Support NeoGAF

[Shahadan]

I find the quick bannings as disturbing as the Piet stuff tbh. And not the best way to discuss things or do something about racism.
People shouldn't be afraid to post and be branded racists and banned. I thought recent events would have made this even more obvious than before but apparently not.

 

[spons]

lol... wannabe Trump. Yeah, cause that's a good role model to follow.

and... unsurprising - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-europe-revolution-take-country-a7408931.html

Considering Trump won the election with the same rhetoric Wilders outs, it's actually a fantastic role model to get more sets in the parliament. Just not one I agree with.

 

[Woorloog]

I find the quick bannings as disturbing as the Piet stuff tbh. And not the best way to discuss things or do something about racism.
People shouldn't be afraid to post and be branded racists and banned. I thought recent events would have made this even more obvious than before but apparently not.

Maybe they shouldn't express racists views?

Saying blackface is OK is racist.

EDIT Considering we're using an internet forum, anyone willing can do simple research easily. Ignorance is no excuse.

 

[Beefy]

I find the quick bannings as disturbing as the Piet stuff tbh. And not the best way to discuss things or do something about racism.
People shouldn't be afraid to post and be branded racists and banned. I thought recent events would have made this even more obvious than before but apparently not.

We post on a forum that is owned by Evilore who has his beliefs, he has instructed mods how to act. We do not post on a forum that has total 100% free speech. That and traditions like this are obviously racist, some people seem to think traditions can't be.

 

[Silver Arrows]

I find the quick bannings as disturbing as the Piet stuff tbh. And not the best way to discuss things or do something about racism.
People shouldn't be afraid to post and be branded racists and banned. I thought recent events would have made this even more obvious than before but apparently not.

Guess what? This shit is racist. Full stop. If you try to defend it with 'b-b-but Dutch culture!' or some other horseshit excuse, then frankly, you deserve to be banned.

It needed to die off a long time ago, but it still remains.

 

[Audioboxer]

Considering Trump won the election with the same rhetoric Wilders outs, it's actually a fantastic role model to get more sets in the parliament. Just not one I agree with.

Sure, fantastic role model if you have zero self-respect and ability to care for humanity. But I get what you mean, power envy meaning he's hitching his chances on trying to emulate Trump to winning.

 

[Yayate]

Police is very restrictive when it comes to protests in the Netherlands, very little is allowed.

Anyway there is a very big chance of Geert Wilders winning the elections with slogans like these (real image)

Wilders is fucking nauseating. The only thing that chucklefuck has over Trump/america's alt right is that he doesn't target LGBT minorities.

I really hope he slips up soon, and hard, so he can actually get convicted for his hate speech, instead of consistently leaning 'on the edge' of legality.

 

[CrunchyB]

Isn't the real reason why Dutch people don't want it to be changed because every immigrant in this country wants them to respect their culture for example Moslims with Hallal.
Now people want to take away a Dutch tradition because they have other thoughts about it.
Dutch people have thoughts about other peoples cultures as well but those won't get prohibited.

People sometimes say the Netherlands is a very tolerant country, but I think that's not entirely correct. We're largely indifferent to other people's customs/opinions and highly anti-authoritarian to boot. As long nobody gets harmed, anything goes.

So when people want to be Catholic, Jewish or Muslim in our originally Protestant country, prostitute themselves, smoke weed or be openly gay, you are welcome to do so, we won't bother you and we won't create any laws to restrict your way of life as long as it doesn't interfere with ours.

So when some "outsiders" tell us we should ban elements of our favorite holiday, our primary reaction will always be no. There is no perceived harm, there is definitely no intended harm, so all vocal opponents will be brushed off as fringe agents and elitists. It's no wonder most politicians are tiptoeing around the subject. PM Rutte is mildly in favor of the status quo, he won't be sticking his neck out for this. You'll have to convince the population first, but the anti-ZP crew blew that opportunity completely and now their opponents have organized themselves.

 

[HStallion]

I get it, but this is not the message that gets delivered around, at least for what I see here.
I know it because I spend a ton of time on various internet boards, normal people and elders need to know this without being accused of being monsters and with a valid explanation, otherwise it will only change for the worse.

And again, I repeat, GAF is terrible at this.

GAF can be but GAF is also always explaining over and over and over and over to the same groups of people why something that is fairly obviously racist is... well racist. Its not a fun situation to be in and can be incredibly disheartening to even the most ardent supporter of equality.

 

[NewDust]

^

Your trying to say these protests don't atract aggressive protesters? A soccer match already gets aggressive, can you imagine what would happen if there really is something at stake. Even if intentions were peaceful, if you can't see how spontaneous protets between (radical) left and white supremacist (nvu) can get grim...

 

[roytheone]

Police is very restrictive when it comes to protests in the Netherlands, very little is allowed.

Anyway there is a very big chance of Geert Wilders winning the elections with slogans like these (real image)

Luckily, we don't have a "winner takes all" system and even in the sad case he ends up winning, he will still have to form a coalition with other, less insane people.

 

[CrunchyB]

Wilders is fucking nauseating. The only thing that chucklefuck has over Trump/america's alt right is that he doesn't target LGBT minorities.

He could never do that, because Muslim intolerance of LGBT is one of his arguments for banning the religeon.

He's also very pro-Israel, even spent some time there in his youth. That's probably where his Islam-hate originated.

 

[Silver Arrows]

GAF can be but GAF is also always explaining over and over and over and over to the same groups of people why something that is fairly obviously racist is... well racist. Its not a fun situation to be in and can be incredibly disheartening to even the most ardent supporter of equality.

Especially when that same group is tired of having to explain over and over again, and not have them listen, and yet have Europeans rushing into threads where some black kid is shot, and deciding to play moral police when they are willingly blind to the problems that face black people in their own backyard.

 

[Beefy]

Especially when that same group is tired of having to explain over and over again, and not have them listen, and yet have Europeans rushing into threads where some black kid is shot, and deciding to play moral police when they are willingly blind to the problems that face black people in their own backyard.

It isn't a European thing.

 

[lord quas]

He could never do that, because Muslim intolerance of LGBT is one of his arguments for banning the religeon.

He's also very pro-Israel, even spent some time there in his youth. That's probably where his Islam-hate originated.

I think his Islam-hate originated from him living in Kanaleneiland.

I'm just grateful that there's absolutely no chance that he gets more than 75 seats in the parliament and (hopefully) nobody is willing to form a cabinet with him.

 

[Audioboxer]

It isn't a European thing.

Beefy bro, Brexit. We ain't Europeans anymore. British master race. Don't defend those pesky Euros.

But yeah, this is literally down to a few countries, unfortunately. Most of Europe is actually out in force to always bash these "traditions".

 

[Silver Arrows]

It isn't a European thing.

I know it isn't.

Meh, personally seems better than cops shooting black people to me

But this post just goes to show that those feelings do pervade the discussion on Zwarte Piet. And really, discussion about racism against blacks in regards to Europe.

 

[Beefy]

Beefy bro, Brexit. We ain't Europeans anymore. British master race. Don't defend those pesky Euros.

But yeah, this is literally down to a few countries, unfortunately. Most of Europe is actually out in force to always bash these "traditions".

Don't remind me of Brexit!!!

 

[Akainu]

So the entirety of the very being of the dutch people hangs on a racist caricature? I don't know guys if thats the case maybe we should let them keep it. I didn't realize so much was at stake here. I'm so ashamed of myself.

 

[roytheone]

So the entirety of the very being of the dutch people hangs on a racist caricature? I don't know guys if thats the case maybe we should let them keep it. I didn't realize of much was at stake here. I'm so ashamed of myself.

This has always been one of the dumbest arguments of very pro-piet supporters. The tradition already has changed a lot. Zwarte piet used to be way more demon like and evil, punishing children that didn't behave with physical violence and kidnapping them. That part of the tradition has long been removed from it, so everyone using the argument "but you can't change our tradition!" is already way to late with that.

 

[Caayn]

I find the quick bannings as disturbing as the Piet stuff tbh. And not the best way to discuss things or do something about racism.
People shouldn't be afraid to post and be branded racists and banned. I thought recent events would have made this even more obvious than before but apparently not.

These discussions always seem to turn into a series of bannings, sadly. It's a major reason why I tend not to give any input on these matters on Gaf. And I wouldn't be surprised it there are plenty of others who stay out of these threads for the same reason.

Does zwarte piet need to change? Sure. Do I feel comfortable discussing it on Gaf? No.

 

[Merino]

For those interested, a little selection of the most popular comments on facebook from the Dutch population in response to a video that shows the arrest of the protesters

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/693...s_krijg_lekkers,_wie_stout_is_de_knuppel.html

You come to disturb a children event. Don't cry but take the beating

All of them need to be beaten down so hard that they only wake up after 5th of december. Fucking people

There are fucking white people standing in between them. They have become brainwashed or something

This is not more than logical. These fuckers come to destroy Sinterklaas, the children's holiday. Then you deserve to get a bat beating against your face

They just want to get their validation, it's long past the point where they actually feel discriminated. Fucking people, just beat them to the ground. Compliments to the police, it's enjoyable to watch

Put them on the airplane towards home

---------------------------------------------------------
There are over a thousand more and I don't see any comment that actually defends the protesters and calls the racism out. Everyone is aligned on the opinion that these Fucking People (literally they say Kut Volk. Volk is the dutch word for folk, or race. Basically they are saying Fucking Race rather than Fucking People) who should be put on an airplane home (even though these are dutch born citizens) to leave this country.

 

[DragonSworne]

It's hard to see this any other way than just mass acceptance of racism.

 

[Nollemaster]

I was shocked to see the top comments on a video of detained anti Zwarte Piet protesters being beaten by police officers with batons.

I gave a rough translation of the comments seen in the picture. I tried to keep my translation as impartial as possible.

You came there to ruin children's festivities. Don't whine and enjoy your beating

Find out which of them are one social welfare and you will see a whole lot less next year!

Beat them until they wake up after the 5th of december again, c*nts

I can't believe there are white people protesting as well, they must have been brainwashed.

This breaks my heart

EDIT: Seems Merino and I had the same idea. Great job! On a side note, it's interesting to see the subtle differences in translation.

 

[Merino]

This breaks my heart

EDIT: Seems Merino and I had the same idea. Great job! On a side note, it's interesting to see the subtle differences in translation.

It's truly sickening and it is by far the majority opinion in this country.

And yeah def funny to see. Tried to go bit more literal myself.

 

[Beefy]

For those interested, a little selection of the most popular comments on facebook from the Dutch population in response to a video that shows the arrest of the protesters

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/693...s_krijg_lekkers,_wie_stout_is_de_knuppel.html

---------------------------------------------------------
There are over a thousand more and I don't see any comment that actually defends the protesters and calls the racism out. Everyone is aligned on the opinion that these Fucking People (literally they say Kut Volk. Volk is the dutch word for folk, or race. Basically they are saying Fucking Race rather than Fucking People) who should be put on an airplane home (even though these are dutch born citizens) to leave this country.

Fucking hell. "Don't ruin my racist tradition"

 

[Jenov]

Ah the yearly Sinterklaas thread. You guys saying that you don't see the problem should probably try putting yourself in the shoes of black minorities in your country.

 

[FeD.nL]

For those interested, a little selection of the most popular comments on facebook from the Dutch population in response to a video that shows the arrest of the protesters

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/693...s_krijg_lekkers,_wie_stout_is_de_knuppel.html

[IM]https://s22.postimg.org/rncyzq5gh/zwartepiet.png[/IMG]














---------------------------------------------------------
There are over a thousand more and I don't see any comment that actually defends the protesters and calls the racism out. Everyone is aligned on the opinion that these Fucking People (literally they say Kut Volk. Volk is the dutch word for folk, or race. Basically they are saying Fucking Race rather than Fucking People) who should be put on an airplane home (even though these are dutch born citizens) to leave this country.

What do you expect? Change isn't something that happens overnight. Change is something that is scary in the eyes of many. As I said before:

I was never really made to care for Sinterklaas. My mom was/is still crazy about christmas so on 5 December we would just get a chocolate letter and then the countdown to christmas began.

On that note, from the beginning I was in the change Pete camp. And honestly this year we're seeing some real change. The biggest commercial television broadcast agency banning Black Pete from both the broadcasts and commercials and some major retailers as well.

So I think the OP is really shining light on the subject from one side. You simply can't expect change to happen overnight and I would say we're on the right track. Especially with the fact that elections are coming up so the politicians are doing what they do best and chicken out.

People never see themselves as the bad guy, never as the racist, the liar, the cheater. They always make up "legitmate" reasons for their actions. You cannot say a big part of a country is racist, or keep a racist caricature alive and expect them to accept that.

You have to plant the seed and have patience before you can reap the rewards. People need to have time to adjust, and I fully believe that the people of the Netherlands are in that adjustment period. It just needs patience and encouragement. So instead of focussing on the ones that hold on focus on that ones that change.

Even a revolution does not simply spark one night. It takes months, even years to build up to that point. I think we as a people have been making immense progress the past few years for something that was so ingrained in our culture and that is something that should be encouraged instead of condemning the ones that hold on. Give it time and they will come around.

 

[Nokterian]

For those interested, a little selection of the most popular comments on facebook from the Dutch population in response to a video that shows the arrest of the protesters

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/693...s_krijg_lekkers,_wie_stout_is_de_knuppel.html

---------------------------------------------------------
There are over a thousand more and I don't see any comment that actually defends the protesters and calls the racism out. Everyone is aligned on the opinion that these Fucking People (literally they say Kut Volk. Volk is the dutch word for folk, or race. Basically they are saying Fucking Race rather than Fucking People) who should be put on an airplane home (even though these are dutch born citizens) to leave this country.

I see the comments on facebook as well and people blaming the protesters but not them self as 'we are not racists' it is eye rolling at this point. Saying it is them not us! No it is you.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Police is very restrictive when it comes to protests in the Netherlands, very little is allowed.

Anyway there is a very big chance of Geert Wilders winning the elections with slogans like these (real image)

I don't think protests are very restricted here. But most of the larger protests that get media coverage are the ones that have counter protests going with it. For example with the Pegida stuff, you also have people counter protesting against them. But then the police and local authorities need to manage it, so they don't clash and get into violence. Same thing here.

 

[Nokterian]

I don't think protests are very restricted here. But most of the larger protests that get media coverage are the ones that have counter protests going with it. For example with the Pegida stuff, you also have people counter protesting against them. But then the police and local authorities need to manage it, so they don't clash and get into violence. Same thing here.

Protests when doing peacefully are freedom of speech and you don't need a permit or anything. And yet police arrested them violating there human rights for over nothing, absoluty nothing.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Protests when doing peacefully are freedom of speech and you don't need a permit or anything. And yet police arrested them violating there human rights for over nothing, absoluty nothing.

You do if the local authorities say so. This is not done lightly, and you can disagree with it of course. But there was no violation of human rights here.

What happened was that the local authorities got informed that there would be a group wanting to do a surprise protest. They then set up a ban for protests for the day due to safety concerns. They did not believe there would be enough local police forces to handle this in a good way, due to them being busy at the actual protest sites already.

When the protesters arrived, police informed them that they were happy to escort them to the actual protest zones. The protesters refused. After that police rounded up the people in groups, not all at the same time due to limited capacity I'm guessing. As of this moment, one person is still being held - this person is accused of trying to push a journalist in front of a car.

I am all for protests. But in this situation I can understand the local authorities not wanting to run the risk also that things got out of hand. And if you allow this protest without the necessary police capacity, then what do you do when the other sides shows up and they clash?

I do think communication from local authorities failed in letting people know the ban, since it was all very last minute. That should have been handled better.

 

[The Citizen Kane of Games]

For those interested, a little selection of the most popular comments on facebook from the Dutch population in response to a video that shows the arrest of the protesters

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/693...s_krijg_lekkers,_wie_stout_is_de_knuppel.html

---------------------------------------------------------
There are over a thousand more and I don't see any comment that actually defends the protesters and calls the racism out. Everyone is aligned on the opinion that these Fucking People (literally they say Kut Volk. Volk is the dutch word for folk, or race. Basically they are saying Fucking Race rather than Fucking People) who should be put on an airplane home (even though these are dutch born citizens) to leave this country.

Dumpert is like the 4chan/Breibart/whatever of the Netherlands. They are always super racist and hive-mindey. These people are scum, so these comments don't surprise me at all, but they very much do not represent the majority of The Netherlands.

 

[Nokterian]

You do if the local authorities say so. This is not done lightly, and you can disagree with it of course. But there was no violation of human rights here.

What happened was that the local authorities got informed that there would be a group wanting to do a surprise protest. They then set up a ban for protests for the day due to safety concerns. They did not believe there would be enough local police forces to handle this in a good way, due to them being busy at the actual protest sites already.

When the protesters arrived, police informed them that they were happy to escort them to the actual protest zones. The protesters refused. After that police rounded up the people in groups, not all at the same time due to limited capacity I'm guessing. As of this moment, one person is still being held - this person is accused of trying to push a journalist in front of a car.

I am all for protests. But in this situation I can understand the local authorities not wanting to run the risk also that things got out of hand. And if you allow this protest without the necessary police capacity, then what do you do when the other sides shows up and they clash?

I do think communication from local authorities failed in letting people know the ban, since it was all very last minute. That should have been handled better.

The protesters where in Rotterdam..not maasluis they where on there way and where locked in place for no reason. Even the police didn't know what the hell they where doing, people where oppressed for there freedom of speech, there freedom of assembly all violated by the police this will get a tail because of it.

They arrested peaceful protesters but i do saw that neo-nazi's from the NVU got escorted by the police to held there own protests and use racial slurs and show racism because that is good? What in a world are we living in?

 

[Kensuke]

The Zwarte Piet debate has kind of disillusioned me with my country. Currently most people have doubled down on the ignorance and simply refuse to see any problems. According to polls the majority of the population wants Zwarte Piet to stay and sees no issues with the caricature.

The white fragility on display has also become sickening. Simply the notion of an old tradition having some racial issues has sent them over the edge to the point I see a lot more open racism than ever before. The protesters are being called by the worst racist insults imaginable, on top of people idiotically saying they should go back to their own country (even though most were born and raised here). It seems that to them being called a racist - though actually, protesters just want them to stop supporting a racist tradition - is the worst insult possible and definitely worse than actual racist insults.

In my mind The Netherlands was always this cool and super progressive country, a world leader in tolerance and acceptance of different cultures. Turns out that's not the case at all. Stuff like Zwarte Piet and the rise of disgusting politicians like Wilders have opened my eyes to the fact that there are a ton of racists out there in this country. Reality is a real bummer.

 

[DragonSworne]

You do if the local authorities say so. This is not done lightly, and you can disagree with it of course. But there was no violation of human rights here.

What happened was that the local authorities got informed that there would be a group wanting to do a surprise protest. They then set up a ban for protests for the day due to safety concerns. They did not believe there would be enough local police forces to handle this in a good way, due to them being busy at the actual protest sites already.

When the protesters arrived, police informed them that they were happy to escort them to the actual protest zones. The protesters refused. After that police rounded up the people in groups, not all at the same time due to limited capacity I'm guessing. As of this moment, one person is still being held - this person is accused of trying to push a journalist in front of a car.

I am all for protests. But in this situation I can understand the local authorities not wanting to run the risk also that things got out of hand. And if you allow this protest without the necessary police capacity, then what do you do when the other sides shows up and they clash?

I do think communication from local authorities failed in letting people know the ban, since it was all very last minute. That should have been handled better.

What the hell is a protest zone? Is this shit for real?

 

[NewDust]

The protesters where in Rotterdam..not maasluis they where on there way and where locked in place for no reason. Even the police didn't know what the hell they where doing, people where oppressed for there freedom of speech, there freedom of assembly all violated by the police this will get a tail because of it.

They arrested peaceful protesters but i do saw that neo-nazi's from the NVU got escorted by the police to held there own protests and use racial slurs and show racism because that is good? What in a world are we living in?

Not sure if I am reading this right... Peaceful protest by people which views you support should be allowed, while other peaceful protest by people with views you don't support should be forbidden?

Now I probably don't like the NVU any more than you do, but...

They registered their protest
They held their protest in the designated area
They kept the protest peaceful

I hope zwarte piet gets removed from the tradition in the next years... I'm so tired of the debate.

 

[Nokterian]

Not sure if I am reading this right... Peaceful protest by people which views you support should be allowed, while other peaceful protest by people with views you don't support should be forbidden?

Now I probably don't like the NVU any more than you do, but...

They registered their protest
They held their protest in the designated area
They kept the protest peaceful

I hope zwarte piet gets removed from the tradition in the next years... I'm so tired of the debate.

So you are saying neo-nazi's are ok?

 

[theignoramus]

In other news, a black Sinterklaas, who was trying to bridge the divide by offering an second alternative to the white master figure of Sinterklaas was also refused entry into the city that is hosting the televised parade this year

LOL.
I only ever spectated these threads whenever this subject came up, but they were always full of sanctimonious posters telling Gaffers from America that there wasnt anything racist about this because the Netherlands didnt have America's racial baggage or history with blackface minstrel shows. In other words, "shut up and understand their "cultural traditions"
But what the officers in this picture are doing is "breaking code" and showing us what these celebrations are really about & what the underlying theme really is.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

What the hell is a protest zone? Is this shit for real?

protests are protected by permit in the Netherlands. But you are expected to behave accordingly. It's a decent system to prevent harm or disruption of social processes.
We don't appreciate amateurs like the US does. Here, you have rights within reason, not a license to fuck around.

You really need to get out of news bubbles that provide no context.

edit: see directly above poster, ironically.

 

[Condom]

protests are protected by permit in the Netherlands. But you are expected to behave accordingly. It's a decent system to prevent harm or disruption of social processes.
We don't appreciate amateurs like the US does. Here, you have rights within reason, not a license to fuck around.

You really need to get out of news bubbles that provide no context.

edit: see directly above poster, ironically.

Ever been to protests here (in NL)?

 

[Nokterian]

Ever been to protests here (in NL)?

You don't need a permit to protest. And my guess a bunch here don't know that since there not dutch or they are dutch and not understanding it.

One more thing. Demonstrate is a right under Constitution and ECHR. License not required. They may not ban it. Ending not either.

 

[Joni]

Protests when doing peacefully are freedom of speech and you don't need a permit or anything. And yet police arrested them violating there human rights for over nothing, absoluty nothing.

Freedom of speech doesn’t overrule any other duty or right. Certainly not in Europe where there is no obsession with that one freedom to the destruction of the others.

They arrested peaceful protesters but i do saw that neo-nazi's from the NVU got escorted by the police to held there own protests and use racial slurs and show racism because that is good? What in a world are we living in?

They went to protest in their alloted location. They didn't leave there. They followed the rules. We live in a world where you get freedom of speech if you follow the rules that ensure the safety of all people present. Which as you know is the task of the police.

 

[Doikor]

You don't need a permit to protest. And my guess a bunch here don't know that since there not dutch or they are dutch and not understanding it.



One more thing. Demonstrate is a right under Constitution and ECHR. License not required. They may not ban it. Ending not either.

Yes in most EU countries (especially the Nordics) you have the right to hold a demonstration. You just have to inform the authorities beforehand and follow the rules (which include not bothering the thing you are demonstrating too much by staying in the area assigned to you)

edit: Here in Finland it is not legally even called a demonstration but a "general gathering". To hold one you have to give the following information to the police (6 hours before the event):
1. Organazier
2. Purpose
3. Place and/or route
4. Planned start and end times
5. The security officer/bouncer plan/information provided by the organizer (Järjestyksenvalvoja. Don't know the exact English word)
6. Any structures, props etc. used

 

[Shiggy]

In other news, a black Sinterklaas, who was trying to bridge the divide by offering an second alternative to the white master figure of Sinterklaas was also refused entry into the city that is hosting the televised parade this year

Which photo is first? Do you have more information on this?

 

[PatjuhR]

Lol, just saw that picture on the first page comparing Blackface, Zwarte Piet and a chimney weeper. That picture alone should be the end of protests that want Zwarte Piet unchanged.

 

[Merino]

Which photo is first? Do you have more information on this?

The picture from the OP was first, he was refused entry into the town of Maassluis where there was a televised parade.

He then waited outside of the parade area to confront the white Sinterklaas (second photo).


A response from the lawyer that was present in the protester group:

He wanted to experience what it's like to be a Zwarte Piet activist during Sinterklaas entry. Therefore lawyer Michiel Pestman decided today to go along with his client Jerry Afriyie to Rotterdam. After a few hours he was arrested himself.

Pestman has no good to say about the actions of the police. "It's outrageous. For the protesters it was not at all clear that there was a emergency order and what that meant, not even for me. Only hours after the arrests we got the confirmation."

The agents according to Pestman knew not what to do, after they had trapped a group of about eighty protesters. "Nobody knew which officer was responsible and what to say exactly."

https://translate.google.com/transl...as-totaal-onduidelijk.html&edit-text=&act=url

 

[itsgreen]

A response from the lawyer that was present in the protester group:

https://translate.google.com/transl...as-totaal-onduidelijk.html&edit-text=&act=url

Yeah, the guild of lawyers wasn't happy either with what happened. This will be followed up by the lawyer and others.

Bit weak was the excuse that they didn't know the order not to protest in Rotterdam. Because I knew so I reckon that someone who is involved would know.

 

[7threst]

For those interested, a little selection of the most popular comments on facebook from the Dutch population in response to a video that shows the arrest of the protesters

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/693...s_krijg_lekkers,_wie_stout_is_de_knuppel.html

---------------------------------------------------------
There are over a thousand more and I don't see any comment that actually defends the protesters and calls the racism out. Everyone is aligned on the opinion that these Fucking People (literally they say Kut Volk. Volk is the dutch word for folk, or race. Basically they are saying Fucking Race rather than Fucking People) who should be put on an airplane home (even though these are dutch born citizens) to leave this country.

This is really concerning. Earlier in this thread somebody posted that the change to abandon this racist tradition is set in motion and is unstoppable here in the Netherlands, but seeing posts like this I think we still have a long way to go.

The fact that we are so stubborn here and refuse to se how this tradition really hurts is kinda heartbreaking. Especially since we can easily have a party for childeren without the racist Zwarte Piet. But the Dutch just keep it locked in tradition refusing even to show a willingness to change. It's embarrasing

 

[Ruud_Luiten]

My kid just wants the party; sinterklaas is here to stay; but they are changing the Pieten (which is a good thing).

Yesterday I saw only happy children (which sinterklaas is aimed at.. every color). It was unity...

Please, dont kill this awesome children party. Just change zwarte piet and be done.

I just DONT like it when people riot in front of children. I NEVER like that. Act like an adult and discuss this not in front of the children. That is just wrong.