I'm typing it up now, this thread is going to be very very large and very very informative, it's got most every question you'd have answered after just day one, but we are still working hard on it.
we've made a few advanced tactic discoveries and things like that as well, I just got back so I better get to typing now, thanks for your patience.
MOST IMPORTANT UPDATE. THE GAME IS FREAKING FUN.
The air dodge. Obviously this is one of the big changes in Brawl.
Airdodge is no longer directional, making wavedashing (in the same sense) impossible (be patient people we have more info on things like that soon), you can airdodge and then jump, but you all knew this already.
Honestly the lack of a wavedash as of now doesn't seem to be too detrimental. It's obviously a change but the change of pase on the game in general makes this seem like it wont be as important, especially with a few of the techniques we discovered being available (details on those later obviously)
Auto Float with Peach
Still in, Peach can just hold down and will float automatically
C-Stick
The c-stick has changed, and its a welcome improvement. You can officially CHARGE smash attacks with the c-stick, which is nice, and you can also do tilts with it if you are holding the directions on the control stick in addition to the c-stick. its very useful
Chaingrabbing.
Honestly it seems like some characters can still chaingrab, mario can certainly chaingrab some characters (in addition to his numerous buffs n_n) but chaingrabbing makes me sad T-T
It's surprising though, as all of the characters seem generally floatier, as well as seem to recover from hitstun sooner, so chaingrabbing seems to be less possible by most characters
Crouch Canceling
In, and cc dsmash is more difficult due to the fact that if you are holding down it will do a dtilt, and not a dsmash.
Dash Dancing
In and beautiful, sonic's dash dance is INCREDIBLE. think captain falcon, but better lol
Sidestepping
Seems to be basically the same.
Double Jump Cancel
THIS IS OUT. (at least with yoshi) nah seems like peach can still do it though, so *shrug* still in, but not with certain characters
Edgehogging
works the same, characters retain invincibility on the ledges in the same manner as they do in melee (we found out many "advanced" edgehogs, to be discussed later)
Fast Falling
Essentially the same, although with the characters being generally "floatier" it seems to have slightly less of an impact.
Item Grabbing/Catching
You can still grab items with z when you jump in the air, and the timing for item catches is a lot easier.
Jump Cancel Upsmash
Still in, you can also dash and then duck and up smash, obviously
Jump Cancel Grab
Apparently still in, although certainly more difficult to do (at least with the characters we tried with) but that could be the fact that they possibly jump faster...?
Jump Cancel SHINE
You CAN jump cancel shine, although its more difficult and slightly laggier. You have to actually HOLD down b to be able to jump out of it, and it is a little bit slower.
L canceling
Possibly for teh demo only, but l canceling seemed to be out. However, it also seemed like everything was juts canceling automatically (hopefully juts for the demo) in teh fact that things were ending much quicker then they seemed like they should have been. oh wellz, if its out its out, but it may have just been on the demo like that
Edgehop
It exists, but because of the floatiness of the characters it seems like its going to be less useful
Ledge tech
haven't seen it yet, but only because we are still getting used to edgeguarding, i imagine it will be in though, because smash di is FAR easier and seems like it'd be easier to do because wallteching is still in
Ledgedash
obviously out silly lol
Meteor Cancel
well... we didn't really see a lot of meteors, and we didn't exactly see any cancels, so we will keep our eyes open for this one
Meteors
or spikes, still in obviously
Rolling
Still in, still basically the same, some characters seem to have better, faster rolls than other characters (metaknight for example)
Sheildhitstun
seems to be more sheild hitstun, but its not like we are going to be breaking any sheilds with it (well, i'm sure we will find a way lol)
Sheild Grab
Still in, still viable n_n
Shine characteristics
dunno if it starts on one frame, but it starts awfully quick XD in the air theres a nice little stall you can do... ok so in melee if you just drop and shine let go shine let go shine let go it takes quite a bit in between sihnes, well in this one that in itself is MUCH faster, on one fulljump you can probably fall with about ten shines in the air XD
Shine still spikes, Romeo of socal got he first shinespike of brawl (at least as far as we know XD)
Shffls
uhhh basically still in i suppose XD
DI/smash di
still in, and a LOT more effective (from what we saw) it seemed easier to do like survival DI, but harder to di out of combos, basically what that means is, we didn't know waht would combo so we couldn't di out of it LOL
Teching/wallteching/techrolling
You can still tech, you can still walltech (even on ceilings yes) and you can still tech left/right/in place also, basically the same thing, and i'll be testing the timing and seeing if you can tech within a second of eachother now (or if it will register like that) you can also still walljump tech
Tumble Recovery
Still in, you can wiggle and get out of your tumbling animation faster
Walljumping
Still in, Mario, Samus and possibly diddy (but i really cant remember lol)
Wavedashing
CONTROVERSY. Wavedashing in and of itself in the same fassion seems to be out completely. HOWEVER. we saw some waveLANDING, but it wasn't done in the same fassion, it seems to be somehow arial based, so we are still working on it. we've also figured out a way to possibly wavedash.
Footstool jump
Ink's did an awesome footstool jump edgeguard on mike the haze. it was tight. that is all LOL (unknown if it is meteor cancelable, seems like mike haze TRIED to up b to cancel it, but it didn't look like he could)
Crawl
You can crawl, i did it with bowser and we all had a good laugh. i seriously didn't bother looking for any applications of that, we had other things to do, but i'll get on that asap.
Gameplay speed
Its closer to 64 in terms of gameplay, but its not exactly like it. It's like if you smashed melee and 64 together this is sort of what you get. its a new game folks, its not melee 2.0, its brawl.
Air grabbing
doesn't seem to be in *shrug* (other than klaw yeayuhs)
Character intros
In and awesome
Mario - Pipe
Bowser - Just freaking walks out of fire its tight lol
(more in a moment)
Taunts
every character has THREE taunts from what i saw, although some say four, i wasn't too concerned, i just like bowsers taunts (actually almost all of the new ones are awesome haha)
Final Smashes
(i'll upload this in a minute)
Edge Cancelled airials
I wasn't good enough to find out LOL, we'll work on that more tomorrow, but i imagine this will be in
OoS (out of sheild)
you can up b out of sheild, you can up smash out of sheild, you can grab out of sheild, you can jump out of sheild (NOT YOU YOSHI LOLOLOL sucks to be yoshi again)
Pivot
Still in, and there is something more advanced taht we've made up as well, it can be done out of a technique we are calling the Ink Drop (because ink's discovered it) its basically a dashing pivot, i'll talk about that later
"Thunders combo"
tapping somebody who is on teh ground does NOT make them stand, sorry, but thunders combo is out haha
Yoshi double jump knockback resitance
still in, rejoice yoshis haha
General knockback restistance (heavy armor)
heavy armor, ike has a lot of it. lol. seriously. a lot. bowser's got some but i cant see a lot of application of it, theres a lot of that stuff that is hard to test lol "hit me while i'm doing every move at every poitn of the move to see if i take hitstun"
Float canceling
appears to be IN actually haha, weird eh?
Bomb Jumping with samus
appears to be in, but its a lot harder from what i saw
Fludd
we got very little fludd info, but theres no damage, just knockback, we were more concerned with the rest of mario's rape. we will test more later
Peach turnip pulls
NEAL PULLED A BEAMSWORD lolol seems to be basically the same thing
alright time for some seperate notes we just got, things are just getting started on these notes XD
Bowser has heavy armor on the start of his down b
Flame cancel is IN.
Mario can chaingrab with downthrow
Pikachu can SORT of chaingrab with downthrow
sonic is very very fast but also awkward, its not like fox/cf fast in melee, its something new and weird. he seems fairly laggy, but he's SUPER quick moving around the stage
you can airdodge grapple still (not surprising, but still sometihng to report eh? haha)
fox's lasers have been nerfed hardcore in how far they go they really do not go far AT ALL.
you can STAND ON BOXES!!!!! lol HUGEEE news! its crazy! you can also like hit them around without them breaking right away, pretty cool little feature.
Link's bombs will kill now in super sudden death mode
Link's final smash only hits one character
you CAN shorten your over b as fox
Link's down air SOMETIMES bounces, but smoetimes doesn't *shrug*
you cant do a rising tornado with mario (its his down air so taht'd be weird lol)
you can use the fludd in the air
missile cancels seemed to be out, but hugo said he saw somebody do one *shrug*
you CAN moonwalk! weird huh? XD
alllllright
time for the new advanced techniques
Hugging
(hugs was the first one to bring attention to a more or less obvious edgehog technique after a little bit of play
basically you can just walk off and grab the ledge, or you can dash off adn grab the ledge right away, or you can roll and grab the ledge, or you can dash sheild slide then grab the ledge.
you just walk off/slide/whatever off and then hold towards the stage, and you grab on right away. the applications are many, and it is very useful for edgeguarding/hogging
INK DROP.
THIS is the big one folks
you konw that clip where yohsi just randomly falls over tehn rolls?
well, thats the Ink drop. discovered by inks with applications soon to follow. alright you know how we had some ideas for a version of wavedashing, well this is oen of them.
The ink drop opens up for a DASH pivot. you can dash past somebody and instantly turn around and grab them if you ink drop into a reverse grab. its beautiful. dashing pivots is BIG.
basically to ink drop you do a poorly timed dash dance, you dash far enough where your dash dance doesn't work, then you try to turn around, you should just fall over, thats an ink drop, but basically you can ink drop cancel with grabs and attack and what not to turn around and do moves, its quite seckzy
this is all i can remember specifically for now, i'll get some character specific stuff up later
oh, peach's dsmash sucks. a lot.
evidence.
Neal = Peach
Hugo = Samus
Neal vs Hugs.
Super Sudden Death Mode.
Peach = Dsmash
Samus = SURVIVES. AND EASILY.
Samus = win.
yeah, its horrendous.
just as fast though *shrug* lol
more info coming!
One last update, i'm the best bowser in teh world in brawl, i was raping people. Best player there (no joke)
character specific update coming in like 15 minutes
OH before i forget, hover/floating with like pit and metaknight is weird, you have to push down to get them to float, its just not intuitive XD
Mario is freaking RAPE. seriously top tier material, his combos are way too good, and he's got some nice edgeguards, from what we saw mario is rape sauce, very natural feeling, he's got a lot going for him.
we didn't do a lot with fludd itself.
Mario's fair has a nice little priority, if you hit them while his fist is above 90degrees or whatever you want to call it (horizontal) it will have doc style knockback, if he hits you while you are below that point he will hit you down.
Mario's fsmash is noticably slower *shrug*
mario feels and looks more like his 64 counterpart than the melee version, but he's combo crazy.
DK
we didn't get a lot of DK stuff actually, we are going to get more of that tomorrow methinks, but his up air is the same and he still has cargo... dk seems basically the same haha
Samus
Hugo played samus a lot
samus has a massively improved forward air, it combos 64 style, her up smash is also similar to the 64 version but its not really strong or anything, it just seems to have better priority.
doesn't seem like you can start as ZSS (its a demo though folks)
hugo didn't like zss, mainly because he wanted to learn normal samus XD
you cant charge her neutral b in the air, missiles look weird, but theres still a smash one and a homing version
Link
Trevyn/zeralid played exclusively link
Link seems very similar to his melee form, moreso than his brawl form.
his up b does not semi-spike, and his charged up b seems less than useful (but we all could've assumed that lol)
link's arrows are much faster
link's down air and up air are basically teh same thing as in melee
link's final smash is rape. its way too cool. LOL
we'll get more of the character specific info on him tomorrow also
Fox
sorry guys, fox is not good. not. good.
his up air is combo oriented, but you wont be getting low % kills with it
fox's shine still does knockback, but seems to knock people down now, as of now the application seems not that great because of no waveshine but *shrug*
fox dies after over b if you dont hit the edge and you are off the stage, its just like his up b haha
fox is generally just horrible actually, he's quick but he's way floatier, so he's not like up and down quick at all, up throw up air is impossible, his up throw is just HORRIBLE lol
fox got mad nerfs, mid/low tier character from waht we've seen (but obviously, we dont play the game at its peak after one day right? XD)
peach
her dsmash sucks
still have turnip variation
can at LEAST pull beam swords
peach can still float at ground level and all that jazz, shes still fairly good but her dsmash sucks a lot
seems like her final smash is ONLY the singing one where everyone falls asleep, it puts delicious peaches all over the stage for her to heal with but you can wake up pretty fast and eat some yourself lol
Yoshi
Yoshi's up b goes up! WOW! but very very little, his eggz are still pretty good, and you can use it over and over, it still gains the same height, but its not fast enough to stall or anything
yoshi still has the "double jump crouch cancel" effect, which is nice
you cant double jump cancel airs, which is a huge hinderance T-T
You cant jump out of sheild, poor yoshi, when will you catch your break
Bowser
WOW i have way to much bowser info for this update, sooooooon though
first off, bowser is better. clearly better.
up b out of sheild is still just as rape, its nice to have that in my back pocket, you CAN fortress cancel, although it seems slower and less useful (also the down slant, sorry guys, but it doesn't seem to work T-T)
flame cancel is in, wtf is that in for LOL i love it
firebreath in general is much faster to activate and much much less laggy (seems a lot of stuff is like that)
his fair is much faster, you can short hop fair and double jump if i'm remembering correctly
his bair is awkward, but likely still as good, i just dont know how to apply it as well just yet
bowser's up air has a MASSIVE decrease in range actuall, but its still WICKED strong, a LOT of my kills were through the up air
bowser's down air is basically the same move
Bowser's grabs are essentially the same, although because of teh floatiness the dthrow seems like its less effective (no real tech chase there lol)
bowser's dash grab has WAY less range T-T
Bowser's klaw is really cool. really really cool. nice little suicide grab if you want to do that (i did a few times XD)
Bowser's down b is better, but still not that great *shrug* you can grab the ledge with it too btw
uhhh...
bowser's better, he doesn't raelly die. LOL
i dont know waht else to post about him, i loved him and i lost like 1 match as him XD
best brawler in the world suckas, definitely teh best bowser n_n
Pit
uhhhh i saw a ton of pit matches but i dont even know what to say, pit seems like a very good character, but nothing TOO stand out, like by brawl standards probably high tier, but not top tier, but who knows *shrug*
more info on pit tomorrow probably
Metaknight
TOP TIER yeayuhz!!
metaknight is one of the only characters that DOESNT seem overly floaty, he's very quick left and right, and very quick up and down. his float/hover thing is pretty awesome
very noob friendly, combos combos combos, he's got mad priority and power to boot, he's pretty freaking awesome too XD
metaknight has no glaring weaknesses, although vs my bowser metaknight couldn't kill him until very, very, VERY high percents (but people had trouble killing me anyways haha i actually was pretty good at brawl)
metaknight's down b doesn't reflect, its a teleport punish, its pretty tight, but it seems like it'd be really hard to apply, you can teleport any direction though, which is pretty cool. (like diagonal up and down and stuff, its nice)
Diddy Kong
uhhh i dont know a lot about diddy either XD
more info later
he seems to be pretty combo friendly, not as abnormal as they made him sound before we played though *shrug*
Ike
Ike is freaking horrendous in 1 v 1
he is SO. SO. SLOW. and yeah, this is coming from teh bowser main, his moves are freaking HORRIBLY slow, but this guy is PACKED with no flinch frames, and he is SUPER powerful. he's rape in the ffa's though, killing people at massively low percentages
but he's probably better than we give him credit for, but that up b is a horrible recovery move XD straight up, straight down. its like kirby's in melee but you cant move anywhere horizontally at all, so i suppose its more like luigis XD
SONIC
sonic is good, fast and a little awkward, he's probably high tierish by melee standards. he's probably the most awkward character at this point, he's super quick, even up and down (so he's not to floaty) but he seems sorta laggy, his combos are unconventional and weird...
but yeah, sonic is definitely good, he can do airials and stuff after his up b, which makes edgeguarding a little bit more tough, but his up b also like crushes momentum *shrug* he's still a very good character from what i've seen
Character costumes
theres soem good ones
stand out ones are probably link's dark link, metaknight has an awesome like red eye glow color, peach still has daisy as a costume actually
mario has firesuit mario costume available, its really really cool!
the new taunts are rape, i love them. all of them
stages... nothing to outlandish, nothing raelly seems like it'd be banned instantly otehr than the like brinstar style stage with lava, because the lava like comes all over the stage its weird
most of the stages are cool, but we played mostly on battlefield to try and learn the game w/o dealing with stage hazards to much (oh also lylat, i thought that stage was awesome, and theres really nothing to watch out for there, its really cool)
small updates still coming tonight.
INK DROP CLARIFICATION.
the important part is not the falling down, the important part is that you can CANCEL the falling down, so you can basically do anything out of a dash, reverse grabbing and smash attacks and stuff like that, or you can just fall on your face for soem sort of trick (i dont know how taht could really be useful) but a DASHING PIVOT is huge.
