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Danganronpa Mafia |OT| Grin and Bear It
- Thread starter LaunchpadMcQ
- Start date
This is why I think Sawneeks is Hope. I think the Mimic is Despair and revealing that they had a mimic would be a bad idea. If she had been the mimic she would obviously have said she saw him moving N1. Kalor could have gone in any direction and she would still have seen him.
Her movements line up with when AB was searching the top row, but she had no control over that as AB was hope.
Royal_Flush
Member
Something I noticed while reading the end of D5 (after it happened, I wasn't there):
Pau and Ty4on did seem a bit surprised about that Kalor reveal:
3861 "if you aren't lying"
3877 "Redacted's list"
3880 "if he was [Redacted]"
3909 "idea of a mimic isn't COMPLETELY crazy given what information I have"
Pau and Ty4on did seem a bit surprised about that Kalor reveal:
3861 "if you aren't lying"
3877 "Redacted's list"
3880 "if he was [Redacted]"
3909 "idea of a mimic isn't COMPLETELY crazy given what information I have"
Crab did, if I recall correctly.
Christina Mackenzie
Member
I was wrong about you AB.
What exactly is a mimic? The mafia scum wiki doesn't have anything on the role.
What exactly is a mimic? The mafia scum wiki doesn't have anything on the role.
We weren't surprised. I had seen Kalor every night starting N2, but I didn't want to give it away just in case he was a Hope PR. And I was very suspicious of AB and wasn't convinced that Kalor was Despair. Hence never voting for him. But his death was useful in confirming that there's a mimic.
Terrabyte20xx
Junior Wrestlemania XXX Champion
Sawneeks certainly seemed to think so.
It's an original role made for this game due to it's unique mechanic. Essentially, when someone walks around the halls, someone else's name will show up to other players rather than themselves.
Royal_Flush
Member
No she wouldn't. I'm not saying that is what happened, but it does make sense:
She claimed D3. Conveniently everyone she "saw" on N1 already was dead by then. We know that CzarTim carried out the N1-kill, so the Mimic didn't move N1. None of the people she "saw" can confirm that they saw her. The whole N1 movement could be made up.
She moved N2, saw AB, moved N3 and didn't see AB. She then knows, that AB did not move by her room and she can safely claim she moved on N3 as herself. All the other she claimed to not move, because in her "Kalor"-disguise she saw AB-
Yup. Sawneeks saw him so Crab must have seen her.
I wanted to cast doubt. #3859
If you look at #3556 I assumed "Redacted" didn't move N1 because Sawneeks couldn't exit her room without seeing Kalor. I also never spoke of multiple unknown power roles because I knew they all had to be the same person.
Excactly! If they were made up, why would she not mention seeing Kalor?
And if she moved N2, what were she doing? Pau saw her so she couldn't have been moving towards SalvaPot.
To be more specific: Why (if everything is made up) not lie about seeing "redacted" N1 instead of creating this odd situation where Kalor didn't move N1? If we hadn't lynched Kalor we would have been none the wiser about a mimic.
I remember that post, but I also remember Crab being surprised when Czar outed Sawneeks. I guess there are three possibilities:
1) Crab was surprised to learn Saw had a role
2) Crab was surprised to see Czar out Saw, but already knew she had a role.
3) Crab feigned surprise because reasons.
Bonus: or Sawneeks saw Crab, but Crab saw Kalor (lol)
That begs the question: What the hell was "Kalor" doing N2 if they weren't killing SalvaPot? I've been assuming so far that the mimic has been the (mostly unsuccessful) killer.
Royal_Flush
Member
Because a Mimic very likely is a Despair PR. Why are Despair typically outside? To Kill. CzarTim killed N1, so what would "Kalor" have done N1?
Royal_Flush
Member
Here are the quickest roles to Salva's room. There's a second possible killer, me, so I'll just have to assure you it wasn't me.
Do note this assumes that the mimic moved directly towards SalvaPot.
Quote for new page
Damn. I wouldn't have seen "Kalor" that night if they went left, but Crab would have. That's definitely a possibility.
Royal_Flush
Member
Zippedpinhead
Member
Sawneeks is the only reason why I had discounted kalor as being redacted,
However, the existence of a mimic means that the top aisle is again in play for redacted.
With Pau swing "kalor" after his death, we know the mimic is despair aligned, and likely killed absolutbro.
And I'm spent on movement talk for today,
I think this throws a lot of shade on Sawneeks claims, but I'll wait until she shows up before I draw anymore conclusions because Sawneeks moving and "kalor" moving draws suspicion on her.
However, the existence of a mimic means that the top aisle is again in play for redacted.
With Pau swing "kalor" after his death, we know the mimic is despair aligned, and likely killed absolutbro.
And I'm spent on movement talk for today,
I think this throws a lot of shade on Sawneeks claims, but I'll wait until she shows up before I draw anymore conclusions because Sawneeks moving and "kalor" moving draws suspicion on her.
Royal_Flush
Member
So we are at
a) *Splinter is "Kalor"
b) "Kalor" is not N2's killer
c) Pau and Ty4on are Despair and lying
a) *Splinter is "Kalor"
b) "Kalor" is not N2's killer
c) Pau and Ty4on are Despair and lying
d) The killer did not come from their own room
e) The killer did not take a direct route
Also for c) it's not strictly necessary for BOTH to be lying, though that seems like a pretty convoluted role in there somewhere, Occam's Razor suggests they are both on the same team
I personally believe (e), though admittedly (a) might seem more likely to anyone else
Unless *Splinter is "Kalor" and Sawneeks is lying about seeing "Kalor" N2.
If the mimic doesn't appear from their own room or doesn't take a direct route, then fuck it and fuck the map.
Royal_Flush
Member
Royal_Flush
Member
sandalphon
Member
For the mimic player to have chosen Kalor, would he or she had to move to Kalor's room for their first time in order to acquire Kalor's outfit?
Night 1's killer was CzarTim maybe due to the fact that the mimic had not acquired any costume? In this theory, the mimic must have moved Night 1 or 2 to Kalor's room.
Night 1's killer was CzarTim maybe due to the fact that the mimic had not acquired any costume? In this theory, the mimic must have moved Night 1 or 2 to Kalor's room.
d) The empty room? Or even from Kalor's room, but that would still require e to be true.
e) I don't know, but those large rooms have been wildly unimportant so far?
Ah, for some reason I was thinking she moved N2 and N4.
CzarTim's role PM didn't mention the large rooms when describing the kill command did it? I was thinking this would be something related to the mimic only
CornBurrito
Member
Jesus. Mad respect for AB. I had believed he was simply a sleepwalker, until the whole shit with Kalor and then I thought he was Despair.
I think we really ought to analyze AB's posts from the last couple of days. As well as his voting history. There may very well be clues.
I think we really ought to analyze AB's posts from the last couple of days. As well as his voting history. There may very well be clues.
If the mimic does have to move to the target's room the first night, it couldn't have been *Splinter.
At any rate, we know that there must be non-rulebreaking Despair. Or at least, ones we haven't seen since we're concentrated around right side of the map. So let's try to find some of those.
I'm not convinced that AB's investigative powers really revealed folks' alignment with their role names. After all, CzarTim's was "Super High-School Level Debater" which doesn't exactly give any clues.
CornBurrito
Member
Ok, the situation at the end of D5 was really frenetic and chaotic (but really fun to read). It sounds like poor Kalor was a puppet in Despair's plan. I just wanted to outline things we know for certain, and things we don't regarding the Kalor situation:
1. There is definitely a mimic around, if we are to believe AB that he saw Kalor at night.
Now for the unknowns (this is mostly just me rambling, correct me if I have misunderstood something):
1. Is this role Hope or Despair aligned? Could be that a Hope PR posed as someone they thought was Despair (Kalor did have some suspicion on him) in the hopes of getting him lynched. OR could be that this power was made specifically to mess with Despair, get them into killing students without PRs? That's still a pretty anti-Hope things to do. I highly doubt that this mimic is Hope aligned. I think the power itself would benefit the Despair faction more. If this is a Hope power I expect someone to roleclaim today.
2. AB said he saw Kalor on N2 and N4. Hopefully today we shall get info from Pau/Ty4on and Sawneeks regarding whether they also saw Kalor. If they saw someone else they should probably not out them.
3. Is AB telling the truth about Kalor? It seems like it from reactions from Sawneeks and Pau during the last hour of voting. Maybe AB isn't Despair after all, Kalor seemed to think that before he was offed too.
4. How many costumes does this mimic have? What are the limitations? We only know of Kalor, but there might be other unfortunate souls who have been copied.
5. Do we trust all of the outed PRs with their lists? Could they be covering for a mimic?
Given how this game works, I truly doubt that a Mimic would be a Hope role. Despair can't get confused by a mimic role to the same extent that Hope can.
Personally, I think that the mimic has to take a night to prep a costume. I honestly believe that Sawneeks is Despair. But I need to build a case against her. I don't trust her at all though.
CornBurrito
Member
This is also something we MUST keep in mind. Not knowing any source material, I'd have thought Debater was a Hope role. Or rather, I'd have to null read it.
I don't think we can necessarily clear the 4 people he said he visited. Unless we also do not see those people roaming at night. Goshu and Zipped both claim ordinary student. That role name would be unambiguous.
Forgetting about Sawneeks' room placement and movements and stuff like that (because we probably don't understand enough about it), I wanted to highlight a few scummy things she has done (feels weird doing this when she's not there, but whatever she'll see this eventually). Also, there is a lot of speculation here, but in my head all this makes sense.
1. Was extremely reluctant to give away her role, even when she was inches away from getting Punished. Soft claimed ordinary student at first, I feel like this is something Despair would do. Could this Czar/Saw interaction have been staged?
2. She never did, but during the next day she tells us stuff about the rulebreakers:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=176286156&postcount=2905
Still, all this is information that a Despair wanderer would have access to too. It was also convenient that the people on that list were either dead or Despair.
If she decides to fully claim today, I will happily listen, but I will keep in mind that she has had 3 day phases to get her story straight lol.
3. This post from D3, when the CzarTim bandwagon hadn't quite started yet
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=175953089&postcount=2482
She was the third to vote for him (at that point Goshu had retracted his vote), right after me. Perhaps she was anticipating a bandwagon and decided to bus the Despair Overrider. It makes sense that one of those early votes was another Despair, as that would look like a Hope thing to do. She agreed with my argument to vote for CzarTim and used that as an excuse to be an early bandwagoner. Interesting that she uses my argument to vote for him as a jumping board.
All these points probably have rational explanations, but something isn't sitting right with me.
I need to go through her D5 stuff again as well, especially the chaos that occurred at the end of the day. There might be something that changes my mind.
1. Was extremely reluctant to give away her role, even when she was inches away from getting Punished. Soft claimed ordinary student at first, I feel like this is something Despair would do. Could this Czar/Saw interaction have been staged?
2. She never did, but during the next day she tells us stuff about the rulebreakers:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=176286156&postcount=2905
Still, all this is information that a Despair wanderer would have access to too. It was also convenient that the people on that list were either dead or Despair.
If she decides to fully claim today, I will happily listen, but I will keep in mind that she has had 3 day phases to get her story straight lol.
3. This post from D3, when the CzarTim bandwagon hadn't quite started yet
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=175953089&postcount=2482
She was the third to vote for him (at that point Goshu had retracted his vote), right after me. Perhaps she was anticipating a bandwagon and decided to bus the Despair Overrider. It makes sense that one of those early votes was another Despair, as that would look like a Hope thing to do. She agreed with my argument to vote for CzarTim and used that as an excuse to be an early bandwagoner. Interesting that she uses my argument to vote for him as a jumping board.
All these points probably have rational explanations, but something isn't sitting right with me.
I need to go through her D5 stuff again as well, especially the chaos that occurred at the end of the day. There might be something that changes my mind.
sandalphon
Member
Royal_Flush
Member
Pau, Ty4on, where did you meet N4? I'm trying to figure out what "Kalor" might have targeted in that night.
Don't answer this, we are getting low on Fight Club members as it is
CornBurrito
Member
I find it very fascinating that Sawneeks has only seen people that are already dead, or this "Kalor" person. Nobody else can verify her story.
I do believe she saw Crab on N1. She claims only to be able to move odd nights. What if she "stole" Kalor's identity on N1, and then has been roaming ever since then as Kalor? Sawneeks has no alibi.
Sawneeks also claimed she only ever moved left of her room. I don't know when, but if she claimed this AFTER Ty4on outed Pau's movement (as limited to those 4 rooms only) that's majorly suspicious because it gives her an out for never being seen by Pau.
If Terrabyte or Zipped lied about being ordinary students, surely AbsolutBro would have contradicted them. I don't remember Gosh claiming.
CornBurrito
Member
I was thinking that too honestly, but AB is sadly the person who started the whole Kalor nonsense. It did give everyone a very solid reason for Hope aligned players to be voting for Kalor. So it might not have been them taking advantage to save Zipped, but them taking advantage of being able to vote out a Hope player and easily pin the blame on AB. Because it was really kind of AB's fault.
Can a non-PR Despair have the Ordinary Student title?
Ohhhh good point, someone should check that. Also, to my memory Crab never mentioned Sawneeks as a rulebreaker. I don't think he even hinted at it.
He does say this though:
Not really sure what to make of it. It's pretty vague as far as breadcrumbing goes.
CornBurrito
Member
Actually what doesn't make sense to me is, why fucking kill AB? He is the one who started the thing against Kalor. He was a prime suspect for lynching today. Why didn't Despair feel safe enough to let Town kill him?
Zippedpinhead
Member
Except for ordinary student and (assuming) ordinary despair
What? By lynching Kalor we made a lot of progress by confirming that we had a mimic.
Had AB been alive I would have defended him even more than I am defending Sawneeks because only Kalor and AB were seen by Pau N3 and N4. Lynching Kalor was a risky move.