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[kaname-san]

How about spending less time arguing with people who aren't racist and instead do what the article suggests?

I can direct you to some message boards that will love to have a conversation with you.

Have frank conversations with them? In my experience, that doesn't work.

 

[DragonSworne]

Have frank conversations with them? In my experience, that doesn't work.

Same here.

 

[EdibleKnife]

I didn't say he did. I meant its more likely to happen again. the more these fringe groups of racists feel attacked, the more justified they feel and the more likely they are to do extreme shit.

And I don't plan on modifying my behavior for the sake of groups of people who exist to paint my life as valueless and my existence as dangerous. Again, Dylann Roof, the KKK, they don't go after NeoGaf posters who call them racist. They attack innocent people. All black peoples in existence could never engage in these conversations again and just like in antebellum times when black people were literally under the beck and call of white people, white supremacy would still exist because they are an inherently absurd organization that survives on the idea that they are superior. If they do extreme shit in response to my intolerance of their ideals, they are the ones who should face all the consequences and criticism. I'm allowed to my humanity.

 

[Beefy]

I think people are equating the OP with something it's not really addressing.

No, having a dialogue with someone who just used a racial slur towards you is pointless.

Having dialogue with someone who might have racial views, either based on ignorance or stereotypes though? There's probably value there.

But take the Trump thing, calling people who voted for Trump as racist, or accepting racism isn't fruitful. Most of them voted for him in spite of the racist or misogynistic things he said, not because of them. People are going to vote for what puts them in a better position, or at least think put's them in a better position. People switched from blue to red for economic reasons.

If a person votes for Trump they have to accept they at the very least enabled him and people like him views.

 

[Enzom21]

I didn't say it was wrong did I? I keep saying it's not helpful. Do it if you want, just understand the situation isn't getting better from that.

Yeah sure you're not. At least own your bullshit.
So that Dylan Roof post? The black people he murdered talked to him and they were nice to him and he still killed them.
Did that being nice to a racist nonsense you've been spewing work out for them?

 

[molnizzle]

Tools of psychology that requires people of color to bend over backwards to reach bigots and racists that think lesser of them?

Yea tailor your message to the liberal and moderate whites.

And it sounds like you didn't read this thread or the article or study.

Is anybody in this thread actually telling PoC what they need to do or blaming them for the election? If anything, this does seem like a message to liberal and moderate whites. Leading up to the election I would get into political FB arguments all the time and routinely end up singling people out as people racists or bigots. It's helpful for me to know that this does more harm than good and that there are potentially better ways I could actually reach people.

 

[Frozenprince]

I think people are equating the OP with something it's not really addressing.

No, having a dialogue with someone who just used a racial slur towards you is pointless.

Having dialogue with someone who might have racial views, either based on ignorance or stereotypes though? There's probably value there.

But take the Trump thing, calling people who voted for Trump as racist, or accepting racism isn't fruitful. Most of them voted for him in spite of the racist or misogynistic things he said, not because of them. People are going to vote for what puts them in a better position, or at least think put's them in a better position. People switched from blue to red for economic reasons.

Which makes them implicitly bigoted. Not explicitly.

The distinction is window dressing.

 

[R0ckman]

I have a wife who is an apologist somewhat and it gives me a bit of understanding to the insanity mentioned in this thread.

What some fear is a minority backlash where all whites are targetted regardless of their stance. At least thats what seems to be the hint I catch in our chats.

 

[Maximo]

Having been raised in a muslim country that was also pretty ethnically homogeneous, I had some pretty poor views on women and no experience with other races, which lead to me saying ignorant stuff quite frequently. When I moved away from the country, over the years, my liberal friends always showed me understanding and taught me where I was wrong. Thanks to their patience and compassion I'm exceedingly liberal and completely changed my views and I'm ashamed of who I used to be. I even participate in feminist and anti-racial activism. I've been called a SJW many times online. However, as a result of my experiences, I also recognize that not every person is inherently bad, and I try to educate people if I can. The other day, a coworker of mine said some messed up sexist thing. I could have called him out very blatantly, but that would just make him not talk to me again. Instead I struck up a conversation and asked him why he thinks that way, and it was soon clear that he realized he said something wrong and he apologized. Now we have more rapport than before, and I also have a platform to talk to him more and change his mind on issues. If I had just shut him down at that moment, he would just get angry at me.

I understand that this is kind of a best case scenario and not how it always works, and I get that some people are pretty disingenuous and don't want to even talk about it. Hell, I've received my own share of discrimination despite being white passing because of my origin. But when I try to start a dialogue with people I usually get some footing with some of them. I think there's a case-by-case line to walk in these situations and there is no singular solution, but just shouting at people over it has a near zero chance of achieving anything, whereas talking to them and trying to educate them actually has a chance of success, however low it is.

Really great post btw.

 

[Frozenprince]

I have a wife who is an apologist somewhat and it gives me a bit of understanding to the insanity mentioned in this thread.

What some fear is a minority backlash where all whites are targetted regardless of their stance. At least thats what seems to be the hint I catch in our chats.

...

Your wife has some fucking issues if she thinks there's gonna be a fucking race war.

 

[Enzom21]

Is anybody in this thread actually telling PoC what they need to do or blaming them for the election? If anything, this does seem like a message to liberal and moderate whites. Leading up to the election I would get into political FB arguments all the time and routinely end up singling people out as people racists or bigots. It's helpful for me to know that this does more harm than good and that there are potentially better ways I could actually reach people.

The OP did just that.

Uhh, no, but you could have a conversation with that nice white lady down the block that waves at you when you go for a jog, and doesn't understand why voting for Trump lumps her in the same group as the person that did that to your mom.

Told a black man to do this nonsense.

Edit: There is also a post about blaming the election on us. Let me find that nonsense. Did you even read this thread?

 

[Telephone Man]

Making racists out as victims is getting real tiresome.

I at least hope all of you are just talking about "moderate" racists (whatever that it), and not the type that knows a bunch of slurs and religiously follow "crime stats" and "racial IQ".

 

[Darryl M R]

Is anybody in this thread actually telling PoC what they need to do or blaming them for the election? If anything, this does seem like a message to liberal and moderate whites. Leading up to the election I would get into political FB arguments all the time and routinely end up singling people out as people racists or bigots. It's helpful for me to know that this does more harm than good and that there are potentially better ways I could actually reach people.

Yes.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

All I can say is wow.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Yes.

Hell outside of this thread, minorities have been blamed for this election

 

[Frozenprince]

Yes.

Like god damn does anybody ever read these threads or do they just come in to tell us all "SEE I TOLD YOU SO"

Hell outside of this thread, minorities have been blamed for this election

INSIDE of this thread we have.

 

[kaname-san]

Yeah sure you're not. At least own your bullshit.
So that Dylan Roof post? The black people he murdered talked to him and they were nice to him and he still killed them.
Did that being nice to a racist nonsense you've been spewing work out for them?

I never said be nice to them. What are you on? You are jumping to conclusions and putting words in my mouth.

 

[Darryl M R]

I have a wife who is an apologist somewhat and it gives me a bit of understanding to the insanity mentioned in this thread.

What some fear is a minority backlash where all whites are targetted regardless of their stance. At least thats what seems to be the hint I catch in our chats.

A race war? You have people uniting yelling Black Lives Matter because they do not in this country while still getting murdered by cops, but your wife thinks there will be a race war when white people own up to racism?


Really now. So we protest in the street for justice but what we really want is to have a race war..

 

[Nafai1123]

Give a racist a word and they'll take your dignity.

Give a misogynist a smile and they'll grab your pussy.

Give a anti-Semite your history and they'll reject the truth.

Give a bigot a voice and they'll suffocate yours.

 

[Enzom21]

I never said be nice to them. What are you on? You are jumping to conclusions and putting words in my mouth.

Yeah sure. So no response to the Dylan Roof part of my post?

 

[molnizzle]

The OP did just that.

Told a black man to do this nonsense.

Yeah okay, that's garbage. I understand why minorities would take offense then.

Really now. So we protest in the street for justice but what we really want is to have a race war..

It's not that uncommon of a sentiment among poorer whites, actually. A lot of my old Army buddies post abhorrent shit that alludes to this. I don't know if it's a literal "race war" they fear, but they're definitely scared and feel attacked. I usually try to to flip it on them and explain that at least they're only being attacked with words and not police pistols.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Most of them voted for him in spite of the racist or misogynistic things he said, not because of them.

People keep asserting this and I'd like to seem some data to back this up. I think it's fair to assume people who resonated with a campaign that unapologetic about bigotry and that interwove that bigotry with the promises of jobs and economic revival also resonated with that bigotry on some level, or at the very least didn't care about it.

"He hates muslims but I really want a tax cut (that won't come)" is not and should not be considered a valid motivation.

 

[Frozenprince]

Have frank conversations with them? In my experience, that doesn't work.

Then I legitimately do not understand the point you are trying to make here.

 

[EdibleKnife]

I never said be nice to them. What are you on? You are jumping to conclusions and putting words in my mouth.

So what are you saying, because multiple times you've stated that we should, "stop attacking" them as though the simple act of calling out racist bs is inherently an attack. What exactly are you saying black people should do when confronted with the Dylann Roofs of the world? Because keeping the words "racist" and "asshole" out of my mouth in such a situation is not just me being nice, but a fucking saint

 

[Beefy]

So what are you saying, because multiple times you've stated that we should, "stop attacking" them as though the simple act of calling out racist bs is inherently an attack. What exactly are you saying black people should do when confronted with the Dylann Roofs of the world? Because keeping the words "racist" and "asshole" out of my mouth I'm such a situation is not just me being nice, but a fucking saint

The poster is saying we shouldn't stay quiet and allow a ass hole to call us racist shit.

 

[Darryl M R]

Then I legitimately do not understand the point you are trying to make here.

Wait is this guy backtracking on his points? I'm not sure if he's trying to take a side to argue or just play devil's advocate

It's not that uncommon of a sentiment among poorer whites, actually. A lot of my old Army buddies post abhorrent shit that alludes to this. I don't know if it's a literal "race war" they fear, but they're definitely scared and feel attacked. I usually try to to flip it on them and explain that at least they're only being attacked with words and not police pistols.

So a bunch of gun loving Americans are shaking in their boots over a possible race war? Army trained at that.

My god. Can people stop being so fragile. We are legit asking to be treated like humans not be shot down like cattle.

 

[Desparadina]

Another argument I've seen is that Rural America's education/poverty is the reason for their ignorance so therefore we should play nice with them cause they don't know any better. It's as if there aren't minorities going through the same shitty education system and poverty woes and yet somehow they tend to come out better more sympathetic people than most of the people who ended up voting for Trump. Racists need to be responsible for their own actions regardless of what got them there.

 

[kaname-san]

Yeah sure. So no response to the Dylan Roof part of my post?

I did respond. I never said that bring nice would have saved those people. You put those words in my mouth.

 

[R0ckman]

A race war? You have people uniting yelling Black Lives Matter because they do not in this country while still getting murdered by cops, but your wife thinks there will be a race war when white people own up to racism?


Really now. So we protest in the street for justice but what we really want is to have a race war..

Maybe a misunderstanding on what I mean, I don't think them owning up to it is the issue, but it being directly brought up and discussed and forced out. Basically would rather it be ignored altogether. The solution in the OP suggests a less direct approach which would in theory (if these people were reasonable) be less threatening.

A fear of people just snapping I guess?

 

[Telephone Man]

Yeah, no one is suggesting you agree with them or respect their point of view. You have to engage with them to show them why they're wrong, rather than just block them on twitter and think you've made the world a better place.

White people are still the majority, you're gonna have to deal with them for a while.

Thinking you're gonna change a racist's viewpoint online is just silly. Plus, that person will just bring up their own bullshit links that "justify" their racism. Countless non-racists and PoC have tried and been through this rodeo many times. Nothing improves.

Best I just block the asshole.

 

[Darryl M R]

Another argument I've seen is that Rural America's education/poverty is the reason for their ignorance so therefore we should play nice with them cause they don't know any better. It's as if there aren't minorities going through the same shitty education system and poverty woes and yet somehow they tend to come out better more sympathetic people than most of the people who ended up voting for Trump. Racists need to be responsible for their own actions regardless of what got them there.

Yup. Rural America honestly has zero excuse. Communities of colors had drugs tear up families, private prison profit off of laws meant to target them, failing politicians providing zero change, and failing school systems.

At one point when I was in high school my school district ranked 51 out of 50 states + the District of Columbia.

Yet no one thought less of another human being because of their race.

 

[molnizzle]

So a bunch of gun loving Americans are shaking in their boots over a possible race war? Army trained at that.

My god. Can people stop being so fragile. We are legit asking to be treated like humans not be shot down like cattle.

I agree with you, but wishing for think differently isn't gonna make it happen. This is the situation we're stuck in. I try to do what I can...

 

[Darryl M R]

Maybe a misunderstanding on what I mean, I don't think them owning up to it is the issue, but it being directly brought up and discussed and forced out. Basically would rather it be ignored altogether. The solution in the OP suggests a less direct approach which would in theory (if these people were reasonable) be less threatening.

A fear of people just snapping I guess?

A fear of black people snapping or white people snapping?

What is there to snap about. .

 

[call_kotaku]

I think people are equating the OP with something it's not really addressing.

No, having a dialogue with someone who just used a racial slur towards you is pointless.

Having dialogue with someone who might have racial views, either based on ignorance or stereotypes though? There's probably value there.

But take the Trump thing, calling people who voted for Trump as racist, or accepting racism isn't fruitful. Most of them voted for him in spite of the racist or misogynistic things he said, not because of them. People are going to vote for what puts them in a better position, or at least think put's them in a better position. People switched from blue to red for economic reasons.

You do understand that saying reverse racism was pushing away voters but actual racism wasn't an issue is super disingenuous considering the facts, right? He outperformed the Republican candidates that didn't directly pander to the attitudes of white supremacy, because "economic anxiety" is just a code-word for "anxiety about multiculturalism and the end of white majority" if you actually bother to understand why people were so excited for Trump. Saying they voted for him purely out of economic reasons when he didn't make a single concrete promise to that effect is just proposing that every Trump voter is dumb as rocks, and that is racist.

Using code words and generally not calling something for what it is just makes it worse, even if it makes bystanders more comfortable. Before the election everyone on the left was celebrating about finally ending institutional racism in the US via the latino birth rate, but as soon as you realized how many people actually support racism your immediate response wasn't "oh god you minorities were right about this all along", it was "well, if that many people voted for it then it can't all be wrong".

I realize you're just as distraught as we are and want some sort of answer for this madness and some sort of reassurance that it won't happen again. But wiping away decades of effective social justice work because there's still a long way left to go isn't the moderate left seeking unity, it's just them twisting in the knife.

 

[Frozenprince]

A fear of black people snapping or white people snapping?

What is there to snap about. .

"I'm not oppressing them ENOUGH ANYMORE"

 

[NervousXtian]

People keep asserting this and I'd like to seem some data to back this up. I think it's fair to assume people who resonated with a campaign that unapologetic about bigotry and that interwove that bigotry with the promises of jobs and economic revival also resonated with that bigotry on some level, or at the very least didn't care about it.

"He hates muslims but I really want a tax cut (that won't come)" is not and should not be considered a valid motivation.

I've read different articles on why Trump won, but anecdotally every person I know personally that voted for Trump (and this is in very left Portland) are as pretty far from bigots or racists as you can get. Some are minorities as well, some even LGBT.

I don't think Trump ran on racism, as much as isolationism. The media and the internet made a lot of noise over a lot of his quotes, but that's what happens during elections. So we tend to focus on those things, well we ignore the things that actually resonated with people.

Just as a lot of us on the left ignored a lot of what was wrong with Hillary as a candidate, and just focused on the policies we liked that she supported.

If you want to paint Trump supporters as racists and bigots, then you'd have to paint Hillary supporters as rape apologists.

The end is we had 2 choices, and you took the good with the bad, or the bad with the good.. and chose someone.

I voted for Hillary. My choice lost, I'm moving on.

 

[Frozenprince]

I've read different articles on why Trump won, but anecdotally every person I know personally that voted for Trump (and this is in very left Portland) are as pretty far from bigots or racists as you can get. Some are minorities as well, some even LGBT.

I don't think Trump ran on racism, as much as isolationism. The media and the internet made a lot of noise over a lot of his quotes, but that's what happens during elections. So we tend to focus on those things, well we ignore the things that actually resonated with people.

Just as a lot of us on the left ignored a lot of what was wrong with Hillary as a candidate, and just focused on the policies we liked that she supported.

If you want to paint Trump supporters as racists and bigots, then you'd have to paint Hillary supporters as rape apologists.

The end is we had 2 choices, and you took the good with the bad, or the bad with the good.. and chose someone.

I voted for Hillary. My choice lost, I'm moving on.

You'd be wrong.

this whole "you need to all move on" thing needs to die too.

News flash.

We don't get the option to move on.

 

[kaname-san]

So what are you saying, because multiple times you've stated that we should, "stop attacking" them as though the simple act of calling out racist bs is inherently an attack. What exactly are you saying black people should do when confronted with the Dylann Roofs of the world? Because keeping the words "racist" and "asshole" out of my mouth in such a situation is not just me being nice, but a fucking saint

What can you do? If someone wants to kill you, you can't really stop them unless you know it's coming.

What we can do is try to prevent them from being "made" by trying to spread positivity. It will be too late for some, but not for everyone.

 

[Frozenprince]

What can you do? If someone wants to kill you, you can't really stop them unless you know it's coming.

What we can do is try to prevent them from being "made" by trying to spread positivity. It will be too late for some, but not for everyone.

But you literally just said conversation doesn't work.

 

[R0ckman]

A fear of black people snapping or white people snapping?

What is there to snap about. .

Blacks among other nationalities snapping I guess.

Lame judicial system, police officiers being above the law rather than just enforcers etc. People coming out of the woodworks in high positions showing their "true form". I guess some assume minorities would not be able to reasonably withstand the wakeup call.

 

[Darryl M R]

What can you do? If someone wants to kill you, you can't really stop them unless you know it's coming.

What we can do is try to prevent them from being "made" by trying to spread positivity. It will be too late for some, but not for everyone.

I'll positively shut down a bigot or a racist. That sounds like a net positive all around.

Blacks among other nationalities snapping I guess.

Lame judicial system, police officiers being above the law rather than just enforcers etc. People coming out of the woodworks in high positions showing their "true form". I guess some assume minorities would not be able to reasonably withstand the wakeup call.

What?

What wake-up call?

WE ARE ALREADY WOKE

Institutionalized racism isn't a secret kept away from Blacks. We live it everyday. Blacks have yet so show an ounce of fragility ever since we were brought over to this God forsaken country packed like cattle. Not an ounce slaving long hot days and being nothing more than property. Not an ounce being denied rights even with freedom. Not an ounce when getting hosed and attacked by dogs. Not an ounce when getting gunned down.

But we wouldn't be able to handle white America saying "Hey yea. . racism exist and we did some pretty messed up stuff to you guys."

Us Blacks would just lose it then right?

 

[jroc74]

I've read different articles on why Trump won, but anecdotally every person I know personally that voted for Trump (and this is in very left Portland) are as pretty far from bigots or racists as you can get. Some are minorities as well, some even LGBT.

I don't think Trump ran on racism, as much as isolationism. The media and the internet made a lot of noise over a lot of his quotes, but that's what happens during elections. So we tend to focus on those things, well we ignore the things that actually resonated with people.

Just as a lot of us on the left ignored a lot of what was wrong with Hillary as a candidate, and just focused on the policies we liked that she supported.

If you want to paint Trump supporters as racists and bigots, then you'd have to paint Hillary supporters as rape apologists.

The end is we had 2 choices, and you took the good with the bad, or the bad with the good.. and chose someone.

I voted for Hillary. My choice lost, I'm moving on.

This right here is one of the biggest problems with this election.

Folks...this isnt about winning n losing. And if you think Trump didnt run his campaign on racism.....

...........

Please explain to me why are all the racist, bigots so empowered? I have never seen anything like this in all my years and the first President I remember seeing was Reagan.

Folks showed their ass when Obama was in office and they are showing it even more thanks to Trump.

And you are going to have to enlighten me on the rape apologists thing. I definitely missed this one.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I've read different articles on why Trump won, but anecdotally every person I know personally that voted for Trump (and this is in very left Portland) are as pretty far from bigots or racists as you can get. Some are minorities as well, some even LGBT.

I don't think Trump ran on racism, as much as isolationism. The media and the internet made a lot of noise over a lot of his quotes, but that's what happens during elections. So we tend to focus on those things, well we ignore the things that actually resonated with people.

Just as a lot of us on the left ignored a lot of what was wrong with Hillary as a candidate, and just focused on the policies we liked that she supported.

If you want to paint Trump supporters as racists and bigots, then you'd have to paint Hillary supporters as rape apologists.

The end is we had 2 choices, and you took the good with the bad, or the bad with the good.. and chose someone.

I voted for Hillary. My choice lost, I'm moving on.

You don't think minorities can have problems with other minorities, or that LGBT+ people can't be bigoted against other minorities?

Did Hillary run on a campaign of rape apology (even though that's about as false of an equivalency as you can get)?

Your assessment of "everyone you know" doesn't mean much to me, especially in light of your overall dismissal of what the Trump campaign was doing. Neither does invoking "very left Portland" as I was repeatedly called a nigger by people in passing cars in a variety of "very left" places.

It doesn't seem like you've moved on, just that you're anxious to get people out of your way.

 

[NervousXtian]

You do understand that saying reverse racism was pushing away voters but actual racism wasn't an issue is super disingenuous considering the facts, right? He outperformed the Republican candidates that didn't directly pander to the attitudes of white supremacy, because "economic anxiety" is just a code-word for "anxiety about multiculturalism and the end of white majority" if you actually bother to understand why people were so excited for Trump. Saying they voted for him purely out of economic reasons when he didn't make a single concrete promise to that effect is just proposing that every Trump voter is dumb as rocks, and that is racist.

Using code words and generally not calling something for what it is just makes it worse, even if it makes bystanders more comfortable. Before the election everyone on the left was celebrating about finally ending institutional racism in the US via the latino birth rate, but as soon as you realized how many people actually support racism your immediate response wasn't "oh god you minorities were right about this all along", it was "well, if that many people voted for it then it can't all be wrong".

I realize you're just as distraught as we are and want some sort of answer for this madness and some sort of reassurance that it won't happen again. But wiping away decades of effective social justice work because there's still a long way left to go isn't the moderate left seeking unity, it's just them twisting in the knife.

You're wrong there, he did run on economic issues. The wall was about curbing illegal immigration and the thought they were taking American jobs. Getting rid of NAFTA and raising tariffs on China and penalizing American companies who close shop to set over seas... all economic. Tax cuts across the board, economic.

I think he's on the wrong side of ALL those issues, but he won the primaries because of it. He was anti-establishment, he had a catch phrase, and a stupid hat.

People actually have a pretty good ability to weed out bullshit, more than we give them credit for. People didn't really want a wall, they wanted border security, they don't want to ban muslims, they want to make sure terrorists aren't coming over, they want to know their job isn't getting shipped overseas. The rest of the crap was just noise.

 

[Frozenprince]

You're wrong there, he did run on economic issues. The wall was about curbing illegal immigration and the thought they were taking American jobs. Getting rid of NAFTA and raising tariffs on China and penalizing American companies who close shop to set over seas... all economic. Tax cuts across the board, economic.

I think he's on the wrong side of ALL those issues, but he won the primaries because of it. He was anti-establishment, he had a catch phrase, and a stupid hat.

People actually have a pretty good ability to weed out bullshit, more than we give them credit for. People didn't really want a wall, they wanted border security, they don't want to ban muslims, they want to make sure terrorists aren't coming over, they want to know their job isn't getting shipped overseas. The rest of the crap was just noise.

Lol yeah okay, they don't really want those things that he asserted over and over and over again as being cornerstones and immutable, non-negotiable aspects of his campaign. People don't have an ability to weed out bullshit he LITERALLY LIED TO THEM TO GET ELECTED AND WON.

 

[kaname-san]

But you literally just said conversation doesn't work.

See that sentence after the one you just bolded? Those are the ones who it doesn't work on. Kids on the fence who are only leaning towards racism because their parents are racists, those are the ones you can still talk to. Clear enough?

 

[Frozenprince]

See that sentence after the one you just bolded? Those are the ones who it doesn't work on. Kids on the fence who are only leaning towards racism because their parents are racists, those are the ones you can still talk to. Clear enough?

No because your point is literally all over the place, non-sensical, and really, barely exists.

You have no cogent thought.

 

[NervousXtian]

Lol yeah okay, they don't really want those things that he asserted over and over and over again as being cornerstones and immutable, non-negotiable aspects of his campaign. People don't have an ability to weed out bullshit he LITERALLY LIED TO THEM TO GET ELECTED AND WON.

..did people really think Obama was going to bring about all kinds of change? Did people really think Bernie was going to give us free college and health care?

The most a President can do is move the needle a bit one way or the other.

So far Trump has moved away from a lot of his campaign promises... like pretty much every politician ever.

Also when I say I moved on, I moved on from getting bent out of shape about Trump winning. It's time to find a new person to get behind so we can take shit back during the mid-terms and take the Presidency come 2020.

 

[soul creator]

People keep asserting this and I'd like to seem some data to back this up. I think it's fair to assume people who resonated with a campaign that unapologetic about bigotry and that interwove that bigotry with the promises of jobs and economic revival also resonated with that bigotry on some level, or at the very least didn't care about it.

"He hates muslims but I really want a tax cut (that won't come)" is not and should not be considered a valid motivation.

I think that's just the inherent nature of voting for a candidate in a largely two-party system. On some level, it does "force" you into situations where someone will at some point say "eh, I guess I'll overlook that", no matter how terrible it is. Isn't that the argument that's used every time a 3rd party candidate is brought up?

some antiwar people vote for pro-war Democrats who routinely bomb other countries
some pro-choice people vote for a sexist Republican party
some people who support gay rights vote for a routinely homophobic Republican party
some anti-capitalists vote for pro-corporate Democrats

Democrats had one of the most popular proponents of stop and frisk and surveillance of Muslims front and center at their convention, while also having mothers of those slain by police violence on stage and the father of a slain Muslim soldier

Of course a lot of them didn't care about Trump's racism, because America being a white supremacist country allows them to not have to care. And while for a lot of us, his blatant racism/sexism should an obvious dealbreaker on a gut level, they're just using the same logic to overlook things the same way that everyone else does in favor of their preferred major party candidate. When you're forced to pick between only two people, the rationalizations start flying:

"he's just trolling"
"he doesn't really mean it"
"it's just PC culture out of control"

It's all BS and cognitive dissonance, but it's the same BS that all human beings are prone to, and not something unique to Trump voters. Recognizing that is important, I think. And I'm not saying that the individual rationalizations are equivalent in all cases, but that the psychological motivation behind it is the same.

 

[Aaronology]

You're wrong there, he did run on economic issues. The wall was about curbing illegal immigration and the thought they were taking American jobs. Getting rid of NAFTA and raising tariffs on China and penalizing American companies who close shop to set over seas... all economic. Tax cuts across the board, economic.

I think he's on the wrong side of ALL those issues, but he won the primaries because of it. He was anti-establishment, he had a catch phrase, and a stupid hat.

People actually have a pretty good ability to weed out bullshit, more than we give them credit for. People didn't really want a wall, they wanted border security, they don't want to ban muslims, they want to make sure terrorists aren't coming over, they want to know their job isn't getting shipped overseas. The rest of the crap was just noise.

This is some next level irony right here.