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Gafia 2: The Bride of Gafia |Mafia OT| One Wedding, Many Funerals

Ourobolus

Banned
Exactly. I don't think Retro would do anything even remotely similar to this.

Camjo is lying out of his ass guys. We're still going to have an arso on the loose when this is over. Mark me.
So how does that explain the fact that there was no douse -or- ignite last night?
 
I already explained why I think that would be mad moderating and thus very unlikely:

I am not saying I disagree with you or anything, but keep in mind that

1. Hyper/Camjo knew who he sent in for the original command: himself
2. He apparently does not get a success/failure report back

I obviously do not have access to the role PM, but Im pretty sure Camjo said it is mandatory to douse each night.

But again, if he targets by name and has no table limitation, then Retro RNGing you would go through regardless of all but a role block. The scramble would not matter, and there would only be one RNG choice, not two. It is possible Retro sent Hyper a PM saying "you randomly targeted Roy", and if there is it should probably have been forwarded to Camjo when Hyper asked to be replaced. But all of that is kind of moot, since we wont know until the game ends.
 
So how does that explain the fact that there was no douse -or- ignite last night?

The real arso was blocked. It doesn't take much for scum to figure that out if no one died and no one came forward as doused.

But why? What motivation does scum have to Arsonist, out of all roles?

Because he gambled on his proposal to work pro-town. Meanwhile, the real arso, whoever he/she is, keeps dousing people without a bother. The arso, so far, has doused Roy and Ouro - igniting them too, at the very least, is pro-scum. Scum has a vested interest in keeping the arso alive.
 

Burbeting

Banned
My power moves as well, just not in odd nights, though.

Also it seemed like Scrafty's role had her moving as well, since she had to target players.

--

In regards to Camjo, I think that he is the Arsonist, and not Scum. Scum has already lost 2 members in three days, so I seriously doubt they would risk their already somewhat bad position over as risky gambit as this is right now. That said, I do agree that lynching Camjo is the way to go today, but that's because he is most likely the Arsonist he claims to be.
 

CzarTim

Member
The real arso was blocked. It doesn't take much for scum to figure that out if no one died and no one came forward as doused.



Because he gambled on his proposal to work pro-town. Meanwhile, the real arso, whoever he/she is, keeps dousing people without a bother. The arso, so far, has doused Roy and Ouro - igniting them too, at the very least, is pro-scum. Scum has a vested interest in keeping the arso alive.
How is oreo dying pro scum. He is a neutral.
 
I am not saying I disagree with you or anything, but keep in mind that

1. Hyper/Camjo knew who he sent in for the original command: himself
2. He apparently does not get a success/failure report back

I obviously do not have access to the role PM, but Im pretty sure Camjo said it is mandatory to douse each night.

But again, if he targets by name and has no table limitation, then Retro RNGing you would go through regardless of all but a role block. The scramble would not matter, and there would only be one RNG choice, not two. It is possible Retro sent Hyper a PM saying "you randomly targeted Roy", and if there is it should probably have been forwarded to Camjo when Hyper asked to be replaced. But all of that is kind of moot, since we wont know until the game ends.

I'm pretty sure Retro would have stated in the PM that he couldn't target himself; why would he in the first place?

And if he had done so, he probably would have gotten a message saying the action was invalid.

I can't even wrap my head around this claim lol
 

nin1000

Banned
Exactly. I don't think Retro would do anything even remotely similar to this.

Camjo is lying out of his ass guys. We're still going to have an arso on the loose when this is over. Mark me.

dont worry. Camjo will be lynched today.
Even if i try to be a madman in the end i can be reasoned with.

I still want Burb or Time dead tbh
 

Burbeting

Banned
I still want Burb or Time dead tbh

Well at least consider the person who didn't vote for weemadarthur, at least.

-

Sorry, I'm just starting to grow really weary of nin playing the same note over and over again, based on a power that can at this point of the game mean many different things.
 

Burbeting

Banned
Sorry i dont care about that. Since in the end even scum can hide behind that.

I care about the facts i got.

So you don't care that scum was about to make weemadarthur into a confirmed town, and nobody would doubt them again (unless someone figured out that there could be a Godfather). But nope, obviously Scum would abandon that possibility, and jump to lynch weemad instead. Seems unlikely.

---

I'm going to go and look at the player behaviour at the end of D2 again.
 

CzarTim

Member
I am not saying I disagree with you or anything, but keep in mind that

1. Hyper/Camjo knew who he sent in for the original command: himself
2. He apparently does not get a success/failure report back

I obviously do not have access to the role PM, but Im pretty sure Camjo said it is mandatory to douse each night.

But again, if he targets by name and has no table limitation, then Retro RNGing you would go through regardless of all but a role block. The scramble would not matter, and there would only be one RNG choice, not two. It is possible Retro sent Hyper a PM saying "you randomly targeted Roy", and if there is it should probably have been forwarded to Camjo when Hyper asked to be replaced. But all of that is kind of moot, since we wont know until the game ends.
It would not be fair for the neutral to not be told who they targeted. It might lead them to fucking up a fake claim.
 

Camjo-Z

Member
Apparently Hyper was told at the start of D2 that Roy was chosen by RNG douse. This wasn't made explicit to me before, but it has been now. So that question is answered.

Exactly. I don't think Retro would do anything even remotely similar to this.

Camjo is lying out of his ass guys. We're still going to have an arso on the loose when this is over. Mark me.

Oh yeah, just like when we could mark your words that I was lying about not knowing part of my role in Batman. OH WAIT

Honestly, I don't give a shit anymore. I tried to give town some help and nobody wants it, so just hurry up and turbo.

VOTE: Camjo-Z
 

Ty4on

Member
I would have to look over your claimed role list again, but so far other than Scrafty the town PRs that I can think of have all been passive ones that dont require night actions. At least one person moving around at night will almost always be scum (the NK, unless scum decide to skip for whatever reason). We have several moving neutrals though, with apparently non-dangerous powers (since Hyper originally had no ignite it seems?), which seem tailor made to mess with motion detectors (ala sleepwalkers).
The claimed neutral roles can be proven (not their alignment, but the power) while a sleepwalker cannot and can easily be used as a scum fake claim.
 

Ourobolus

Banned
Dont forget to but Burb in that list aswell Ouro.
Eh...Burb isn't operating TOO far out of how I perceive him to act as town (though I've never seen him as scum, so take that with a grain of salt). I'm keeping my eye on him, but he's not a top suspect at the moment.
 

nin1000

Banned
Eh...Burb isn't operating TOO far out of how I perceive him to act as town (though I've never seen him as scum, so take that with a grain of salt). I'm keeping my eye on him, but he's not a top suspect at the moment.

Thats what makes him dangerious. Trust me on that one.

He said he didn't move N1. we should just believe him ?
 

Ourobolus

Banned
Thats what makes him dangerious. Trust me on that one.

He said he didn't move N1. we should just believe him ?
No, I'm not saying we unconditionally trust him. But the scenario exists that someone next to you was visited, right? If he's an even night commuter then he was around to be targeted. While in theory I like the Motion Detector role from a design standpoint, it doesn't really give much concrete information.
 

Burbeting

Banned
I'm still waiting for nin to give me a good explanation on why scum-Burb would try to push actively for Weemad-lynch during D2, when scum-burb could simply have kept his vote on SalvaPot, and waited for the day to play out.
 

nin1000

Banned
Oh for fucks sake. If you don't have a good argument, just say it. I still town read you, after all.

Its ok though Burb. Since at this steage its Camjo -> Time and maybe then you. Dont worry. I know i push hard against you but i cant do a thing at the moment. You can see me trying to push you out as something positive. I fear you man.
 

Burbeting

Banned
Its ok though Burb. Since at this steage its Camjo -> Time and maybe then you. Dont worry. I know i push hard against you but i cant do a thing at the moment. You can see me trying to push you out as something positive. I fear you man.

Whatever. I'm expecting you to answer that question above posted above.
 

nin1000

Banned
I'm still waiting for nin to give me a good explanation on why scum-Burb would try to push actively for Weemad-lynch during D2, when scum-burb could simply have kept his vote on SalvaPot, and waited for the day to play out.

Scum Burb could have done that ofc and it would have been easier. Like i said previously Burb. Normal scum could have taken the easy route. But its Burbeting we are talking about.
 

Burbeting

Banned
Scum Burb could have done that ofc and it would have been easier. Like i said previously Burb. Normal scum could have taken the easy route. But its Burbeting we are talking about.

So your arguments outside of the movement thing are:

"Burb is too town to be town"

And

"Scum Burb would deliberately choose to make his game harder"

OK.
 

nin1000

Banned
I'm still waiting for nin to give me a good explanation on why scum-Burb would try to push actively for Weemad-lynch during D2, when scum-burb could simply have kept his vote on SalvaPot, and waited for the day to play out.

So your arguments outside of the movement thing are:

"Burb is too town to be town"

And

"Scum Burb would deliberately choose to make his game harder"

OK.

It is indeed very thin. I agree with you on that regard. You have nothing to fear now Burb.
Today someone else is going to get sacrificed.
 

Burbeting

Banned
It's thin, yet you act like it's the gospel truth.

In short, this is what I think is happening:

large_tunnels-tunnel-ferroviaire-perthus-1.jpg
 

Burbeting

Banned
You sure are tunneling Burb so i will be the better man and end it.
Lets rather move on and focus on more imprtant things.

Will you agree ?

I'm writing my analysis on D2-end era action right now. Will post soon, I think there is scum lingering there.

So yeah, moving on for now would be preferable.
 

Burbeting

Banned
Also, I have a theory about Launch. But the theory could easily point out on him being either Town or Scum. If he was town, me being right would benefit scum, and vice versa, so I'm not saying anything for now.
 

Ty4on

Member
Sorry about that but at this stage its like. Everyone can be scum
What has kept you off of me?

I know that I'm now kinda cleared with Camjo claiming, but yesterday you seemed much more suspicious of Burb than me and Camjo. I don't remember seeing a scum reading from you on me.
 

nin1000

Banned
What has kept you off of me?

I know that I'm now kinda cleared with Camjo claiming, but yesterday you seemed much more suspicious of Burb than me and Camjo. I don't remember seeing a scum reading from you on me.

There was no way the voting traing would have gone for either your or Camjo, thats why i did it rest for that day. I had a feeling i was getting killed that night, thats why i wanted to remind Town that Burb Scum is still a possibility.
 

Burbeting

Banned
No matter what other's say, I still think the answers to some of the scum out there lie in what happened during Day 2. Scum was not going to let weemad die, they would be absolute morons if they did. If weemad would have survived, Scrafty would have checked them for sure (I mean, why not? Scrafty was going hard at weemad and vice versa, it wasn't exactly rocket science to see what would happen in that case). Saving weemad would mean that they would het confirmed town status, and everyone doubting weemad (except Scrafty) would look worse. Scum would have most likely killed Bronx that night to make Scrafty look more reliable as well.

I mostly believe that most of the roleclaims are legitimate, although there could be a scum hidden in there. But still, I'll look here into how all unclaimed players acted during pages 24-26, aka the last five hours of the day or so. At the start of page 24, there wasn't much push for weemad yet, apart from Scrafty's vote, and Tim voting at one point, later to unvote towards Kalor. There was also a vote from Xam, but that had been unvoted some time ago as well.


AbsolutBro:

- AB talks 2PM London Time about Scrafty's claim a little. Nothing too suspicious here, this was just before Scrafty revealed that Bronx is town.
- After Scrafty has revealed, AB discusses Xam's drink claim for a little bit. Says that it's suspicious, but fine with letting it play out, for now. There is also discussion about the possibility of the drink giver being a poisoner, a narrative that AB and Timeaisis started. In retrospect this conversation is pretty funny, with Ouro calling AB out from the poisoner narrative, since now Ouro has claimed to be the drink giver. Obviously Ouro wouldn't apporve to be called a poisoner.
- A little note on a confusing word I made in my reads list.
- AB makes a short note about Kalor's roleclaim. It sounded like he didn't exactly believe him based on the wording, but didn't act any further on it.
- At one hour to go before day end, AB hasn't put a vote in. He lampshades this himself, saying that "he is struggling on where to put it".
- AB votes for Fireblend here. At this point Fireblend has only one vote, so Absolut's vote pushes him to 2. Not enough to make Fire a vote leader, but definitely a possible lynch candidate, at this point Weemad, Kalor and Salva all had 3 votes each. The reasoning here is kinda flimsy, returning back to Day 1.
- The vote on Fireblend does not catch wind, and weemad/Salva definitely rise to big votes.
- AB then changes his vote to Weemad. This happens one minute after Terrabyte has drastically changed the vote leader from Salva to Weemad. It's possible that AB is bussing weemad right after seeing Terra change the tides, but that seems a little unlikely.


BananaSpacePrincess:

- She was completely absent during the latter part of D2. Her last post during that day was 10.30PM London Time the day before, when the deadline was 5PM London Time the next day. That means that she completely missed everything, take that as you will.


CzarTim:

- For Starters, Tim had voted for Weemad earlier that day, citing that "weemad feels like pushing an agenda." Later changes vote to Kalor, "I'd want to lynch a blender".
- Then later, in post 1155, Tim votes for Weemad again, due to weemad trying to push for Scrafty lynch. At this point, it changes the amount of votes Weemad had to 2, so not too threatening amount at this time.
- He throws some shade at weemad, "you're the scum here".
- After this, Tim is no longer around until the day ends, and Weemad is lynched. This is the reason why I think Tim is most likely scum out of the Weemad voters. Obviously saving weemad should have been scum priority, at least from my POV. Unlike everyone else voting for Weemad, Tim was not around the day end.


Fireblend:

- In page 23, Fire makes some light reads. Scrafty is still his top scum, and weemad is only slightly suspicious. He would want weemad to "stick around for little more".
- Fire had a vote on Scrafty for considerably long time. He finally revokes that vote at post 1153, after symphatising Weemad a little.
- Then he comments at Scrafty's claim, agreeing a little with weemadarthur a little that Scrafty is not giving out important information.
- Fire disappears for a little while. Then he returns to vote for Salva, which pushes him to 4 votes (me voting weemad drops it down to 3 later).
- Asks what the vote count is at that point. Ouro responds to this by posting the votecount, that reveals Weemad is tying the vote lead with Kalor and Salva.
- After that, Fire posts no more. If Fire is scum, his vote was already at Salva by this point, so I guess there wasn't much to do more. He wasn't actively encouraging people to push for Salva.


RobotNinjaHornets:

- RNH missed D2 end, but he missed everything else as well. Seath will basically start the game from completely empty table, which is actually not that good thing at all, since we can't analyse RNH's actions in relation to stuff like this.


Roytheone:

- Roy had put his vote on Kalor quite early in the day. Vote was based on the inconsistensies Kalor made while voting nin early to the D2.
- Page 24 starts with Roy defending Scrafty. Nothing too interesting in those posts. He also points out to me that Xam never claimed to be directly poisoned.
- Next time Roy returns after Kalor has claimed. Says that he doesn't believe the claim. At this point of time, Kalor has 3 votes, and still heavily contending for being lynched.
- Roy later agrees with me that the sudden surge of votes to Salva feels weird.
- And then no more posts from Roy. We now know that at the time, scum thought that Kalor was town. Even if they did catch on, I think that would have happened only in Night 2/Day 3, when they would have had enough time to go through everything that had happened in good detail. Weemad was voting for Kalor too, but switched to Salva once it became apparent that it was the only way to survive this crucial moment. So yeah, knowing that Kalor was the hidden partner, puts roy's actions in bit confusing light.



Salvapot:

- Salva is a really interesting case. He is the star of the show that was D2 end, yet he didn't post during that interval at all. He had a long post in page 23, but nothing later. I still think that he was really suspicious during D2 in general. In the long post, weemad is not mentioned.
- In the votecount posted at Post 1190, Kalor is leading the votes at 4. Scrafty, weemad and Salva have all 2. At this point there was no need for the push to Salva, everything was going swimmingly for scum (well, or so they thought, in relation to Kalor).
- But then Ouro votes for Salva in post 1198, pushing him to 3 votes. Ouro has claimed neutral marker later.
- At post 1200, Kalor claims commuter. I think it's fair to assume that this is a important point of shift in the day's end. Salva is at 3 votes at this point.
- Fire quickly jumps to vote for Salva, pushing him to 4.
- I unvote Salva, and vote for Weemad. This drops Salva to 3, and pushes Weemad to 3.
- Ouro posts a votecount in post 1226. Kalor, Salva and Weemad are tied.
- Launch and Xam vote for Salva in quick succession, pushing him to 5 votes. Intrestingly, both Xam and Launch have claimed very similar roles in terms of what the roles do.
- Then the last push for Weemad happens. Nin votes for weemad after I say that I haven't given up on weemad being lynched. Terra's vote to weemad is the one to change the vote leader from Salva to weemad. AB and Xam quickly follow.
- So what does this make of Salva? Like I said earlier, it seems heavily unlikely that Three scum would lead the votes. If Salva was scum, surely scum would try to push for Kalor lynch... unless the other scum were people not around, like BSP, RNH, CzarTim or Time.



Timeaisis:

- He had put a vote on Scrafty earlier, reasoning is partly tied to how Scrafty accused Weemadathur.
- Then... nothing. Like BSP, Time completely misses Day 2 end. He does appear at the start of D3, citing that weemad was not in his radar at all.


Ty4on:

- Ty has a vote on Bronx-Man at the start of page 24. He also tries to argue for Scrafty's innocence.
- Then Scrafty clears Bronx and Ty question here. This is little odd, why did Ty not believe the clear, after he had just defended Scrafty?
- After this, Ty says that he doesn't have any good targets to vote on. He notes that he town-reads Salva.
- Ouro calls out Ty4on from keeping his vote on Bronx.
- Later on Ty4on agrees with Camjo that Scrafty might still be scum. He then changes his vote to Kalor, giving a little weak reasoning. At this point the vote is definitely Salva vs Weemad, so from Scum perspective voting Kalor is little odd, unless Salva is scum too.
- After Weemad wins the vote, Ty4on has a very confused reaction. The reaction still feels very genuine to me, scum would at this time STFU, and keep quiet after fucking up.
- After reviewing Ty4on's posts, I'm now little more wary of Ty4on than I was before. Keeping vote on Bronx even after Scrafty has cleared him? Agreeing with Camjo that Scrafty is suspicious? Voting for Kalor, whom was Town from Scum POV? There is surprisngly lot of suspicious actions here, even if it's weighed down by not voting for Salva at a crucial moment, and the very genuine reaction of confusion when weemad got all those votes.
 

Kevyt

Member
Okay, I have finished catching up, and had some time to summarize the game so far.

Day 1:
- Everyone seems to be trying to figure out how the table mechanic works, and speculating whether or not sitting arrangements have anything to do with PR's and how they function.
- By the end of the day, Gryvan reaches the majority of votes, he is lynched in D1. Voting record as follows for Day 1:

launchpadmcq (0)
robotninjahornets 115 (395)
czartim 209 (224)
salvapot 217 (360)

ourobolus (2)
bananaspaceprincess 128 (363)
bronx-man 133
salvapot 469

roytheone (1)
terrabyte20xx 131
gryvan 146 (259)

gryvan (5)
fireblend 132
bananaspaceprincess 476
launchpadmcq 513
xamtheking 514
scraftydevil 567

ty4on (0)
launchpadmcq 147 (319)

nin1000 (0)
czartim 258 (359)
scraftydevil 404 (567)

absolutbro (2)
roytheone 312
burbeting 472

bronx-man (0)
launchpadmcq 319 (388)

salvapot (0)
czartim 359 (451)

czartim (0)
xamtheking 374 (514)
launchpadmcq 388 (513)

xamtheking (0)
burbeting 377 (472)

scraftydevil (2)
kingkitty 387
timeaisis 470

fireblend (4)
gryvan 418
robotninjahornets 474
absolutbro 496
ty4on 576

timeaisis (1)
czartim 451

terrabyte20xx (2)
ourobolus 457
kalor 473

karu (1)
ty4on 477 (576)
nin1000 479

Map for Day 1:
bDSn1Gy.png


- Weemad replaces Karu

Night 1:

- kingkitty is lynched, ordinary town.

Day 2:

- sitting arrangement has changed, as follows:

3wJKX48.png


- fire alarm changes the map again:

yH0LzMb.png


- camjo-z replaces Hyperactivity
- weemad is lynched, scum player

Weemadarthur, aka Pop-o-matic, the Nice Guy, has been lynched.

Final Votes for Day 2
weemadarthur (7)
xamtheking 652 (762)
czartim 805 (1138)
scraftydevil 883
czartim 1155
burbeting 1214
nin1000 1252
terrabyte20xx 1272
absolutbro 1274
xamtheking 1276

salvapot (4)
terrabyte20xx 830 (1272)
burbeting 1026 (1214)
ourobolus 1198
fireblend 1205
launchpadmcq 1236
xamtheking 1238 (1276)
weemadarthur 1275

scraftydevil (2)
fireblend 637 (1153)
weemadarthur 881 (1175)
timeaisis 1004
camjo-z 1113

kalor (2)
roytheone 876
ty4on 947 (1062)
czartim 1138 (1155)
nin1000 1139 (1252)
weemadarthur 1175 (1275)
launchpadmcq 1179 (1210)
ty4on 1254

nin1000 (1)
xamtheking 762 (842)
launchpadmcq 773 (1179)
kalor 868 (1143)
xamtheking 950 (961)
xamtheking 972 (1238)
launchpadmcq 1210 (1236)
bronx-man 1257

fireblend (1)
robotninjahornets 808
absolutbro 1234 (1274)

xamtheking (1)
salvapot 1123

hyperactivity/Camjo-Z (0)
burbeting 614 (1020)
xamtheking 842 (865)

burbeting (0)
nin1000 915 (1022)

robotninjahornets (0)
scraftydevil 851 (883)
kalor 1143 (1177)

timeaisis (0)
xamtheking 961 (972)

bronx-man (0)
ty4on 1062 (1254)

terrabyte20xx (0)
czartim 629 (802)

absolutbro (0)
ourobolus 863 (999)

Night 2:
- Scrafty Devil town cop is night killed.

Day 3:
- some players start talking about the arsonist and being doused (note Ouro and Roy - N1 and N2).
- Bronx-man role claims Bear Lover, town aligned.
- another fire alarm and another map change:

8W21qFN.png


- talk of players that can visit other players?
- nin100 role claims ultron87, motion tracker, town aligned.
- ty4on claims ordinary town.
- Terra can detect when his neighbors move, two motion detectors??
- Terrabyte20xx doesn't know "how many had night activity just that it happened"
- I replace RNH.
- kalor gets lynched, scum player.

Voting record??

Night 3:

- Bronx-man gets night killed, town player and bear lover.

Night 4:
- Map changes:

6VPYUhM.png


- Burbeting claims to be crab, even night commuter who participates in poligaf (lol the flavor here is hilarious...)
- Someone claims to give out drinks and is neutral? Forgot who this was.
- camjo-z claims arsonist. Helpful to town??

--------

And that's all I have.

I know I'm missing stuff, such as who received drinks and such, and nope I have not received any drinks to my knowledge, and I wasn't notified if RNH received any.

I will say what I always say in every game I participate.

Nobody is proven town until lynched or nigh killed, for all we know everyone is a suspect, some more than others.

However, I do like Burbeting's line of thinking in many of his posts and for this reason he is my top town. I think he's on the right track here.

I am not sure what to think of the arsonist claim. I'm not sure of camjo-z is half lying or if he can even be helpful to town.

I have some doubts about the player who claimed to give out the drinks and what his or her win condition is.

I have doubts about xamtheking and mostly day 2, and his voting record.

It's important that we look at the voting record, especifically day 2 and go from there.

Lastly, I think two words that pretty much apply to this game more than others: Occam's Razor.

I know I'm late making a post but I had to read 52 pages to catch up, and I know I'm missing stuff. Also, I wrote this on mobile!

Some quick things: not sure how role claiming this early is helpful given that we have lost Scrafty and Bronx-man, who were not even on the chopping block and got night killed.

I don't think it's a good thing for town to claim this early, it will hurt us in the long run.

I'm also worried about Bananas low activity.

But fear not...

The Sloth is in the house!

giphy.gif


Let the scum hunt begin. The real game starts now~

o/
 

Kevyt

Member
I wrote that in mobile so please excuse the typos and horrible formatting!

Happy mother's day to all of you who celebrate mother's day!!

Also, I don't think turbo-ing the day is helpful.
 
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