PhoenixDark
Banned
I'm not sure that's true. Christie has some corruption skeletons in his closet
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US PoliGAF 2012 | The Romney VeepStakes: Waiting for Chris Christie to Sing
- Thread starter Invisible_Insane
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I'm not sure that's true. Christie has some corruption skeletons in his closet
What I find fascinating is that it's the other Republicans that are just going after Romney over this stuff, especially stuff like the "I like being able to fire people" thing. That means when it comes back around from Democrats in the general election the Republican base can't cry foul and say it's silly at all. They're attacking Romney first. It's especially funny because I know if that phrase being taken out of context now was pulled up by democrats you'd hear a lot of whining about, well, how it's being taken out of context. But now Rick Perry is putting it out as a ringtone and Huntsman is hitting him on it, etc.
Welcome your new president guyz
ReBurn
Gold Member
Things like that don't hurt politicians these days, though. And I don't really understand why.
speculawyer
Member
Wall of shame indeed. My gaming has dropped to near zero so I guess I've wasted time on Poligaf. Those GOP debates have been great reality TV.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Stuff like that is so common in primaries, though. I remember how Obama and Hillary were tearing each other apart in the primaries, then became best friends after the nomination, then complained about republicans saying the same stuff during the campaign. The mudslinging rules are crazy.
Funny, I haven't gleaned an ounce of reality from any GOP debate thus far.
I suppose. I've followed this a lot more than I followed other primaries in the past, so I guess I just never noticed it.
Was there some silly sound clip thing like this used against Obama by Hillary? If so what was it, I'm curious?
speculawyer
Member
Nor will you get any reality from any other "reality TV" show. But you do get cheap laughs.
Invisible_Insane
Member
I am an incorrigible apologizer for America.
As for the wall of shame, another disappointing finish. I blame not being able to post during most of the debates. I would blame the ban I caught during the bloodbath, but eznark has managed to "win" a thread despite that--what the hell happened to that guy?
He's spending quality time with his B.J. Raji real doll.
There's a lot to love.
Dr. Pangloss
Member
Dax I know you are from NC, but that state is still red and hasn't change as much as Virginia has. In fact, they have their own little Koch-lite provider in Art Pope: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/10/10/111010fa_fact_mayer. I know the migration to the triangle has really shifted the playing field, but NC is still red. No way Obama picks it up this year, especially with Art Pope running a SuperPAC there.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Migration from North is not just into triangle area but Charlotte area too (I live in Charlotte). I think Obama has a decent chance in NC, you get a good demo of college population + African Americans + Hispanic population increase + North migrants.
All PPP Polling till now has Obama-Romney in a dead heat in NC. It is definitely a state Obama campaign is targetting for 2012.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Obama barely winning a state doesn't make it blue. NC is red and should go to Romney
ThisWreckage
Banned
I live in NC and it's not going to happen. You know all of those conservatives that sat out last election and were infuriated that Obama ended up winning? Yeah, they're voting this time around.
I would categorize NC and VA as being less and less reliably red states than them being either a blue state or a red state. Hell, The fact that we're even having this conversation should tell you that VA and NC will only get less and less red in the future.
Also, Romney being only two points ahead of Obama seems rather weak, especially when you consider that Obama barely campaigned and Romney and the GOP been on blast against Obama with little push back, and UE over 8%.
Also, Romney being only two points ahead of Obama seems rather weak, especially when you consider that Obama barely campaigned and Romney and the GOP been on blast against Obama with little push back, and UE over 8%.
ThisWreckage
Banned
I have no idea why so many northerners are moving down here. NC has one of the worst economies in the country and I wouldn't wish Charlotte or especially the triangle area on anyone.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Christie is more liberal than Romney
ThisWreckage
Banned
And I think that works in Romney's favor.
Skiptastic
Member
I feel pretty bad that I didn't even make the low end of the list, from what I saw. Just not feeling politics these days, I guess.
We had this debate in the previous thread. Again, the evidence to attribute Obama's victory in NC and VA to demographics is insufficient. In every presidential election since 1980, both had been solidly Republican. Then, they flipped during an especially toxic cycle for Republicans. Subsequently, Republicans have performed well in state and Congressional elections. Now, as you noted in a later post, off-year and midterm elections are not necessarily indicative of how a state votes in presidential elections. Nevertheless, the previous success of the GOP in presidential elections and the subsequent success of the GOP in state and Congressional elections dampens the premise of a more permanent shift towards Democrats. And until more evidence corroborates the demographic premise, I think the swings can be primarily attributed to the favorable fundamentals of 2008.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
a Catholic and a Mormon on top of the GOP ticket
a vp that believe global warming is man made,
believe gays are born gay and are not "sinners"
not tapping our oil reserves
funding many "green" projects and oppose to of shore drilling(at least on the east cost)
...
i dunno, he might have to pull a Romney on some issues.
Huh, seems I just barely cracked the top 10. How the hell did I lose out to people like Kosmo, though. Wtf?
Guess that month long ban hit me harder than I thought.
edit: AZ_Starwolf's no. 11??? The dude just started posting in poligaf like 2 weeks ago!
Guess that month long ban hit me harder than I thought.
edit: AZ_Starwolf's no. 11??? The dude just started posting in poligaf like 2 weeks ago!
Aaron Strife
Banned
Obama's going to win VA and NC by bigger margins than 2008.
The Librarian
Banned
Mkay. Don't put words into my mouth. That wasn't what I was saying; I was arguing that North Carolina and Virginia are not red states anymore as we have previously known them. You come in here touting the recent local and congressional elections by a whiter, older, and more conservative electorate, the precise electorate that doesn't represent the shifting demographics! Just because Maine is going to re-elect Olympia Snowe doesn't mean its voting red come fall. Just because NH has an all-Republican legislature or Congressional district doesn't mean it's going to vote red this fall, nor does it mean it is a "red" state. In both states, the minority vote is small but growing, and thanks to the energy of 2008, it was enough to push both states blue. Even if one or both states vote red in the fall, it doesn't mean that they're both red states again.
Virginia and North Carolina are competitive now in the same way Texas will be in 10-20 years. As time goes on, both states will become more and more purple.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Sometimes I do it more as a joke (like that last post, or "this is the worst day of my life" during the 2010 results), but I feel pretty confident in saying Obama will win re-election, and VA/NC will probably play a major role in that. Obama's poll numbers have held up well in Virginia - he lead Romney 48-42 there last time PPP polled it. North Carolina is more of a toss-up, but I'd have to guess whoever wins it will do so by a razor-thin margin, just like last time.
(Incidentally, PPP is releasing a poll of that tomorrow - apparently Santorum is running a point better against Obama than Romney is. Take that how you will, I guess.)
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
Obama will win PA and Ohio again, as well.
Would someone other than Romney pleeeaaasseeee win NH. fml!
It's not over till its over! Someone could come out from behind and knock the wind out of Romney!
BELIEVE!
As far as polling goes, I'd agree it's very early... it's just that when you look at all the candidates, Obama doesn't have much to worry about up against anyone but Romney by default. This is why it sucks so bad that the voters seem to be sticking with Romney, even if reluctantly. Democrats did the same with Kerry, but frankly he's not as admired among moderates like Romney is. That is an advantage Kerry did not have. Republicans will vote for Romney reluctantly, just like Democrats did for Kerry; the difference is moderates will be much more enthused about voting for Romney than they were for John Kerry, no doubt. I am not saying they'd necessarily be jumping for joy to vote for him, but they would at least have a better feeling about it. This is what can push him over the top.
As for the rest of the candidates, you can assume any single one of them, if they won, would up the ante on their rhetoric against the Pres. Thus, Obama's lead would fall drastically at some point. I kind of look at where Obama is ahead of everyone else as not an indication of what the election outcome will really look like, rather a lead that should be thought of as a starting point that will surely shrink as the GOP lie and distortion machine comes out in full force this year. This is what's important. When you look at an Obama vs. Romney poll today and say "whew, Obama is ahead by two", that's not really anything to feel good about this early on. I expect Romney to gain, not lose momentum as he continues to campaign, assuming he does win the nom. He's basically tied with Obama as is in most polls, something the rest of the candidates simply cannot do at this stage in the game. Obama needs that head start, but Romney getting the nom takes that away. Completely.
The President is below 50% approval during a time where most Presidents need to be above 50% to get re-elected. Unless Obama can pull a Reagan and succeed in assuring the electorate that the economic recovery, while stalled, is still moving the country forward... Romney's going to win. As far as I'm concerned he has nowhere to go but up from here, which means Obama has to be really tactful with when to play defense and when to play offense. He can't skip a beat while campaigning and how he reacts to events that will define how he makes decisions not only as a campaigner, but as President. His time in the White House has been far more reserved and low-key than his campaign was in 2008, so it will be hard for him to revert back to the magic that got him elected without voters scratching their heads a little. Not to mention, Obama is not so young and charismatic looking these days. That's what four years of incessant gridlock and hatred gets you.
Romney will be a formidable candidate in the GE. This is a nightmare scenario for Obama. It's pretty insane; Romney getting the nom always seemed to be something no one could say for sure because of his record and how the national GOP digested it. Most of us doubted his potential. We had a field of batshit insane candidates who were pros at pandering to the base... none of whom are actually getting the nom, it appears, despite having a voter base that is more in line with them than Romney. And yet... because of a tie in Iowa and a huge lead in New Hampshire, Romney will have the momentum to have his nomination in the bag.
If Romney gets the nomination, I'd be very worried. Demographics in states like VA and NC changed, this is indisputable -- the question is if all of those people will come back to vote for Obama once more, this time against a bitter GOP electorate that will be foaming at the mouth to give the President the boot. Republicans hate Romney but he's not Obama. Just like Kerry wasn't Bush.
It's not over till its over! Someone could come out from behind and knock the wind out of Romney!
BELIEVE!
As far as polling goes, I'd agree it's very early... it's just that when you look at all the candidates, Obama doesn't have much to worry about up against anyone but Romney by default. This is why it sucks so bad that the voters seem to be sticking with Romney, even if reluctantly. Democrats did the same with Kerry, but frankly he's not as admired among moderates like Romney is. That is an advantage Kerry did not have. Republicans will vote for Romney reluctantly, just like Democrats did for Kerry; the difference is moderates will be much more enthused about voting for Romney than they were for John Kerry, no doubt. I am not saying they'd necessarily be jumping for joy to vote for him, but they would at least have a better feeling about it. This is what can push him over the top.
As for the rest of the candidates, you can assume any single one of them, if they won, would up the ante on their rhetoric against the Pres. Thus, Obama's lead would fall drastically at some point. I kind of look at where Obama is ahead of everyone else as not an indication of what the election outcome will really look like, rather a lead that should be thought of as a starting point that will surely shrink as the GOP lie and distortion machine comes out in full force this year. This is what's important. When you look at an Obama vs. Romney poll today and say "whew, Obama is ahead by two", that's not really anything to feel good about this early on. I expect Romney to gain, not lose momentum as he continues to campaign, assuming he does win the nom. He's basically tied with Obama as is in most polls, something the rest of the candidates simply cannot do at this stage in the game. Obama needs that head start, but Romney getting the nom takes that away. Completely.
The President is below 50% approval during a time where most Presidents need to be above 50% to get re-elected. Unless Obama can pull a Reagan and succeed in assuring the electorate that the economic recovery, while stalled, is still moving the country forward... Romney's going to win. As far as I'm concerned he has nowhere to go but up from here, which means Obama has to be really tactful with when to play defense and when to play offense. He can't skip a beat while campaigning and how he reacts to events that will define how he makes decisions not only as a campaigner, but as President. His time in the White House has been far more reserved and low-key than his campaign was in 2008, so it will be hard for him to revert back to the magic that got him elected without voters scratching their heads a little. Not to mention, Obama is not so young and charismatic looking these days. That's what four years of incessant gridlock and hatred gets you.
Romney will be a formidable candidate in the GE. This is a nightmare scenario for Obama. It's pretty insane; Romney getting the nom always seemed to be something no one could say for sure because of his record and how the national GOP digested it. Most of us doubted his potential. We had a field of batshit insane candidates who were pros at pandering to the base... none of whom are actually getting the nom, it appears, despite having a voter base that is more in line with them than Romney. And yet... because of a tie in Iowa and a huge lead in New Hampshire, Romney will have the momentum to have his nomination in the bag.
If Romney gets the nomination, I'd be very worried. Demographics in states like VA and NC changed, this is indisputable -- the question is if all of those people will come back to vote for Obama once more, this time against a bitter GOP electorate that will be foaming at the mouth to give the President the boot. Republicans hate Romney but he's not Obama. Just like Kerry wasn't Bush.
Not sure I agree with that.
Right now, the GOP candidates have been unloading at Obama like a goddamn shooting range, and he hasn't fired a single shot back at them. Yet you think that current poll numbers represent the apex of Obama's potential?
I think Republican numbers will sink drastically once they have to debate against Obama with him in the same room, and once he gets to run some campaign ads and make some speeches of his own.
Right now, the GOP candidates have been unloading at Obama like a goddamn shooting range, and he hasn't fired a single shot back at them. Yet you think that current poll numbers represent the apex of Obama's potential?
I think Republican numbers will sink drastically once they have to debate against Obama with him in the same room, and once he gets to run some campaign ads and make some speeches of his own.
Romney was basically invisible all of last year. Meanwhile, all of his Republican opponents were busy blowing themselves up, so he got very little flak during that time.
It looks like he's starting to get heat now, especially with that Bain Capital stuff. He's also making a bunch of gaffes, and showing he's not much of a speaker either. Still early stuff, but from here on out I expect him to steadily go downhill as a candidate as more of his weaknesses get exposed. IMO he'll demonstrate that he's only slightly to maybe moderately more electable than the early flameouts. Still looking at a pretty sizable win for Obama if Romney is the nominee.
It looks like he's starting to get heat now, especially with that Bain Capital stuff. He's also making a bunch of gaffes, and showing he's not much of a speaker either. Still early stuff, but from here on out I expect him to steadily go downhill as a candidate as more of his weaknesses get exposed. IMO he'll demonstrate that he's only slightly to maybe moderately more electable than the early flameouts. Still looking at a pretty sizable win for Obama if Romney is the nominee.
ReBurn
Gold Member
If unemployment stays high I think that it is going to be much tougher for Obama than a lot of people want to admit. You can tell that's the biggest concern he has since Axelrod has been out there pre-emptively campaigning that republicans screwed up the economy on purpose to hurt Obama's reelection chances. The same claims of "it's not my fault" that we've heard from Obama for the last 3 years are already framing his reelection bid. The question in my mind is whether people are going to buy it.
QuickSilverD
Member
When do we get New Hamshire results and is there any site where we can see them as they are reported?
I wonder why people think Romney is such a viable candidate. The guy is known as a massive flip flopper on every issue under the sun. Heck, even Republicans are calling him on it. As for his business sense, his company took over smaller businesses, destroyed them, and took the profits for themselves. Again, even Republicans are calling him on his narrative as a "business man".
If Romney had the charisma of a Reagan or Bill Clinton, I could see all this talk of Romney being competitive. However, the guy doesn't have that level of charisma, and he's as phoney as they come.
If Romney had the charisma of a Reagan or Bill Clinton, I could see all this talk of Romney being competitive. However, the guy doesn't have that level of charisma, and he's as phoney as they come.
1) As much as hardcore Conservatives might not think Romney is the strongest conservative, they prefer him to Obama.
2) Romney is appealing to independents, especially many of those who voted for Obama simply because he has executive experience and is much more credible on economic issues.
You should learn about making capital more efficient. If he destroyed companies, there would be no profit, they would simply be out of business. Bain invested capital in businesses and bet on making them more profitable. If jobs were lost, then you have to look at it the same way as the Obama administration investing in Solyndra - was Obama responsible for those job losses? Chris Wallace (a registered Democrat, BTW) hammered Debbie Wasserman-Schultz on this when she tried to make the claim Romney was responsible for making the companies Bain bought more efficient, even if that meant closing plants.
I am stunned at the attacks on Romney being made by the other GOP nominees. Not only are they crippling his chances for the general election, they are undermining core principles of the republican party. What is going on?
I can sort of make sense of Newt Gingrich is doing this, since he has self-destructed before, but I don't understand why his supporters aren't abandoning him en masse.
What a mess.
I can sort of make sense of Newt Gingrich is doing this, since he has self-destructed before, but I don't understand why his supporters aren't abandoning him en masse.
What a mess.
Frank the Great
Banned
if our political discourse was more sophisticated, the whole bain capital situation would be used by the left to explicitly discredit the nonsense idea that the financial success of already-rich folk automatically equates to more jobs for the workers.
i don't like making personal attacks on romney for doing his job. the situation should reflect poorly on right wing ideology, not his character. but i'm pretty sure in the general the democrats will go the personal attack route because it is easier.
i don't like making personal attacks on romney for doing his job. the situation should reflect poorly on right wing ideology, not his character. but i'm pretty sure in the general the democrats will go the personal attack route because it is easier.
1.That's a great way to lose an election.
2.I seriously doubt that will be the case come election time. Again, the man flips on issues seemingly every other day. You're telling me that independents want someone like that for office? I simply don't agree.
Except when Bain invested capital, they also had control over managers and middlemen, and had a say in the day-to-day operations of the company. When the government invested in Solyndra, the company still had control over its day-to-day operations, and the government didn't make a profit when Solyndra went belly up, unlike Bain capital.
Interesting. I (and others) don't really think the other candidates are going hard at him at all. They all seem to be posturing a bit for some kind of VP pick (except Newt I guess).
They won't cripple him for the general election, btw. Voters have terrible long-term memories. This primary business is like the sideshow outside the stadium. The real show begins when we're down to a single GOP candidate.
Yeah but he looks presidential and sometimes that's all you need to get your foot in the door. That and tens of millions of dollars.
Bain would charge millions of dollars in fees to companies they bought before selling them. Some people act like they're just flipping houses but there's a hell of a lot more to it. Capital investment firms have ways to make money while plunging a company into debt.
The Boston Globe has an article that shows how Bain made $100 million while destroying a company. Unfortunately the original article is in the Boston Globe archives (here for free after registration). This website has more of it with an explanation of the chart from the Globe: http://www.massresistance.org/romney/ampad_062607/index.html
BotoxAgent
Member
I thought it was just Gingrinch doing the bulk of it, he doesn't give a fuck. Everyone else seems to just give Romney a free pass, lol.
Yeah, but the president is already presidential, and he has billions of dollars.
LegendofJoe
Member
Art Pope...as a North Carolinian born and bred I detest this guy with a loathing passion reserved for only the worst dictators. If I had the money and influence he had I would fight him on every front he is currently engaged in. His ideology, and that of many other wealthy donors to the GOP, if fully implemented, will eventually tear the foundation of our economy and society apart.
People and businesses are not islands apart, succeeding or not based on their own effort and talents. I simply do not understand how a rational, intelligent person can believe that human success can solely be attributed to individual merit. It's ignorant of reality; and in my opinion it's a puerile, animalistic kill or be killed philosophy. Humanity has not achieved what it has achieved solely from individual ambition. Some people just aren't wired to achieve success that way. They genuinely look to ideas and goals that create better welfare for the whole group before they look at goals that increase their own welfare. People like Art Pope are simply incapable of understanding this and that makes them very dangerous.
BotoxAgent
Member
wasn't this Richard Gere's occupation in Pretty Woman? LOL. He should have Christie as VP, he can fill in the role of Jason Alexander.
He's definitely the definition of phoney. Worse than Kerry. Kerry flopped on basically one issue--Iraq. Romney flip flops as naturally as breathing.
But people are idiots, superficial, and have a short attention span, so anything is possible.
Also, Romney is going to have to stay hard right to appeal to those voters. As he goes hard right, he's going to lose independent voters in the process.
When it comes to a head-to-head with Obama, you have Obama who is charismatic and connects with the audience, and you have Romney who is kind of weird, and has trouble connecting with the audience.
Let's be honest; The only reason Obama is going to have trouble in this election is because he's a black guy. If Obama had been white with his record, he'd be skating to re-election against this joke of a GOP field.
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