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Parks and Recreation S4 |OT| Vote for Leslie Knope. Let's make it happen.

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big ander

Member
Cornballer said:
- Onion A|V Club: Showrunner Michael Schur on building Parks And Recreation’s fourth season (Part 1 of 5)
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Woo, glad they're doing one for this.
Supermanisdead said:
Just caught up with the last few episodes. Pretty disappointing season. The only bright spots were anything related to Entertainment 720 (and Adonis Chris Traeger). And good lord, April is a terrible, terrible, terrible character. Like stop with her already. She is awkward and emotionless and they shouldn't try to write any kind of emotion into her lines. The pet adoption episode... like wth.
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april hasn't once been emotionless. that's the trick with her character.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Kandinsky said:
Less Andy and Chris for next season please.
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Ludicrous.

The storyline about him becoming a cop is what I look forward to the most. I really hope we get to see pepper spray training.
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
I'm enjoying the walkthrough, but I think Schur's insight and emphasis on the character themes only goes to show how subservient the actual narrative was to them this season. The entire don't-date-your-coworker plot was factually absurd. The entire city council election was totally absurd. The parts where Schur is enthusiastically talking about character beats, he sells the decisions very well. The rare times he discusses plotting, it goes to show how bare and stupid it was.

RE: The Trial of Leslie Knope:
But the reality is, that is a standard rule—that people in positions of authority cannot date their inferiors or vice versa in government—and it’s just not done. You can’t legislate relationships, but in the case where two people wanted to date, they would have to be put in a situation where one of them wasn’t in any way reporting to the other one. And there’s a very good reason for this, obviously: The government is entrusted with the will of the people, and they’re paid by the public that they serve, and if favorable behavior is given to people because of a personal relationship, that’s not what the taxpayers deserve.
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I really think this is overthinking it. While Leslie nominally reported to the city manager, there's nothing in the show that ever really established direct positions of superiority or inferiority. The "conflict of interest" involved in having the City Manager's office decide funding priorities is not really any worse with Leslie and Ben's romantic relationship than it is with Chris and... anyone's friendship.

In fact, to me, the whole thing just called back to that plot from Season 1 where Leslie eats the spiced meets and drinks the wine from a gift basket she got, but since the gift basket's value was over $20, she wasn't allowed to take it. And then she goes to the disciplinary committee and turns herself in and wants them to investigate her and falls on her sword, and they basically say "Look, you broke a rule, and you shouldn't have, but really who gives a shit? No one was hurt here." and it's supposed to show how Leslie's commitment to the integrity of the system might be a little bit naive versus how real people work.

But this time around, the plot goes the other way, and there's no sense of self awareness about it. Not that I'd expect direct continuity, but I think it exposes how the Ben-Leslie thing was not something that organically came up as a part of the plot, but rather plotting that got shoehorned to serve the character arcs.

Then, when they're talking about the Ice Skating Speech Fiasco thing:
In “The Trial Of Leslie Knope,” we worked really hard to try to show that he’s not a bad person at all. He’s just a person who has a lot of integrity, and sort of like Leslie, he has a deep belief that government is a sacred thing, that you have to behave properly and correctly, and that you shouldn’t betray the public trust. He had no vendetta against Leslie or Ben—he loves Leslie and Ben very much. We worked hard to make that delineation, and we wanted to reinforce it in this episode by showing it’s not just that he thinks Leslie and Ben are good government employees—it’s that he cares for them, especially Ben, with whom he has worked for a dozen years. Despite the fact that they’re different people, and they don’t always see eye-to-eye on everything, there’s a real friendship there that Chris works hard at.
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I think that shows what they were going for, but also why it didn't work.

And then my other main objection which is that the City Council plot is so out of whack it's absurd (as it was on Modern Family, as it was on Parenthood, as I'm sure any political plot will be on any show ever):
AVC: Was there any worry that this was overkill for a city-council race in a small Indiana town?

MS: No, I didn’t worry about that. It’s a little bit cartoon-y, but his family is the Kennedys of Pawnee—they’re the richest, most powerful, most famous family. They own the only real, gigantic business in town, which is responsible for most people’s employment. As a spoiled, entitled rich kid who has decided that he’s going to run for city council to impress his dad, it’s pretty realistic that his name would be everywhere. If you’re starting with a 70-point lead, and you have name recognition, you keep your foot on the gas, you put your name everywhere, you obliterate any idea that there’s competition—which is why he says to Leslie, “I’m pretty sure I’m running unopposed” at the beginning. [Laughs.] It’s a comedy show, and obviously we have to make it funny, but I don’t think it’s that outrageous that that would be his strategy. “Everybody knows my name, so all I have to do is put my name everywhere and let people know that I’m running, and then everyone will vote for me.”
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I don't think Bobby Newport was unrealistic. Plenty of small towns have dynasties that basically buy their way into control of a city.

I think it was unrealistic to follow that by having Leslie get a campaign bus, having shadowy advisors who kingmake the campaign, having 24/7 media coverage of CAMPAIGN ISSUES in the media, having these huge campaign events, and doing this all apparently for literally one city council seat. It wasn't even a general election. You're looking at an event that's probably going to get 25-40% turnout. In a city of 100k, an at-large city council by-election is looking at maybe 10k-20k votes total. The dollar to vote ratio is insane. The idea that voters are so engaged that their hearts and minds are warmed by a thorough debate of the issues is crazy. In real life, Bobby Newport would have just steamrolled over Leslie if you assume he had that kind of name and money advantage. At that level, it's not even possible to really have a grand vision for improving the town.

In fact, in real life, a city council that size is generally entirely free of issues, or if there are issues, they'll break down across a very simple "development/business/make the city bigger versus heritage/culture/keep the city small" factions.

I mean, this is all wasted effort on my part. They did what they did. The end result had some highlights even though I think it was the wrong choice. It's clear they think first towards their characters and only second towards the stories they tell. Hopefully they make better choices next season. But I guess reading this stuff only serves to galvanize how I felt about the season.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
I really was never struck by the outsized-ness of the campaign. I stopped worrying about absurd insanity on the show when Tammy II whipped Tom into a library bookshelf. This is just an extension of that Simpsons logic.
 
D

dead souls

Member
Great post Stump. It covers a lot of my issues with this season.

I just hope the show gets back to being funny next year, because this season was really lacking compared to seasons 2&3.
 
B

BertramCooper

Banned
The show has a pretty serious problem with scale. Pawnee seems to grow and shrink constantly to suit the writers' needs.

It's not a deal breaker, but it's probably my single biggest complaint about the show.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
BertramCooper said:
The show has a pretty serious problem with scale. Pawnee seems to grow and shrink constantly to suit the writers' needs.

It's not a deal breaker, but it's probably my single biggest complaint about the show.
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Yeah, like Springfield. It's weird that people have a problem with this sort of thing when it's live action, even if it's live action that has featured Jean Ralphio hiring NBA pros to dunk on.
 
B

BertramCooper

Banned
BenjaminBirdie said:
Yeah, like Springfield. It's weird that people have a problem with this sort of thing when it's live action, even if it's live action that has featured Jean Ralphio hiring NBA pros to dunk on.
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P&R is a sitcom, but it's one with a relatively strong basis in reality. It's wacky, but it's not a fantasy. And since it deals heavily with government, the constantly shifting size of the city creates some significant issues of logic.

It has nothing to do with it not being an animated show. It has everything to do with it being a sitcom centered around the world of government and politics. I still think Pawnee is a great setting with some wonderful characters, but when the city itself plays such a prominent role within the show, the inconsistencies really start to irk.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
BertramCooper said:
P&R is a sitcom, but it's one with a relatively strong basis in reality. It's wacky, but it's not a fantasy. And since it deals heavily with government, the constantly shifting size of the city creates some significant issues of logic.

It has nothing to do with it not being an animated show. It has everything to do with it being a sitcom centered around the world of government and politics. I still think Pawnee is a great setting with some wonderful characters, but when the city itself plays such a prominent role within the show, the inconsistencies really start to irk.
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I hear what you're saying. I'm probably more tolerant because so much of my favorite comedy plays with that sort of thing (Simpsons' Springfield/Scharpling & Wurster's Newbridge, NJ)
 
B

big ander

Member
I'm getting why people didn't like the season. I am. But I still love it, for precisely the reasons others turned away. I like that the political plot was exaggerated but smart. I like that Pawnee's size is fluid. These are the things I want in a comedy, and Parks and Recreation's been giving that to me time and time again. Season 4 nearly matched 2 and 3 in quality.

In fact I think I'll like it even more on rewatch. Knowing that the Ann/Tom relationship is intended to be flighty, I'll enjoy it just for the humor.

MS: It’s nice that she shares that secret, because that story would have been hard to tell if there weren’t one person Ron could talk to about his problem. For a while, we had a different Duke Silver story planned for the year. Leslie was going to get a significant campaign contribution from someone named Duke Silver. And there was going to be an ethics investigation into who this person was, because they didn’t have a home address, and someone was going to think it was fraud or something. They were going to track him down, and the secret of Duke Silver was going to be revealed to everybody. The idea was that all of Leslie’s friends have volunteered to help her in the campaign, but that also made their lives open books, and Ron’s most shameful secret was going to be writ large. We went pretty far down the road of trying to break that episode, but we never cracked it. At the end of the day, Ron cares a lot about this, but it’s not like he murdered someone or robbed a bank. Still, it had been a long time since Duke Silver made an appearance, so we wanted to work him in somehow.
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Glad this didn't happen. Ron needs to have some secrets.

Schur's last answer sums up why I like the show: it's sincere.
 
D

Darth Pinche

Member
I was at Comic-con and at the Ironman 3 presentation I saw Jean Ralphio go sit in the studio reserved area. He must have been there for Entertainment 720.

tumblr_m7c6tnQpyQ1qbh8ix.gif
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
big ander said:
I'm getting why people didn't like the season. I am. But I still love it, for precisely the reasons others turned away. I like that the political plot was exaggerated but smart. I like that Pawnee's size is fluid. These are the things I want in a comedy, and Parks and Recreation's been giving that to me time and time again. Season 4 nearly matched 2 and 3 in quality.

In fact I think I'll like it even more on rewatch. Knowing that the Ann/Tom relationship is intended to be flighty, I'll enjoy it just for the humor.


Glad this didn't happen. Ron needs to have some secrets.

Schur's last answer sums up why I like the show: it's sincere.
Click to expand...

Duke Silver's involvement in the campaign theme song may be my favorite part of last year. Andy's reaction to hearing the saxophone was classic.
 
E

evilromero

Member
Just watched through season three on Netflix and I'm in love with this show. Great characters and damn, Ron is my hero. I was kind of disappointed after I finished season four of Breaking Bad, but this P&R definitely perked me back up. Very good.
 
R

rexor0717

Member
So I just blasted through the entire show. I found season 1 hard to watch, but once I hit season 2, I loved it. All the characters are amazing. Season 4 finale really could have been a series finale for me.

Darth Pinche said:
I was at Comic-con and at the Ironman 3 presentation I saw Jean Ralphio go sit in the studio reserved area. He must have been there for Entertainment 720.

tumblr_m7c6tnQpyQ1qbh8ix.gif
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My secret favorite character.
 
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