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[danm999]

Trump has a lot of low information voters fooled. About just how anti-establishment he is.

He says he dislikes Citizens United and the influence of money in politics.

Then he turns around and says Clarence Thomas (who voted in favour of the majority of Citizens United) would be his ideal Supreme Court nominee.

Trump rails against Wall Street corruption and big businesses influence.

Then he turns around and says Dodd Frank needs to be repealed, that minimum wage can't be raised (and in fact wages are too high in general) that the corporate tax rate needs to be dropped, and that the Estate tax needs to go.

Unlike Bernie, his rhetoric absolutely does not match up with his stated policy aims. He's all show. Unless he changes absolutely all of his positions on these things between now and November, but then you have no idea what you're getting.

 

[eBay Huckster]

I don't fully understand the American system, so I have a question.

If Bernie wins the presidency, can republicans block absolutely everything he tries to change, by the fact they control the house of representatives and the senate?

if it's an initiative he can't simply enact by executive order, then they're very much able to straight-up block it, yeah

 

[diablos991]

So you're just not even explaining your position on his bigoted viewpoints.

How many times are you going to throw out the bait?
There is literally no answer I can give to satiate you unless I say I hate Trump.

The issues I find most important are obviously different than the issues you find most important.
I think it's great that we are individuals that can have different priority of ideals.

 

[Team Alucard]

If you're going to post the same pictures for the thousandth time, we can also remind you why these numbers are sort of useless before the general and the favorability issue on the Republican side and why Bernie's favorability numbers are tenuous due to a lack of exposure to the wider electorate.

But go ahead, keep posting the same damn thing with zero context!

We've been over this before. The argument that the base will rally around Clinton after she becomes the nominee and thus dramatically boost her numbers is absolute drivel. The base already supports her. Her favorability among card-carrying democrats is sky-high. The problem is that everyone else hates her, and that's not going to change.

Luckily for her, people hate Trump even more. So it probably won't matter in the end. But the claim that Hillary is the more electable candidate should no longer be treated as gospel. She's extremely vulnerable.

 

[Ophelion]

GAF is a pretty liberal forum. Here Trump is nothing short of the devil.

 

[A Link to the Past]

How many times are you going to throw out the bait?
There is literally no answer I can give to satiate you unless I say I hate Trump.

It's not bait, it's me trying to tear from you an explanation of how you can support someone who had said many a horrid thing solely because he's anti-establishment.

Like, do you think that as long as you don't agree with the things he believes, it's okay?

EDIT: I see you clarified, so I will say that your values disgust me. If I may, are you a member of any groups that Trump has come out against?

 

[vicissitudes]

Ooh, how exciting So our VP would be someone who wants to oppress marginalized people.

Seriously, you need to realize something.

You can't support Trump if you don't also support his horrid views as well. That you hold Trump in such high esteem tells me that these groups being harmed is acceptable to you as long as an anti-establishment president is the one harming them.

I'm sorry but you don't know what you're talking about.

All the other GOP candidates, want to oppress marginalized people MUCH MORE than Trump. Think about Rubio, Bush, Cruz, etc. They are all funded by incredibly wealthy people and will continue to enact huge tax cuts for the wealthy, drive up the national debt, and who will pay for it? The middle-class and poor taxpayers of this country, many of whom are Latino and Black. If you actually care about minorities and the poor, the other GOP candidates will oppress them to an unprecedented degree in favor of the rich. They will cut social security, medicare, medicaid, etc. While Trump will bring jobs back to the US, help the middle class grow, and provide universal health care (yes this is from late 2015).

Other GOP candidates + Hillary are puppets for the banks and the rich. Trump is widely seen as the Populist candidate. He will bring shared prosperity, not just give more to the people on top.

 

[HylianTom]

It's not bait, it's me trying to tear from you an explanation of how you can support someone who had said many a horrid thing solely because he's anti-establishment.

Like, do you think that as long as you don't agree with the things he believes, it's okay?

This voter appears to be fine with overlooking a candidate's racism, etc. Not his problem.

Must be nice.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I'm sorry but you don't know what you're talking about.

All the other GOP candidates, want to oppress marginalized people MUCH MORE than Trump. Think about Rubio, Bush, Cruz, etc. They are all funded by incredibly wealthy people and will continue to enact huge tax cuts for the wealthy, drive up the national debt, and who will pay for it? The middle-class and poor taxpayers of this country, many of whom are Latino and Black. If you actually care about minorities and the poor, the other GOP candidates will oppress them to an unprecedented degree in favor of the rich. They will cut social security, medicare, medicaid, etc. While Trump will bring jobs back to the US, help the middle class grow, and provide universal health care (yes this is from late 2015).

Other GOP candidates + Hillary are puppets for the banks and the rich. Trump is widely seen as the Populist candidate. He will bring shared prosperity, not just give more to the people on top.

Then don't support anyone from the right? Accurately label the right as a many-way tie of horrid people?

 

[Tabris]

Honestly, would there be much difference between last 2 years and next 2 years for Americans if either Bernie or Hillary win? Republicans are still going to block everything.

You should just vote in Bernie and then Bernie should spend the next 2 years doing executive orders and pushing people to vote in the mid-term. Just constant news conferences talking about what he wants to do and what he needs from voters to be able to do it.

As a Canadian, my moral compass is hoping you guys vote in Bernie. My intellect is hoping you guys vote in Trump for the benefits to the Canadian economy that will bring by Trump tanking the US economy like Bush did.

 

[eBay Huckster]

How many times are you going to throw out the bait?
There is literally no answer I can give to satiate you unless I say I hate Trump.

The issues I find most important are obviously different than the issues you find most important.
I think it's great that we are individuals that can have different priority of ideals.

...So it's "bait" to ask you what the hell, specifically, you find appealing about Trump's platform?

 

[ivysaur12]

We've been over this before. The argument that the base will rally around Clinton after she becomes the nominee and thus dramatically boost her numbers is absolute drivel. The base already supports her. Her favorability among card-carrying democrats is sky-high.

But it's not! It's high, but not sky high, and would be enough to push her to a point where her numbers would be around where Obama was in '12. She also isn't the nominee yet.

My problem is that you keep copy and pasting the same post, over and over again, I don't think you actually understand how favorability works or how it affects election numbers in polls in an election from before and after the primary.

You're also ignoring that Bernie has not been attacked at all by Republicans until this week when he actually became a legitimate candidate.

 

[diablos991]

...So it's "bait" to ask you what the hell, specifically, you find appealing about Trump's platform?

That isn't the bait part of his numerous inquiries.
I find the most appealing aspect of Trumps platform, as mentioned in several posts, his anti-establishment views and demeanor.

 

[B-Dubs]

That isn't the bait part of his numerous inquiries.
I find the most appealing aspect of Trumps platform, as mentioned in several posts, his anti-establishment views and demeanor.

What about the racism? The rampant and disgusting racism. You're ok with all that?

 

[neurosisxeno]

bernie / warren 2016 would be the goat presidency of all time

That's a terrible ticket. You want to stack the 2 most progressive people in the Federal Government in the Executive Branch? Keep Warren in the Senate, and you pick a Moderate Democrat or someone with more bipartisan appeal as a VP. No matter who takes the Democratic Nomination I'm pretty sure Julian Castro is the next Democratic VP pick.

 

[HylianTom]

That isn't the bait part of his numerous inquiries.
I find the most appealing aspect of Trumps platform, as mentioned in several posts, his anti-establishment views and demeanor.

I hope he gets Choco Tacos put back into the vending machines outside of the school cafeteria. That'd be awesome.

Bernie and Hillary are both going to have a lot if trouble getting stuff through Congress. But nothing changing would still be better than a GOP president passing a bunch of awful shit.

Pretty much. We're voting for SCOTUS this year, really.

Both have pledged to appoint justices who'll overturn Citizens, so if corporate influence is a concern, either one as nominee will suffice for that goal.

 

[ctfg23]

Bernie and Hillary are both going to have a lot if trouble getting stuff through Congress. But nothing changing would still be better than a GOP president passing a bunch of awful shit.

 

[Tabris]

What are the chances that if Clinton and Cruz or Rubio win the nominations, that Sanders and Trump go independent splitting the vote 4-way? That would be great.

 

[brianmcdoogle]

It has always bothered me how the sky darkens in that scene. It was always distracted me and it ruins the moment.

 

[gutter_trash]

this is good for Hillary, she can't expect it to be easy. Forces her to work a little and get some practice before Trumpmania

 

[Ophelion]

What are the chances that if Clinton and Cruz or Rubio win the nominations, that Sanders and Trump go independent splitting the vote 4-way? That would be great.

Sanders has stated he will not do that. Pretty sure Trump has made similar promises, but I feel less confident he would keep his word.

 

[diablos991]

What are the chances that if Clinton and Cruz or Rubio win the nominations, that Sanders and Trump go independent splitting the vote 4-way? That would be great.

That would be the most exciting election I have ever lived through.
It would be fantastic for the American people to see what happens.

 

[B-Dubs]

Sanders has stated he will not do that. Pretty sure Trump has made similar promises, but I feel less confident he would keep his word.

Trump would do it if he felt he got fucked over, but Bernie has flat out said he wouldn't.

 

[Team Alucard]

You're also ignoring that Bernie has not been attacked at all by Republicans until this week when he actually became a legitimate candidate.

I've acknowledged multiple times that Bernie is a risk, and there is a definite possibility that he and his platform would crumble before greater scrutiny and the attacks of the Republican war machine.

But that's exactly the point, he is a risk. We don't know for sure what will happen to the public's view of him as he gets more exposure and heightened scrutiny, but what we do know is that Clinton is a known commodity, and people really, really don't like her.

I would much rather take my chances with a candidate who the public may turn against, compared to the candidate that the public has already turned against.

Ultimately, none of this even matters because Trump is probably going to win the GOP nomination, and either Hillary or Bernie would both easily defeat him.

 

[danm999]

What are the chances that if Clinton and Cruz or Rubio win the nominations, that Sanders and Trump go independent splitting the vote 4-way? That would be great.

Higher for Trump then Sanders I would imagine.

Trump has said he'll do it if he feels he isn't being treated fairly, which at this point seems to indicate if he doesn't win the nomination.

 

[ivysaur12]

That isn't the bait part of his numerous inquiries.
I find the most appealing aspect of Trumps platform, as mentioned in several posts, his anti-establishment views and demeanor.

What about his platform? Does that include his blatant racism and he lack of knowledge on almost every single major issue in which you could vote on a candidate?

I've acknowledged multiple times that Bernie is a risk, and there is a definite possibility that he and his platform would crumble before greater scrutiny and the attacks of the Republican war machine.

But that's exactly the point, he is a risk. We don't know for sure what will happen to the public's view of him as he gets more exposure and heightened scrutiny, but what we do know is that Clinton is a known commodity, and people really, really don't like her.

Ultimately, none of this even matters because Trump is probably going to win the GOP nomination, and either Hillary or Bernie would both easily defeat him.

You know what happens. You put a sickle and hammer in a commercial, say that Bernie had a honeymoon in Soviet Russia, clips of him saying he's going to raise taxes, and you've probably lost the election.

At least you know what you're getting with Hillary and know her numbers won't get worse than during a contentious primary where she's being attacked from the left and the right.

 

[Tesseract]

What are the chances that if Clinton and Cruz or Rubio win the nominations, that Sanders and Trump go independent splitting the vote 4-way? That would be great.

trump probably will, sanders is too good a person to pull a stunt like that

 

[Chariot]

Sanders has stated he will not do that. Pretty sure Trump has made similar promises, but I feel less confident he would keep his word.

Au contraire. Trump said he would explicitly not promise to not run independent if he isn't elected. Doesn't mean he will, but he is clearly threatening.

 

[A Link to the Past]

That isn't the bait part of his numerous inquiries.
I find the most appealing aspect of Trumps platform, as mentioned in several posts, his anti-establishment views and demeanor.

Sorry, I guess when you ignore a very important question and thus force me to re-ask it, it's bait. It's all too telling however that you won't answer the question though - it's only bait if the answer is, effectively, accepting his bigotry.

 

[JustenP88]

God dammit, thread derail by a borderline Trump supporter. You just can't fucking hide from that guy.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

Trump brags about how many politicians he's given money to. Trump IS money in politics.

Anyway as some have mentioned, good on him for some serious momentum, but it'll be a much harder fight in the more important states. His ground game and support enthusiasm is high, and it'll do well for him in small population area's, but man the big states are the important ones.

 

[Moofers]

Very stoked to see Bernie taking the lead in Iowa. I can barely wait for the damn voting to start!

 

[neurosisxeno]

this is good for Hillary, she can't expect it to be easy. Forces her to work a little and get some practice before Trumpmania

I think it's bad for her. If Hillary gets desperate she could remind people of the other times she got desperate, and the stupid crap that came out of that--the Birther Movement comes to mind.

 

[Ophelion]

Au contraire. Trump said he would explicitly not promise to not run independent if he isn't elected. Doesn't mean he will, but he is clearly threatening.

Even better. I would love for that to happen. Would split the conservative vote so nicely.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

What about his platform? Does that include his blatant racism and he lack of knowledge on almost every single major issue in which you could vote on a candidate?

No, you don't get it, he's got the classiest most luxurious platform. Like all the other candidates are jealous of just how swanky his platform is. And when he gets elected, he's going to do the best at everything President-y; it's gonna make your head spin.

As much as I hate the phrase, every time someone mentions Trump as a "populist" candidate, I want to scream "CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE!" at them. He's not a populist candidate unless you're a white guy. He's a fascist candidate who is doing a good job vilifying Mexicans and Muslims and justifying prejudicial behavior against brown-skinned people. There's a reason his "unfavorable" numbers are off the charts with non-Republicans. That's not populism.

 

[cwmartin]

TRUMP IS THE ESTABLISHMENT

He is the white majority pulling the strings in his ivory tower. He supports big business because his entire existence is big business.

Anyone saying things otherwise is delusional to the idea that he is fighting any establishment in place. The establishment got him to where he is, he is the embodiment of it.

With a sprinkle of xenophobe and racism on top.

 

[SCReuter]

God dammit, thread derail by a borderline Trump supporter. You just can't fucking hide from that guy.

Maybe everybody should stop dogpiling on him and move on?

 

[Tabris]

trump probably will, sanders is too good a person to pull a stunt like that

Why is that a stunt?

Honestly your country needs 4 parties. Socialists, Democrats, Moderates, Republicans

 

[SolarPowered]

TRUMP IS THE ESTABLISHMENT

He is the white majority pulling the strings in his ivory tower. He supports big business because his entire existence is big business.

Anyone saying things otherwise is delusional to the idea that he is fighting any establishment in place. The establishment got him to where he is, he is the embodiment of it.

With a sprinkle of xenophobe and racism on top.

Trump will continue to be the anti-establishment candidate so long as he continues to give the RNC and Neocons cluster headaches. The guy is an asshole, but he's OUR asshole.

Why is that a stunt?

Honestly your country needs 4 parties. Socialists, Democrats, Moderates, Republicans

You may as well rename the socialist party to the baby eater party. The "S" word will hold them back for at least two more decades. Bernie has the benefit of being a sole man with his own personality. A socialist group is screwed.

 

[Team Alucard]

Why is that a stunt?

Honestly your country needs 4 parties. Socialists, Democrats, Moderates, Republicans

Because it would split the vote and guarantee a Republican president. It would be betraying and sacrificing every ideal he supports just to spite the DNC.

 

[K.Sabot]

Maybe everybody should stop dogpiling on him and move on?

what are you talking about? this is gaf baby


also I'd be up for 4 parties aka, trump goes 3rd party and sanders goes 4th party.

 

[ivysaur12]

Why is that a stunt?

Honestly your country needs 4 parties. Socialists, Democrats, Moderates, Republicans

Probably more like:

Working Families, Democrats, Republicans, Tea Party

 

[Overlee]

I hope he gets Choco Tacos put back into the vending machines outside of the school cafeteria. That'd be awesome.



Pretty much. We're voting for SCOTUS this year, really.

Both have pledged to appoint justices who'll overturn Citizens, so if corporate influence is a concern, either one as nominee will suffice for that goal.

Citizens United is just the icing on a corrupt political cake. The real problem with money in politics is at the legislative level. Where Congressional members (of both parties) are forced to fundraise constantly so they become addicted to the money (and corporate friendly legislature) that comes along with it.

It's what Lawrence Lessig campaigned on and nothing short of publicly financed elections will suffice.

But you wont see Hillary talk about real campaign finance reform instead you see her bragging about her ability to soak up the big bucks from big business.

Money is a drug and Hillary is the pusher.

 

[googleplex]

Sanders VS Trump 2016.
My dream presidential race.

I would be OK with either as President.

This has got to be the most ridiculous contradictory post I've ever read.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Poor diablos, probably felt bullied by people asking him whether he is okay with supporting a racist

 

[K.Sabot]

Poor diablos, probably felt bullied by people asking him whether he is okay with supporting a racist

You are actually sounding like a bully with that post right now though.

 

[diablos991]

Poor diablos, probably felt bullied by people asking him whether he is okay with supporting a racist

I don't feel bullied at all.
It's refreshing to see at least a few people here who can think outside the box.

 

[commedieu]

 

[SolarPowered]

What are the chances that if Clinton and Cruz or Rubio win the nominations, that Sanders and Trump go independent splitting the vote 4-way? That would be great.

Did an American drone drop a bomb on one of your oil fields? You really want us to go down lol.

 

[params7]

What about the racism? The rampant and disgusting racism. You're ok with all that?

How are his policies racist? They are at best insensitive but lawful nonetheless. Or does anybody going right wing on immigration a blatant racist?

So you're just not even explaining your position on his bigoted viewpoints.

Defending anything Trump in this forum seems to be taking a highly contrarian viewpoint and in serious debates seems to run out of tolerance threshold for moderation on this forum (at least in my personal experience). Maybe if the mods could take it easy we could have more proactive discussion regarding Trump.