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Pineapple Pizza Mafia |OT| The War On Fruit Pizza
- Thread starter Sophia
- Start date
Someone make a case for Swamped that does not involve the vote switch or the vanilla claim. Because if we're lynching someone for being vanilla BB contributes the least of the three standing (unless acorn is actually claiming vanilla too which I'm not sure he has refuted yet). The vote switch is still flimsy as hell reasoning because you can argue it any which way you want making it meaningless.
Isn't vanilla usually 50% or so of a game? I would imagine around 25% then at most for role madness.
We have had 68 hours to cross-examine acohrs and Swamped. If we jump off of those two right now, we will have no time to construct detailed arguments or make in-depth analysis of a new lynch candidate.
We certainly don't have time to sort through a list of three different candidates. If you want us to consider someone other than Swamped or acohrs, then pick one name and make a strong case, right now. We don't have the time or luxury to be wishy-washy.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
50% of town or 50% of all players?
People can vote for and make cases for whoever they want. Why are you so interested in narrowing the conversation down?
This type of reasoning tries to justify town v town lynches by and large.
My understanding was 50% of all players
Alright, which one of you mothercluckers snitched?
hey_monkey
Banned
We're also close to a tie. Again.
I'm glad people have questioned achors somehow not knowing about LL being cleared (and seeing Sophia's post but thinking it was a joke?), because for me right now, that's the biggest question mark. Scum would know. Is scum playing dumb or is acohrs just less active, less attention-oriented, and missing stuff? That also means no great loss but maybe makes him not the best lynch today. But I'm just not feeling Swamped.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I'm not sure I follow.
ok, but that doesn't really tell us who and we definitely don't know if this is even the case right now.
hey_monkey
Banned
Or rather, we have a current tie now that Blarg unvoted, but it's hours yet to go.
Launch, now that you're backing off Swamped, and pushing uncertainty, where are you going?
Burb, I may have missed reasoning on Stan - I vaguely remember, maybe? - but is it inactivity or the style of the activity?
Launch, now that you're backing off Swamped, and pushing uncertainty, where are you going?
Burb, I may have missed reasoning on Stan - I vaguely remember, maybe? - but is it inactivity or the style of the activity?
The lack on content in his posts, the feel that he hoesnt really take any stances.
1. Sky is more less saying 'You can't talk about any other candidates but swamped or acohrs, or at the most you can mention one name!'. Aka. He wants to limit the lynch candidates to these two... why? Town v town would only benefit scum.
2. I'm not scum reading swamped or acohrs right now. So I think it's town v town, even if can't be known for sure.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I don't want a tie, so I'm going to vote to break it. It's too late to make a case on anyone, but dammit, I don't think it's an accident Palmer jumped on Swamped as soon as she claimed. This guy is really starting to stink to me.
Do you guys really think the voting snafu at the end of day 1 from Swamped was an accident?
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Oh, I see. I was kind of thinking the same though, trying to change the flow of the vote with a few hours to go seems counter-productive. I wouldn't say don't make your case, though.
hey_monkey
Banned
I thought I posted this earlier, but I guess I closed that tab instead of posting.
BB has really only done one thing of substance since all that, outside of little stuff like defending 30/poking oreo and replacement based on anime. But this was the only post with any substance, and it's still light. Defensive move against Dr. Worm. Who I feel has maybe laid kinda low on this day? But I could be wrong - I haven't dug into him recently and I'm not trying to construct narratives here.
hey_monkey
Banned
shruggie. 50/50? But as I've said before, when it was the only reason, it was pretty flimsy. Especially with other things that could have been said about Swamped but weren't pursued. (Not saying they were necessarily scummy or not, just that y'all who were pushing her were all just vote vote vote vote she knew!)
Blargonaut
Banned
Slow this shit down, I'm objectively processing
We have about four hours, and we've been making meandering through a number of different thoughts today. We're not yet at the point of collapse into bandwagons, though it's approaching
Just woke up to this clusterfuck, great. What in depth arguments are you talking about? Most of those same arguments stem from either a vote switch last day phase 'swamped' or just general nitpicking 'Acohrs'. Everything I've seen for 'the last 68 hours' can be summed up like that, so yeah, if someone makes a convincing argument I'll listen to them. Because I'm sick of being led into mislynch thunder domes in GAFIA with everyone screaming take a risk for the flip.
On the matter of Swamped claiming vanilla...I don't believe it. I previously stated that some of the people who previously claimed ordinary are lying, maybe all of them (sans Dragon) but it's very weird. Normally when Mafia is on the chopping block their teammates do one of two things, BUS BUS BUS BUS or try and switch the votes up frequently. I haven't seen either yet. (You can't have thought Lifeline of all people, inscrutable as he is would have after he was confirmed town) I think we could have a TT dome on our hands that some people would kill to see.
Well, and this isn't personal, out of all the vanilla claims I'm less likely to believe Palmer after going through his posts yesterday. Those weren't the posts of someone merely interested in scum hunting, they were looking for survival day 1. I'm sure he thought claiming ordinary would be a novelty but then a mass rush of ordinary claims start pouring in, dragon gets assassinated (Maybe the assassin believed she wasn't ordinary/wanted to prove there was, I don't know) and now there are about 5 vanilla claims. Palmer previously said day 1 he was sure there weren't a large amount of vanilla roles, which I'm guessing he's going to append to mean less than half the playerbase, but this doesn't seem like town behavior. He very much wants everyone to believe he's vanilla, I'm of the mind that this is a weird new gambit.
Acohrs is often a bit inattentive, maybe reading the thread, I think that's not his playstyle and just how he is.
Last couple pages:
Going nowhere with no solid leads -> acohrs comes in finally and starts pushing Swamped -> Swamped reveals role -> Swamped bandwagon starts growing a lot -> Pushback occurs with how easy the bandwagon was going, people remove votes -> acohrs wagon gains a bit of traction, but doesn't go anywhere -> things settle down -> Some people start trying to push a BB lynch without actually voting (scummy behavior).
Everyone saying BB all of the sudden are very suspicious at this point. But i'm gonna keep my vote on Acohrs.
Going nowhere with no solid leads -> acohrs comes in finally and starts pushing Swamped -> Swamped reveals role -> Swamped bandwagon starts growing a lot -> Pushback occurs with how easy the bandwagon was going, people remove votes -> acohrs wagon gains a bit of traction, but doesn't go anywhere -> things settle down -> Some people start trying to push a BB lynch without actually voting (scummy behavior).
Everyone saying BB all of the sudden are very suspicious at this point. But i'm gonna keep my vote on Acohrs.
Just to ask, what about Acohrs is so attractive for you?
If you want the vote to descend into muddled chaos at the eleventh hour, be my guest. But only scum will benefit from the resulting confusion. To me, this sounds like you bunch are just waiting for a bandwagon to hitch a ride on.
I don't care if this is a town versus town lynch, voting patterns and after-the-fact analysis will still tell us something of use. We learn nothing from a vote that comes out of nowhere in the last hour. 95% chance the lynched would be town too, since scum will have more control over the chaos.
I am still confident about acohrs and Swamped, though. There has been enough strange behavior around them that a lynch will at least put some questions to bed and let us move onwards.
1. He was scum in Arkham and behaved very similarly
2. He for some reasons keeps ignoring the votes against him, especially the ones by Swamped who has tried to bandwagon him twice now.
3. He put his swamped vote reasoning as my posts, effectively moving the blame on me if she flips town.
4. He's been coasting for most of this game
5. How quickly a bandwagon started on Swamped, after achors vote.
6. He keeps hinting that he is vanilla.
7. I want to get revenge on him for Arkham
8. If he's town, we won't lose much.
My only worry is that if he flips town instead of mafia, we have to go back to our vanilla situation and I really don't want to drag that another day.
2. He for some reasons keeps ignoring the votes against him, especially the ones by Swamped who has tried to bandwagon him twice now.
3. He put his swamped vote reasoning as my posts, effectively moving the blame on me if she flips town.
4. He's been coasting for most of this game
5. How quickly a bandwagon started on Swamped, after achors vote.
6. He keeps hinting that he is vanilla.
7. I want to get revenge on him for Arkham
8. If he's town, we won't lose much.
My only worry is that if he flips town instead of mafia, we have to go back to our vanilla situation and I really don't want to drag that another day.
If you believe the Swamped vote is scummy then you MUST believe BB is scum. The vote swap did literally nothing as far as saving Palmer. It just switched who was tied with him. If Swamped was protecting anyone it has to be BB. Yet that's not the angle you're taking and thus I find your argument more than lacking.
That's super flawed reasoning. If this is town v town then scum don't give a fuck what happens. They can sit on their votes regardless and be fine. You know what's actually better at finding scum? Chaos. Making them switch and move and vote more. Limiting this to two candidates and then following it up by saying you think that's best even if they're both town makes very little sense. If they're both town then what incentive do scum have to move votes today?
hey_monkey
Banned
I would agree that the one vanilla claim who hasn't been under great suspicion is Palmer .Palmer was away (legit) which tempered some of it. There was some press and some votes, but even Swamped - who he's now voting - said multiple times that she wanted to keep Palmer from getting killed. That plus playing more defense rather than scumhunting would be real versions to lynch Swamped for me.
I am disinclined to fully go in on Palmer for several reasons. First, he's super active and I do think we should clear some suspicious inactives. Second, he will crush me, no doubt, and people will listen because he's Palmer and he's very good at getting people to listen to him even when he's yelling. I'm not super about self-preservation because I don't think individual townies matter overmuch, but I'm not vanilla and would rather not die just because of the wrath of Palmer.
But the biggest thing for me is that I'm not sure Palmer is scum hunting as much as hunting people who have questioned Palmer. He started the game being so helpful and explanatory and providing everything, even down to how to play, so his vanilla claim seemed like, well, okay. There was some questioning of it, but not a ton, thanks to how it was presented. Even the gf slant was helpful. Scum wouldn't be so open, would they?
He confessed later he'd also missed something about the role madness, something that had to do with his role pm, but when I asked him about it he was the cagiest I've ever seen him. Even invoked Sophia. Out of politeness, when asked to let that go, I did. But it's stuck in my head. Can't unstick it. It was the least Palmer move I've ever seen Palmer make. I don't know if that means it's legit there was some issue or if that was just him counting on everyone listening and leaving it alone. Why would it be out of bounds?
I don't know if I'm being shitty bringing it back up again. Dunno how the community is about such things. But I'm trying to be transparent.
So instead I'll turn back to Palmer's insistence that we focus on inactives. But now he's on Swamped. And his reasoning sounds so... reasonable, like this:
But while he acknowledges now that maybe he shouldn't have d1 claimed and he wonders if all the vanillas are there, he's still on Swamped.
I have doubts. I'm not convinced, but I have suspicions. I've said over and over that I find Palmer a very difficult read. I did misread him as scum in anime - and vice versa. But he's different here. Palmer puts the work in. But sometimes I read his analysis and I think... not really? No? But he's such a high volume poster that it's hard to go through all of them (pot, kettle, black right here).
But what the hell. I'm gonna put it out there, though I expect it will not go far, just as Verelios's didn't. And as of today, maybe it shouldn't. But if he is scum or neutral, he dominates the conversation. And it's something we should watch out for.
I am disinclined to fully go in on Palmer for several reasons. First, he's super active and I do think we should clear some suspicious inactives. Second, he will crush me, no doubt, and people will listen because he's Palmer and he's very good at getting people to listen to him even when he's yelling. I'm not super about self-preservation because I don't think individual townies matter overmuch, but I'm not vanilla and would rather not die just because of the wrath of Palmer.
But the biggest thing for me is that I'm not sure Palmer is scum hunting as much as hunting people who have questioned Palmer. He started the game being so helpful and explanatory and providing everything, even down to how to play, so his vanilla claim seemed like, well, okay. There was some questioning of it, but not a ton, thanks to how it was presented. Even the gf slant was helpful. Scum wouldn't be so open, would they?
He confessed later he'd also missed something about the role madness, something that had to do with his role pm, but when I asked him about it he was the cagiest I've ever seen him. Even invoked Sophia. Out of politeness, when asked to let that go, I did. But it's stuck in my head. Can't unstick it. It was the least Palmer move I've ever seen Palmer make. I don't know if that means it's legit there was some issue or if that was just him counting on everyone listening and leaving it alone. Why would it be out of bounds?
I don't know if I'm being shitty bringing it back up again. Dunno how the community is about such things. But I'm trying to be transparent.
So instead I'll turn back to Palmer's insistence that we focus on inactives. But now he's on Swamped. And his reasoning sounds so... reasonable, like this:
But while he acknowledges now that maybe he shouldn't have d1 claimed and he wonders if all the vanillas are there, he's still on Swamped.
I have doubts. I'm not convinced, but I have suspicions. I've said over and over that I find Palmer a very difficult read. I did misread him as scum in anime - and vice versa. But he's different here. Palmer puts the work in. But sometimes I read his analysis and I think... not really? No? But he's such a high volume poster that it's hard to go through all of them (pot, kettle, black right here).
But what the hell. I'm gonna put it out there, though I expect it will not go far, just as Verelios's didn't. And as of today, maybe it shouldn't. But if he is scum or neutral, he dominates the conversation. And it's something we should watch out for.
hey_monkey
Banned
Don't think I linked it. This was Verelios's post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=237887637&postcount=1581
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I do believe that, though, but I didn't think that needed explaining past "yeah, if she did this as scum, then she was protecting BB". It's not like I have much else to go on for BB other than some reads that don't really hold up.
The problem is I that now am not sure on Swamped, so I'm not sure on BB.
So what, we should just unvote and start throwing darts at a dartboard and hope we hit scum? I don't buy the idea that all of our debates, arguments, and analysis is pointless, and that we should instead just rely on last minute voting gambits to draw out scum.
I honestly think we are on to something today, and that scum is getting nervous. If scum is in the lynch, then they have every reason to put votes down. I don't want to just throw my hands up in the air and let town get cold feet on a likely scum lynch. A town versus town lynch isn't guaranteed, it is just an assumption. We won't know anything until we press.
Besides, I never even said that Burbeting had to pick acohrs or Swamped. Rather, if he wanted to pick a third option, I implored him to simply pick one and make a choice. We are past the point of fishing around for bites by throwing out lists of three possible scum. The time for that was 36 hours ago.
Sure, but the moment they saw this they doubled down even though before they weren't too bothered by the vanilla claims.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
So, what compelled you to vote Swamped over Palmer?
Then why weren't you pushing that angle before? You listed him as not even the most likely scenario for a Swamped partner but now your story changes to fit the situation?
I never said we should pick at random, but with what you're describing we could see vote stagnation and get literally no info if the person flips town.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Because I didn't agree that it was when WAMD was still alive?
We will have 72 hours worth of diacussion and volatile votes to go back over and analyze. That will be plenty of information.
I don't want to give scum any wiggle room to waffle around and be noncommittal.
It just sounds like as you get new information you're changing the reasoning to still fit your conclusion.
Well I guess we'll just have to disagree. I still think vote policing is scummy.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
...that's exactly what I've been doing.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
01. [m] isaacnukem - New - UTC+8
Has done nothing but coast and come to post and throwing shade or trying to spread misinformation.
02. [m] Moonkid - New - GMT+12 Replaced by [m] LaunchpadMcQ.
Couldn't get much from moonkids posts so on to launchpad. I see the logic behind his push for Swamped but it feels like tunnel vision and its based mostly on her end of the day D1 vote. Then does a complete 180 when she claims without flavor, that doesn't sit right with me when you tunnelled so deep on her.
03. [they] Darryl - EST
Honestly he feels genuine seems like town trying to piece everything together albeit a bit aggressively but he makes some good points
04. [m] Lifeline - EST
We know he is town but he is like the village idiot at this point. I don't feel like reading through his short novel.
05. [m] SkyOdin - PDT
His Oreo vote was strange it was based on Oreo being scum last game but at the time there really wasn't much to support that train of thought, especially when you later on say this to Sawneeks Seems to focus a lot on LL´s mechanic. Its a bit too vanilla for my taste like trying not to piss anyone off or attract attention too himself. He asks a lot of questions doesn't give many answers.
06. [f] hey_monkey - EST
So yeah Monkey 200 comments dayum girl, solid read lists definitely puts in the effort i wish i could do that. Her logic checks out shes active she asks and answers questions and her style of posting hasnt really changed much from anime mafia. Her saying Isaac might be replaced is a logical conclusion when he has been absent for most of the game i do not see this as a defense for Isaac, later on she attacks him for his lets just shoot all people that claimed vanilla stance.
08. [m] Dr. Worm - EST
Still think its strange he completely ignored Dragonz his scum-town list was weak but he says it was intentional or maybe it was just scum getting caught with a weak read list. Questions my decision to vote Darryl but is okay with Skyodin sitting on Oreo for no reason at all. Gave his read list when nobody asked eager to please or scum trying to look like he is contributing? You say Burbetings opinion are too well reasoned and that might make him scum thats kinda of a weird conclusion. Brings up a weird theory where Scum can vanilalize somebody huh? Then trie for a low key push on Swamped, Then jumps right back on me as soon as the opportunity strikes. I dont trust Worm i don't feel that the list was used as a way to lure out scum.
There is more on the way but god its a lot of work.
Has done nothing but coast and come to post and throwing shade or trying to spread misinformation.
02. [m] Moonkid - New - GMT+12 Replaced by [m] LaunchpadMcQ.
Couldn't get much from moonkids posts so on to launchpad. I see the logic behind his push for Swamped but it feels like tunnel vision and its based mostly on her end of the day D1 vote. Then does a complete 180 when she claims without flavor, that doesn't sit right with me when you tunnelled so deep on her.
03. [they] Darryl - EST
Honestly he feels genuine seems like town trying to piece everything together albeit a bit aggressively but he makes some good points
04. [m] Lifeline - EST
We know he is town but he is like the village idiot at this point. I don't feel like reading through his short novel.
05. [m] SkyOdin - PDT
His Oreo vote was strange it was based on Oreo being scum last game but at the time there really wasn't much to support that train of thought, especially when you later on say this to Sawneeks Seems to focus a lot on LL´s mechanic. Its a bit too vanilla for my taste like trying not to piss anyone off or attract attention too himself. He asks a lot of questions doesn't give many answers.
06. [f] hey_monkey - EST
So yeah Monkey 200 comments dayum girl, solid read lists definitely puts in the effort i wish i could do that. Her logic checks out shes active she asks and answers questions and her style of posting hasnt really changed much from anime mafia. Her saying Isaac might be replaced is a logical conclusion when he has been absent for most of the game i do not see this as a defense for Isaac, later on she attacks him for his lets just shoot all people that claimed vanilla stance.
08. [m] Dr. Worm - EST
Still think its strange he completely ignored Dragonz his scum-town list was weak but he says it was intentional or maybe it was just scum getting caught with a weak read list. Questions my decision to vote Darryl but is okay with Skyodin sitting on Oreo for no reason at all. Gave his read list when nobody asked eager to please or scum trying to look like he is contributing? You say Burbetings opinion are too well reasoned and that might make him scum thats kinda of a weird conclusion. Brings up a weird theory where Scum can vanilalize somebody huh? Then trie for a low key push on Swamped, Then jumps right back on me as soon as the opportunity strikes. I dont trust Worm i don't feel that the list was used as a way to lure out scum.
There is more on the way but god its a lot of work.
