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[Aquamarine]

To get money. It's not like they were trying to hide that fact or anything.

The thing is, there are other platforms.

Kickstarter is not a donation platform. It's an enabling platform where *the project will not be funded unless we get X Y Z money*

Penny Arcade is exploiting Kickstarter's advertising and prominence.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

How is this diluting Kickstarter any more than any of the other 'we could make a product if you want it and fund it' projects like...well, pretty much any Kickstarter ever?

Saying 'they could do it without Kickstarter' is really no more applicable than it is for every other project on Kickstarter. Kickstarter doesn't give a shit, why should we?

Because those projects can only be achieved with people help. You need people money because otherwise you can't make it. That's the spirit behind Kickstarter.

Saying you need 10$ means that you don't actually need the money to do it. You can do it on your own.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pennyarcade/penny-arcades-podcast-downloadable-content-the-ret

This is just about the most vile and disgusting use of kickstarter that I've seen. These guys don't have the capital to start a podcast?

??

Haven't there been two high profile gaming podcast kickstarters last year? Why is this wrong?

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Why do you assume they don't know any better?

I like to think at least some, if not most, of those involved are obliviously unaware they are being taken for a ride. The Kickstarter is advertised as being to pay for a $10 Podcast, do you think they weren't expecting to rake in thousands out of this? Especially given they lampooned the whole concept of conning money out of the gullible and vulnerable in a comic.

Why do you feel this is right?

Nobody is being ripped off here so that example is invalid.

So you think five thousand dollars is a reasonable price for having some random dumbshit with no musical talent from the internet write a song you'll never listen to? How about one thousands dollars to play half an hour on Xbox Live with the millionaires you just forked it over to?

 

[jakonovski]

Because nobody is being ripped off. It's pretty damn simple.

Millionaires get richer and people who paid get jack shit in return at best. At worst they lose a significant chunk of change because they want to live vicariously through internet celebrity millionaires, who take advantage of that emotional insecurity. I call that a rip off.

 

[itsgreen]

If they were going to do it regardless, what's the fucking point of setting up a Kickstarter in the first place?

Enabling people to be a part of it?

Publicly showing donations?

 

[marrec]

Embarassing.

And to only ask for a 10$ goal is basically making sure they take all the money no matter how much they get. It's also kind of exploiting the system. You don't need 10 bucks if you had access to internet in the first place (hell they have a website, a web comic and gaming conventions).

I understand now why they were supportive of that RPG camp lady scam.

They may try to explain away the $10 goal by saying they didn't want to set a level so high that people give them too much money for it...

But then, why kickstart in the first place if you don't have a specific funding level in mind? It's very disturbing.

 

[Ferrio]

Oh man the fact this comic has a 10 dollar goal and is also currently at 13,000 is hilarious you can't make this up, I wonder if anyone who read this actually donated.

I accidently quoted the editted one though, my bad.

 

[Neiteio]

Are people saying "its only 10!!" lobotomized? It's part of what makes this so gross. Setting the goal low so: a) they have no goal to miss and possibly lose out on getting the funds b) turn the entire thing into a stretch goal ratrace c) have a "but we only asked for 10!" fallback argument that you clowns are carrying out for them is pretty scummy.

But people don't have to donate. No one is forcing anyone to donate.

 

[Zombie James]

 

[Pureauthor]

They're a massive entity now, you don't think they could of done that without a kickstarter? It's bullshit plain a simple. Kickstarters are for people who are unable to find the funds to startup their buisness. This buisness is well past that.

They didn't say they needed the kickstarter for this. That's the point. This is a 'Give me money please' statement and the fans are going 'okay.'

 

[Dark Octave]

Wow. Four or five mics, a mixer, I'm sure someone has a PC or Mac lying around and a room. And you don't even NEED the mixer or PC for recording, to be honest.

 

[Curufinwe]

The thing is, there are other platforms.

Kickstarter is not a donation platform. It's an enabling platform where *the project will not be funded unless we get X Y Z money*

Penny Arcade is exploiting Kickstarter's advertising and prominence.

Kickstarter is a way to make Kickstarter's owners' money.

 

[Salaadin]

PA's doing nothing wrong. PA made their offer. You're free to like it. You're free to hate it. You're free to fund it. You're free to NOT fund it. You know what you're getting, because they told you. You want it, you pay for it, however much you see fit. You don't want it, you don't pay for it, you walk away. No one is forcing anyone to donate. People can Kickstart whatever they want, because no one is forcing anyone to donate.

I have no problem with the donors, I dont think PA s forcing anyone to donate, but I think what PA is doing here is shitty....and in a thread about it on a message board made for discussing all kinda of things, Im going to say it.

 

[UrbanRats]

Are people saying "its only 10!!" lobotomized? It's part of what makes this so gross. Setting the goal low so: a) they have no goal to miss and possibly lose out on getting the funds b) turn the entire thing into a stretch goal ratrace c) have a "but we only asked for 10!" fallback argument that you clowns are carrying out for them is pretty scummy.

That is indeed the gross thing about this.
Pretty shameful, if i gave a shit about PA, i would not support this on that basis alone.

 

[Risette]

But people don't have to donate. No one is forcing anyone to donate.

Irrelevant.

 

[Ferrio]

They didn't say they needed the kickstarter for this. That's the point. This is a 'Give me money please' statement and the fans are going 'okay.'

Which... you see nothing wrong with? Kickstarters are for people who need it, ,putting it up as a kickstarter to begin with is intentionally misleading people.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Riskless business ventures are where it's at, bros.

 

[SMT]

The inherent purpose of a Kickstarter is to define the boundaries of a project and see it delivered when said boundaries are funded.

Because PA aren't setting up any kind of minimum boundaries, their promise / ability to fulfill the project is completely up in the air.

This is a complete subversion of everything Kickstarter stands for, and like the Susan Wilson Kickstarter, this should be shut down.

I completely agree, pin this post!

 

[Foxtastical]

You're dehumanizing and homogenizing their fans. Are you a big fan of anything? If you are, would you willingly pay money for something related to your fandom? Should people second-guess your autonomy when you make that choice?

At least question it. We should always be questioning the stupid ass shit we do in the name of "fandom."

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

If they were going to do it regardless, what's the fucking point of setting up a Kickstarter in the first place?

This is a fair point.

Why do they need Kickstarter when they have a large, established fanbase to whom they can directly appeal?

Perhaps it adds a structure to the process, plus they can lay out all kinds of rewards and tiers and what have you.

If it's really against KS terms to fund an existing business, then that's a good reason to object to this project. I wouldn't get mad about it, though.

 

[itsgreen]

I like to think at least some, if not most, of those involved are obliviously unaware they are being taken for a ride. The Kickstarter is advertised as being to pay for a $10 Podcast, do you think they weren't expecting to rake in thousands out of this? Especially given they lampooned the whole concept of conning money out of the gullible and vulnerable in a comic.

And exactly what is wrong with that?

The 10$ is just them indicating they'll do it no matter what, you guys make way to much out of the goal. This whole kickstarter is about "We are going to do this, you wan't to support us you can. Pay whatever you think this is worth."

Is it actually Kickstarting? No.
Is that scummy? No.

 

[Sheroking]

They didn't say they needed the kickstarter for this. That's the point. This is a 'Give me money please' statement and the fans are going 'okay.'

Do it with PayPal on their site.

Kickstarter is not about this. I'm actually surprised it's not against their rules.

 

[ultron87]

Which... you see nothing wrong with?

Well it is no different than any other business selling a product.

 

[kuroshiki]

Whatever.

People, spend your money the way you see fit.

 

[Foxtastical]

Riskless business ventures are where it's at, bros.

Bro, you gotta take money to make money.

 

[partyphone]

??

Haven't there been two high profile gaming podcast kickstarters last year? Why is this wrong?

They don't need the money and they clearly know their fans will give them way more money than it will actually take to produce a podcast.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Millionaires get richer and people who paid get jack shit in return at best. At worst they lose a significant chunk of change because they want to live vicariously through internet celebrity millionaires, who take advantage of that emotional insecurity. I call that a rip off.

I tell you I'm selling a car that doesn't work. You give me $10,000 for it. How did I rip you off?

A rip off insinuates they are hiding something. They aren't. It's your free will to buy or not.

 

[Valnen]

You've been throwing A LOT of smoke and mirrors in this thread. The bolded can be done quite easily without the need for Kickstarter or Indiegogo.

So explain to me the NEED for this project again.

As i'm trying to understand it, they could have easily put a donation button on their site, made a short vid and banked on the goodwill and loyalty of their fans.

Why does their need to be some dire need for it to exist?

Which... you see nothing wrong with?

No. Why would anyone?

 

[Ferrio]

Well it is no different than any other business selling a product.

What?!?! How can you even equate the two, they're not even remotely alike.

 

[Zomba13]

Do it with PayPal on their site.

Kickstarter is not about this. I'm actually surprised it's not against their rules.

It's not as this has a goal (fund a podcast) rather than 'give us money'.
Then again it's not like KS care about their rules anyway so even if it was 'just give us money' it wouldn't get shut down anyway.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

At least question it. We should always be questioning the stupid ass shit we do in the name of "fandom."

You're right that extreme fandom produces what appears from the outside to be irrational behavior. That's not what we're talking about (in all likelihood) for the majority of these donors.

What if we don't call it "fandom." What if it's just having preferences or tastes that lead us to value something enough to pay for it?

 

[Neiteio]

Irrelevant.

It is the decision of the people whether they fund this. That is a fact.

Bam.

Whatever.

People, spend your money the way you see fit.

This guy gets it.

 

[Pureauthor]

Which... you see nothing wrong with? Kickstarters are for people who need it, ,putting it up as a kickstarter to begin with is intentionally misleading people.

Ok, I admit to not knowing that Kickstarters were only for people who had exhausted their other options or something. In which case it's probably up to the Kickstarter admins to kick them for rule violation.

 

[kiunchbb]

This is the same as indie bundle, pay whatever you want for something you could get for a penny. I am not going to call someone stupid for giving 1000 bucks to the developer for one bundle.

I don't see how this is a scam, this kickstarter is more legit than 90% of the kickstarter out there, since PA had great track records of delivering products that people expect.

Or GAF just hate the fact that they are millionairs?

 

[ultron87]

What?!?! How can you even equate the two, they're not even remotely alike.

This campaign, at its core, is "give us ten bucks and you get 20 podcast episodes". Pretty clear transaction. And then you can get more stuff if you want to pay more.

 

[RedNumberFive]

Neurosyphilis?

This is the only explanation. Who else would pay $1000 to play XBL with these hacks?

 

[def sim]

I have no problem with the donors, I dont think PA s forcing anyone to donate, but I think what PA is doing here is shitty....and in a thread about it on a message board made for discussing all kinda of things, Im going to say it.

This is fair. The ridiculous thing in this thread are the people making it out to be an actual scam rather than a possibly morally ambiguous deal.

 

[Risette]

It is the decision of the people whether they fund this. That is a fact.

Bam.

That has nothing to do with what I said, however.

Did you know that if people fund this, they must have money? Wow! Useless facts are great!

 

[The_Lump]

If people are dumb enough to donate, they deserve to be ripped off. It's essential for mankind's evolution that idiocy be punishable.

So of you think about it....PA are providing a pretty valuable service.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

They didn't say they needed the kickstarter for this. That's the point. This is a 'Give me money please' statement and the fans are going 'okay.'

Then they shouldn't be doing it through Kickstarter. It defeats the purpose of the site.

 

[Joni]

Which... you see nothing wrong with? Kickstarters are for people who need it, ,putting it up as a kickstarter to begin with is intentionally misleading people.

Then they shouldn't be doing it through Kickstarter. It defeats the purpose of the site.

Strange, because that is not what Kickstarter claims. Kickstarter actually says projects where you don't need the money, are also perfectly fine.
http://www.kickstarter.com/start?ref=footer

I'd like to use Kickstarter to get my project out there, but I don't really need money. Is that okay?
Absolutely. Kickstarter is about more than just money. A Kickstarter project is a great way to connect with your audience and spread the word about your work.

 

[Neiteio]

This is the same as indie bundle, pay whatever you want for something you could get for a penny. I am not going to call someone stupid for giving 1000 bucks to the developer for one bundle.

I don't see how this is a scam, this kickstarter is more legit than 90% of the kickstarter out there, since PA had great track records of delivering products that people expect.

Or GAF just hate the fact that they are millionairs?

/thread

 

[Foxtastical]

You're right that extreme fandom produces what appears from the outside to be irrational behavior. That's not what we're talking about (in all likelihood) for the majority of these donors.

What if we don't call it "fandom." What if it's just having preferences or tastes that lead us to value something enough to pay for it?

I'd still question it. Christ, always question why you're spending money.

And especially question your spending when what you're paying for is promises/future product.

 

[Samurai_Heart]

Wow this is pretty disgusting...

 

[SMT]

Or GAF just hate the fact that they are millionairs?

I hate that too, you caught me. I'm terribly jealous of their financial status.
And the fact that I wouldn't get nearly as much if I were to start a kickstarter for a better purpose.

 

[Wuthering_Heights]

Whatever.

People, spend your money the way you see fit.

Pretty much.

 

[BiggNife]

But people don't have to donate. No one is forcing anyone to donate.

I don't think anything he said implied that.

The point that people against this are trying to make was made pretty succinctly here:

The inherent purpose of a Kickstarter is to define the boundaries of a project and see it delivered when said boundaries are funded.

Because PA aren't setting up any kind of minimum boundaries, their promise / ability to fulfill the project is completely up in the air.

This is a complete subversion of everything Kickstarter stands for, and like the Susan Wilson Kickstarter, this should be shut down.

This is exactly why it comes off as really sketchy to me. If you want to donate $200 anyway, then go for it. But I think it is completely reasonable for people to be bothered by the fact that Gabe and Tycho are using KS for reasons other than what KS was originally intended for.

 

[Valnen]

I like to think at least some, if not most, of those involved are obliviously unaware they are being taken for a ride.

And that is why you are wrong.

 

[jakonovski]

I tell you I'm selling a car that doesn't work. You give me $10,000 for it. How did I rip you off?

A rip off insinuates they are hiding something. They aren't. It's your free will to buy or not.

Paying 10k for a broken car is just another business transaction? Wouldn't you get a feeling that the dumbass paying might have some issues and that taking his money like that might be a shitty thing to do?