He wasn't saying anything about law.
But legal obligation (or lack thereof) is all that matters in court. You can't punish people for having low morals.
He wasn't saying anything about law.
This isn't true. I'm just a first year law student but one is only expected to assist someone to whom they owe a duty to (because not acting is considering negligent). The expectations vary and are not constant.
I fail to see how him confirming the situation with his own eyes would have helped at all. This "confirmation" likely would have cost at least 2 minutes, at which point he would not be able to assist anymore than the women that witnessed the victim fall.
If a stranger comes up to you and tell you to call 911 because someone fell, are you going to dial 911 right away without thought?
I would at least ask why. I'm not into dialing 911 on a whim.
why not? I would have the person explain as I am dially 911 or even pass them the phoneI would at least ask why. I'm not into dialing 911 on a whim.
why not? I would have the person explain as I am dially 911 or even pass them the phone
If a stranger comes up to you and tell you to call 911 because someone fell, are you going to dial 911 right away without thought?
I would at least ask why. I'm not into dialing 911 on a whim.
I heard [a] flush, then a thud, the member, Stephanie Dick, recalled in a sworn affidavit about the February 2012 incident. I saw a womans arm drop to the floor, followed immediately by a loud snoring sound.
Dick said she dashed to the front desk and pleaded with gym employee Sean Higgins to help.
Isn't it illegal to call 911 if it's not an emergency? If someone tells me to call 911 I'm going to find out why. I'm also wondering why didn't that person call 911.
If I see a house on fire, sure I'm calling 911. If a stranger comes up to me and tells me to call 911, and I don't hear screams, gun shots, or sirens, I'm going to find out why first. If you're telling me you won't do the same, and will dial 911 right away, well hey there's someone in your building who passed out RIGHT NOW so go call 911.
Did you do it?
lol I'm pretty sure you would be let off the hook in this instance.Isn't it illegal to call 911 if it's not an emergency? If someone tells me to call 911 I'm going to find out why. I'm also wondering why didn't that person call 911.
If I see a house on fire, sure I'm calling 911. If a stranger comes up to me and tells me to call 911, and I don't hear screams, gun shots, or sirens, I'm going to find out why first. If you're telling me you won't do the same, and will dial 911 right away, well hey there's someone in your building who passed out RIGHT NOW so go call 911.
Did you do it?
Someone passed out in a stall is an emergency situation. I really hope someone like yourself doesn't have to deal with such a problem. It's not a stranger by the way. Every minute counts and you'd be busy playing detective.
Poorly written and ambiguous article (can't even tell when the female employee showed up), here is a better one:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/left_to_die_in_the_ladies_room_sqPmXV8R5nElvtf08DYrJI
The female employee didn't get there until 8 minutes after the front desk was alerted, and the 911 call had already started so she was not the one that told him to call. The call itself was 4.5 minutes after being alerted, not after the collapse.
Edit: still a little confusing about the gym member and the cell phone. The article says she eventually talked to 911, but was it her cellphone? Did she have it the whole time? From everything else she did, it seems weird for her not to call.
Actually, it seems like the second gym member was the first person to bring up 911. How the first two apparently didn't think of it is crazy.
It was a huge screw up by the guy not to call immediately.
lol I'm pretty sure you would be let off the hook in this instance.
The cashier did not see that. It's unreasonable for the posters who think he should be charged for murder or spend time in jail for something he did not see. You know who did see it? The woman who told him. Why aren't you up in arms about the woman who also did not call 911?
Sure, and I'm saying, in the real world, nobody is going to prosecute you for calling 911 thinking there is an emergency happening.Sure, because an emergency did happen. There's posters on here saying they would dial 911 without thought if someone comes up to them and tells them to dial 911. I'm being honest and saying in the real world, I need to find out why I'm dialing 911.
I don't think he should be charged with murder. Maybe you should direct these questions at other posters. My issue is you seem to be critical of someone who pays to be at a gym in the early hours of the morning. I'm pretty sure they're not out to prank him or tell him to call 911 on a whim. Someone passed out in a stall.
I was missing "should" in my statement
It should be expected to help another in distress.
Why are you critical of me and not the woman who also didn't call 911? I'm saying the cashier AND that woman are equally to blame.
Why are you critical of me and not the woman who also didn't call 911? I'm saying the cashier AND that woman are equally to blame.
That's why it's important to know how the first woman described the incident to the employee. Information that the most informative news article neglects to give. In a sworn affidavit, she describes it as someone snoring on the floor, which doesn't quite sound like a medical emergency to me. Even then, if you go up to a front desk employee to ask for medical help, and they are either unwilling or unable to give it, why the hell wouldn't you ask to borrow their phone to call 911? (Since we appear to be operating under the assumption that the woman reporting the incident didn't have a cell phone herself.)Someone passed out in a stall is an emergency situation.
That's why it's important to know how the first woman described the incident to the employee. Information the most informative news article neglects to give. In a sworn affidavit, she describes it as someone snoring on the floor, which doesn't quite sound like a medical emergency to me. Even then, if you go up to a front desk employee to ask for medical help, and they are either unwilling or unable to give it, why the hell wouldn't you ask to borrow their phone to call 911? (Since we appear to be operating under the assumption that the woman reporting the incident didn't have a cell phone herself.)
I'm sorry but blaming the guy here - and calling for murder charges to be filed - sounds like it's based more on the sensationalist headlines than the facts of the case. He called 911, yes 4.5 minutes after he was first informed, but probably more egregious was that the gym was breaking the law by not having a defibrillator and a person trained to use it on site. That might have saved her, this guy who doesn't appear to know CPR going in to the locker room almost certainly wouldn't have.
The sad part of this all is though, that if he would have gone in and saved her, he would later be fired for going into the locker room anyway.
Messed up world we live in.
That's why it's important to know how the first woman described the incident to the employee. Information that the most informative news article neglects to give. In a sworn affidavit, she describes it as someone snoring on the floor, which doesn't quite sound like a medical emergency to me. Even then, if you go up to a front desk employee to ask for medical help, and they are either unwilling or unable to give it, why the hell wouldn't you ask to borrow their phone to call 911? (Since we appear to be operating under the assumption that the woman reporting the incident didn't have a cell phone herself.)
I'm sorry but blaming the guy here - and calling for murder charges to be filed - sounds like it's based more on the sensationalist headlines than the facts of the case. He called 911, yes 4.5 minutes after he was first informed, but probably more egregious was that the gym was breaking the law by not having a defibrillator and a person trained to use it on site. That might have saved her, this guy who doesn't appear to know CPR going in to the locker room almost certainly wouldn't have.
Where did I say that? It's not anyone's fault, but didn't you also want charge the cashier for murder?
Stop trying to put more blame on the cashier than he deserves. Also, if someone comes up to me and tells to call 911, I won't call right away until I see what's going on. I won't call 911 just because, and I think most people here won't call 911 unless they see for themselves what's going on.
My first post was regrettable: both hyperbolic and childish. So there's that.
Let's put ourselves in his shoes. If someone tells me someone in the women's locker room is having an emergency that requires 911, and company policy dictates that I can't go in, and I'm dead set on not violating that policy, then I can't see for myself. In that instance, that very specific situation, why wouldn't I call 911? Why wait 5 minutes and then do it? You'd just let someone potentially die instead of trying to help because you can't see it?
Also the gym firing that guy would lead to a PR nightmare for them. I'd do it and say "let them fire me" and go to the media. I'm pretty sure places that don't want people to expire on their premises would be eager to hire me. Fuck continuing to work at a place where I feel like saving someone's life could still get me fired.
According to that article it took the dude about 30 seconds to call 911 once requested. Don't know why this dude didn't call initially but it doesn't seem like he ever refused to call.Poorly written and ambiguous article (can't even tell when the female employee showed up), here is a better one:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/left_to_die_in_the_ladies_room_sqPmXV8R5nElvtf08DYrJI
The female employee didn't get there until 8 minutes after the front desk was alerted, and the 911 call had already started so she was not the one that told him to call. The call itself was 4.5 minutes after being alerted, not after the collapse.
Edit: still a little confusing about the gym member and the cell phone. The article says she eventually talked to 911, but was it her cellphone? Did she have it the whole time? From everything else she did, it seems weird for her not to call.
Actually, it seems like the second gym member was the first person to bring up 911. How the first two apparently didn't think of it is crazy.
It was a huge screw up by the guy not to call immediately.
I've already stated I'd try to get more info before jumping to the phone and dialing asap. I'm not going to take 5 minutes like said employee, but that doesn't mean you should lock him up because he didn't act fast enough. Why don't you put as much blame on the woman who didn't call 911?
Is the stigma to not enter a women's restroom if you're a man strong enough to ignore a cry for help?
Was he worried about getting fired? Was that it? Because if that's it then he should be brought up on murder charges.
There isn't a stigma that applies to entering a women's restroom when there is a medical emergency and people are begging for your assistance.
Ha, maybe don't get your perspectives on what "extremist women's rights groups" get up to from MRA forums and you'll not have to worry about this.
But legal obligation (or lack thereof) is all that matters in court. You can't punish people for having low morals.
The story is an ironic, Adam-and-Eve tale. Humanity has been wiped out by a nuclear war, except for one man and woman, who meet in a restaurant in Salt Lake City. The man suffers from a disease that causes recurrent episodes of total paralysis. While in the bathroom, he has an attack, and dies with the realization that the woman is too prudish to enter and save him.