Support NeoGAF

[Extra Sauce]

Sounds like the woman was doomed regardless of the man's reaction, if she died within a few minutes.

Still a fucked up thing to not call 911 immediately or go assist her.

 

[Meier]

I can understand being reluctant to go into the bathroom but calling 9-1-1 5 minutes later is inexcusable and he should be held liable.

 

[Aesius]

Hey nitwits, how the fuck is the front desk guy supposed to save this woman's life? He's not a doctor.

 

[Enco]

Sounds like the woman was doomed regardless of the man's reaction, if she died within a few minutes.

.

GAF is going crazy over very little. Like Aesius said, the guy wasn't a doctor. Sure he probably knew some emergency first aid but who knows if that would have helped. That being said, he should have tried.

I can understand being reluctant to go into the bathroom but calling 9-1-1 5 minutes later is inexcusable and he should be held liable.

Was it 5 minutes from her collapsing or 5 minutes from him learning about it?

If it factors in the time it took the women to walk to the desk then it's not too bad.

 

[OnPoint]

No he shouldn't.

Alright, maybe not. But still, how can someone stand by while that's happening? Waiting 5 minutes to call for help? I just think keeping a job at Planet Fitness by not going into the locker room isn't worth risking someone's life. I'd have done everything I could to help, even at the risk of my job.

 

[Plywood]

Sounds like the woman was doomed regardless of the man's reaction, if she died within a few minutes.

Still a fucked up thing to not call 911 immediately or go assist her.

The article does throw the guy under a bus, but it does not mention him having any CPR training and so him going to the locker room may not have amounted to much. I do agree he should have called 911 sooner.

 

[Valnen]

Oh wow you seem to know a lot about this guy's financial situation, and his employer's mindset. You must know them really well.

Also he waited 5 minutes to call an ambulance. How can you defend that? Or would he get fired for using the phone in your mind?

Can't defend waiting to call 911, but I can understand why he'd be reluctant to get fired.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Planet Fitness. haha.


I guess the corporation will reap what it sows.

 

[Cyan]

Sounds like the woman was doomed regardless of the man's reaction, if she died within a few minutes.

Probably, but he couldn't have known that at the time. It's fine to look backwards and say, "well, his inaction didn't necessarily cause her death," but as a general thing, his inaction absolutely could have caused her death.

 

[Meier]

.
Was it 5 minutes from her collapsing or 5 minutes from him learning about it?

If it factors in the time it took the women to walk to the desk then it's not too bad.

Presumably they ran to the desk immediately after the collapse. At most that's 1 minute, so you'd think at a minimum he waited 4 minutes to finally call it in. The fact they've mentioned he is calmly shown using the computer makes it evident that the delay was almost certainly due to him.

 

[Rockandrollclown]

Alright, maybe not. But still, how can someone stand by while that's happening? Waiting 5 minutes to call for help? I just think keeping a job at Planet Fitness by not going into the locker room isn't worth risking someone's life. I'd have done everything I could to help, even at the risk of my job.

Its hard to hold people accountable for how they react in a crisis. Not everyone handles that shit well, its not really their fault. Here we have 3 people presumably all capable of calling 911 yet we only focus in on the guy. Its not a malicious thing, some people just shut down.

 

[Willectro]

It's crazy that he didn't attempt to help, but given that "No cause of death has been announced", it is impossible to speculate whether his actions could have prevented this unfortunate death. At the very least, why did he not call 911 instantly and then go to see if he could help?

 

[Devolution]

I just feel like, if company policy feels so strictly enforced that you are afraid to help someone in need, some things need to be re-examined.

 

[siddx]

Hey nitwits, how the fuck is the front desk guy supposed to save this woman's life? He's not a doctor.

Name calling isn't a good way to start a conversation. But I'll answer anyway. No, he isn't a doctor. However in a moment of crisis, people look for the nearest figure of authority, which in this case is the guy running the gym at that moment. He should be rational enough to take immediate action by calling 911. It's also reasonable for those girls to assume he might know basic first aid since a gym is a place where the chance of being hurt is rather higher than normal.

 

[Derwind]

This article is so weird, I'm a dude and I've ventured forth on my own into the girls change room and washroom before(albiet after hours), I wouldn't hesitate to rush in if I heard screams of suffering which is a very distinct and chilling sound.

Oh and...

Hey nitwits, how the fuck is the front desk guy supposed to save this woman's life? He's not a doctor.

Call 9/11 and you should at least know basic CPR, it literally is a 2 day/8 hr course(At least where I live). And the course trains you on the use of an AED and proper First Aid procedures.

But 9/11 is something anyone can do.

 

[kick51]

That guy's an idiot! If someone is in trouble, they won't care if you enter the ladies room.

The guy is a total dickhead, but you'd be surprised how much could go wrong if you try to intervene in these situations. He could go in there, but he shouldn't touch her at all if he doesn't have training. He should've gone in to verify the situation and called 911 immediately if he didn't know what to do.

 

[Cyan]

I just feel like, if company policy feels so strictly enforced that you are afraid to help someone in need, some things need to be re-examined.

Exactly. To put it in the same framing some others have used, the company could be sued if their policy leads to someone's death, so if they want to avoid lawsuits, they should probably change their policy.

 

[Kinitari]

I think he should have definitely gone into the change room, but I am a little bit curious about the timing of everything that happened.

It says he called 911 nearly 5 minutes after she collapsed, but how long was it between the woman collapsing and him finding out? 1-2 minutes? Then it's closer to 2 minutes after he found out (still too long, but I can see someone spending 2 minutes trying to figure out what to do) - was there a female employee about to come in, like in... a minute? It mentions that a female employee with CPR training checked up on the woman around the same time he made the phone call - so it sounds like in his time of confusion he was weighing the information available to him. Does he have CPR training? If he has no training of the sort, and no experience then the idea of trying to help someone might be daunting.

So, without actually seeing the video (maybe the video shows otherwise) what I picture happening best case scenario, is:

Woman collapses, and women in changeroom notice
1-2 minutes later women find man at front desk and describe the incident
Man spends a couple of minutes trying to figure out what to do (the assumption is no one suggested calling 911, so he wasn't declining to do so, just didn't consider it) - his female coworker who has CPR training is supposed to show up in literally the next minute, she might be more adept at figuring out what to do.
Eventually (after 2 or so minutes) his co-worker shows up, she goes to the change room and tells him to call an ambulance.

And then everything else happens. Mind you that's the best case scenario, but mostly I'm trying to see if there is an opportunity here for the guy to just be a little confused and slow, as opposed to cold and uncaring.

 

[methane47]

Why didn't one of the ladies call 911 instead of waiting 5 minutes for the guy to do it?

 

[depths20XX]

Is the guy working the gym counter trained on how to save someones life more than the lady who was actually there at the time or something?

He should have called 911 though.

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

Pretty horrible, but I somehow doubt he would've been any help.

 

[OnPoint]

Its hard to hold people accountable for how they react in a crisis. Not everyone handles that shit well, its not really their fault. Here we have 3 people presumably all capable of calling 911 yet we only focus in on the guy. Its not a malicious thing, some people just shut down.

We train people from an early age to call 911 in the event of a crisis. I guess some people freeze up, but I can't identify with or defend a seemingly total lack of reaction.

 

[Devolution]

Exactly. To put it in the same framing some others have used, the company could be sued if their policy leads to someone's death, so if they want to avoid lawsuits, they should probably change their policy.

Especially if it's a gym and people are exerting themselves. It's pretty ridiculous an employee feels like he can't venture anywhere on the property to help someone out.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

People are really going out of their way to excuse this. "He isn't a doctor, nothing could be done." How could he possibly know that in the moment, that there was nothing that he could have done? He couldn't have gone in and assessed the situation faster so the ambulance wasn't called 5 minutes later because he doesn't have a medical degree?

Just because you're not a doctor, doesn't mean you should sit on your hands during an emergency. That's just stupid. You see what you can do, and call for help.

 

[Meier]

Why didn't one of the ladies call 911 instead of waiting 5 minutes for the guy to do it?

If you're at the gym, your stuff is usually in a locker and you don't have access to a phone. An employee would be able to use a phone at any moment without a delay if they're at the front desk.

 

[Kinitari]

If you're at the gym, your stuff is usually in a locker and you don't have access to a phone. An employee would be able to use a phone at any moment without a delay if they're at the front desk.

So do you think they suggested he call 911, and he declined? Or just that no one suggested it - maybe everyone assumed someone else already had done it.

 

[Timedog]

People are just making the assumption that the guy magically knew live-saving techniques, because that's how it happens in movies or something...

 

[Zoe]

We train people from an early age to call 911 in the event of a crisis. I guess some people freeze up, but I can't identify with or defend a seemingly total lack of reaction.

But you're also taught in any kind of emergency response training that unless you single out a specific person and instruct them to call 911, people will be bumbling idiots and pass around responsibility.

 

[Linkhero1]

I really doubt he would have been able to do anything even if he went in there since it doesn't seem like he has training of any kind. Should have dialed 911 immediately.

 

[tokyostomp]

He messed up, could have seen some titties AND been a hero

 

[Dai101]

The Ultimate GAFman

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Shitty situation, guy was probably confused and didn't know what to do or appreciate the seriousness of the situation. It sucks, but he never could have done anything anyways. If someone arrests out of the hospital, they're going to die.

 

[hwalker84]

Examples?

Just google "person saved sues" it happens all the time.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

The article does throw the guy under a bus, but it does not mention him having any CPR training and so him going to the locker room may not have amounted to much. I do agree he should have called 911 sooner.

I'd assume you'd have to have CPR training if you're working in a place like that.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

To the people saying the ladies should have called 911: A lot of gyms don't allow you to take camera phones into the locker room, or even on premises sometimes. Wouldn't be surprised if that was the case here, maybe everyone just had a mp3 player on them and phones were in the car.

But yeah, seems like a lot of people were lacking some critical thinking skills here. The guy should have been smart enough to know when to take the situation into his own hands. It's a personality thing, some people just don't know when and when not to break the rules. This was a time where you definitely should have broken the rules.

i bet you at least one of these women had a working cellphone in their purse

 

[Rockandrollclown]

We train people from an early age to call 911 in the event of a crisis. I guess some people freeze up, but I can't identify with or defend a seemingly total lack of reaction.

My gf is a perfect example of falling to pieces. If she was inside a burning building she wouldn't get out, she would panic, in a few minutes call me and I'd have to tell her to leave the burning building. I'm sympathetic to this because I know there's nothing she can do about it. I like to assume when shit like this happens that the victim just had the bad luck of not having someone around who can collect themselves under pressure.

 

[Camp Lo]

Hey nitwits, how the fuck is the front desk guy supposed to save this woman's life? He's not a doctor.

EMT only took minutes to get there. He spent 5 minutes doing nothing THEN called after which the female employee had a FAINT pulse.

He was supposed to call 911 immediately, forget the rest of the women.

 

[Cyan]

Just google "person saved sues" it happens all the time.

I'm not finding thwhat you claim here:

That guy's an idiot! If someone is in trouble, they won't care if you enter the ladies room.

You'd think that but we've all seen on Gaf stories that go the opposite way.

People are just making the assumption that the guy magically knew live-saving techniques, because that's how it happens in movies or something...

He was the guy in charge, Dawg. Even if he didn't know life-saving techniques, he should've gone in, assessed the situation, and then called 911.

 

[this_guy]

We train people from an early age to call 911 in the event of a crisis. I guess some people freeze up, but I can't identify with or defend a seemingly total lack of reaction.

Yes we do. What we don't do is tell people to find the cashier and tell them about the incident.

 

[siddx]

People are just making the assumption that the guy magically knew live-saving techniques, because that's how it happens in movies or something...

It's not unreasonable to expect someone who works in a place where men and women of a wide variety of ages work their bodies often to exhaustion to know some first aid. Regardless of whether he could have done anything, it was the correct move to seek him out and if he didn't know first aid he still should have called 911 immediately regardless and then gone to see what had happened to at the very least assess the situation, calm other gym goers down, and lend whatever help he can, even if it was as simple as watching over her until medics arrived.

 

[CharlieDigital]

People are really going out of their way to excuse this. "He isn't a doctor, nothing could be done." How could he possibly know that in the moment, that there was nothing that he could have done? He couldn't have gone in and assessed the situation faster so the ambulance wasn't called 5 minutes later because he doesn't have a medical degree?

Just because you're not a doctor, doesn't mean you should sit on your hands during an emergency. That's just stupid. You see what you can do, and call for help.

In my mind, his only mistake was not calling 911 faster; should have been an immediate reaction.

Helping the woman I'm on the fence about. If he's not trained, he could do more harm than good.

 

[liquidtmd]

Easy to judge but...

Whilst at fault for inaction, maybe he was concerned of 'Pervert guy gets sexual harassment suit and sued by women he saw in the buff at gym'. I've heard of stranger headlines on GAF

I'm not defending him, the gym should have clear training for such occasions and he should have called 911 but if he's a normal guy then he's going to have to live with this for life. I know it would eat me up.

Helping the woman I'm on the fence about. If he's not trained, he could do more harm than good.

Yeah and this. If hed not been trained, had saved her but shed been paralysed or some such he still would have been sued the shit out of. Again its not a defence but in that heat of the moment, clear lines of thinking are hard to come by

 

[Zoe]

I'd assume you'd have to have CPR training if you're working in a place like that.

Why would a front-end grunt need training?

The website doesn't say anything about requiring certifications.

 

[RustyNails]

Sad, and he's a bit of a dumbass, but in this hyper-litigious society we live in I can't blame anybody for being paranoid.

He should have dialed 911 though I mean come on.

.

 

[Kinitari]

EMT only took minutes to get there. He spent 5 minutes doing nothing THEN called after which the female employee had a FAINT pulse.

He was supposed to call 911 immediately, forget the rest of the women.

It says nearly 5 minutes after the woman collapsed. So put it at 1-2 minutes between her collapsing and the women telling the guy at the front desk, another half minute of them explaining what happened, asking him to help, him instinctively saying "no, a female who has cpr training should be here in a minute" - that woman showing up in a minute and probably telling him to call 911 as she goes to help the woman. Still not great, definitely, but I don't think taking a minute or two trying to parse an intense situation and doing poorly is a reason to throw a guy under the bus. But who knows, maybe the guy is actually a dick, declined to call 911 and was just being lazy.

 

[MIMIC]

At the very least, dial 9-1-1.

And once the women realized they weren't getting any help from him, what did they do?

 

[Devolution]

It says nearly 5 minutes after the woman collapsed. So put it at 1-2 minutes between her collapsing and the women telling the guy at the front desk, another half minute of them explaining what happened, asking him to help, him instinctively saying "no, a female who has cpr training should be here in a minute" - that woman showing up in a minute and probably telling him to call 911 as she goes to help the woman. Still not great, definitely, but I don't think taking a minute or two trying to parse an intense situation and doing poorly is a reason to throw a guy under the bus. But who knows, maybe the guy is actually a dick, declined to call 911 and was just being lazy.

Where did this come from?

 

[Cmagus]

The sad part of this all is though, that if he would have gone in and saved her, he would later be fired for going into the locker room anyway.

Messed up world we live in.

My last job was like that. We had to have CPR training but we were told that should something happen not to do anything just call 911. Granted I would have should a situation like that happened but we were told we would be let go if we did because of liability.

 

[Vermillion]

I don't know if he could have done anything on his own, but he should have called 911.

 

[linkboy]

Also, if you work at a fitness center and you're not CPR/AED certified, something is wrong.

Just last year, at the gym I work at, we had someone collapse and the only reason that person is alive today is because one of my co-workers was CPR/AED certified.

It's a valuable skill to have.