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[demigod]

- the traditional base on PC/Playstation are likely content to wait for their version to arrive, likely better performing and possibly with DLC included.

We're not stupid, well some of us aren't . After buying TRE on ps4 at full price to support the dev, ill gladly wait for $5 steam.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I hope Crystal Dynamics use this as an opportunity to move on from Tomb Raider and create a new franchise or go back to their Legacy of Kain series.

 

[iceblade997]

Perfect planning by Sony to put Uncharted collection in their cheapest bundle. With Uncharted 4 launching in March this will certainly boost sales of the game

Yeah definitely. Especially with the extra $50 price drop for the Black Friday -> Cyber Monday period.

Because at this time of year you should not be having no stock of the most popular item. It would be ideal for supply to match demand.

Imagine people going to that store depicted in the pictures who are looking for PS4s. There's a good chance they'll just pick up an Xbox because there are no PS4s. People certainly aren't going to get the refurbished ones as a gift.

To be fair though, if you do really want a PS4 you can still get one. Amazon has them in stock, as do Best Buy, Target, Monoprice, and Newegg at the time of this post (Walmart doesn't though). It might not be as ideal as walking out the store with it, but it's not "unable to buy" territory.

You have to remember, that unlike MS, Sony has to worry about the rest of the world too.

LOL.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

We're not stupid, well some of us aren't . After buying TRE on ps4 at full price to support the dev, ill gladly wait for $5 steam.

Yeah, I bought TR on PS3 and TR on PS4, both for full price.

TR2 better be $30 with all DLC included. Won't bother with it until it does. They want to launch it a whole year later? No problem. But don't expect me to pay $60.

 

[crazyprac]

I hope Crystal Dynamics use this as an opportunity to move on from Tomb Raider and create a new franchise or go back to their Legacy of Kain series.

The game itself is great, it's positioning this year wasn't.

 

[Stilton Disco]

I don't. It was a dumb move from the start. Maybe some sympathy for Crystal Dynamics whose work is going largely ignored because their bosses had no faith in their work.

I still think this was all CD's idea in the first place, or at least something they were fully onboard with.

I mean this is the studio that made the last 3 games exclusively for Xbox, leaving the better selling PC and Playstation versions for other studios to port over.

At the very least, I think someone with power over the major decisions of this franchise has had a massive hard on for Microsofts systems for years now, going back at least to Underworld.

 

[Lys Skygge]

I still think this was all CD's idea in the first place, or at least something they were fully onboard with.

I mean this is the studio that made the last 3 games exclusively for Xbox, leaving the better selling PC and Playstation versions for other studios to port over.

At the very least, I think someone with power over the major decisions of this franchise has had a massive hard on for Microsofts systems for years now, going back at least to Underworld.

This. I feel like CD should be blamed more than people think.

 

[Carnby]

I stopped in Best Buy to do an in store pick up that was not ready on Friday. I checked the same PS4 and XB1 piles only to find zero PS4s and the same an amount of XB1s on the floor.

 

[teiresias]

I still think this was all CD's idea in the first place, or at least something they were fully onboard with.

I mean this is the studio that made the last 3 games exclusively for Xbox, leaving the better selling PC and Playstation versions for other studios to port over.

At the very least, I think someone with power over the major decisions of this franchise has had a massive hard on for Microsofts systems for years now, going back at least to Underworld.

Rampant assumptions about how the market was going to look for this generation have continuously bitten developers, publishers, and gaming media in the butt since the current gen announcements started. With any luck we're past the point now where devs and publishers and making misinformed decisions about getting in bed with MS.

This is particularly true since MS pretty much paid an up front price for TR, threw it to the wolves, and left SE/CD trying to salvage an entire franchise brand after the fact. Devs and publisher need to ask themselves whether an upfront pay day is worth risking an entire brand over.

 

[KAL2006]

I am hoping this leads to cheap copies of used Uncharted Trilogy.

 

[Boke1879]

This. I feel like CD should be blamed more than people think.

Nah. I put all the blame on SE. CD can't pen deals like this. It's most likely MS went to SE to talk the particulars.

Anything CD said after that was them going along with what their publisher had already done.

 

[Danlord]

I am hoping this leads to cheap copies of used Uncharted Trilogy.

Chances are it will, it was seemingly the best deal for a PS4 around and whilst I hope everyone plays through the series (because it's amazing), others will just trade it in for something else so the market will be flooded with a lot of used copies of it. The Last of Us Remastered was similar in shops in the UK when that was nicely bundled.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I am hoping this leads to cheap copies of used Uncharted Trilogy.

I already bought a digital code on here for $20 yesterday.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I still think this was all CD's idea in the first place, or at least something they were fully onboard with.

I mean this is the studio that made the last 3 games exclusively for Xbox, leaving the better selling PC and Playstation versions for other studios to port over.

At the very least, I think someone with power over the major decisions of this franchise has had a massive hard on for Microsofts systems for years now, going back at least to Underworld.

The studio head Mr. Gallagher was definitely on board for that passion, but I was thinking more about the employees without decision making power.

Brian Horton, Game Director at CD was on one of the bigger TR forums yesterday and basically said the studio was proud of their work from a critical standpoint and that the commercial aspect was out of their hands.

This doesn't change my stance that a lesson needs to be learned even if some innocent parties are caught in the crossfire.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Rampant assumptions about how the market was going to look for this generation have continuously bitten developers, publishers, and gaming media in the butt since the current gen announcements started. With any luck we're past the point now where devs and publishers and making misinformed decisions about getting in bed with MS - particularly since MS pretty much paid an up front price for TR, threw it to the wolves, and left SE/CD trying to salvage an entire franchise brand in the process.

That's the thing though, by the time this deal was signed, we'd already seen the PS4 pulling strongly ahead, and the TRE sales skewing even more heavily in Playstations favour than normal.

If this had been in the launch window, that'd be one thing, but it was far enough into this generation that the writing was in the wall, and it was still ignored. I mean that was part of the reason there was such an overwhelmingly negative response to the deal.

We've even heard rumours that TR wasn't MS's first choice for exclussivity, and that even EA, their so often co conspirators, turned down the offer. There's no excuse for SE to have not been able to see what everyone both inside and outside the industry could already.

The studio head Mr. Gallagher was definitely on board for that passion, but I was thinking more about the employees without decision making power.

Brian Horton, Game Director at CD was on one of the bigger TR forums yesterday and basically said the studio was proud of their work from a critical standpoint and that the commercial aspect was out of their hands.

Oh yeah, if I ever slag off a studio, assume I mean the guys in charge with power to tell everyone else what to do, not the people directly developing the title.

I know how shitty a job game development can be.

The reson I'm so livid over this deal is because of how much I want to play it after all. I've got nothing but respect for the actual development team.

 

[RexNovis]

So here's a question for everyone since we are on the subject:

Given what we know about how the Rise of the Tomb Raider marketing deal has played out what impact do you think this will have on MS' ability to secure third party exclusive deals in the future?



Personally, I feel like they completely screwed their chances of any other publishers entering into exclusive agreements with them. Which makes their handling of the situation even more bizarre. You'd imagine they would at least seek to save face in front of other publishers to ensure the possibility of future deals. Yet instead they seem to have done everything conceivable to handicap the game's sales potential. Doesn't exactly give a great impression where are other publishers are concerned.

 

[darkwing]

I stopped in Best Buy to do an in store pick up that was not ready on Friday. I checked the same PS4 and XB1 piles only to find zero PS4s and the same an amount of XB1s on the floor.

maybe they restocked it

 

[Elandyll]

I feel bad for SE.
They did everything wrong with RoTR, everything.
Honestly I dont see it doing well on PS4 next year either.

Probably won't.

I can see SE trying to release at full price with all the DLC and calling it the "Definitive Edition", and if so it should rightfully crash and burn as a 1 year old sloppy second, facing (again) the big guns of Fall -and- possibly brand new exclusives like Horizon or TLG.

Honestly, if they were going the temp exclu anyway, they should have done a PC/ PS4 release within 3 months max. Even then it'd be a tough sell, but 1 year?

 

[-MD-]

So here's a question for everyone since we are on the subject:

Given what we know about how the Rise of the Tomb Raider marketing deal has played out what impact do you think this will have on MS' ability to secure third party exclusive deals in the future?



Personally, I feel like they completely screwed their chances of any other publishers entering into exclusive agreements with them. Which makes their handling of the situation even more bizarre. You'd imagine they would at least seek to save face in front of other publishers to ensure the possibility of future deals. Yet instead they seem to have done everything conceivable to handicap the game's sales potential. Doesn't exactly give a great impression where are other publishers are concerned.

Phil already said they'd be pulling back on third party deals going into the future.

 

[Iced Arcade]

Rampant assumptions about how the market was going to look for this generation have continuously bitten developers, publishers, and gaming media in the butt since the current gen announcements started. With any luck we're past the point now where devs and publishers and making misinformed decisions about getting in bed with MS.

This is particularly true since MS pretty much paid an up front price for TR, threw it to the wolves, and left SE/CD trying to salvage an entire franchise brand after the fact. Devs and publisher need to ask themselves whether an upfront pay day is worth risking an entire brand over.

seriously? you haven't seen the multiple TV commercials/banners on websites? or Rise of tomb raider all over the last UFC Rousey match and leading up to the fight, that billboard stunt etc

http://cdn.creativeguerrillamarketi...t-Tortures-Fans-Strapped-To-A-Billboard-1.jpg

http://i.*****************/i/pix/2015/11/15/14/2E6D0E0400000578-3319107-image-a-39_1447599537363.jpg

http://i.*****************/i/pix/20...ured_is_seen_at_the_we-m-50_1447599950802.jpg

 

[Carnby]

maybe they restocked it

Absolutely the XB1s were restocked. But where were the PS4s on this quite Sunday night. In a previous post I said I watched a pile of PS4s disappear in the hour I was there on Friday. In that same hour I barely saw a dent on the XB1 pile.

My point, I believe the Uncharted bundles sold like gang busters at best buy when compared to the XB1.

 

[Neuromancer]

I still think this was all CD's idea in the first place, or at least something they were fully onboard with.

I mean this is the studio that made the last 3 games exclusively for Xbox, leaving the better selling PC and Playstation versions for other studios to port over.

At the very least, I think someone with power over the major decisions of this franchise has had a massive hard on for Microsofts systems for years now, going back at least to Underworld.

Interesting, I didn't realize all this. Well when you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas. I don't feel that bad now.

 

[teiresias]

seriously? you haven't seen the multiple TV commercials/banners on websites? or Rise of tomb raider all over the last UFC Rousey match and leading up to

or this http://cdn.creativeguerrillamarketi...t-Tortures-Fans-Strapped-To-A-Billboard-1.jpg

I don't watch broadcast TV so I don't see commercials and honestly haven't seen any appreciable online advertising. The billboard stunt? I vaguely heard about it, but it was a single billboard, and I doubt most anyone that doesn't follow actual gaming news even knew about it outside that article - they certainly didn't follow it. I'm speaking to the more obvious sent-to-die bundling of the game, and obviously whatever advertising was done wasn't enough to nullify the mismatch with where the fan base actually resides.

 

[zsynqx]

The studio head Mr. Gallagher was definitely on board for that passion, but I was thinking more about the employees without decision making power.

Brian Horton, Game Director at CD was on one of the bigger TR forums yesterday and basically said the studio was proud of their work from a critical standpoint and that the commercial aspect was out of their hands.

This doesn't change my stance that a lesson needs to be learned even if some innocent parties are caught in the crossfire.

Brian Horton seems like a really cool dude and comes across great in interviews imo.

Can't wait to sink my teeth into the game. I just hope the PC release isn't too close to UC4/Das3. January/February would be ideal.

 

[serversurfer]

So here's a question for everyone since we are on the subject:

Given what we know about how the Rise of the Tomb Raider marketing deal has played out what impact do you think this will have on MS' ability to secure third party exclusive deals in the future?



Personally, I feel like they completely screwed their chances of any other publishers entering into exclusive agreements with them. Which makes their handling of the situation even more bizarre. You'd imagine they would at least seek to save face in front of other publishers to ensure the possibility of future deals. Yet instead they seem to have done everything conceivable to handicap the game's sales potential. Doesn't exactly give a great impression where are other publishers are concerned.

Didn't Kagari indicate they were running all over town looking for exclusives, and CD were the only ones willing to sign with them at that point? it seemed pretty clear this was gonna be their last third-party exclusive even before it turned in to a clusterfuck. Besides, Phil recently said they aren't even really gonna make first-party exclusives for the Bone anymore; the audience just isn't there. Their games will also be on Windows now, "when it makes sense," so basically, "always."

 

[ptuck874]

I am hoping this leads to cheap copies of used Uncharted Trilogy.

u know it dude, remember those websites selling last us of codes for 15, in about a month we will start seeing them on there

 

[Gator86]

Quite the contrary.

-Exclusivity( timed) on the console with half the userbase

- launching alongside higher profile titles

- the traditional base on PC/Playstation are likely content to wait for their version to arrive, likely better performing and possibly with DLC included.

Tomb Raider was absolutely sent to die. Fuck Square and MS for doing such a stupid deal. Such a shame for TR considering its one of the best games this year.

 

[eerik9000]

You telling us that 15mil sales coming from "tier 2-3" countries?

Not necessarily tier 2 and 3, just anywhere outside United States and United Kingdom.

Main reason they don't go after those markets because they have nothing that appeals to those markets.

That's what I'm talking about. They are hoping that Halo 5 sells their console in China as well as it does in the US. While they have big exclusives coming from European and Japanese developers, Quantum Break and Scalebound, to me they feel like they're aimed at the same American audience as all their other games.

 

[RexNovis]

Didn't Kagari indicate they were running all over town looking for exclusives, and CD were the only ones willing to sign with them at that point? it seemed pretty clear this was gonna be their last third-party exclusive even before it turned in to a clusterfuck. Besides, Phil recently said they aren't even really gonna make first-party exclusives for the Bone anymore; the audience just isn't there. Their games will also be on Windows now, "when it makes sense," so basically, "always."

Well yea that's what he is saying (vis a vis Windows 10 cross platform releases) but that has yet to happen for their biggest titles. We are going to start seeing Free to Play and smaller budget games doing cross platform releases across XB1 and W10 next year but that wasn't the case for Halo 5 despite Spencer talking cross platform support up so much in the months leading up to release. Do you really think the next Gears title is going to release day and date on PC as well?

 

[boredandlazy]

Tomb Raider was absolutely sent to die. Fuck Square and MS for doing such a stupid deal. Such a shame for TR considering its one of the best games this year.

Yep, even people who haven't played it are calling it their game of the year.

 

[Andy Believes]

I still think this was all CD's idea in the first place, or at least something they were fully onboard with.

I mean this is the studio that made the last 3 games exclusively for Xbox, leaving the better selling PC and Playstation versions for other studios to port over.

At the very least, I think someone with power over the major decisions of this franchise has had a massive hard on for Microsofts systems for years now, going back at least to Underworld.

This... This is exactly what I was speculating in another thread...

 

[RedNumberFive]

So here's a question for everyone since we are on the subject:

Given what we know about how the Rise of the Tomb Raider marketing deal has played out what impact do you think this will have on MS' ability to secure third party exclusive deals in the future?



Personally, I feel like they completely screwed their chances of any other publishers entering into exclusive agreements with them. Which makes their handling of the situation even more bizarre. You'd imagine they would at least seek to save face in front of other publishers to ensure the possibility of future deals. Yet instead they seem to have done everything conceivable to handicap the game's sales potential. Doesn't exactly give a great impression where are other publishers are concerned.

This whole situation is going to be a master level case study in boneheaded business decisions.

 

[Gator86]

Yep, even people who haven't played it are calling it their game of the year.

Maybe? Personally, I beat it last week finishing it almost 100% save a few relics.

 

[dragonyeuw]

Tomb Raider was absolutely sent to die. Fuck Square and MS for doing such a stupid deal. Such a shame for TR considering its one of the best games this year.

Yep, and when it arrives on ps4 next year, even though it will be 'new' to the ps4 userbase it will still be considered an old game by then, so alot of people are going to be expecting it for less than $60 and may even wait for it to be $20-30. Yep, they fucked up bigtime and it was called when the deal was first announced.

 

[Andy Believes]

Nah. I put all the blame on SE. CD can't pen deals like this. It's most likely MS went to SE to talk the particulars.

Anything CD said after that was them going along with what their publisher had already done.

That is true, but SE would have reached out to them for their opinion and I think that it is also possible that CD were already onboard when MS approached SE and may have swayed SE's decision.

 

[Andy Believes]

maybe they restocked it

Same thought came to my mind.

 

[boredandlazy]

Maybe? Personally, I beat it last week finishing it almost 100% save a few relics.

I wasn't having a dig at you or anything, I was referencing a post in the thread about sales for the game where someone said they felt sorry for the game not doing well, and even though they hadn't played it, it had their vote for game of the year.

 

[Andy Believes]

Phil already said they'd be pulling back on third party deals going into the future.

Maybe with TR preorder numbers, MS could see the writing on the wall and stopped caring. So, now they have decided that it is not worth it.

SSO also did not get them the returns they expected. Ori was the only one that did I think.

 

[CLEEK]

Phil already said they'd be pulling back on third party deals going into the future.

Starting with Tomb Raider!

 

[Gator86]

I wasn't having a dig at you or anything, I was referencing a post in the thread about sales for the game where someone said they felt sorry for the game not doing well, and even though they hadn't played it, it had their vote for game of the year.

Haha that's a lot of faith in a game to not play it. Sorry if my post came off as defensive. People can be eager to get into the console wars stuff in sales threads.

 

[Nightengale]

Maybe with TR preorder numbers, MS could see the writing on the wall and stopped caring. So, now they have decided that it is not worth it.

SSO also did not get them the returns they expected. Ori was the only one that did I think.

SSO isn't a 3rd party deal though. It's a 1st party deal with generous terms when it comes to IP ownership.

 

[Andy Believes]

SSO isn't a 3rd party deal though. It's a 1st party deal with generous terms when it comes to IP ownership.

I understand what you are saying, but if SSO IP is not owned by MS, it is 3rd party. There is no stopping the devs from bringing the sequel out to other platforms. It is 3rd party with exclusivity for the 1st game and maybe (just maybe) right of first refusal.

The Order 1886 on the other hand is a 1st party because the IP is owned by Sony. But since it is developed by a 3rd party studio, I think the term going around is 2nd party. The devs cannot take the game sequels to other platforms.

 

[squallheart]

You know, about that Target showing the biggest decline in Black Friday sales they reported. I wouldn't worry too much about Target. I bet they did gangbusters the week before Black Friday.


They had crazy crazy deals with the 20% off toys, 10 % off wishlist, 15% off your registry, and another 15% off your order I found online. The 40% off of pajamas. They had like 20% off kitchen items. Their "deals week" leading up to Black Friday seemed very effective, at least anecdotally. They also had the Buy 2 get 1 free on Board Games, and 3 of those codes stacked with Board Games. I was able to stack ALL of these coupon codes, on ALL of my toy purchases (they all didn't work for electronics, but I bought my games at Best Buy). I know on Black Friday, toys are a huge seller. And the fact that you could stack all these coupons didn't go unnoticed on deals sites like Slick Deals and CAG. That is where I found out about it.
I went to Target several days last week to simply pick up all the crap I ordered online, and my 2 stores seemed very busy!

Since Target takes off the 20% first, then the 15% off whats left, then the 15% of whats left, then 10% off of what is left, I averaged out to about 40% off my total purchases for my kids. Those prices were better than anywhere else on Black Friday for things like the Orbotix Ollie, Sphero Sprk, Mip Robot, etc. I got about $40 off of each of those items, and it was glorious.

Yeah I work at target and we've been swamped since Thursday. The funny thing target screwed themselves with stupid decisions one being hey let's take down doorbuster items and back stock them -. -. When I can run on Friday we still had doorbuster items until 7pm. Kept finding guitar hero bundles and beats in the back. We did sell out of ps4s thought. What is weird is the bundle went back up to 349, I think it's because the 15% (or 10 can't remember) coupon that's dropping on Monday.

 

[3rdamention]

Sony just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Black Friday (I'm an expert), but supply and demand are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in Europe where you can become successful by undershipping and launching late. If you undership over in America, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the American public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase PS4, nor will they purchase any other console. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Sony has signaled the death of the consoles with this move.

Sony, publicly apologize and ship more consoles to America or you can kiss the entire consoles industry goodbye.

Spoiler

i tried

Holy Shit, lol. I love it, well played!

 

[3rdamention]

It's becoming really apparent that Sony should have shipped more PS4s. There's gotta be a lot of disappointed people going to the store looking for a PS4 but not seeing any. At least some of those people are going to pick up Xboxes because there's no other choice.

Its funny you say this, because if you follow some of the Xbox figure heads and their fanatical poster boy, you would be led to believe there isn't a single Xbox One in North America.

Seriously, they are reporting the Xbox One is sold out everywhere. So like was said before, lets wait for sales to see who really cleaned house this Black Friday before worrying about stock numbers. We already know that Sony shipped more stock than Microsoft did this quarter based on their quarterlies. However, Sony is probably shipping more units to different markets. And Sony has been very clear this gen, that they aren't as big on NPD numbers as they are into WW numbers. They are playing the worldwide market right now.

It will be "interesting" to see what is reported over the next couple of weeks!

Yeah I work at target and we've been swamped since Thursday. The funny thing target screwed themselves with stupid decisions one being hey let's take down doorbuster items and back stock them -. -. When I can run on Friday we still had doorbuster items until 7pm. Kept finding guitar hero bundles and beats in the back. We did sell out of ps4s thought. What is weird is the bundle went back up to 349, I think it's because the 15% (or 10 can't remember) coupon that's dropping on Monday.

That is a good point, that 15% Cyber Monday coupon would bring the PS4 back down to under $299. So that makes a lot of sense.

 

[chadskin]

We already know that Sony shipped more stock than Microsoft did this quarter based on their quarterlies.

based on their quarterlies

quarterlies

quarter lies

Crapgamer, is that you?

Spoiler

;p

 

[finalflame]

PS4 has too much momentum. Dunno why we still bother with these threads, the sales "winner" of the generation has already been defined. Both are fine consoles, but PS4 will outsell XBO during their lifetimes, plain and simple.

 

[3rdamention]

I still think this was all CD's idea in the first place, or at least something they were fully onboard with.

I mean this is the studio that made the last 3 games exclusively for Xbox, leaving the better selling PC and Playstation versions for other studios to port over.

At the very least, I think someone with power over the major decisions of this franchise has had a massive hard on for Microsofts systems for years now, going back at least to Underworld.

It is hard to disagree with this. We will probably never know. However, whether CD had a say in it or not, they went "full moneyhat" when it came to their PR statements and defending the deal, wanting MS to help make it the best TR it could be. They never really backed down and owned this exclusivity deal from the minute it was announced.

I know, I know, what were they supposed to say? Well, first they shouldn't say that PS4 owners can play the Temples of Osiris or whatever. I think the way everyone defended this deal on both sides, under a cloud of secrecy about its time limit, and choice words to keep the length of the deal a secret, actually did more damage than the deal itself.

 

[3rdamention]

Crapgamer, is that you?

Spoiler

;p

Damn, I was like, did I post all of that? But I see what you did there, the spelling, lol,

 

[Shenmue]

I still think this was all CD's idea in the first place, or at least something they were fully onboard with.

I mean this is the studio that made the last 3 games exclusively for Xbox, leaving the better selling PC and Playstation versions for other studios to port over.

At the very least, I think someone with power over the major decisions of this franchise has had a massive hard on for Microsofts systems for years now, going back at least to Underworld.

This.

I blame SE and CD the same in this. Hasn't CD been the one that keeps trumpeting the MS is a great partner and all this stuff?