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Smash Bros Brawl Dojo Official Update Thread: Goodbye, Cherry-don
- Thread starter ant1532
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MGrant said:
This is what is driving me crazy. Why in the heck would they give Lucas these moves unless he was replacing Ness, and they didn't want to entirely delete a moveset?
As I said it could still go either way.. but now that I think about it I'm disappointed in either of the two foreseeable scenarios to be honest with you guys.
Scenario A) Ness is gone
Scenario B) Ness is still in and Lucas is a partial-clone instead of being a 100% unique character
That is unless scenario B has Ness gaining an entirely new moveset, but that seems kinda unlikely. Hmmmmmmmmm
Mockingbird
Member
SuperAngelo64 said:
I can understand Japanese.
"いままでのスマブラシリーズに登場していたネスという
キャラクターがいますが"
The underlined word means up until now. It says that there is a character named Ness that has appeared in all the Smash Bros. game up until now, but Lucas is pretty close (similar) to him.
The japanese portion that would translate into "up until now" in enligsh is the "いままで" on the japanese translation. I just can't tell for sure if that has the same connotation of exclusion.
Personally, I don't think it's as damning as the english version sounds...
Personally, I don't think it's as damning as the english version sounds...
Mockingbird
Member
scottnak said:
Actually, it's more damming than the English version =/
You think so? Hm. Well, I'd probably go with what you say then. Haha.Mockingbird said:
This is just a gut feeling. (keeping in mind: I have no opinion of whether or not Ness is in)
Just get this feeling it gets used more loosely rather than its strict literal meaning of "now" and "until". But personally, I'm not immersed in Japanese, so I can say I'm rusty at best
(And I'm exhausted and trying to distract myself from studying, woo.)
Mockingbird
Member
scottnak said:You think so? Hm. Well, I'd probably go with what you say then. Haha.
This is just a gut feeling. (keeping in mind: I have no opinion of whether or not Ness is in)
Just get this feeling it gets used more loosely rather than its strict literal meaning of "now" and "until". But personally, I'm not immersed in Japanese, so I can say I'm rusty at best
(And I'm exhausted and trying to distract myself from studying, woo.)
I actually I wasn't referring to the imma made but rather the entire sentence. Notice how he also uses the word "ga" which means "but."
I'm also not immersed in Japanese myself, but I would say, in my opinion, that the sentence in Japanese is definitely more damming.
Testicular Sound Express
Member
doesn't look good for Ness
"Theres a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now"
"Theres a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now"
Testicular Sound Express
Member
hopefully lucas' learning curve won't be as steep as Ness' in SSBM
Haven't you guys learned anything about never making any assumptions with Sakurai?
Perhaps Ness is gone. Perhaps not. However, going "NESS BE GONE CONFIRMATED!" at this point only makes you appear more dense than a year-old biscuit. Thoughtful speculation and confirmation is great, and opinions are always welcome, but I think some folks aren't quite up on how things are confirmed/proven/demonstrated in the world.
Perhaps Ness is gone. Perhaps not. However, going "NESS BE GONE CONFIRMATED!" at this point only makes you appear more dense than a year-old biscuit. Thoughtful speculation and confirmation is great, and opinions are always welcome, but I think some folks aren't quite up on how things are confirmed/proven/demonstrated in the world.
Lucas's and Ness's. I'm just happy a website managed to properly punctuate the possessive form of a singular proper name ending in "S"... for once.Testicular Sound Express said:
This has been a really unpredictable week, but nonetheless I'll go ahead and make a prediction before I leave. >_>
Update types so far:
November 5th - Story mode, music
November 6th - Item
November 7th - Assist trophy, how to play
November 8th - Special moves
Unused: Character profile, final smash, stage, Poke Ball, game mode
Expectation: It'll be one of the unused update types.
November 5th - Double update
November 6th - Single update
November 7th - Double update
November 8th - Single update
Expectation: It'll be a double update in accordance with teh pattern.
Previous Fridays that fit into the types of character profile, final smash, stage, Poke Ball, or game mode:
Character profile - Pit, Samus, Peach, Ice Climbers, Snake
Final smash - Peach
Stage - Delfino Plaza, Lylat Cruise, Bridge of Eldin, Smashville, Wario Ware
Poke Ball - Never on a Friday
Game mode - Four Kinds of Control, Tourney, Taking Snapshots
Expectation: The double update will be a character profile and a stage.
Fact: We've never had the same series get two stage updates.
Fact: The only series without stage updates are F-Zero, Metroid, Sonic, symbol 13, and symbol 19.
Expectation: A character who came with a stage from the same series could only be from one of the series without stage updates.
Final Prediction: The character will be from F-Zero, he will be Captain Falcon, and the stage will be Fire Field. Time for the triumphant return of The Knee.
Edit: I also wouldn't put it past them to go ahead and give us Ness on Friday despite the frenzy for tonight. I mean, Zero Suit Samus showed up the day after Samus' final smash.
Update types so far:
November 5th - Story mode, music
November 6th - Item
November 7th - Assist trophy, how to play
November 8th - Special moves
Unused: Character profile, final smash, stage, Poke Ball, game mode
Expectation: It'll be one of the unused update types.
November 5th - Double update
November 6th - Single update
November 7th - Double update
November 8th - Single update
Expectation: It'll be a double update in accordance with teh pattern.
Previous Fridays that fit into the types of character profile, final smash, stage, Poke Ball, or game mode:
Character profile - Pit, Samus, Peach, Ice Climbers, Snake
Final smash - Peach
Stage - Delfino Plaza, Lylat Cruise, Bridge of Eldin, Smashville, Wario Ware
Poke Ball - Never on a Friday
Game mode - Four Kinds of Control, Tourney, Taking Snapshots
Expectation: The double update will be a character profile and a stage.
Fact: We've never had the same series get two stage updates.
Fact: The only series without stage updates are F-Zero, Metroid, Sonic, symbol 13, and symbol 19.
Expectation: A character who came with a stage from the same series could only be from one of the series without stage updates.
Final Prediction: The character will be from F-Zero, he will be Captain Falcon, and the stage will be Fire Field. Time for the triumphant return of The Knee.
Edit: I also wouldn't put it past them to go ahead and give us Ness on Friday despite the frenzy for tonight. I mean, Zero Suit Samus showed up the day after Samus' final smash.
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
I don't know...we can argue semantics all we want, but the fact is that I simply can't think of a logical reason for Ness to be removed. The only real evidence we have is a vaguely defined intention for a previous game. Not what I'd call perfect evidence, frankly.
Some say that Lucas looks too similar to Ness. But to the untrained eye, Luigi looks an awful lot like Mario. Marth is quite similar looking to Ike. Appearance doesn't really mean a whole lot.
And Sakurai has been expanding the rosters for each series. Kirby's characters have tripled in quantity. We've got three new Pokemon. Why would Sakurai limit Mother to one character? One thing that people don't seem to always realize is that Mother is actually quite popular in Japan. And in all honesty, Lucas is a very different character from Ness in the context of their own games. So why have one replace the other simply due to cosmetic similarities?
Ness is in. BELIEVE.
Some say that Lucas looks too similar to Ness. But to the untrained eye, Luigi looks an awful lot like Mario. Marth is quite similar looking to Ike. Appearance doesn't really mean a whole lot.
And Sakurai has been expanding the rosters for each series. Kirby's characters have tripled in quantity. We've got three new Pokemon. Why would Sakurai limit Mother to one character? One thing that people don't seem to always realize is that Mother is actually quite popular in Japan. And in all honesty, Lucas is a very different character from Ness in the context of their own games. So why have one replace the other simply due to cosmetic similarities?
Ness is in. BELIEVE.
AlternativeUlster
Absolutely pathetic part deux
I want Ness to be in but in retrospect, I sucked with Ness.
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
I've never known anyone in person aside from myself that was good with Ness.
Of course, the second I unlocked him in SSB64, I immediately set about to mastering him. I just wish he hadn't been so horribly crippled in Melee.
Of course, the second I unlocked him in SSB64, I immediately set about to mastering him. I just wish he hadn't been so horribly crippled in Melee.
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
Just for you, Jiggy:
Character: Clefairy!
Theres a character named Jigglypuff who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now, and Clefairy is very similar. They are from the same Normal Type of Pokemon.
...No, but in all seriousness, hopefully we both get our favourites in Brawl.
Character: Clefairy!
Theres a character named Jigglypuff who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now, and Clefairy is very similar. They are from the same Normal Type of Pokemon.
...No, but in all seriousness, hopefully we both get our favourites in Brawl.
Haunted One said:
Someone made a cool mock-up of Phoenix Wright being unlocked in Smash Bros. Brawl. This just makes me dream of wanting him in there, especially with the epic music from the Ace Attorney games.
Phoenix Wright - New Challenger
@MrCheez, I'd hope Lucas would have a different voice than Ness, otherwise, how would you tell who was doing the PK Fiya?
Seriously though, the reason I think Ness is still in is because Lucas is shaping up to be more like Mario's Luigi than Fox's Falco. Mario & Luigi actually have unique moves they don't share, they differ both in moveset and in parameters. Fox & Falco differ only in parameters, but their actual moveset is identical. Lucas has a different moveset from Ness, and will likely have different parameters as well (perhaps be gaster, slower, stronger, sturdier, what have you).
Of course, I also believe Falco will still be in, but that some of his moves will be changed from Melee, to differentiate him more from Fox.
Just my personal opinion. I have no special insight here.
Seriously though, the reason I think Ness is still in is because Lucas is shaping up to be more like Mario's Luigi than Fox's Falco. Mario & Luigi actually have unique moves they don't share, they differ both in moveset and in parameters. Fox & Falco differ only in parameters, but their actual moveset is identical. Lucas has a different moveset from Ness, and will likely have different parameters as well (perhaps be gaster, slower, stronger, sturdier, what have you).
Of course, I also believe Falco will still be in, but that some of his moves will be changed from Melee, to differentiate him more from Fox.
Just my personal opinion. I have no special insight here.
The Hermit
Member
After this update I don't see how people still expect Ness... I mean just change his outfit and hair and you have Ness with pK Freeze.
Holy Order Sol
Member
Rexaur said:
:lol That would be so awesome.
Phoenix Wright is the new Akuma.
AlternativeUlster
Absolutely pathetic part deux
Holy Order Sol said:
Phoenix Wright would be dreamy. What would his moveset be?
Cosmonaut X
Member
Character profile page updated with all the info to date -- clickity-clickity
AlternativeUlster said:
I had a talk about this a while back, and he could make such an awesome character
B Special - "Objection" finger point just like a Falcon Punch
Forward B - maybe a gavel/mallet...Sakurai seems to have a thing for those
Up B - he can put on Maximillion's cape and fly up briefly
Down B - Present evidence where he can pull out various items from the series all having difference effects (kinda like Peach's turnips)
Final Smash - Heated courtroom battle, with lot's of "Objections" and "Hold Its" followed by a Guilty verdict KO-ing close range opponents.
Also, Edgeworth/Franziska assist trophy please
Mockingbird
Member
Rexaur said:
If Phoenix Wright were to be in Smash, that would be the way to introduce him. So perfect.
SuperAngelo64
Banned
Phoenix Wright, lulz.
If any Capcom character is getting in, it's Megaman.
If any Capcom character is getting in, it's Megaman.
Iam Canadian said:
The problem with all these comparisons is that characters like Luigi, Pokemon, and the Kirby characters are series staples. They've been in almost every entry of the Mario/Kirby/Pokemon franchises, from new to older titles. Ness however was only the main character in Mother 2, and Lucas was his replacement as the main character in Mother 3.
Ness hasn't appeared in a brand new Mother game in a very long time (over 10 years and I'm not including cameos), and with Lucas replacing him as the series star, it makes sense for Ness to be replaced the same way in Smash Brothers. If Sakurai was to add more Mother characters, it would make sense to add more characters from Mother 3, not leave in ones from the previous title. The same logic can be applied to Fire Emblem and Roy being cut and Ike's addition (Marth is not included in this since he's going to be in a new DS game).
WastingPenguins
Member
On one hand, before today I would have been shocked if Ness didn't return. He is one of the originals. He has a Smash Bros. legacy. How could they just throw him away?
On the other hand, Lucas' special moveset is a LOT more similar to Ness' than I expected.
Let's just say I'm nervous.
On the other hand, Lucas' special moveset is a LOT more similar to Ness' than I expected.
Let's just say I'm nervous.
well so tomorrow we get a new character profile or else it will be the first time we get two week without a character revealed,i don't think we are going to get another newcomer and excluding ness the only melee character that's not an unlockable and hasn't been already revealed is c.falcon
so my prediction for tomorrow is c.falcon
so my prediction for tomorrow is c.falcon
or maybe sheik
crowphoenix
Banned
Lucas looks like he's going to be a pretty powerful character. Going to have to look out for him. As to whether Ness is in or not I can't say. I'd be a little sad if he was out, as he is my greatest enemy in the previous Smash rosters, but I can see Lucas replacing him in that position.
NeonZ
Member
ohamsie said:
As I understood the situation, it's more like Mario/Luigi in SSBM than the clones/extras in the same game - different normal attacks, but similar looking specials with different proprieties. So, neither would be a clone, if they're both in the game.
Or, rather, he should use nothing to keep himself as different as possible from Lucas...
That logic doesn't work retroactively, though. You couldn't apply it for SSBM, considering how Marth and Roy are from completely unrelated games of the same series.
Magic Mile
Banned
MrCheez said:
Fuck that shit. Some of us aren't japanese so we haven't been able to play Mother 3 yet. No more japanese-only character bullshit. Ness should be in, there is no logical reason as to why he would be thrown out.
Nemesis556 said:
it's been confirmed,she starts glowing and then turn into samus,i'm not pretty sure what's exactly the point of the glowing but here's the video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bzKaeLeurWM
you can see it here around 0:52
NeonZ said:
Yes, but the difference with Fire Emblem and Smash Brothers Melee is that Marth was the most recognizable face in Fire Emblem at the time of Smash Brother Melee's release (arguably still is), and Roy was in a brand new Fire Emblem title for the GBA that needed some promotion. You can't say any of those things for Ness and Super Smash Brothers Brawl. Ness isn't in a new Mother title, and he's no longer the face of the series.
NeonZ
Member
Ness never was "the face of the series", though. He just was the main character of the second game, only one to get a worldwide release, and his design was basically a direct copy of the protagonist of the first Mother game.
Ness still is the only face that the series has outside of Japan, and he also is a known face for Smash Bros players. I'm not saying that he'll be in the game, but Lucas has in no way 'replaced' Ness in importance.
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