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[Fehyd]

So did you only watch the Bayonetta video like most here(which, keep in mind, was about the game's marketing, not the game itself), or her rest which were very well informed and researched?

Just saying, don't be that quick to judge.

To be fair, most of her issue with Bayonetta comes to her being sex-negative. To some (even the Women in Videogames panel at PAX East a few years back), Bayonetta is actually considered a positive female character in videogames, because she basically owns her sexuality.

Its also why some of Sarkeesian's biggest female detractors are sex-positive feminists.

 

[Kayhan]

ooooooh will watch

 

[Crantius_Colto]

Having only played the demo of Bayonetta, what elements in the game redeem the imo obvious overly sexualized design of her? The backstory? That she's independent badass that can defend herself?

 

[Conciliator]

Jesus some of you guys have really caught feelings about this woman. I guess I'll watch these videos just to follow along with the meltdowns.

 

[Village]

 

[TentPole]

Having only played the demo of Bayonetta, what elements in the game redeem the imo obvious overly sexualized design of her? The backstory? That she's independent badass that can defend herself?

Sexual characters are not automatically sexist characters.

 

[Veelk]

Good God, I had assumed that the hate died down after several month of delay, but people are STILL giving her shit for basically having the gall to speak.

She really has wasted her time. If people are already dismissing her arguments as being misinformed and biased, then I can only imagine the strawmen they'll set up when the actual videos put up. Regardless of the actual quality of her agruments, its clear very few are going to actually listen to her, going by the comments in this thread. Christ.

 

[Htown]

oh man

watch your blood pressure because the salt content in this thread is gonna be ridiculous

 

[Lime]

Good God, I had assumed that the hate died down after several month of delay, but people are STILL giving her shit for basically having the gall to speak.

She really has wasted her time. If people are already dismissing her arguments as being misinformed and biased, then I can only imagine the strawmen they'll set up when the actual videos put up. Regardless of the actual quality of her agruments, its clear very few are going to actually listen to her, going by the comments in this thread. Christ.

At least it motivates and airs the topic of sexism in games and it exposes the problem with knee-jerk defensiveness of gaming culture against minority claims to equal rights.

Hopefully the medium and culture improve and learn from this and they don't t retract into a niche, male-dominated 'boys club' culture.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

If you've got a problem with the world, change yourself.

 

[sonicmj1]

Again, she is sexist. She feels that it's good when a woman is independent of a man, even though it would help her child more if the father was around to help (this is negative in Sarkeesian's eyes). I have nothing against single mothers (my mom raised all 6 of us almost by herself) or independent women, but a single mother or single father isn't something to celebrate or make far more positive than it is.

Whose asshole did you pull this shit from?

 

[PedroLumpy]

Hope she nails it, cause the internet hate machine is practically frothing at the mouth.

 

[Like the hat?]

Are these videos going to be on youtube or something, or only to kick starter backers?

 

[Alucrid]

At least it motivates and airs the topic of sexism in games and it exposes the problem with knee-jerk defensiveness of gaming culture against minority claims to equal rights.

Hopefully the medium and culture improve and learn from this and they don't t retract into a niche, male-dominated 'boys club' culture.

You're exaggerating the influence, good or bad, that this will have on the medium or industry.

 

[Trey]

Are these videos going to be on youtube or something, or only to kick starter backers?

Available to everyone, on her YouTube page I would wager.

 

[Lime]

You're exaggerating the influence, good or bad, that this will have on the medium or industry.

I'm hoping, not stating that it will necessarily be like what I described.

Besides, the problem of sexism in the games industry and culture automatically gets aired and publicly discussed thanks to the controversy, regardless of whether or not it will be a successfully analysis. This exposure and public discussion are certainly beneficial, I'd say.

 

[Platy]

Bayonetta, scam, Bayonetta, scam, Bayonetta, 6k for youtube videos, Bayonetta

Every single thread

There are some dudes who got 200,000 dolars (within the FIRST WEEK) to make ONE youtube video on a theatre and .... where is the backlash ? =P

Wasn't there a bet made by two gaffers on whether or not she would leave out positive examples on at least one show

At least one positive game on EVERY video

To be fair, most of her issue with Bayonetta comes to her being sex-negative. To some (even the Women in Videogames panel at PAX East a few years back), Bayonetta is actually considered a positive female character in videogames, because she basically owns her sexuality.

Its also why some of Sarkeesian's biggest female detractors are sex-positive feminists.

There are no such a thing as "sex-positive feminists" ... it is called "feminists"

And for the 100000000000 time, she deleted the Bayonetta video and the complains about the lack of research was what made her ask for money on kickstarter to have time to research and better editing.

 

[Aquamarine]

Are these videos going to be on youtube or something, or only to kick starter backers?

Is it relevant? The videos will leak minutes after they air, no matter what distribution platform they're put on.

 

[tkscz]

Damsel in Distress - Video #1
The Fighting F#@k Toy - Video #2
The Sexy Sidekick - Video #3
The Sexy Villainess - Video #4
Background Decoration - Video #5
Voodoo Priestess/Tribal Sorceress - Video #6
Women as Reward - Video #7
Mrs. Male Character - Video #8
Unattractive Equals Evil - Video #9
Man with Boobs - Video #10
Positive Female Characters! - Video #11
Top 10 Most Common Defenses of Sexism in Games - Video #12

I'm starting to loose faith in her ability to make a good argument and not come off as sexist herself. Seriously, Mrs. Male Character? Man with Boobs? These sound like they're going the way of saying these women are more like men, which would technically be sexist against men, stereotyping us as being one distinct way, that if a woman acts like, she's "a man with boobs", and women, claiming they should behave s certain way, or they are not "a real woman". Again, will watch to see if she does that, going from her other videos she will, but she said she won't. So BOTD.

Whose asshole did you pull this shit from?

1. Eww, that is one nasty analogy
2. I watch her videos, this is simply how she comes off. Anything making women SEEM empowering (regardless of if it is or not) she takes as positive, without putting much effort into them.

 

[Like the hat?]

Available to everyone, on her YouTube page I would wager.

Cool, thanks. I'll give em a view.

Is it relevant? The videos will leak minutes after they air, no matter what distribution platform they're put on.

I was just curious because I would like to watch at least the first one and see what the big deal about her is.

 

[Alucrid]

I'm hoping, not stating that it will necessarily be like what I described.

Besides, the problem of sexism in the games industry and culture automatically gets aired and publicly discussed thanks to the controversy, regardless of whether or not it will be a successfully analysis. This exposure and public discussion are certainly beneficial, I'd say.

The spotlight seems to have shifted more from the issue of sexism to the issue of Anita Sarkeesian.

 

[firehawk12]

I'm starting to loose faith in her ability to make a good argument and not come off as sexist herself. Seriously, Mrs. Male Character? Man with Boobs? These sound like they're going the way of saying these women are more like men, which would technically be sexist against men, stereotyping us as being one distinct way, that if a woman acts like she's "a man with boobs", and women, claiming they should behave s certain way, or they are not "a real woman".

These are trope names that are basically pulled off of TVTropes. That's just what they're called.

 

[Pezking]

I think both women and tropes are awesome.

Why can't they just get along?

 

[Pociask]

I'm not sayin', I'm jus' sayin', some people would say the extreme reaction against any feminist (ill-informed or not) criticism of video games shows how male-dominated and anti-women the video gaming society has become (/always has been).

Anyway, I don't get the pre-hate, anymore than I get announcements of announcements. She'll be releasing videos - very soon! - that can be picked apart on their substance. Why don't we judge the work itself?

I'm hoping, not stating that it will necessarily be like what I described.

Besides, the problem of sexism in the games industry and culture automatically gets aired and publicly discussed thanks to the controversy, regardless of whether or not it will be a successfully analysis. This exposure and public discussion are certainly beneficial, I'd say.

I consider these videos much like lancing a boil - uncomfortable, brings a lot of ugly stuff to the surface, but hopefully positive in the long run.

 

[Delusibeta]

Here we go, here we go, here we gooooooooooooooo!

Everyone knows what's going to happen: it's going to be shit and there will be major uproar from the people who paid money for this and there will be large quantities of requests for refunds. The odds of anyone getting a refund now is zero, so more uproar as a result.

Insert reminder of my gentlemanly bet with Platy here.

 

[Aquamarine]

These are trope names that are basically pulled off of TVTropes. That's just what they're called.

I wonder how much of Anita's work will just be retreads of TVTropes articles?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DamselInDistress?from=Main.DistressedDamsel
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DamselInDistress/VideoGames

 

[AppleMIX]

Can't wait to lurk 4chan, shit is going to be amazing.

 

[Fehyd]

There are no such a thing as "sex-positive feminists" ... it is called "feminists"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_feminism Women who identify as "sex-positive" disagree with that assessment.

And for the 100000000000 time, she deleted the Bayonetta video and the complains about the lack of research was what made her ask for money on kickstarter to have time to research and better editing.

I wasn't aware she issued any statements about the video. Just deleted the video off her youtube feed and acted like it never existed. I'm definitely open to being corrected though.

 

[Castle Doctrine]

At least it motivates and airs the topic of sexism in games and it exposes the problem with knee-jerk defensiveness of gaming culture against minority claims to equal rights.

Hopefully the medium and culture improve and learn from this and they don't t retract into a niche, male-dominated 'boys club' culture.

Women already have equal rights. Being represented in a video game is not a right. Also, disparaging remarks like "boys club" doesn't help. The guys who work in the industry are busting their ass trying to make a living, and even that's not happening in today's struggling industry with many of them getting laid off. It's a crappy club if anything.

 

[tkscz]

These are trope names that are basically pulled off of TVTropes. That's just what they're called.

Then she should be putting some effort into changing those names, or coming up with her own names for them. I can understand why go with them, they are the tropes after all, but they come off as sexist themselves, and as such, makes it seem like she will be sexist (like in previous videos).

 

[Jasper Avenue]

I can't wait to see how bad this is going to turn out.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

So will this video be release for non backers?
And on youtube or a special site?

 

[Village]

Sexual characters are not automatically sexist characters.

agreed, you don't gotta be with it but you got knowledge that she can do what she wants.( the character i mean)

However, doesn't make her outfit NOT suck, if this is what this video about how she looks like a hot mess, it maybe a lot more enjoyable.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I wasn't aware she issued any statements about the video. Just deleted the video off her youtube feed and acted like it never existed. I'm definitely open to being corrected though.

She deleted it, cut the portion where she commented on the actual game, and then reposted it. She also left a message saying that those comments were just a joke that people took the wrong way.

 

[Crantius_Colto]

Sexual characters are not automatically sexist characters.

Sure, but it still seems to me that there's still much more objectification going on than needs to be, just for marketing purposes. Like her character (in terms of background) is just an excuse to show tits and ass (even though I kinda like tits and ass).
Disclaimer: I'm being 50% devil's advocate here and 50% unsure if it's not just sexist bullshit in disguise.

 

[Chuckpebble]

These are trope names that are basically pulled off of TVTropes. That's just what they're called.

Mrs. Male Character and Men With Boobs seem redundant to me, so I searched TV Tropes for them, but was unable to find the first one. Here's the latter: Men With Boobs

EDIT: To be more clear on my point. I'm asking for help in defining Mrs. Male Character and how it differentiates from Men With Boobs.

 

[Oxymoron]

Women already have equal rights. Being represented in a video game is not a right. Also, disparaging remarks like "boys club" doesn't help. The guys who work in the industry are busting their ass trying to make a living, and even that's not happening in today's struggling industry with many of them getting laid off. It's a crappy club if anything.

You're absolutely correct. Having your class of people portrayed accurately and respectfully in the media isn't a right. That's why nobody is calling for video game developers to be jailed.

It is, however, really nice to have fully fleshed out characters your can identify with in your favourite medium. And you're allowed to say it, and point out where the medium falls short.

You seem to be making some argument to the effect of "how dare she want better female characters in video games", which is really really weird!

 

[Dr Dogg]

I wonder how much of Anita's work will just be retreads of TVTropes articles?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DamselInDistress?from=Main.DistressedDamsel
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DamselInDistress/VideoGames

Hahaha if that would be the case I can image there would be blood. Kind of reminds me when I was more interested in going to the pub than writing a paper about some art movement or whatever and just basically copied a synopsis from some books. Being stupid and not thinking that my tutor would not only realise it wasn't in my own prose and that she actually owned those books to boot to see my straight up plagiarism. Needless to say I got shouted at and referred.

 

[Vexxan]

I'm sure this will lead to some civilized discussions.


Heh.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

It doesn't matter how good or bad the videos will be, outrage will be epic anyways. Internet will not be the same.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

I understand what she is doing but I highly doubt she will say anything that hadn't been said before, we want solutions to this problem and I hope she give us one.

 

[Aquamarine]

It doesn't matter how good or bad the videos will be, outrage will be epic anyways. Internet will not be the same.

If Anita can find it in her heart to present the topics in a non-binary, nuanced fashion (I'm talking about in-depth analyses into the NATURE behind the "damsel in distress" phenomenon, I'm willing to bet that we'll get a mature discussion here.

If she's just like "THESE CHARACTESR ARE DAMSEL IN DISTRESSES AND THATS BAD BEACUSE IT'S SEXIST K THX FOR UR MONEY LOL"......yeah.

 

[Castle Doctrine]

You're absolutely correct. Having your class of people portrayed accurately and respectfully in the media isn't a right. That's why nobody is calling for video game developers to be jailed.

It is, however, really nice to have fully fleshed out characters your can identify with in your favourite medium. And you're allowed to say it, and point out where the medium falls short.

Agree with all this. Although I wouldn't use the words "accurately and respectfully". I'd rather just have a variety of female characters: good, bad, main bad guy, main protagonist, sexy, frumpy, and, some cannon fodder. The reason I said "not a right" was because Lime called it a right.

You seem to be making some argument to the effect of "how dare she want better female characters in video games", which is really really weird!

Didn't make that argument. You assumed too much. And that's really really weird of you d:

 

[jimi_dini]

but was unable to find the first one. Here's the latter: Men With Boobs

OMG

linked on that site - "Real Women don't wear dresses"

Guess which of these women is the tough, competent one.

...maybe the female POLICE OFFICER. (movie spoiler:

Spoiler

although in fact she dies

). You could follow this up with: is the police sexist? Why doesn't the police allow female police officers to wear dresses?

I think people writing such stuff seem to overanalyse too much and insert their own perceptions and prejudices into everything.

 

[firehawk12]

Mrs. Male Character and Men With Boobs seem redundant to me, so I searched TV Tropes for them, but was unable to find the first one. Here's the latter: Men With Boobs

EDIT: To be more clear on my point. I'm asking for help in defining Mrs. Male Character and how it differentiates from Men With Boobs.

Well, presumably she'll define her versions of those terms whenever the videos come up.

Then she should be putting some effort into changing those names, or coming up with her own names for them. I can understand why go with them, they are the tropes after all, but they come off as sexist themselves, and as such, makes it seem like she will be sexist (like in previous videos).

Er, the tropes exist because of the marginalization of women in popular culture. Their names are supposed to be ironic or satirical.

I wonder how much of Anita's work will just be retreads of TVTropes articles?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...stressedDamsel
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ess/VideoGames

I hope she didn't just take the examples from each one and just a made a video of them.

 

[Pezking]

we want solutions to this problem

Not everybody does.

I'm all for more variety, but I'd hate to see some good ol' tropes vanish for good, even if they are sexist.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I just can't get over that people actually payed for this to get made.

 

[Platy]

Then she should be putting some effort into changing those names, or coming up with her own names for them. I can understand why go with them, they are the tropes after all, but they come off as sexist themselves, and as such, makes it seem like she will be sexist (like in previous videos).

EDIT: To be more clear on my point. I'm asking for help in defining Mrs. Male Character and how it differentiates from Men With Boobs.

But how would you call the fact that they put a bow on pacman head and called it Mrs Pacman ?

 

[Castle Doctrine]

I think Anita should've had Aquamarine join her to help with the project.

 

[Bedlam]

She seems like another case of mistaking sexualization for sexism. Those two things are just not one and the same. Sexism is denying women to vote, to drive cars, job positions despite being equally qualified etc.

What she is doing is merely complaining about stereotypes and badly written characters. I am just as sick of male stereotype characters such as RE5-Chris Redfield and so on but I don't call it sexism. I call it bad and lazy writing.