Mysterio and Kraven are getting a planned Sony spin-off as well.
Mysterio not getting to be in the new Spidey movies would be a fucking tragedy.
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Venom, Black Cat & other highly anticipated Spidey spinoffs NOT set in MCU
- Thread starter George Oscar Bluth II
- Start date
Mysterio and Kraven are getting a planned Sony spin-off as well.
Mysterio not getting to be in the new Spidey movies would be a fucking tragedy.
i still believe in an mcu black cat
nothing is confirmed for Mysterio & Kraven yet!
there's still hope
Eh, surprisingly little of the MCU action happens in NYC. After the first Avengers they've spent very little time there.
Or Sony keeps Spiderman because having two live action Spidermans will dilute the brand when they know audiences will only watch the MCU one if they can pick one of two instead of only having one option.
I don't see how Sony agrees unless they get the distribution rights to the MCU Spiderman movies (the current agreement they have). Marvel Studios will not want to be producing Spiderman movies for peanuts forever, when that takes away time they could be spending on movies that they have 100% distribution rights to.
They need a new agreement to do what you want. If they stick to the current deal, they already get a jumpstart to their universe with the help of the MCU.
an old picture, but Marvel would love for Spider-Man to be in good movies with Avengers than shitty Sony movies - it pays dividends
That doesn't have anything to do with what I said. Of course Marvel wants Spider-Man. The image also proves that merchandise sales do well even without being in the MCU.
Jest Chillin
Member
"They know audiences will only watch the MCU one if they can pick one of two..." That has no basis in reality. Sony's Spiderman movies have put butts in seats just by existing. And Peter is FAR more well known than Miles is. It's not at all a given that the average movie goer will just pick the MCU version over the Sony version. In all likelihood, they watch both.
Whether or not they need a new deal depends entirely on the specifics of the current deal. We don't know what may or may not come into effect down the line after what's been announced thus far is fulfilled.
The reason Sony signed a deal with Marvel was because their Spiderman was putting fewer and fewer people in seats just by existing. Unless Sony makes money on both Spidermans, there is no new benefit versus what they get with the current deal.
Of course they would need a new deal. It is very obvious that Marvel cannot use Spiderman after the deal ends, without a new deal. They made a very big deal about signing the extension earlier this year.
Jest Chillin
Member
What? No. Sony was open to Marvel not because Spiderman wasn't putting buts in seats (ASM 2 cracked 709 Million Worldwide which isn't shabby by any means) but because it wasn't getting the RoI or positive critical response that the previous trilogy enjoyed for the most part. Raimi's Spiderman 2 was previously the lowest grossing while general being considered the best critically. I know people like to talk in extremes for effect but Spiderman was not in dire straights at Sony. However Sony didn't want to let things get to that point either.
As for "no new benefit" of course there's benefit. Sony gets Peter. MCU has Miles Spidey as apart of their group movie initiative going forward. Each studio gets what they want and Sony gets boost in recognition of Miles for their other projects.
I think you're assuming a whole lot about deal specifics that, well, haven't been specific. Details like who is in the suit and long term plans once the deal as it has been publicized ends are not things either studio would want to readily talk about as they reveal too much. This whole thread happens because Pascal basically revealed that Sony plans on pulling Tom Holland's Spiderman into their Spidey Villain Universe. She just didn't see the implication that suggests of the Sony films connecting to the MCU, probably because they have an In-Universe reason already plotted out as to why it happens and why the two studio universes don't connect.
ASM 2 had a lower domestic and foreign box office than any Spiderman movie, even the Spiderman films from 10-15 years ago that were made before the international box office expanded box office receipts for blockbuster movies, and the fact that 15 years of ticket inflation should mean you make a lot more money with fewer people in the seats. It is factually true that ASM2 had fewer people in the seats watching the movie than in the past. You are factually incorrect to claim that Raimi's Spiderman 2 was previously the lowest grossing. The previous lowest grossing was ASM1. The movies were on a downward trend while the box office has been expanding.
Sony already gets Peter under the current deal. There would be a new deal required to add your suggestion. The specifics regarding the existing deal have explained enough of the deal. These are public companies and they cannot mislead shareholders by keeping such specifics unknown.
Blackpanther25
Member
I'm confused how are we certain that miles will be in future marvel movies? Did I miss something? Don't play with my emotions.
Miles "exists" in the MCU according to Feige. It's natural that they'd go down that path eventually. It's also incredibly unlikely that we will see that anywhere resembling the near future. They'll want to milk Tom Holland for all he's worth until he's in his mid-30's and ready to quit.
In live action anyway. Is the animated movie supposed to be in the MCU?
SpideySenses
Member
He wants a Black Cat movie and your suggestion is to want their film division to fail so that it can go to people who won't even make a Black Widow movie. OK.
You know, I'm actually fairly optimistic about Sony's Spider-man plans, all things considered. Sure, I'd prefer Sony to continue working with Marvel and take their time to build off Homecoming but the movies their planning are all pretty cool in there own ways.
Tom Hardy playing Venom is perfect casting in my eyes, and the potential R rating could make for pretty awesome movie. The Black Cat and Silver Sable movie feels a bit forced but it'd great to see a big budget comic book movie with two female leads and directed by a black female director, especially after the success of Patty and her Wonder Woman movie. And then there's Tim and Miller animated Spider-man movie which is just a brilliant idea.
If nothing works out, we always have the Marvel partnership to fall back on, which is already shaping up to be fantastic given the early reviews for Homecoming.
Tom Hardy playing Venom is perfect casting in my eyes, and the potential R rating could make for pretty awesome movie. The Black Cat and Silver Sable movie feels a bit forced but it'd great to see a big budget comic book movie with two female leads and directed by a black female director, especially after the success of Patty and her Wonder Woman movie. And then there's Tim and Miller animated Spider-man movie which is just a brilliant idea.
If nothing works out, we always have the Marvel partnership to fall back on, which is already shaping up to be fantastic given the early reviews for Homecoming.
Glass Rebel
Member
I'm not even sure why we're even taking this serious. Sony's been trying to make a Venom movie for a decade. This is like their third attempt. Add to that the Sinister Six spin-off. Just because they have announced a director, the lead and a date, doesn't actually mean it'll happen. It didn't work for Gambit either. This is supposed to come out in October 2018 so they'd have to start shooting around December, maybe January at the latest. I guess we'll see but I remain unconvinced, especially with Arad, Tolmach and Rothman involved.
The idea of Spidey spin-offs is idiotic anyway, at least the way Sony seems to imagine them. A lot of these characters are defined by their relationship to Spidey. Hell, a portion of Venom's powerset is entirely because of his connection to Spidey. Remove Spidey out of the equation and you're basically just using iconography. Which isn't something new to Sony if you've seen Amazing Spider-Man 1 + 2.
The idea of Spidey spin-offs is idiotic anyway, at least the way Sony seems to imagine them. A lot of these characters are defined by their relationship to Spidey. Hell, a portion of Venom's powerset is entirely because of his connection to Spidey. Remove Spidey out of the equation and you're basically just using iconography. Which isn't something new to Sony if you've seen Amazing Spider-Man 1 + 2.
Jest Chillin
Member
Context in what I wrote and the way I wrote it, matters. I specifically mentioned that Spiderman wasn't getting the same Return on Investment that the previous Trilogy was. You're over here arguing about plain Gross when the problem wasn't Gross. Newsflash: 757 Million on a 230 Million Budget is still HUGE. 708 Million on a 250 Million budget is still HUGE. The problem was the ASM movies were getting critically panned while also costing more than Raimi's trilogy and bringing in slightly less money. I said Spiderman 2 was the previous lowest grossing film in the Raimi Trilogy WHILE being the highest critically rated (aka the reason why Raimi's trilogy wasn't shitcanned the way Webb's was). So stop trying to be a know-it-all ass in your replies and pay attention.
Also, what I've pointed out multiple times that you seem to refuse to believe is that we don't know what is in the actual contract between Sony and Marvel Studios. The contract has not been released to the public and there are always aspects of contracts that nobody wants to be released. So unless you actually work at Marvel Studios or Sony and you're privy to the actual contract, stop acting as if you know the full breadth of what it covers.
What I've suggested is that there could be an here-to-fore unspoken backend of the current deal where Sony ends up with Peter and Marvel Studios get to use Miles. Because as it is now, Marvel doesn't have to pay to use Spiderman but they also don't see any profit from him directly (they can only profit off ensemble films he's in). Meanwhile they're doing all the creative heavy lifting. Does it make more sense that Marvel is doing this just to have Spidey show up profitably in a couple films or that there's more to the deal that Marvel and Sony haven't spoken of? There has been no contract extension, btw. That was Pascal blowing smoke because she's previously said that after the second Spiderman solo film, "plans are up in the air" meanwhile Holland admitted a long time ago that he's contracted for 6 films, 3 ensemble, 3 solo. So again, listening to Feige or Pascal and blindly accepting that they're telling us ALL the details of the contracts is silly. That isn't how it works. So while my theory may be wrong, it's not at all due to the reasons you're bandying about.
ArkkAngel007
Member
It's quite a reach suggesting that Marvel Studios is good to use Spiderman if it's Miles and not Parker.
Peter Parker isn't the money maker. Likely none of these investors and power players give a shit about Miles or Peter.
It's Spiderman, and right now Spiderman remains a Sony property. This isn't a no nothing character like Quick Silver that these studios can allow independent use with caveats. Spiderman is too big to allow for that, and takes ventures like we see with Homecoming to get any sort of cooperation.
If Miles becomes a MCU character, no chance the name Spiderman will be used. The suit and villain roster also barred from use. There's a bigger chance of Marvel Studios getting the sole rights to Spiderman, and that's not happening anytime soon.
Peter Parker isn't the money maker. Likely none of these investors and power players give a shit about Miles or Peter.
It's Spiderman, and right now Spiderman remains a Sony property. This isn't a no nothing character like Quick Silver that these studios can allow independent use with caveats. Spiderman is too big to allow for that, and takes ventures like we see with Homecoming to get any sort of cooperation.
If Miles becomes a MCU character, no chance the name Spiderman will be used. The suit and villain roster also barred from use. There's a bigger chance of Marvel Studios getting the sole rights to Spiderman, and that's not happening anytime soon.