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The Demise Of Guys? (TED Talk)
- Thread starter Plywood
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Shadow of the BEAST
Banned
Men of the 50s where much better of than modern men. Atleast here in sweden.
Men of the fifties could get a bread winning " skilled trade style" job straight out of highschool. start a family with one salary. Buy a house and pay it of within 20 years. And save some money on top of that.
Modern swedish men, if they manage to finish highschool, dont enter the workforce until they are fucking 26-27, with a lifte time worth of debt, and even more debt if they want decent living accommodation. But even more importantly men than ever will never have a bread winning job. Never marry a women. Will live alone for the rest of their lives. A life which they fill with cronic masturbation, alcohol consumption and video-games.
Men of the fifties could get a bread winning " skilled trade style" job straight out of highschool. start a family with one salary. Buy a house and pay it of within 20 years. And save some money on top of that.
Modern swedish men, if they manage to finish highschool, dont enter the workforce until they are fucking 26-27, with a lifte time worth of debt, and even more debt if they want decent living accommodation. But even more importantly men than ever will never have a bread winning job. Never marry a women. Will live alone for the rest of their lives. A life which they fill with cronic masturbation, alcohol consumption and video-games.
'Having a penis' helps you in standardised tests?
'Having a penis' clearly defines your role and responsibilities in society?
I think you're being a little simplistic. When I say 'a little', I mean 'a lot'. We know that boys (particularly working class) are struggling in schools, are you suggesting that those boys have somehow lost their penises?
What exactly do you mean by struggling? just because they have a lower pass rate than girls?
There are higher rates of behavioural difficulties and special needs in boys. They're also roundly out-performed by girls at all levels of education. They are 'struggling'. That's ignoring the whole 'what does it mean to be a man in 2012 and how do I do it?' angle.
Apophenia Overload
Member
I was hoping to discuss the saturation of our culture in novelty and instantaneous information and entertainment, not wallow in gender self-pity.
That is not struggling. Girls are just performing better than boys on average in certain standardized tests. I wouldn't call female sprinters struggling to run just because they perform slower than male sprinters on average.
HarryHengst
Member
I do think that it would be better if schools had more male teachers, but since people automatically assumes that any man who works with children is a pedophile im afraid thats not possible now.
And education in general is just weird. We spend the first few years of a childs life teaching them to walk and talk, and after that we spend like 15 years to teach them to sit still and shut up.
And education in general is just weird. We spend the first few years of a childs life teaching them to walk and talk, and after that we spend like 15 years to teach them to sit still and shut up.
The gender gap is widening here in England. Widening. It's not staying the same, it hasn't always been like this. The gender gap is widening. Boys are falling off. All evidence points to there being a problem.
Does education favour girls?
Gender gap widens in record-breaking year.
(These aren't supposed to be exhaustive proof, just the first couple of relevant links on BBC news)
I could really do with the missus making these posts, not me. She's a secondary school teacher and it was her that drew my attention to the issue. Having said that, I'm surprised at the resistance. I can only assume you don't read much educational news.
robertsan21
Member
well I am happy to say that I am an old fashion man!
I love having sex with women.
I love whiskey.
I love fly fishing, fishing in general and hunting.
I can without a doubt not shower for a week if I have to.
I am always out in the wild backcountry fly fishing, growing a beard and drinking coffe.
I love having sex with women.
I love whiskey.
I love fly fishing, fishing in general and hunting.
I can without a doubt not shower for a week if I have to.
I am always out in the wild backcountry fly fishing, growing a beard and drinking coffe.
Since men dominate the tech and entertainment industries the idea they are poisoning the well seems a bit off, also the assumption men are specifically larger users of entertainment seems a bit questionable.
I think the great error is the assumption average success between sexes will converge, we will not. Men are far more variable in our traits and this variability is expressed in IQ as well (imperfect measurement but still useful). Men have substantially longer tails, so we have more geniuses and gifted people, but we also have plenty of morons. Assuming no frictions like sexism etc. Men would still have lower high school graduation rates, weaker college statistics but still over represent themselves on Nobel prizes, CEO lists, top professions etc. If women dominate the modal point (and they do) and we proxy IQ for success then women will average out better, but men will still retain the prestigious leadership we've had just diluted a bit by the fewer but still numerous amount of highly intelligent women.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...re-still-be-sex-difference-even-when-there-is
Social explanations tend to focus on observed trends that are too often symptomatic than causal, and I find the idea that men and women are substituional rather than complementary distasteful. So long as productivity is rising for both groups we are all better off.
I think the great error is the assumption average success between sexes will converge, we will not. Men are far more variable in our traits and this variability is expressed in IQ as well (imperfect measurement but still useful). Men have substantially longer tails, so we have more geniuses and gifted people, but we also have plenty of morons. Assuming no frictions like sexism etc. Men would still have lower high school graduation rates, weaker college statistics but still over represent themselves on Nobel prizes, CEO lists, top professions etc. If women dominate the modal point (and they do) and we proxy IQ for success then women will average out better, but men will still retain the prestigious leadership we've had just diluted a bit by the fewer but still numerous amount of highly intelligent women.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...re-still-be-sex-difference-even-when-there-is
Social explanations tend to focus on observed trends that are too often symptomatic than causal, and I find the idea that men and women are substituional rather than complementary distasteful. So long as productivity is rising for both groups we are all better off.
True and good post.
I don't know why some are so invested in maintaining that there is no problem.
HarryHengst
Member
This is also a problem. Porn, for example, can be a big problem and completely skews over how people view sexuality and how to behave in the bedroom. Hell, just see this thread where GAFfers try to stop watching porn and see how many fail within a few days. But there are also succes stories where people feel much better once they are losing the almost addiction to porn.
Hell, its widening here too. More women heading to college than men, more women in the workforce have college degrees than men.
Also, earlier, this quote from that article posted by Devo:
Truth is that if you direct school resources to focus more on girls, as was started in the late 80's, then some of those resources HAD to have come from somewhere else. Teacher attention and school resources are finite. When education was focused on righting the gender gap, it righted it towards the other direction. I don't necessarily have a problem with that, given that gap between men and women in education needed to be fixed, but the resistance to right it the other way is baffling to me, as much as the position that some of these reforms that have resulted in girls not just catching up, but surpassing boys, suddenly are gender neutral when discussing putting some of a focus back on boys.
I feel like they are both well worn around here.
Increased "novelty" and instantaneous access to culture and entertainment is wholly positive as it removes frictions, raises productivity and is far more reactive to needs and wants than ever before. Embracing restriction or some sort of "time tax" as what allowed men to do better is a bit silly no? Certainly almost impossible to prove empirically.
Yes this thread is about race.
HarryHengst
Member
To be honest, i wouldnt be surprised if this only became a problem once white boys started having more problems.
Funny you should say that.
Thing is, so what? Should we ignore the issues that white males face today because historically we've faced less challenges than everyone else? That sounds deeply unfair to me and smacks of 'revenge' almost.
Honestly, if nobody gives a fuck about white males, why should white males continue to give a fuck about everyone else?
shanshan310
Member
Pretty much what I think. Although others on GAF with disagree, I'm sure, men and women are extremely different, behave different, and have different qualities, strengths and weaknesses. Politically correct bullshit is part of the problem with people wanting equality between apples and oranges.
The guy with black shaggy hair has a hormonal disorder, not the best example. OH SHIT PEOPLE HAVE THE FREEDOM TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES AND STAND OUT NOW! How is that a bad thing again? How about I pick some pictures of manly looking women and pretend that's representative of society as a whole. smh.
Men and women only "behave different(ly)" because they are forced into societal boxes. Yes they have phyiscal differences, but personalities vary person to person. Making this big divide of "its men vs. women" is only making it worse.
I can do as many as 15 vids a session easily.
Damn, I'm white. I guess I should just sit in a corner and shut my mouth because I own the fucking world and have caused all it's troubles.
HarryHengst
Member
But white males already dont give a fuck about everyone else, except other white males, preferably rich ones? See also: politics.
But no, it shouldnt be ignored. However, it would be nice if white males would pay more attention to non-white peoples problems. Its pretty shameful to ignore decades of problems with black youths, but now white boys are having trouble its suddenly a big thing that needs to be solved now.
Dude, read a fucking newspaper.
I can't read this as anything other than racist. You're literally tarring the entire group due to the actions of a select few powerful people.
If we were ignoring minority issues, things would be getting worse, not better. After all, we have all the power, don't we?
Is it really so difficult to see that a group needs support if that group isn't a visible minority?
God I miss dodge ball... I remember the day the removed it from my elementary school, a dark day in the history of my life indeed.
I take it you have something against white males in particular?
Judging from this pic - it sounds like "men' got better!
HarryHengst
Member
No, i just have a hard time feeling sorry for them (and im one of them myself). Also, i dislike that suddenly its such a big problem because it hits white boys. Doesnt mean its not a problem, its just really telling about who are considered really important in this world: white males.
Trent Strong
Banned
If modern males were addicted to novelty then they wouldn't be playing so many video games, because vidya games are just the same shit over and over again.
1) You sound like a white Uncle Tom.
2) Blaming little white boys currently in school for whatever you perceive previous generations of white males to have done is bizarre.
shanshan310
Member
Zing!
I don't think this is a solely male problem at all, but something happening to society as a whole.
You don't get it at all, do you?
It's been a 'big problem' for years and most of this time we have been working to correct it. Whilst doing so we have shifted resources away from a group that were perceived as doing fine on their own. Thing is, we've shifted so many resources that now that group is suffering too.
You live in a dream world if you think that white males have totally ignored the issues that minorities face for the last 50 years.
This topic isn't even a race issue, ffs, it's about gender. I'm as guilty of forgetting that as you are, however.
Perhaps I'm wrong and I didn't read something, but this seems to be talking about males in general right? What does race have to do with it?
Edit: Also everything SmokyDave said.
It's not about "white boys"... What are you talking about?
you set forth this premise that no-one cared about non-white boys and now everyone cares that it's happening to white boys. It's just not true. Just because there is a fucking thread on NeoGaf doesn't suddenly mean that all white people have rolled up their sleeves and decided to fix the educational system or whatever.
Black men face all the same issues as before, with this one added. Why does it matter that people recognize it if some of the people involved are what? Read the goddamn OP.
Salacious Crumb
Junior Member
"We shouldn't bother our selves with a few kids under performing in school when there are kids starving to death around the world"
A person can be concerned with and talk about more than one issue at once. 'white males' (as if anyone is even making that distinction) under performing hasn't knocked down the importance of any other social issue.
Bu-Bu- I saw a thread on GAF today so that means it's the only thing the world cares about suddenly.
Trent Strong
Banned
Yeah, you'd think women would be just as addicted to novelty in the internet age as men.
Spiffy_1st
Member
This sounds like something aimed directly at me, I've turned down spending time with girls for video games, but I don't see why that's a problem if I'm happy.
shanshan310
Member
Anyone have a link to the TED talk that covers the demonization of young boys in primary/elementary education?
Edit: Haven't found it yet but this is relevant and interesting too.
http://www.ted.com/talks/ali_carr_chellman_gaming_to_re_engage_boys_in_learning.html
Edit: Haven't found it yet but this is relevant and interesting too.
http://www.ted.com/talks/ali_carr_chellman_gaming_to_re_engage_boys_in_learning.html
soundscream
Member
Are you currently employed?
Yes?
But its so fun! Aslong as I get grades and get a degree, Im not gonna spend time chasing women around.
Imma be here and enjoy GAF, movies and vidya.
Also that pic is awful, we he implying only real men go to war?
soundscream
Member
Well there goes my theory....
Oh but you once had it, so some of the magical ness of dodge ball rubbed off on you.
Dodge ball is awesome, it makes you a man and puts hair on your chest, its a fact.
Also, a fairer comparison would be men in the army with men in the army! We could do this with any random selection of people. There has always been and always will be a wide variety of people in any given culture. It's massively problematic to hold up one archetype as the one all people must conform to.
Long time no see!
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