MASS EFFECT: ANDROMEDA – Gameplay Series #1: Combat

pmj

Member
Jan 6, 2009
1,550
0
0
I don't think they'll allow you to meaningfully synergize multiple profiles in combat. Letting you do that seems to me like it would defeat the purpose of the whole building your own class thing they're doing (since then you could do anything), as well as be game-breaking.

I think they'll either only allow switching out of combat, or let you switch whenever but hit you with a long cooldown before your abilities are usable again.
 

prag16

Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,382
1,544
500
I don't think they'll allow you to meaningfully synergize multiple profiles in combat. Letting you do that seems to me like it would defeat the purpose of the whole building your own class thing they're doing (since then you could do anything), as well as be game-breaking.

I think they'll either only allow switching out of combat, or let you switch whenever but hit you with a long cooldown before your abilities are usable again.
I agree. I can't see them making totally seamless switching on demand. Hardly any point in building specialized classes or loadouts if you can just gave everything. Does seem like it would break the game, of at least make some of the mechanics pointless.
 

GenericBadGuy

Member
Aug 13, 2012
1,620
0
0
31
United States
I'm glad the combat looks fluid and great, but I worry more about exploration, characters, and story. Hopefully the video reveals will do those justice soon, as the material we've seen so far has not.
 

John Petrucci

Member
Apr 13, 2016
310
0
0
I think they'll either only allow switching out of combat, or let you switch whenever but hit you with a long cooldown before your abilities are usable again.
You're probably right...but damn that would mean really being stuck with just 3 powers at any given time. Seems that could feel somewhat limiting(in a single given fight) on all the class styles besides Soldier and Infiltrator from my point of view, since with those two the focus is basically just shooting things really well.
 

diaspora

Member
Feb 18, 2013
19,071
0
395
You're probably right...but damn that would mean really being stuck with just 3 powers at any given time. Seems that could feel somewhat limiting on all the class styles besides Soldier and Infiltrator from my point of view, since with those two the focus is basically just shooting things really well.
no global cooldowns though
 

Vin_Mistborn

Member
Mar 29, 2016
178
0
0
You're probably right...but damn that would mean really being stuck with just 3 powers at any given time. Seems that could feel somewhat limiting(in a single given fight) on all the class styles besides Soldier and Infiltrator from my point of view, since with those two the focus is basically just shooting things really well.
Seems like we'll be able to switch them during combat, here's some relevant tweets that talks about the favorite radial:

Crackseed ‏@dacrackseed
Too many questions left sir. Though definitely ready for the profiles/favorites vid since that is where I have big Q's left.

Crackseed ‏@dacrackseed
Just wondering how the swapping works for example. 3 slots but potential 12 skills total, how do we swap them - hotkey faves?

Michael GambleV‏ @gamblemike
yup, and off of the radial menu option


Jas ‏@lady_Manhands
I loved the video! ☺️ quick q though: is this ”favorites” system the only way to access more than 3 abilities in combat?

Ian S. Frazier @tibermoon
Yes.


Simon ‏@simonjadis
not sure if you can answer, but does switching power loadouts "on the fly" include doing so during combat?

Ian S. Frazier@tibermoon
Yes. More in our next vid.


So basically, it seems like we won't be stuck with 3 abilities during combat. Since there are 4 favorite loadouts to choose from, that's 12 abilities to choose from during battle.
 

John Petrucci

Member
Apr 13, 2016
310
0
0
Crackseed ‏@dacrackseed
Just wondering how the swapping works for example. 3 slots but potential 12 skills total, how do we swap them - hotkey faves?

Michael GambleV‏ @gamblemike
yup, and off of the radial menu option
Simon ‏@simonjadis
not sure if you can answer, but does switching power loadouts "on the fly" include doing so during combat?

Ian S. Frazier@tibermoon
Yes. More in our next vid.


So basically, it seems like we won't be stuck with 3 abilities during combat. Since there are 4 favorite loadouts to choose from, that's 12 abilities to choose from during battle.
Wow! So there it is. Appreciate the info! Really great news.
 

pmj

Member
Jan 6, 2009
1,550
0
0
They say that, but I still have a hard time seeing this working, at least the way we want it to work, with 12 equally usable abilities, so that you could play the game as, say, an infiltrator-adept-vanguard-engineer.

I'm really looking forward to the next video. I think there has to be some serious limits imposed. Would love to be wrong.
 

Vin_Mistborn

Member
Mar 29, 2016
178
0
0
Wow! So there it is. Appreciate the info! Really great news.
Yeah. My guess however, is that the 4 favorite loadouts won't be available from the start. Like for example, as you progress through the story or as your level rises, you'll unlock a favorite loadout until you have all 4.

Or maybe not. Maybe they'll be available from the start. Who knows :p
 

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
Mar 10, 2007
24,188
0
1,130
If you can swap sets of skills on the fly, why require the swapping at all? Just give access to all 12 at once.

I want my command bar on PC.
 

Vin_Mistborn

Member
Mar 29, 2016
178
0
0
They say that, but I still have a hard time seeing this working, at least the way we want it to work, with 12 equally usable abilities, so that you could play the game as, say, an infiltrator-adept-vanguard-engineer.

I'm really looking forward to the next video. I think there has to be some serious limits imposed. Would love to be wrong.
There's actually a video that shows the favorite loadout, briefly. You could take a look at it to get a better idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It8lhMhrlbQ

The part I'm talking about starts at around 16:20
 

John Petrucci

Member
Apr 13, 2016
310
0
0
They say that, but I still have a hard time seeing this working, at least the way we want it to work, with 12 equally usable abilities, so that you could play the game as, say, an infiltrator-adept-vanguard-engineer.
Could maybe handle it with stat bonuses for people who specialize in a class (bigger newton and damage numbers for biotic specialists), or longer cooldowns for classes you're not specialized in. It'll be interesting to see how it works.

They have to have considered that being able to be an expert in everything on your first playthrough could hurt replay value for many. At the same time there does seem to be an absolute shit ton of powers in this game. 12 powers really doesn't seem like much if you've seen all the powers listed in the gameplay trailer (I mean that in a good way)
 

prag16

Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,382
1,544
500
If you can swap sets of skills on the fly, why require the swapping at all? Just give access to all 12 at once.

I want my command bar on PC.
They don't want to put controllers at any kind of disadvantage I figure. So many mkb hating troglodytes out there!
 

John Petrucci

Member
Apr 13, 2016
310
0
0
They don't want to put controllers at any kind of disadvantage I figure. So many mkb hating troglodytes out there!
I think I'd lose it if only PC players were able to hotkey favorite loadouts and console users had to pause/use radial menu LOL

Would be like DAO on consoles all over again. So much pausing. And trust me I'd be playing MEA on PC when it comes out if I could. For now unfortunately stuck with the One.

Edit: Looks like my fear might've just been confirmed...Still seems up in air how favorites will be handled on consoles.

"Ian S. Frazier @tibermoon
3 mapped powers, quickly switchable via Favorites, is how the game works on all platforms. But on PC you can hotkey your faves."
 

mosdl

Member
Dec 3, 2014
448
0
0
I think I'd lose it if only PC players were able to hotkey favorite loadouts and console users had to pause/use radial menu LOL

Would be like DAO on consoles all over again. So much pausing. And trust me I'd be playing MEA on PC when it comes out if I could. For now unfortunately stuck with the One.

Edit: Looks like my fear just got confirmed...

"Ian S. Frazier @tibermoon
3 mapped powers, quickly switchable via Favorites, is how the game works on all platforms. But on PC you can hotkey your faves."
That just sounds like you hotkey your 4 favourite combos, not individual powers.
 

John Petrucci

Member
Apr 13, 2016
310
0
0
That just sounds like you hotkey your 4 favourite combos, not individual powers.
I understand that. Was just hoping you wouldn't have to pause on consoles to switch between favorites. There still may be a way to cycle through them as that would only take one button to accomplish. Many are assuming it'll be done with the D pad.
 

AWizardDidIt

Member
Oct 12, 2014
1,342
0
0
I don't know how to feel about the favorites system. Seems kind of clunky based on what info we have. Guess I'll have to wait to see it in action to judge.
 

Sendero

Member
Jan 16, 2007
1,133
0
0
"Ian S. Frazier @tibermoon
3 mapped powers, quickly switchable via Favorites, is how the game works on all platforms. But on PC you can hotkey your faves."
Yes!
I would be ok even if there is a small delay between switching Favorites and being able to use the powers in it -provided it's reasonable. PC has a keyboard, so hotkey'ing should always be allowed. I think they did organize it like that, because each "loadout" has to have a governing profile assigned. So, if they had given us control to handle 12 powers, we would need to instead switch the profile, which makes no sense.


I'm now only interested on hearing about the degree of control over squadmates. Hope there is a way for us to manually "trigger" their specific powers, so we can control the detonations/combos. Losing that, would be a major disappointment.
 

shinobi602

Member
Sep 28, 2010
33,557
3
0
www.twitter.com
I'm now only interested on hearing about the degree of control over squadmates. Hope there is a way for us to manually "trigger" their specific powers, so we can control the detonations/combos. Losing that, would be a major disappointment.
You can command your squadmates where to go and who to attack, but not their powers.
 

John Petrucci

Member
Apr 13, 2016
310
0
0
Thanks for the clarification. A shame, really. Guess I need to wait the next video, to see it in action.
Ugh...it hurts. Thanks for the info Shinobi. Here's to hoping the AI for detonations is on point.

Suppose they might've found that in the trilogy most people ignored their party members and just shot things as a Soldier. Kind of makes sense I guess.
 

prag16

Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,382
1,544
500
Ugh. The hits keep on coming. Did anyone ever tell them, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Like I said earlier, they still have the benefit of the doubt.
 
Aug 10, 2013
46,695
1
0
You can command your squadmates where to go and who to attack, but not their powers.
Welp

this now forces me to put a lot of points into Biotics as I now have to for sure make sure the right combination of powers is done.

Ugh. The hits keep on coming. Did anyone ever tell them, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Like I said earlier, they still have the benefit of the doubt.
Rule of Modern Bioware: Fix complaints from previous game, but at the same time mess up something else a previous game did fine.
 

prag16

Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,382
1,544
500
Welp

this now forces me to put a lot of points into Biotics as I now have to for sure make sure the right combination of powers is done.



Rule of Modern Bioware: Fix complaints from previous game, but at the same time mess up something else a previous game did fine.
Seriously. They have stripped at least three of the features that imo made the combat fun.

It can still be fun I'm sure, but man. I guess it's good that for me the combat was never really the main draw. It can be great or average and either way I'll probably love the game.
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Nov 29, 2006
13,304
0
0
I really don't understand why they would remove the ability to command squad powers. I can't think of a single good reason to do so. They're going to have to do something really impressive with it to make me think this was anything more than a really fucking dumb move. Not even something like a complex if/then gambits system like DAO had would satisfy me. The power wheel and controlling and directing squad powers was the central pillar to what made me love MEs combat. Now they're both gone.
 

amoebae

Member
Aug 14, 2016
197
6
170
I really don't understand why they would remove the ability to command squad powers. I can't think of a single good reason to do so. They're going to have to do something really impressive with it to make me think this was anything more than a really fucking dumb move. Not even something like a complex if/then gambits system like DAO had would satisfy me. The power wheel and controlling and directing squad powers was the central pillar to what made me love MEs combat. Now they're both gone.
I feel the same.

The whole "take your squad into combat and tell them what to do" was the iconic concept behind ME combat. I know things change, and things evolve, but it kind of renders the squad random tag-alongs who probably don't even really need to be there because what's the point?
 

Van Bur3n

Member
Aug 18, 2016
3,013
1
0
You can command your squadmates where to go and who to attack, but not their powers.
What? I would love to hear the explanation behind this because at the moment this sounds like the dumbest decision they've made so far. One of the biggest aspects behind combining your powers was to do it with squadmates.

I consider not having control over squadmate powers a tremendous blow to the combat. No more Lift + Concussion Shot + Warp = Biotic detonation that catapults enemies across the galaxy.
 

amoebae

Member
Aug 14, 2016
197
6
170
I do hope the next video is going to explicitly state "you can no longer tell your squad mates what power to use during a fight, but you can tell them who to attack" because otherwise, even though it's not shown, a lot of people are just going to assume that feature is still there since it was the core foundation upon which all previous ME combat was built.
 

Ralemont

not me
Mar 26, 2014
7,293
0
0
What? I would love to hear the explanation behind this because at the moment this sounds like the dumbest decision they've made so far. One of the biggest aspects behind combining your powers was to do it with squadmates.

I consider not having control over squadmate powers a tremendous blow to the combat. No more Lift+Concussion Shot + Warp = Biotic detonation that catapults enemies across the galaxy.
Well, with no global cooldowns anymore, you can do this by yourself, or perhaps squadmates will close combos automatically like they do in Inquisition.

I certainly prefer being able to command my squad's powers, though.
 

Manbig

Member
Jan 12, 2013
3,058
0
0
I can't help but feel a little bit annoyed about them showing off a new gun with the mechanic of not having to reload, when that's how every damn gun worked in the first Mass Effect. I really despised that change (along with many other changes) in Mass Effect 2.
 

amoebae

Member
Aug 14, 2016
197
6
170
Well, with no global cooldowns anymore, you can do this by yourself, or perhaps squadmates will close combos automatically like they do in Inquisition.

I certainly prefer being able to command my squad's powers, though.
Cooldowns are, however, a lot longer than before. I expect this can be compensated for with passives and training and upgrades and so on, but I believe it's so as to balance the decision to have individual cooldowns - so as to avoid even more spam than before.

I suppose with favourites we'll be able to ensure we are capable of stripping shields and barriers, dealing with armour, have something hard-hitting for bosses, have a single-target and an aoe primer, and have different types of detonators, so we can do it all on our own.

But then, why bother with a squad at all?

And that's my main concern, really. What will happen to the concept of being a commander taking their squad into battle? Will the squad be gone entirely in MEA2? They might as well just be extras who tag along, like Wrex on Surkesh in ME3, for example. No more being a commander of a team, but rather being a lone soldier who's got some friends.
 

J_Viper

Member
Jun 14, 2015
5,808
0
0
I can't believe how great that looked. My excitement level has gone from zero to a hundred.

Even if they drop the ball on the narrative, they at least have what looks to be an excellent combat system to fall back on. That's never been the case for a Bioware game.
 

Metroidvania

People called Romanes they go the house?
Feb 1, 2008
8,788
0
0
In the cold.
You can command your squadmates where to go and who to attack, but not their powers.
Wut.

If the 3 'fave' limit is still in play, even with hotkey swapping on PC, not being able to tell your squadmates when to shred armor, break shields, or detonate biotic combos on command defeats a LOT of the combat portion of being in a squad leader.

The AI better be really damn good at mimicking what you would normally want (instead of something like Mitsuru from vanilla Persona 3), or that's a really, REALLY asinine change, given what we as players know
 

amoebae

Member
Aug 14, 2016
197
6
170
Just want to make a point of saying I'm still very excited to play the game, because I don't play BW games solely for the combat, although certainly in ME3 it's what keeps me coming back for subsequent play-throughs. I'm only voicing my concern about the loss of giving squad power commands because I want the game to be the very best it can be and I don't want to be disappointed - which I'm sure is the same for everyone (even though we all have different priorities).
 

AWizardDidIt

Member
Oct 12, 2014
1,342
0
0
I can't help but feel a little bit annoyed about them showing off a new gun with the mechanic of not having to reload, when that's how every damn gun worked in the first Mass Effect. I really despised that change (along with many other changes) in Mass Effect 2.
It's been argued to death either way (I greatly prefer ammo over heat). Either way in MEA, every milky way gun can be modded to not have ammo and instead rely on a heat mechanic ala ME1
 

John Petrucci

Member
Apr 13, 2016
310
0
0
Wut.

If the 3 'fave' limit is still in play, even with hotkey swapping on PC, not being able to tell your squadmates when to shred armor, break shields, or detonate biotic combos on command defeats a LOT of the combat portion of being in a squad leader.

The AI better be really damn good at mimicking what you would normally want (instead of something like Mitsuru from vanilla Persona 3), or that's a really, REALLY asinine change, given what we as players know
Well put. Pretty much sums up how I feel. Like you said, hoping for some great AI in this new galaxy.
 

steven28

Member
Jan 11, 2011
580
0
0
Essex,England
Game looks amazing i love the faster paced combat.Unfortunately i won't be buying this day 1 as i have too many other games to play but i'll definitely be picking it up later this year