ReBurn]

...and probably getting shot so Hillary could take over as President. Obama is at least smart enough not to tempt the Clinton cabal with letting her that close to the Oval Office.

The secret service is probably already on the way to your home.

 

[Mortrialus]

Watching Rachel Maddow at the moment. Apparently Ron Paul supporters are claiming the blatantly racist ad attacking Jon Huntsman's daughters is most likely linked to none other than Jon Huntsman himself. Looking around to see if I can find another source making that claim.

http://www.breakingcopy.com/racist-jon-huntsman-ron-paul-ad

Edit: Yep they are.

http://www.breakingcopy.com/racist-jon-huntsman-ron-paul-ad

Then the second phase of media coverage started. The Paul campaign commissioned a consulting firm called CanDo.com to try to find out where it actually came from. CanDo concluded, “it is likely that the video came from a source within or closely tied to the Huntsman campaign.”

http://images.politico.com/global/2012/01/cando_com_analysis.html

http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns...ats-huntsman-video-link-spokesman-109958.html

From the report:

We thoroughly searched the Jon2012.com site using Google for any reference to this link.
None existed. Furthermore, we noted that the comment function of the Jon2012.com site does not allow for hyperlinks, which would be required for YouTube to record the referring domain as Jon2012.com. Since no direct link to the video exists on Jon2012.com, how could YouTube show Jon2012.com as the referring site? Our best guess is that someone used a server on the Jon2012.com domain (such as webmail) to read an email that contained the link to the video. It is also likely that the first mobile views at that same time originated from links in emails. Clicking on a link from a webmail system on Jon2012.com would provide the needed headers for YouTube to record the link.

Furthermore, investigating the account NHLiberty4Paul on YouTube and Twitter, we found that both were created the same day that the video was released. There is no reference to this handle in any public site, prior to the creation of this account, that we could find.

 

[ThisWreckage]

Romney will have to pick someone conservative, like a Santorum, to shore up the evangelical base.

This is a double edged sword. I think that Romney needs to stray away from picking a conservative. In fact, such a thing might even cause him to lose some states up north. I think he'd do fine if he picked someone like Christie.

 

[RustyNails]

This is a double edged sword. I think that Romney needs to stray away from picking a conservative. In fact, such a thing might even cause him to lose some states up north. I think he'd do fine if he picked someone like Christie.

Christie = Fat Romney.

You pick a VP where your perceived disadvantage is.

 

[ThisWreckage]

Christie = Fat Romney.

You pick a VP where your perceived disadvantage is.

If he picks someone like Santorum he is finished. He'll lose a lot of his support up north. And yes, it would probably give him a better shot in places like NC, but I think he can win those places even if he picks someone that has ties up north like Christie.

 

[Suikoguy]

Yay! I made the list

 

[RDreamer]

I would think that picking a polarizing guy like Santorum would really energize some of the young and disillusioned into coming out and voting against a Romney/Santorum ticket. I think there are plenty of young people that voted last time and may not have that much faith in the system, and they might skip out, but with Santorum I really can't see them sitting on their hands and letting a guy like that get in.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

You know what I'd love? A left of center news site that isn't a bloated piece of shit like TPM and HuffPo. Both sites make me wanna puke, design wise.

 

[ThisWreckage]

I would think that picking a polarizing guy like Santorum would really energize some of the young and disillusioned into coming out and voting against a Romney/Santorum ticket. I think there are plenty of young people that voted last time and may not have that much faith in the system, and they might skip out, but with Santorum I really can't see them sitting on their hands and letting a guy like that get in.

That's why I think he'll pick Christie. It's a safe pick.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

That's why I think he'll pick Christie. It's a safe pick.

And a hell of an attack dog.