Support NeoGAF

Opus Angelorum · Jun 14, 2008

Shane was an embarrassment.

Ecto311 · Jun 14, 2008

Opus Angelorum said:
Shane was an embarrassment.

Can't say I'm surprised. Every one says this mangod bullshit but he sucks, he is always so negative about anything that isn't Sony. I wish Sony would just hire him to clean toilets and get him out of these podcasts and anything to do with 1up.

This was a good podcast otherwise but is the new FM bullshit going to be clean? They said this was for the "kids" does that mean its toned down?

Absinthe (Permed) · Jun 14, 2008

Opus Angelorum said:
Shane was an embarrassment.

He was no more of an embarrassment than Garnett was. Shane is a fanboy of the Metal Gear franchise, but we all knew that already. I also didn't take his "peasants" remark all that seriously and it was obvious that he said that to get a reaction out of people (guess what--it worked). He's a fanboy, but I think all of us are hopelessly in love with certain franchises.

All I heard was a bunch of nit-picking when it came to criticisms leveled at the game. It amazes me how the series has evolved and gotten better, yet people go out of their way to nit-pick certain facets. I think it may be the most complete game ever made. Sure, it's not perfect, but it may be the most polished game ever released.

dkeane · Jun 14, 2008

I think Ryan was the first 1UP Yours industry/developer guest that I really enjoyed. Maybe it's because he does his own podcast. It was sort of silly having some people only 2 hours into Metal Gear posing criticisms though.

Great podcast. I hope Shane and Garnett really send in some drunk dialing segments next week.

LCfiner · Jun 14, 2008

Absinthe said:
He was no more of an embarrassment than Garnett was.

What? Not even close. Garnett was talking about minor issues he was personally having playing the game, but also mentioned the amazingly high production values of the game as a positive. Should he have kept his mouth shut about his feelings because they weren't 100% positive? Get outta here!

Meanwhile, Shane was in full-on SDF mode in this episode. I appreciate that he REALLY liked the game, but the manner that he shot down any and all criticisms was fucking cringe inducing.

Opus Angelorum · Jun 14, 2008

Absinthe said:
Sure, it's not perfect, but it may be the most polished game ever released.

The issue I had with Shane is that he as a reviewer would have ignored all of the faults because everything else was so stellar.

This is exactly why he shouldn't have reviewed it.

Absinthe (Permed) · Jun 14, 2008

LCfiner said:
What? Not even close. Garnett was talking about minor issues he was personally having playing the game, but also mentioned the amazingly high production values of the game as a positive. Should he have kept his mouth shut about his feelings because they weren't 100% positive? Get outta here!

Meanwhile, Shane was in full-on SDF mode in this episode. I appreciate that he REALLY liked the game, but the manner that he shot down any and all criticisms was fucking cringe inducing.

Wasn't Garnett the one bitching about the game and then he had to be corrected because he didn't even know how to fucking play it? Then he went on to admit that he didn't read the instruction manual. That was embarrassing. Before someone can make complaints, they have to educate themselves first.

People can bash Shane all they want, but I think he legitimately defended the game and I didn't see anything wrong with what he said. And people forgive games for their shortcoming and award them great scores all the time. Look at the Gears of War 1up review. Look at almost every single GTAIV review.

blame space · Jun 14, 2008

I was screaming at Garnett in my car on my way to work when he started going on about how American games have been pushing intuitive controls more than MGS4.

Pre · Jun 14, 2008

My problem wasn't that Shane really liked the game, just that he completely shot down anyone with a differing opinion and refused to hear them out or accept the fact that they have different ideas of how the game should play. He was in close-minded, SDF mode on this podcast.

Kintaro · Jun 14, 2008

Opus Angelorum said:
The issue I had with Shane is that he as a reviewer would have ignored all of the faults because everything else was so stellar.

This is exactly why he shouldn't have reviewed it.

Remember, A+ doesn't mean perfect. :lol

You must have a lot of issues with reviewers lately then.

Pre said:
My problem wasn't that Shane really liked the game, just that he completely shot down anyone with a differing opinion and refused to hear them out or accept the fact that they have different ideas of how the game should play. He was in close-minded, SDF mode on this podcast.

He really wouldn't have been this way if anyone else sans Skip, who was pretty quiet IIRC (I dunno his voice well so I can't even recall him talking much during the podcast)k had played the game past one or two hours.

traveler · Jun 14, 2008

blame space said:
I was screaming at Garnett in my car on my way to work when he started going on about how American games have been pushing intuitive controls more than MGS4.

Why?

Edit: I don't think he's asking than Shane not give it a A+ if he felt it deserved it; I think Opus was just objecting to the idea that Shane wouldn't even bring up the flaws in a review, regardless of the score.

LCfiner · Jun 14, 2008

Absinthe said:
Wasn't Garnett the one bitching about the game and then he had to be corrected because he didn't even know how to fucking play it? Then he went on to admit that he didn't read the instruction manual. That was embarrassing. Before someone can make complaints, they have to educate themselves first.

People can bash Shane all they want, but I think he legitimately defended the game and I didn't see anything wrong with what he said. And people forgive games for their shortcoming and award them great scores all the time. Look at the Gears of War 1up review. Look at almost every single GTAIV review.

He said he couldn't shoot while lying down and they corrected him. It was funny for me cuz I felt the same way playing Act 1. I forgot I had to press the L1 button to shoot (or roll) while lying down.

I didn't find his comment embarrassing or fanboyish. It was simply indicative of how, for all of Ryan's talking about MGS4 being super accessible, they still have a little ways to go to be as easy to get into as modern western developed action games.

On another note, I'm surprised that Ryan was trying to defend the passiveness of the cutscenes by mentioning the L1 or X button stuff. Pressing a single button to change a camera angle does NOT make a cutscene magically "interactive"; it's still a really passive experience.

Opus Angelorum · Jun 14, 2008

traveler said:
I think Opus was just objecting to the idea that Shane wouldn't even bring up the flaws in a review, regardless of the score.

This.

Kintaro · Jun 14, 2008

LCfiner said:
I didn't find his comment embarrassing or fanboyish. It was simply indicative of how, for all of Ryan's talking about MGS4 being super accessible, they still have a little ways to go to be as easy to get into as modern western developed action games.

Oh? Name a modern western 3rd person action game were you can crawl, roll over face up, shoot while laying face up, side roll to evade bullets, or play dead. When you can, name how "easy" it was to do so compared to MGS4.

HK-47 · Jun 14, 2008

Absinthe said:
Wasn't Garnett the one bitching about the game and then he had to be corrected because he didn't even know how to fucking play it? Then he went on to admit that he didn't read the instruction manual. That was embarrassing. Before someone can make complaints, they have to educate themselves first.

People can bash Shane all they want, but I think he legitimately defended the game and I didn't see anything wrong with what he said. And people forgive games for their shortcoming and award them great scores all the time. Look at the Gears of War 1up review. Look at almost every single GTAIV review.

And we bashed those reviews too. Have you not seen the backlash against GTA IV's scores?

Pre · Jun 14, 2008

Kintaro said:
Oh? Name a modern western 3rd person action game were you can crawl, roll over face up, shoot while laying face up, side roll to evade bullets, or play dead. When you can, name how "easy" it was to do so compared to MGS4.

Those things have nothing to do with how easy the game is to get into.

mileS · Jun 14, 2008

LCfiner said:
He said he couldn't shoot while lying down and they corrected him. It was funny for me cuz I felt the same way playing Act 1. I forgot I had to press the L1 button to shoot (or roll) while lying down.

I didn't find his comment embarrassing or fanboyish. It was simply indicative of how, for all of Ryan's talking about MGS4 being super accessible, they still have a little ways to go to be as easy to get into as modern western developed action games.

On another note, I'm surprised that Ryan was trying to defend the passiveness of the cutscenes by mentioning the L1 or X button stuff. Pressing a single button to change a camera angle does NOT make a cutscene magically "interactive"; it's still a really passive experience.

still have a ways to go? Like make it a FPS or a typical 3rd person shooter? please explain to me how you would think it would be more "accessible"

Absinthe (Permed) · Jun 14, 2008

Kintaro said:
Oh? Name a modern western 3rd person action game were you can crawl, roll over face up, shoot while laying face up, side roll to evade bullets, or play dead. When you can, name how "easy" it was to do so compared to MGS4.

Also, Garnett didn't even know what the circular line surrounding Snake was used for and he had to be told what that is used for as well.

I just think it's extremely sophomoric to complain about the game when it's obvious the person that is playing it doesn't even know how.

All of this shit could have been avoided if they did this podcast AFTER everyone beat the game. Shane was probably annoyed because he's actually beaten it and knows better.

firehawk12 · Jun 14, 2008

Peyton was comparing the game to GRAW. And yeah, you can't play dead in GRAW because it's not that kind of game, but you can prone and roll.
Of course, the reason why it was easy in GRAW was because in both games they built in a tutorial mission, whereas MGS4 just puts you into the story and tries to teach you through Act 1.

luffeN · Jun 14, 2008

why does garnett not say that cod 5 is using an enhanced cod 4 engine? isnt it already known !?

Die Squirrel Die · Jun 14, 2008

banKai said:
why does garnett not say that cod 5 is using an enhanced cod 4 engine? isnt it already known !?

Probably didn't want to overstep any embargoes. He didn't seem too up to speed on what was or wasn't in the official release.

TTG · Jun 14, 2008

Absinthe said:
He was no more of an embarrassment than Garnett was. Shane is a fanboy of the Metal Gear franchise, but we all knew that already. I also didn't take his "peasants" remark all that seriously and it was obvious that he said that to get a reaction out of people (guess what--it worked). He's a fanboy, but I think all of us are hopelessly in love with certain franchises.

All I heard was a bunch of nit-picking when it came to criticisms leveled at the game. It amazes me how the series has evolved and gotten better, yet people go out of their way to nit-pick certain facets. I think it may be the most complete game ever made. Sure, it's not perfect, but it may be the most polished game ever released.

You have to keep in mind that MOST of the time when they(not just Garnett) give their impressions on a game, chances are they'll never even get half way through it.

Ofcourse they usually don't like to mention things like that :lol But if you listen on a weekly basis you'll see that unless they were writing a review for the game they probably won't spend more than 5 hours playing.

Epiphyte · Jun 14, 2008

Absinthe said:
Also, Garnett didn't even know what the circular line surrounding Snake was used for and he had to be told what that is used for as well.

I just think it's extremely sophomoric to complain about the game when it's obvious the person that is playing it doesn't even know how.

All of this shit could have been avoided if they did this podcast AFTER everyone beat the game. Shane was probably annoyed because he's actually beaten it and knows better.

Do you consider it an indictment of the game that someone could play for several hours and still be totally confused as to the controls/HUD?

Kintaro · Jun 14, 2008

firehawk12 said:
Peyton was comparing the game to GRAW. And yeah, you can't play dead in GRAW because it's not that kind of game, but you can prone and roll.
Of course, the reason why it was easy in GRAW was because in both games they built in a tutorial mission, whereas MGS4 just puts you into the story and tries to teach you through Act 1.

I don't recall you being able to roll in GRAW. But yes, you can go prone and crawl. So, lets see. You push a button twice in MGS4 (or hold it) to go prone. You click the analog stick twice to go prone in GRAW. In both games, you hold a left shoulder button to aim in the stance and push a right shoulder button to fire.

Both games do the same thing to accomplish the same thing. MGS teaches you how to go prone almost right away by the way. Or, I dunno, can hit the virtual range to get used to the controls before starting. They give you the mode for a reason.

GhaleonQ · Jun 14, 2008

Acid08 said:
MGS's story raises the bar because of the themes it deals with. The whole military becoming a privatized corporation is completely believable and gives us a haunting look into what might be our future.

You read a lot of Tom Clancy novels, don't you? I love the Metal Gear series, but its storyline is completely nonsense, thematically hollow, and divorced from its gameplay, permanently. The reason that it takes place in an alternate history of the world is that every single theme or talking point Kojima wrote has been proved wrong, sometimes within the fabric of the game. Genetic engineering, the merits of pacifism (the Philosophers were who, again?), the fundamental corruption of national governments, nuclear deterrence, the lucrativeness of war? Kojima is clearly not paying attention to world affairs. How's it go, again? "War's no longer between nations, ethnicities, or ideologies"? Ooh, eerily prescient, Kojima! Too bad your ages-long development time caused Metal Gear Solid 4 to be released right in a massive worldwide resurgence of exactly that.

Esperado said:
A war economy already exists today. There are already private weapons dealers, private military corporations, and ongoing battles fought using this equipment and personnel. Not to mention the military already controlled by nation's and the research, development, and production of new weapons and military technology.

Er, no. That's "an economy," one where diversified sectors build products that people want and use their money to buy products from others doing the same thing. A "war economy," as Metal Gear Solid 4 says, is one where the vast bulk of the economy is used to fund a military state that crushes and absorbs other economies. No one's operating zaibatsu in 2008.

Cirekiller said:
That or more people got employed to produce stuff otherwise not needed. I'm not saying MGS4 on a whole is feasible only that one point.

...I feel like you're not really grasping what Kojima is saying and how it is different from what you are saying.

dollartaco said:
I don't understand why the believability of a story has anything to do with its quality. The MGS series has depth to its scenarios and characters precisely because of the design choices of Kojima, including the long cut scenes.

It doesn't. Look at Shawn's questions in the comments section of N'Gail Croal's for-once-not-over-the-top article on Metal Gear Solid 4. The problem is that the fantasy undermines the obstensible themes. Tarkovsky's "Stalker" is a (kind of) science fiction story that doesn't.

firehawk12 · Jun 14, 2008

Kintaro said:
I don't recall you being able to roll in GRAW. But yes, you can go prone and crawl. So, lets see. You push a button twice in MGS4 (or hold it) to go prone. You click the analog stick twice to go prone in GRAW. In both games, you hold a left shoulder button to aim in the stance and push a right shoulder button to fire.

Both games do the same thing to accomplish the same thing. MGS teaches you how to go prone almost right away by the way. Or, I dunno, can hit the virtual range to get used to the controls before starting. They give you the mode for a reason.

It's been too long since I've played GRAW, but rolling while prone involves pressing one of the face buttons and moving the stick toward the direction that you want to roll.

I mean, I don't know... there are things that I just didn't know about, like playing dead. I also couldn't get a handle on CQC, so I just used the electro shock knife thing. It makes sense that they weren't part of the act 1 tutorial, because Snake is this bad ass soldier... but then again, this is the game that tells you to press the "start" button without batting an eye, so I'm sure they could have done something.

TTG · Jun 15, 2008

firehawk12 said:
It's been too long since I've played GRAW, but rolling while prone involves pressing one of the face buttons and moving the stick toward the direction that you want to roll.

I mean, I don't know... there are things that I just didn't know about, like playing dead. I also couldn't get a handle on CQC, so I just used the electro shock knife thing. It makes sense that they weren't part of the act 1 tutorial, because Snake is this bad ass soldier... but then again, this is the game that tells you to press the "start" button without batting an eye, so I'm sure they could have done something.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/35160.html

Saw that in another thread...

firehawk12 · Jun 15, 2008

TTG said:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/35160.html

Saw that in another thread...

Ah, I think my problem is that I'm pressing R1 too early? I dunno.
Still, it'd be nice if that was put into the game proper... just a lone guy standing there and Otacon screaming in your ear "grab him with the R1 button!".

rollingstart · Jun 15, 2008

firehawk12 said:
Peyton was comparing the game to GRAW. And yeah, you can't play dead in GRAW because it's not that kind of game, but you can prone and roll.
Of course, the reason why it was easy in GRAW was because in both games they built in a tutorial mission, whereas MGS4 just puts you into the story and tries to teach you through Act 1.

GRAW has a lot of actions I didn't know about under several hours into the game. Doing the dive into prone and baseball slide happened randomly and I had no clue what I was doing.

jetjevons · Jun 15, 2008

Brashnir said:
Neither of those taught me anything about anything. They're good entertainment, but I wouldn't call them educational.

Band of Brothers was educational. Did you actually watch it?

DjangoReinhardt · Jun 15, 2008

LCfiner said:
On another note, I'm surprised that Ryan was trying to defend the passiveness of the cutscenes by mentioning the L1 or X button stuff. Pressing a single button to change a camera angle does NOT make a cutscene magically "interactive"; it's still a really passive experience.

The guy was there to whore product; he wasn't there for real discussion. This episode was exactly why the show needed Shawn.

eznark · Jun 15, 2008

Skip, just started listening but wanted to thank you for ripping them filthy gophers.

LCfiner · Jun 15, 2008

I think these recent comparisons of MGS4 to GRAW only serve to indicate how hardcore MGS4 still is.

GRAW is a hardcore game (for console owners - i'm not going to get into a comparison with the old PC Recon games) and it relishes being a hardcore game.

Ryan was saying how they wanted MGS4 to be newb friendly but I think they've only managed to match GRAW for ease of entry. I'm not going to split hairs over which may be simpler. If they wanted to make it easier to play, they would need to introduce some of their complex moves in gameplay scenarios or limit the total number of moves or weapon/item options (not something I think they needed to do, personally)

anyway, I'm finally at the end of act 1 and taking a mini break. I don't want to get labelled a hater, I'm digging MGS4 so far

Django: I know Ryan was there for promotional considerations, I just thought it was interesting how he chose to defend the cutscenes when John called them passive. Pick another battle, Ryan. changing camera angles didn't make assassin's creed's cutscenes less passive and it's the same thing here.

Kintaro · Jun 15, 2008

LCfiner said:
I think these recent comparisons of MGS4 to GRAW only serve to indicate how hardcore MGS4 still is.

GRAW is a hardcore game (for console owners - i'm not going to get into a comparison with the old PC Recon games) and it relishes being a hardcore game.

Ryan was saying how they wanted MGS4 to be newb friendly but I think they've only managed to match GRAW for ease of entry. I'm not going to split hairs over which may be simpler. If they wanted to make it easier to play, they would need to introduce some of their complex moves in gameplay scenarios or limit the total number of moves or weapon/item options (not something I think they needed to do, personally)

anyway, I'm finally at the end of act 1 and taking a mini break. I don't want to get labelled a hater, I'm digging MGS4 so far.

I think MGS4 is definitely much more friendlier to get into. However, I don't think they ever wanted to make the game accessible to grandmas or...whatever people think it should be.

I think we should take a step back and look at all the games on the next gen consoles that sell a million+ or more and realize NONE OF THEM are easy as pie to get into to a people who hasn't played those genres before. We really don't expect them to be either. Yet, MGS4 gets a bit more flack for it? I'm not really understanding why. The past games were overly complex control wise, sure. However, MGS4 is up to par for any other 3rd person action game in entire gen in terms of control and the ability to settle into it.

firehawk12 · Jun 15, 2008

Linkzg said:
GRAW has a lot of actions I didn't know about under several hours into the game. Doing the dive into prone and baseball slide happened randomly and I had no clue what I was doing.

I don't think the slide had any effect on gameplay though. It was just an animation that looked cool?

Let's compare to Splinter Cell though, since they're at least somewhat comparable. That game basically babies you by telling you when you should press a button in order to do a "CQC" grab. That's all I really needed in MGS4 to make the game a little easier to play and so I don't look like an idiot swinging my knife behind someone and drawing their attention.

dead souls · Jun 15, 2008

DjangoReinhardt said:
The guy was there to whore product; he wasn't there for real discussion. This episode was exactly why the show needed Shawn.

You're completely right. I mean I expected some blatant fanboyism, but Shane was ridiculously over the top and made the podcast almost unlistenable.

Vyse The Legend · Jun 15, 2008

Ouch...

Garnet isn't very bright.

Absinthe (Permed) · Jun 15, 2008

Epiphyte said:
Do you consider it an indictment of the game that someone could play for several hours and still be totally confused as to the controls/HUD?

No, I don't. In fact, I think the game does a fantastic job of welcoming newcomers and that's specifically what Ryan said they slaved over. I've never played a Metal Game fore more than a couple of hours, but I've been able to pick this game up relatively easy. Why? Because I read the manual and I paid attention to the in-game instruction given at practically every turn.

eznark · Jun 15, 2008

if you don't like what i like you're a peasant.

just got to that part. Fuck you dude, fuck you.

colinp · Jun 15, 2008

DjangoReinhardt said:
The guy was there to whore product; he wasn't there for real discussion. This episode was exactly why the show needed Shawn.

I'd love to see Shawn do a "Heroes of Podcasts" and tackle Shane's peasant remark/general MGS4 adoration with one of his trademark voices just as a friendly joke. :lol

eznark · Jun 15, 2008

I like that Shane's opinion of civilian contractors was unaffected by the last few years of real life events, yet he played a video game it and it made him question the way of the world.

You're a fucking peasant Shane.

Creamium · Jun 15, 2008

I think for intelligent and down to earth MGS4 discussion (in contrast to the fucking mess of a segment in this 1UP yours), the Brodeo will be the podcast to listen to. Shawn and probably other people of the cast will be playing it. GFW radio always has the best in-depth game discussion

eznark · Jun 15, 2008

Darunia said:
I think for intelligent and down to earth MGS4 discussion, the Brodeo will be the podcast to listen to. Shawn and probably other people of the cast will be playing it. GFW radio always has the best in-depth game discussion

are you trying to say 1up your is for peasants?

Creamium · Jun 15, 2008

eznark said:
are you trying to say 1up your is for peasants?

not at all, just saying that the MGS4 segment was chaotic and hard to listen to.

Y2Kev · Jun 15, 2008

It was pointless to have the discussion. Garnett and John had only played two hours. I realize it had to happen because Ryan was there this week, but it was like tip toeing around spoilers and around gameplay.

rod · Jun 15, 2008

Darunia said:
I think for intelligent and down to earth MGS4 discussion (in contrast to the fucking mess of a segment in this 1UP yours), the Brodeo will be the podcast to listen to. Shawn and probably other people of the cast will be playing it. GFW radio always has the best in-depth game discussion

i love gfw as much as the next guy, and they do have great in depth coverage of games but....its usually kinda weak. they barely ever like console games unless its a casual game or a BIG release. boom blox for the former and gta4 for the latter.

SapientWolf · Jun 15, 2008

eznark said:
I like that Shane's opinion of civilian contractors was unaffected by the last few years of real life events, yet he played a video game it and it made him question the way of the world.

You're a fucking peasant Shane.

That makes me wonder which angle Mercenaries 2 is going to take. They mentioned that they have a team member working full time on the story but I don't know if it's going to be an exposition on current events and battlefield morality or a shallow excuse to blow things up.

Creamium · Jun 15, 2008

rod said:
i love gfw as much as the next guy, and they do have great in depth coverage of games but....its usually kinda weak. they barely ever like console games unless its a casual game or a BIG release. boom blox for the former and gta4 for the latter.

they don't cover all the games, but when they do it's ace. Example: Mario Galaxy talk, so good.

Gamer @ Heart · Jun 15, 2008

I have never wanted to hear T FROG more than on this podcasts. After watching the 1up show segment i feel he genuinly loves the game but has the mind set to see its flaws unlike almost everyone on this board right now.

eznark · Jun 15, 2008

Gamer @ Heart said:
I have never wanted to hear T FROG more than on this podcasts. After watching the 1up show segment i feel he genuinly loves the game but has the mind set to see its flaws unlike almost everyone on this board right now.

only peasants see flaws in Kojima's magnum opus. It is the greatest piece of art ever created by the hands of man (if Kojima is, in fact, a human and not a God).

Support NeoGAF

1UP Yours - 06/13/08 - Line-up of legends

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Worships the porcelain goddess

Not Wario

Member

Member

Worships the porcelain goddess

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.

Member

Member

Banned

Subete no aware

Member

Member

Member

Member

Worships the porcelain goddess

Member

Subete no aware

Member

Subete no aware

Banned

Bish loves my games!

Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.

Banned

Member

Worships the porcelain goddess

Subete no aware

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup

Banned

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009

Banned

Trucker Sexologist

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup

Member

Banned

Similar threads