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[ZywyPL]

So Xbox is currently sitting at 46.9 million sales, I would love the see the sales breakdown between the XO, XBO, and XOX that made MS move to this two SKU with different configs for next-gen. I mean the Xbox One family sales aren't that great. They have to have some hard data that backs up this strategy, no? It's going to be interesting if it works out for them.

Pro/1X are about 20% of total yearly console sales, the past 3-4 years were more than enough evidence that most people don't care about the graphics, performance etc. and simply want to play games for as cheap as possible. Having the most powerful hardware helps a lot in marketing tho, it's all about the consumer mindset - people see Intel i9 or NV 2080Ti smashing benchmark charts, and it doesn't matter they cannot afford them, they know those companies make the best hardware so even with 80-200 bucks they will go for products from those companies, even if the competition has a better offer at that price range.

 

[Drunkensamurai]

Pro/1X are about 20% of total yearly console sales, the past 3-4 years were more than enough evidence that most people don't care about the graphics, performance etc. and simply want to play games for as cheap as possible. Having the most powerful hardware helps a lot in marketing tho, it's all about the consumer mindset - people see Intel i9 or NV 2080Ti smashing benchmark charts, and it doesn't matter they cannot afford them, they know those companies make the best hardware so even with 80-200 bucks they will go for products from those companies even if the competition has a better offer at that price range.

I get that but the only reason I didn't jump to the Pro and XOX is that I didn't care about playing my games at higher FPS or resolution and that Next Gen consoles were right around the corner. Also, both consoles were expensive. When I watch comprising between TLOU 2 on base PS4 and PS4 Pro I see no difference really. But games like Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart can't be done on PS4 pro.

 

[hemo memo]

no one upgrades to a half ass machine.

Mass market will. Going from Xbox One/PS4 to XSS is a big upgrade.

The only thing gnawing at my brain here is ArmGunar's breakdown of Sony's financial forecast for PlayStation at Era the day before we knew about the DE PS5.

A pretty good argument for a $399 PS5 with a disc drive based on Sony's own numbers. Yet everyone else thinks the bare minimum pricing for the PS5 with a disc drive will be $499 and even £499 in the UK. Crazy IMO.

I think Ryan interview and the emphasis on value means it’s not going to be cheap and especially not $399.

 

[llien]

52CUs full console, 20CUs cheapo crapo

If 52CU goes 4k, assuming scaling is 1:1

at 1440p one needs 2.17 times less perf, so ideal would be 24CUs.
at 1080p it is way more than needed, to keep up with 52CUs at 4k.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Mass market will. Going from Xbox One/PS4 to XSS is a big upgrade.



I think Ryan interview and the emphasis on value means it’s not going to be cheap and especially not $399.

I'm not sure why? I mean up to that interview Ryan has been indicating the PS5 transition from PS4 would be the fastest ever and frankly you can't/won't do that at £499.

I think if it means anything at all it is about PS5's value against the Lockhart which will be at a lower price.

I think if the PS5 and XSX are at or close to £499 I'll do what I did with the PS3 and wait 6 months. A £349 PS5/XSX with disc drive is far more appealing to me and I could wait 6 more months.

 

[replicant-]

The guy arguing with Druckmann and Cory? ....it was all staged, I tell ya... staged!

If by arguing you mean being called out for being a bit of a wnnk. Then yeah, same guy.

 

[MadAnon]

I'm not sure why? I mean up to that interview Ryan has been indicating the PS5 transition from PS4 would be the fastest ever and frankly you can't/won't do that at £499.

I think if it means anything at all it is about PS5's value against the Lockhart which will be at a lower price.

I think if the PS5 and XSX are at or close to £499 I'll do what I did with the PS3 and wait 6 months. A £349 PS5/XSX with disc drive is far more appealing to me and I could wait 6 more months.

Fastest transition for who? They didn't specify it will be from customers standpoint. All indicates to fast transition for Sony and their studios. Cerny was adamant about how easy it is for developers to adjust to PS5 dev environment. Their big show was all about PS5 games unlike MS who are telling that there will be no next gen exclusives for a while.

 

[ZywyPL]

But games like Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart can't be done on PS4 pro.

And that's why a new, cheaper SKU is for, to run the same next-gen games but at a lower resolution/cost. Some people say MS should just ditch the XB1 and 1X the new base console, but with the same Jaguar CPU and laptop HDD it just wouldn't be able to just cut down the resolution to run newer titles. It's like saying why you need an RTX2060 when you can still play on you old 1080 - it just doesn't have the new features like RT or DLSS to support new games that will be build around those features.

 

[bad guy]

no one upgrades to a half ass machine.

What? I heard consoles are pretty popular. Some people even buy two JaguarCPU systems instead of one decent system.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Fastest transition for who? They didn't specify it will be from customers standpoint. All indicates to fast transition for Sony and their studios. Cerny was adamant about how easy it is for developers to adjust to PS5 dev environment. Their big show was all about PS5 games unlike MS who are telling that there will be no next gen exclusives for a while.

I think this follow-up article with Gameindustry shows it absolutely means users moving from PS4 and buying PS5 quickly: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...ing-that-can-only-be-enjoyed-on-playstation-5

 

[MadAnon]

I think this follow-up article with Gameindustry shows it absolutely means users moving from PS4 and buying PS5 quickly: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...ing-that-can-only-be-enjoyed-on-playstation-5

Not sure which part points to your claims being true, especially when this quote sticks out

"I think the best way that we can address this is by providing the best possible value proposition that we can. I don't necessarily mean lowest price..."

One has to be disconnected far from reality to even suggest PS5 could be 399$.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Not sure which part points to your claims being true, especially when this quote sticks out

"I think the best way that we can address this is by providing the best possible value proposition that we can. I don't necessarily mean lowest price..."

One has to be disconnected far from reality to even suggest PS5 could be 399$.

That is a PR quote about price. The below talks to the fast transition (people buying the console)

Back when we spoke to Ryan in the before times, he spoke about the transition between PS4 and PS5 happening "at a scale and pace that we've never delivered before."

He says that ambition remains the same. Yet with the possibility of a deep recession, surely that poses a challenge when trying to sell a high-priced piece of consumer electronics

He later even gives example numbers of 15-25 million PS5's in the first couple of years!

None of this really matters until they announce the actual pricing though. For all we know they price them at £349/£399 or even lower and surprising everyone?

 

[Hendrick's]

I watched this earlier & it lays out a pretty strong argument for Lockhart doing more than 1080p

If the One X is already doing 4K, why would the Series S not be able to?

 

[LordOfChaos]

Hmmmm.....how is he getting this info so readily? And it's that too many CUs for a 4TF console?

They may not know how to build a PC, but I would assume if he was out there posting fake leaks The Verge would fire him. Probably has a few inside touchpoints as the Microsoft reporter.

 

[MadAnon]

That is a PR quote about price. The below talks to the fast transition (people buying the console)



He later even gives example numbers of 15-25 million PS5's in the first couple of years!

None of this really matters until they announce the actual pricing though. For all we know they price them at £349/£399 or even lower and surprising everyone?

Refer to the "best value proposition" part. Sony might think that their proposition at 499$ is great. In my opinion it would be such because the value PS5 offers (judging just by the specs) is much better than PS4 did at the time of the release. Especially the SSD part instead of some run of the mill HDD. The console will be significantly larger with much beefier cooling.

Just don't cry or whine when the reality kicks in. I warned you.

 

[00_Zer0]

I don't mind this strategy of buying a cheaper version for people who could care less about resolution or Terraflops. These type of people include kids or casual players that only want to play games like Roblox, Minecraft, or Fortnite.

I have a One X and an S in my household. They are both on a shared main account. The Primary one is the S and I gave it to my son. He has it in his bedroom with the 50 inch 1080P tv. The One X, which is my secondary unit, is in my living room on my 4K TV.

With this method I have Game Pass for him and I, and only have to buy one XBox Live Gold account for both of us to use and enjoy online play.

The only thing I hope is that we get some kind of ray tracing with the lower end model. My son is 11, but after he saw the Minecraft RTX demo on YouTube he asked me if my gaming PC has a card that could handle that, and sadly I do not, but it would be great to see if MS could pull off getting ray tracing abilities on Lockhart.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

As much as I love what I have read about the Xbox Series X, I HATE what I read about Xbox Series S. I feel that this will hold back development and limit opportunities.

 

[01011001]

I watched this earlier & it lays out a pretty strong argument for Lockhart doing more than 1080p

of course it could target higher resolutions than 1080p, but the marketing should focus on 1080p.

noone has a 1440p TV, and the average customer doesn't connect their console to a PC Monitor.

Lockhart could easily do 4K in many smaller games as well, but if they focus on that the messaging would be too messy.
Series X is already the 4K console, the average customer knows what that means. they also know what Full HD/1080p means... but try and explain someone with no deeper tech knowledge what 1440p is supposed to be.

also, the system has plenty of overhead to handle games at 1080p pretty easily from what has been leaked, and many games will easily be able to run at 1440p. but for the especially taxing games that will push Series X to its limits, 1080p will most likely be Lockhart's limits.

 

[00_Zer0]

of course it could target higher resolutions than 1080p, but the marketing should focus on 1080p.

noone has a 1440p TV, and the average customer doesn't connect their console to a PC Monitor.

Lockhart could easily do 4K in many smaller games as well, but if they focus on that the messaging would be too messy.

I have a Samsung 65 inch Q70R from last year and I run my PC on it at 1440P 120 Hz as default. Many TV's have this capability and it's the main reason I bought it. I have a PC with Ryzen 7 and 5700 XT plus, and it's a perfect combo for 1440P resolution with high refresh rate.

The extra resolution is less important to me than being able to run most of my PC games at 120 Hz refresh rate. Having said that, I think with Lockhart MS will come up with some marketing speak to hype it up so it doesn't seem to have a 1080p cap on games.

 

[01011001]

I have a Samsung 65 inch Q70R from last year and I run my PC on it at 1440P 120 Hz as default. Many TV's have this capability and it's the main reason I bought it. I have a PC with Ryzen 7 and 5700 XT plus, and it's a perfect combo for 1440P resolution with high refresh rate.

The extra resolution is less important to me than being able to run most of my PC games at 120 Hz refresh rate. Having said that, I think with Lockhart MS will come up with some marketing speak to say that

they might talk about it, but the main focus should be 1080p owners to easily differentiate the 2 systems.

 

[GiJoint]

Wrapping my head around yields, so some CUs are disabled because not every chip comes out the same? So aim higher but stay safe lower to get more? And say a 2070 GPU would be a bad batch of a 2080?

How come they all can’t come out as intended...

 

[gamechanger87]

I don't mind this strategy of buying a cheaper version for people who could care less about resolution or Terraflops. These type of people include kids or casual players that only want to play games like Roblox, Minecraft, or Fortnite.

I have a One X and an S in my household. They are both on a shared main account. The Primary one is the S and I gave it to my son. He has it in his bedroom with the 50 inch 1080P tv. The One X, which is my secondary unit, is in my living room on my 4K TV.

With this method I have Game Pass for him and I, and only have to buy one XBox Live Gold account for both of us to use and enjoy online play.

The only thing I hope is that we get some kind of ray tracing with the lower end model. My son is 11, but after he saw the Minecraft RTX demo on YouTube he asked me if my gaming PC has a card that could handle that, and sadly I do not, but it would be great to see if MS could pull off getting ray tracing abilities on Lockhart.

Tom Warren has confirmed that it has RT. To what extent, unknown. But he has affirmed that it has RT.

 

[00_Zer0]

Tom Warren has confirmed that it has RT. To what extent, unknown. But he has affirmed that it has RT.

If possible I hope MS will show off a demo of ray tracing running on Lockhart. My son would be exited to get Minecraft with ray tracing on the lower end model, even if it's running at 1080p.

 

[John254]

Wrapping my head around yields, so some CUs are disabled because not every chip comes out the same? So aim higher but stay safe lower to get more? And say a 2070 GPU would be a bad batch of a 2080?

How come they all can’t come out as intended...

Probably. I think Warren was talking about active CUs.
So 24CUs with 4 deactivated or 22 with 2 deactivated could be possible

 

[vkbest]

I get that but the only reason I didn't jump to the Pro and XOX is that I didn't care about playing my games at higher FPS or resolution and that Next Gen consoles were right around the corner. Also, both consoles were expensive. When I watch comprising between TLOU 2 on base PS4 and PS4 Pro I see no difference really. But games like Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart can't be done on PS4 pro.

4 years and 1 month from PS4 Pro release, I can't consider "were right around the corner"

 

[Jon Neu]

How much are MS paying this guy?

50 gallons of soy per tweet.

 

[Drunkensamurai]

4 years and 1 month from PS4 Pro release, I can't consider "were right around the corner"

Still couldn't justify paying $400 just for FPS and resolution bump.

 

[Fordino]

It's not weaker though, RDNA has a 50% performance increase over GCN and RDNA2 has another increase on top so 4tf works out handily more powerful than a one x.

The RDNA2 performance increase over RDNA1 is only per Watt.

So performance wise 4TF RDNA1 is basically the same as 4TF RDNA2, but RDNA2 will use 50% less power (Wattage).

Considering that, we're quite lucky that RDNA2 is available for these consoles, otherwise we'd be seeing much lower specced RDNA1 GPUs in the PS5 and SeriesX, due to the power budget available.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

So Xbox is currently sitting at 46.9 million sales, I would love the see the sales breakdown between the XO, XBO, and XOX that made MS move to this two SKU with different configs for next-gen. I mean the Xbox One family sales aren't that great. They have to have some hard data that backs up this strategy, no? It's going to be interesting if it works out for them.

FYI the SNES LTD is only a bit less than 3 million above XBO's, and that system did very great both for itself and for Nintendo.

A console doesn't need PS2/PS4 sales numbers to be doing great; as even Sony are hinting at more and more these days, the measure of a system's health is in the productivity of the customer base within its ecosystem. And on that note, Xbox has been doing extremely well and punching above their weight for a platform that's been outsold by Sony's more than 2:1 this generation.

The only thing gnawing at my brain here is ArmGunar's breakdown of Sony's financial forecast for PlayStation at Era the day before we knew about the DE PS5.

A pretty good argument for a $399 PS5 with a disc drive based on Sony's own numbers. Yet everyone else thinks the bare minimum pricing for the PS5 with a disc drive will be $499 and even £499 in the UK. Crazy IMO.

IIRC, it was the Japanese side that wanted to go with slower GDDR6 chips, and the Japanese side have also been wanting to sell PS5 at break-even or at profit. I think that's a big reason we're even getting a Digital Edition; the American side must've done some hard convincing with Japan at some point earlier to try hitting a cheaper price point and convince them any losses taken on a Digital Edition upfront would be recouped through digital sales and subscriptions, plus the inability of users to play disc copies (and therefore used copies where even the platform holders don't get a cut of that).

So $399 PS5 Digital, $499 PS5 Disc seem like very probable price points for them.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Tom Warren has confirmed that it has RT. To what extent, unknown. But he has affirmed that it has RT.

If it's the same RT cores as the XSX then it will scale down to 20CUs.

What I don't know is if it can match the same level of RT as the XSX due to the lower resolution or of there will just be less RT.

 

[NT80]

Then they reveal that they actually want to sell a 4 tflop machine, the Series X is just for their enthusiast crowd and will never be utilized properly to harness the advantages and deliver a next gen experience...... it's just a resolution bump machine basically.

Resolution bump machine is what it seems like to me. I'd much rather 4K for the next gen was as common as 1080p was during the 360/PS3 gen. Might've had better results if 1440p-1800p was the target most of the time for Series X/PS5. I don't know where that would've left Lockhart if they were doing that.

 

[KungFucius]

As a PC gamer I would easily opt for the cheap box to play the handful of exclusives, that is if there were exclusives. A weak & cheap 1080p PS5 would help subsidize my next GPU. I am not sure why people are weirded out by this. It's like buying a GPU. Do you want the XX80Ti? Of course, but maybe the XX70 or XX80 are a better deal for you, considering the cost. Even for people who can afford it handily, it may make sense to not blow a couple hundred more to get the better graphics. Millions still bought the base PS4 after the pro came out.

 

[01011001]

As a PC gamer I would easily opt for the cheap box to play the handful of exclusives, that is if there were exclusives. A weak & cheap 1080p PS5 would help subsidize my next GPU. I am not sure why people are weirded out by this. It's like buying a GPU. Do you want the XX80Ti? Of course, but maybe the XX70 or XX80 are a better deal for you, considering the cost. Even for people who can afford it handily, it may make sense to not blow a couple hundred more to get the better graphics. Millions still bought the base PS4 after the pro came out.

noone is actually concerned.
it's just the usual fanboy schtick.

"this will hold back next gen games" they say, either ignorantly or with fake concern in order to make the "other team" look bad.

 

[DESTROYA]

Any chance it comes with BR disc drive for physical games ?
Wouldn’t mind having a cheaper way to play older Xbox games using BC

 

[Neo_game]

Just cause Series X will drop in price doesn't mean Series S can't.

Let's say Series X drops to $400 from $500.
Series S can drop to $200 from $300.

That's the whole point of Series S to have a cheaper system for the whole 7 years of next gen. Or else they would have just went with One S support for first few years then only focus on Series X. But the strategy is to keep Series S for the whole gen.

There is no way S is going to last 7yrs. Only exception would be if the price of PS5, X does not drop to some 300$ in 3-4yrs and there is no pro model this gen.

 

[thebigmanjosh]

If possible I hope MS will show off a demo of ray tracing running on Lockhart. My son would be exited to get Minecraft with ray tracing on the lower end model, even if it's running at 1080p.

Minecraft RTX already runs at 1080p on XSX.

At best the game will be 720p on XSS and likely with some RT elements pared back.

 

[01011001]

Any chance it comes with BR disc drive for physical games ?
Wouldn’t mind having a cheaper way to play older Xbox games using BC

noone who supposedly has inside infos said anything about that yet.

many seem to believe that a discless Series S would make more sense, I on the other hand think that would be a mistake.
the Series S, if it is as cheap as the leaks say, would be a perfect gift for a child, or the perfect upgrade for One S users.
and both for targeting both of these demographics a disc drive should be included.

many parents might not feel comfortable giving a kid a system that can only play downloaded games.
and many One S users might have a One S to watch UHD BluRay, it was one of its selling points after all. and One S users might also be more conscious about cost, meaning used games could be a big part of their library.

so if the Series S has no disc drive, I think it will be way less attractive and way less appealing to the very demographic it should be made for

 

[KAL2006]

There is no way S is going to last 7yrs. Only exception would be if the price of PS5, X does not drop to some 300$ in 3-4yrs and there is no pro model this gen.

It would be stupid to release a Series S if it doesn't last the same years as Series X. It would be stupid to have developers having to program for Series S which they plan to not support for 7 years. If at year 6, Halo Infinite 3 comes out and doesn't support Series S, Series S owners will be pissed. If Halo Infinite 3 does work on Series S, but they not selling Series S anymore that would be strange. With that strategy why release Series S, why not just focus on cross gen with One S.

Series S will be here long term as a budget option. Just as Netflix offers 4K and HD options, Apple offer Pro models and Lite models of their latest phones.

The time Series S gets discounted will be the same time Series X gets discounted when we get Series S2 and Series X2.

 

[NullZ3r0]

I understand that Lockhart profits from all the architecture benefits of Zen2, RDNA and SSD. What I want to know, as a One X owner, is how much of a performance difference there is exactly.
In other words, if I own a One X, how much of an upgrade is a Lockhart/Series S really? I do believe it's an upgrade, but I want to know if it's worth shoving aside my One X in favor of a Series S.

It will be a huge upgrade because One X won't be able to run games that take advantage of the Zen 2 CPU and Velocity Architecture. We're talking physics and AI on the CPU side and faster loading and seamless worlds on the VA side.

 

[NullZ3r0]

Last time some numbers were reported Im pretty sure it was mentioned they had passed 55 million units, or at least somewhere above 50 million.

It’s hard because there are no official numbers, but estimates are all over the place as well. And considering it’s been said that apparently MS has been doing better end of gen than early on I would be surprised that they’ve surpassed that 50 million mark by the time Series X is released if it hasn’t been done already.

Considering how bad Mattrick and Co. bungled that launch the fact that they still sold 50 million units shows that the brand still has strength from the 360 gen.

 

[Memorabilia]

It's just speculation at this point, but it seems Microsoft has an interesting strategy this gen. It seems entirely built upon market share with a 2 pronged approach. XSS to build userbase, with XSX to deliver high end gaming. The XSS users then naturally migrate to XSX with compatibility. I still think having xCloud as an option on XSS would provide a good bridge for users who don't have the budget for XSX now. But if we're talking about a 7 year cycle again, that's time for the teens to grow into better means.

I can't lie, I'm intrigued. I'll be getting a PS5, but if this is the route MS is truly going down, I can see myself actually becoming a multiplatform gamer for the first time. I spend more on e-cigs and online movies every month than the projected cost of an XSS, so the investment if relatively low. Hopefully we hear more this weekend, because this could be a game changer.

Yup. It's also worth noting that while it might be a minority of households who will buy more than one of the same brand console per household, this option is extra intriguing for me since I only have one 4k television in the main room while my other two excellent TVs are both 1080p. Current gen I purchased multiple Xbones for different rooms, including upgrading to X1Xs. I have a standard PS4 on one TV and Pro on the 4k TV.

So the Series S gives me a lower cost option for my other two TV rooms.

 

[Mochilador]

If the One X is already doing 4K, why would the Series S not be able to?

Probably because the graphics will be more detailed.
Series S is supposed to run Series X games. If they go for 4k, something else is gonna suffer.

 

[00_Zer0]

Minecraft RTX already runs at 1080p on XSX.

At best the game will be 720p on XSS and likely with some RT elements pared back.

It will be better than nothing for my son to enjoy.

 

[tryDEATH]

That's not my point. The main reason I buy an iPhone is to keep in touch with my family and friends not to play mobile games. The main reason I buy a video game console is to play video games. I can't remember the last time I bought a mobile game.

You know you don't need a over priced Iphone to do all those things you want to do, yet you still bought it. Same for consoles you don't need a 4K machine as a 1080p machine is sufficient. You pay for new hardware and additional capabilities.

 

[Drunkensamurai]

You know you don't need a over priced Iphone to do all those things you want to do, yet you still bought it. Same for consoles you don't need a 4K machine as a 1080p machine is sufficient. You pay for new hardware and additional capabilities.

you’re speaking with someone who still owns an iPhone 7 Plus. I will pay for the PS5 for next gen games.

 

[tryDEATH]

you’re speaking with someone who still owns an iPhone 7 Plus. I will pay for the PS5 for next gen games.

It was still an overpriced device for what you needed for keeping in touch with friends and family and both systems are getting next gen games, they aren't exclusive to Playstation.

 

[Marlenus]

The specs on the Lockhart just don’t make sense with the One X being a thing. I get that it’s a different architecture, but I don’t see why they’d improve the CPU and then have a seemingly weaker GPU than the One X.

I’m ready for them to talk about this thing and tell me what their performance target is.

Same cpu so the you don't have to sacrifice the core gameplay ideas.

Weaker gpu as 1080p will likely be the render target instead of 4k.

 

[RayHell]

I'm betting on portable console.

 

[DigitalScrap]

I'm betting on portable console.

I would love that, but I have a feeling that some rumblings or leaks would have surfaced by now if so. A powerful portable Xbox One that had full access to Gamepass and your digital game library would be awesome.

 

[diffusionx]

The specs on the Lockhart just don’t make sense with the One X being a thing. I get that it’s a different architecture, but I don’t see why they’d improve the CPU and then have a seemingly weaker GPU than the One X.

I’m ready for them to talk about this thing and tell me what their performance target is.

I don't think the One X is long for this world. The Lockhart/Series S is meant to be an upgrade for the One S though, with the Series X being the premium model. Kind of the way every phone company does it these days. At least that's how I see it.