NPD Sales for July 2015

Feb 12, 2015
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So Amazon has sold out of the standard black Arkham bundle? I'm asking because the price has spiked and now being sold by obscure third party sellers which is usually an indication the availability is at an end.
 
Dec 14, 2010
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This is nowhere anywhere in a galaxial vicinity of being a real concern. The architectures are so close that development would continue for both Consoles regardless. (Within reason, of course.) Bigger problem regarding third party support is in making games for Consoles at all.
You seriously think that is their main concern? And you think 3rd parties wouldn't support them even if they were more behind? I honestly doubt that very much. Especially since the XB1 is basically just a W10 PC now - porting has never been easier in the history of consoles.

I'm not saying MS doesn't want their console to stay relevant, but I doubt their number one concern is to sell enough to maintain 3rd party support...they're not doing that badly, jesus. They're still ahead of 360 numbers, after all. 3rd parties seemed pretty happy to support that system.

MS number 1 concern is to make money, in the long run. They're likely taking a financial hit (not sure how much) to sell their consoles at a loss, but the idea behind that is to bring you into their ecosystem. Especially as a digital customer.
Already, there are a ton of games coming to the PS4 that are not coming to the Xbox One whereas there are much fewer games coming to the Xbox One that are not coming to the PS4. Yes, most of these are indie games and Japanese games, but they are games that are appearing on PS4 and not on XB1. Just because porting between the two consoles is easier doesn't mean anything if the audience isn't there to support a port or if MS puts up barriers to developers like the larger minimum requirement for disc printing and the indie parity clause. Thankfully, the audience on the Xbox One is the one supporting the AAA megafranchises of last generation and games in that style which helps MS with the system since those games sell to the vast majority of console gamers. However, the number of games coming to the PS4 and not to Xbox One ought to be troubling to MS.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Jun 8, 2004
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Already, there are a ton of games coming to the PS4 that are not coming to the Xbox One whereas there are much fewer games coming to the Xbox One that are not coming to the PS4. Yes, most of these are indie games and Japanese games, but they are games that are appearing on PS4 and not on XB1. Just because porting between the two consoles is easier doesn't mean anything if the audience isn't there to support a port or if MS puts up barriers to developers like the larger minimum requirement for disc printing and the indie parity clause. Thankfully, the audience on the Xbox One is the one supporting the AAA megafranchises of last generation and games in that style which helps MS with the system since those games sell to the vast majority of console gamers. However, the number of games coming to the PS4 and not to Xbox One ought to be troubling to MS.
So, your contention is that MS should be concerned about developer support because developers constrained by market or budget are choosing their competitor?

Clearly you would prefer Sony's position, but its not like anyone is picking up major big budget releases that the other isn't. This isn't PSX or PS2 territory where anyone is missing out on must play games that define the generation as has been the case in the past (obviously disregarding 1st/2nd party exclusives)
 
Dec 5, 2014
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Clearly you would prefer Sony's position, but its not like anyone is picking up major big budget releases that the other isn't. This isn't PSX or PS2 territory where anyone is missing out on must play games that define the generation as has been the case in the past (obviously disregarding 1st/2nd party exclusives)
Well I have to disagree with you to a certain point there. Four big case 3rd party publishers seem to have already jump ship to produce exclusive games for PlayStation (to a certain degree).

Square Enix, Bandai Namco, Atlus & Koei Tecmo.

You could make the stupid old remark "Those are Japanese games, they don't count" but just to name a few heavy hitters:

-DQ11
-DOA Extreme 3
-Persona 5
-Tales

I would say they are very much getting to the PSX era (not so much PS2 yet)
 
Dec 14, 2010
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So, your contention is that MS should be concerned about developer support because developers constrained by market or budget are choosing their competitor?

Clearly you would prefer Sony's position, but its not like anyone is picking up major big budget releases that the other isn't. This isn't PSX or PS2 territory where anyone is missing out on must play games that define the generation as has been the case in the past (obviously disregarding 1st/2nd party exclusives)
Fair enough on major big budget releases, though often times the must play games that define a generation are the ones that no one expects.
 
May 16, 2006
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Well I have to disagree with you to a certain point there. Four big case 3rd party publishers seem to have already jump ship to produce exclusive games for PlayStation (to a certain degree).

Square Enix, Bandai Namco, Atlus & Koei Tecmo.

You could make the stupid old remark "Those are Japanese games, they don't count" but just to name a few heavy hitters:

-DQ11
-DOA Extreme 3
-Persona 5
-Tales

I would say they are very much getting to the PSX era (not so much PS2 yet)
Big japanese titles with market in west will be multiplat in most cases so it's not like either PS1 or PS2.

And call DOA Extreme 3 a "heavy hitter" was a joke right?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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So, your contention is that MS should be concerned about developer support because developers constrained by market or budget are choosing their competitor?

Clearly you would prefer Sony's position, but its not like anyone is picking up major big budget releases that the other isn't. This isn't PSX or PS2 territory where anyone is missing out on must play games that define the generation as has been the case in the past (obviously disregarding 1st/2nd party exclusives)
Yes both consoles aren't going to be missing out on the main AAA 3rd party games, but you have to admit PS4 has alot of games not on XB1. People love to ignore them because they aren't console selling mainstream titles. It's the accumulation of those exclusive games that makes the platform appealing.
 
Mar 13, 2013
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I'm also going to agree that these bundles are evidence of an incoming price cut. It seems like Sony is trying to clear the inventory of Batman and TLOU bundles. Combine these sales on older bundles with the lack of a price announcement for the Battlefront bundle... I think it's coming.

My guess is $50.
Or they could be trying to make sure retailers don't end up in a situation this fall where they're stocking 4 or 5 different SKUs/bundles of the same product (TLOU, Batman, Destiny, Battlefront, Disney Infinity). Which is probably also a reason why the US isn't getting the MGS bundle.
 
Dec 5, 2014
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Big japanese titles with market in west will be multiplat in most cases so it's not like either PS1 or PS2.
Dragon Quest 11/10/Heroes/Builders will not come to XB1, Persona 5 will not come XB1, Tales will not come to XB1. What big japanese games come to XB1 again that isn't FF?


And call DOA Extreme 3 a "heavy hitter" was a joke right?
I meant heavy hitters to each of the publishers IP's, unless you want Attack on Titan or Samurai Warriors to replace DOA, I think it's safe to assume that is Koei Tecmo's heavy hitter?
 
May 16, 2006
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Dragon Quest 11/10/Heroes/Builders will not come to XB1, Persona 5 will not come XB1, Tales will not come to XB1. What big japanese games come to XB1 again that isn't FF?


I meant heavy hitters to each of the publishers IP's, unless you want Attack on Titan or Samurai Warriors to replace DOA, I think it's safe to assume that is Koei Tecmo's heavy hitter?
None of this games are big japanese titles for west, with the exception of DQ XI (maybe).

Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Dark Souls... this franchises that has good market outside of Asia are and will be present on Xbox One in the most part.

And no, DOA Xtreme 3 is not a heavy hitter, it's a small launch even in Japan.
 
Dec 5, 2014
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None of this games are big japanese titles for west, with the exception of DQ XI (maybe).

Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Dark Souls... this franchises that has good market outside of Asia are and will be present on Xbox One in the most part.
Like I said in my first post you can use the excuse "but japanese games don't count" if you want doesn't change the fact that publishers are jumping ship to make PlayStation exclusive games.
 
May 30, 2013
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I guess as the gap grows, sony can start getting more of these. SV was the first, then FF7R. They should moneyhat a crash bandicoot next, it's rediculous they have cod, destiny, and guitar hero marketing but don't get atleast a few ps1 crash remastered with online support.
 
Dec 3, 2013
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By 'print money' do you mean they are printing their own money just to give it away or burn it?
I don't think you got that saying right. Usually it means you are making tons of money. I don't see how they are going to make tons of money unless everyone decided to buy like 4-5 games with every system.
Print money?
Maybe for wrapping the bundles.

Selling a lot at loss does not equal profit.
They're going to sell a ton without the coupon deals they will put out like last year because Halo 5 is an absolute monster.
 
Nov 3, 2014
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Like I said in my first post you can use the excuse "but japanese games don't count" if you want doesn't change the fact that publishers are jumping ship to make PlayStation exclusive games.
I think it means it has lot to do how poorly Xbox One is selling in east, especially in Japan. Why would they port games so few people would buy it in west and few in Japan.
 
Jul 23, 2015
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None of this games are big japanese titles for west, with the exception of DQ XI (maybe).

Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Dark Souls... this franchises that has good market outside of Asia are and will be present on Xbox One in the most part.

And no, DOA Xtreme 3 is not a heavy hitter, it's a small launch even in Japan.
I think at this point Persona 5 will be a bigger title in the west than DQXI. Didn't P4G sell a mil?
 
Nov 3, 2014
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What kind of numbers are you predicting? I think the game itself will sell incredibly well, but not so sure it will cause a huge spike in sales like Destiny did for PS4 last year.
You didn't ask me but I answer too. It's very interesting to see how Halo 5 sells. Halo 4 sold very well, but players left it pretty quickly and MCC's disastrous launch must have left sour taste into many mouths. But then again it's Halo with new story and well received MP in beta. So it's very hard to predict what happens when it launches.
 
Nov 18, 2013
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You didn't ask me but I answer too. It's very interesting to see how Halo 5 sells. Halo 4 sold very well, but players left it pretty quickly and MCC's disastrous launch must have left sour taste into many mouths. But then again it's Halo with new story and well received MP in beta. So it's very hard to predict what happens when it launches.
There was a long pause after the last full Halo and it's the first full Halo on this gen.
So there might be big thirst.
On the other hand the excitement for the franchise could have cooled down.
Also, Halo was the synonyme for the best FPS you could play on console. Let's see if they can get the crown back from all the others like Destiny, Titanfall, COD and whatever.
 
Feb 12, 2015
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I went to GAME earlier and they have sold out of Until Dawn? I wanted to play this with my GF this weekend but I don't think there are any copies in my area not even the supermarkets. Very frustrating!

I think they'd be happy with 150k!

I read in the OT that some stores are already sold out in places.

Guess Sony may have underestimated demand..
Interesting!

No stock is a rarity here so I guess Sony didn't ship enough untis!
 
Feb 16, 2010
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Mars
Like I said in my first post you can use the excuse "but japanese games don't count" if you want doesn't change the fact that publishers are jumping ship to make PlayStation exclusive games.
"Jumping ship"?

Listen, I get that Japanese games like those you mention have a dedicated, small niche fanbase, but let's not pretend that they have a significant impact on the US mass market. Joe Mechanic from Ohio rolling in to his local Walmart isn't thinking to himself "well shoot, the Xbox One doesn't have the latest Koei release so I guess I gotta buy the PS4."

If we're going to use the argument that a lack of or low sales of Japanese niche titles on Microsoft hardware is a harbinger of doom to the Xbox brand in the United States market, then the division would have shut down 10 years ago.

I get that some people really like these types of games. But let's not fool ourselves in thinking that the audience that really cares about these types of games would have bought an Xbox One had those titles been ported to the Console. That niche audience would have gone PS4 regardless.

"Losing third party support" implies losing software that could have a significant impact on the platform's success. Arguing Nintendo lost third party support is fairly easy and self-evident. Arguing that MS is concerned about having the same thing happen is semantics.
 
Jul 20, 2011
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Having less games and less variety has an impact on perceived value by some customers. Maybe not for Joe Mechanic but every sale counts in the end and some of those games are good (not huge) sellers.

It's the same with many digital only games even if we obviously ignore them in this thread because acknowledging them goes against some narratives.

Are those impacts catastrophic? I don't think so. That doesn't make them negligible either.
 
Jun 19, 2014
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Dragon Quest 11/10/Heroes/Builders will not come to XB1, Persona 5 will not come XB1, Tales will not come to XB1. What big japanese games come to XB1 again that isn't FF?
You are really reaching. The only Persona game to ever be on an Xbox console was Persona Arena. MS has never had a Dragon Quest game on the Xbox console and to be frank the DQ franchise has really struggled in the west. Also, there have been two Tales games on an Xbox console and MS threw money their way to make it so.
 
Jul 14, 2015
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Well I have to disagree with you to a certain point there. Four big case 3rd party publishers seem to have already jump ship to produce exclusive games for PlayStation (to a certain degree).

Square Enix, Bandai Namco, Atlus & Koei Tecmo.

You could make the stupid old remark "Those are Japanese games, they don't count" but just to name a few heavy hitters:

-DQ11
-DOA Extreme 3
-Persona 5
-Tales

I would say they are very much getting to the PSX era (not so much PS2 yet)
To be 100% honest and fair none of those are heavy hitters outside Japan and I think by the end of this year PS4 will be the only surviving consoles still selling there. Because Wii U is done.
 
Feb 16, 2010
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Mars
Having less games and less variety has an impact on perceived value by some customers. Maybe not for Joe Mechanic but every sale counts in the end and some of those games are good (not huge) sellers.

Are those impacts catastrophic? I don't think so. That doesn't make them negligible either.
If I can restate your argument slightly and expand it be be applied to the Console market as a whole... the significant contraction in the number of developers and publishers making content for Consoles over the past decade has resulted in a homogenization of offerings and a limited breadth and depth of software resulting in Consoles as a whole losing some of the mass appeal enjoyed during previous generations... well then I'd completely agree with you.

And being niche =/= being negligible.

As for your digital/narrative comment, I have no idea what you're referring to. Examples?
 
Nov 13, 2011
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I meant heavy hitters based on the publishers strongest IP, not as in system sellers. Why are people confusing the two?
I'm not really confused, I still find the use of the term heavy hitter in reference to games with limited sales potential and hardware impact basically word salad. Similarly, "big case 3rd party publishers" in reference to any of those listed outside of S-E, really. Assuming my interpretation of "big case" is accurate.
 
Dec 5, 2014
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I'm not really confused, I still find the use of the term heavy hitter in reference to games with limited sales potential and hardware impact basically word salad.
The term heavy hitter to each publisher is the IP that sells the most to them right? Making sequels for such IP's means that the games sell pretty well no? Would my statement be incorrect to say that the names I listed are not the heavy hitter franchises to each individual publisher?

Maybe I am wrong with Koei Tecmo's heavy hitter, it may be Samurai/Dynasty Warriors since they have more sequels and branch off's but my point remains clear wouldn't you say?

When in all of my posts did I mention: "just to name a few heavy hitters that sell to everyone and aren't niche and are only coming to PS4". I don't think less on any of you for having different opinions on the term heavy hitter but the meaning still holds ground for the publisher that keeps pushing out those games.

Edit:
Similarly, "big case 3rd party publishers" in reference to any of those listed outside of S-E, really. Assuming my interpretation of "big case" is accurate.
All the publishers I mentioned have published more than enough titles to justify the term "big case" as opposed to some small publisher like 5pb. or Team17. We just have different opinions and in your case lack of differential meaning of words.
 
Mar 20, 2012
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Jersey
The answer is SFV.

Heavy hitter in more than just Japan? Yes

Not on Xbox? Yes

Reason for not being on Xbox about market share? No

Ps4 is definitely my go to platform, and all the titles from Japan are usually my favorite games to play. I'm actually surprised how many exclusives Ps4 is getting, but U.S market is different. Xbox has sold well and has a market that third party devs would never ignore. I do think going forward, Sony can take a larger portion of the market than people think. They have platforms to sell and capture the market. A highly rated GT7/UC4/SFV with a cheaper entry point could really push ps4. And an Wii sport equivalent for morpheus would likely get a ton of early adopters to buy the peripheral for family. On the other side, MS just has Minecraft Imo. There other IP and brands seem too U.S focused like Gears and Fable.

My predictions this is going to be one of Xbox best holiday, but will get weaker and weaker as the Gen goes on while the opposite will happen for Sony.
 
Feb 16, 2010
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Mars
If Square didn't bring Deus Ex to Xbox, that would be significant as a sign of the platform losing third party support.

But arguing that publishers with low single digit market share not bringing niche games to a platform are evidence of that platform losing meaningful third party support? Come on.

The answer is SFV.

Heavy hitter in more than just Japan? Yes

Not on Xbox? Yes

Reason for not being on Xbox about market share? No.
Oh dear.
 
Mar 20, 2012
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Jersey
If Square didn't bring Deus Ex to Xbox, that would be significant as a sign of the platform losing third party support.

But arguing that publishers with low single digit market share not bringing niche games to a platform are evidence of that platform losing meaningful third party support? Come on.



Oh dear.
I'm confused? I thought Capcom said it was an issue with funding and development? I'm sure cross play, user base of ps4 vs. Xbox, customer trends etc...went into the picture, but the deal wasn't made because of a situation like 3DS vs. Vita where the devs were perfectly satisfied on just one platform
 
Nov 13, 2011
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The term heavy hitter to each publisher is the IP that sells the most to them right? Making sequels for such IP's means that the games sell pretty well no? Would my statement be incorrect to say that the names I listed are not the heavy hitter franchises to each individual publisher?

Maybe I am wrong with Koei Tecmo's heavy hitter, it may be Samurai/Dynasty Warriors since they have more sequels and branch off's but my point remains clear wouldn't you say?

When in all of my posts did I mention: "just to name a few heavy hitters that sell to everyone and aren't niche and are only coming to PS4". I don't think less on any of you for having different opinions on the term heavy hitter but the meaning still holds ground for the publisher that keeps pushing out those games.

Edit:

All the publishers I mentioned have published more than enough titles to justify the term "big case" as opposed to some small publisher like 5pb. or Team17. We just have different opinions and in your case lack of differential meaning of words.
You bolded a part of a post that read:
"This isn't PSX or PS2 territory where anyone is missing out on must play games that define the generation as has been the case in the past."

And started talking about "heavy hitters" and "big case" publishers. The latter not actually a term I've ever encountered in such a context, but presumably the equivalent of big deal and indicating publishers of commercial significance. This, as some sort of flawed counterargument to Stooge's point; weird semantics don't amount to a counterargument.

Only Square Enix of those listed is of any commercial significance in the subject of this thread. Their games of commercial significance to the market that's subject of this thread, and to most of the global market, aren't particularly jumping anywhere.

There is no indication whatsoever that the level of 5th and 6th gen publisher exclusivity is burgeoning. The next Disgaea will only be on the PS systems and it will not signify anything.
 
Mar 20, 2012
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Jersey
If I can restate your argument slightly and expand it be be applied to the Console market as a whole... the significant contraction in the number of developers and publishers making content for Consoles over the past decade has resulted in a homogenization of offerings and a limited breadth and depth of software resulting in Consoles as a whole losing some of the mass appeal enjoyed during previous generations... well then I'd completely agree with you.

And being niche =/= being negligible.

As for your digital/narrative comment, I have no idea what you're referring to. Examples?
But why even write all that, it doesn't disprove the poster you quoted? Even if less devs are making games, there are leas games in general,console market is getting smaller, more are still choosing to put there games on PS4, and that matters to consumers. Think that was his point, that even if a bunch of the exclusives aren't GTA level anymore like PS2, it still increases the value of a platform
 
Feb 16, 2010
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Mars
Why are games being discounted just because they're not big sellers?
Because the original topic of the conversation was:

MS's main concern with Xbox One is remaining relevant enough for third-parties to support.
And the argument in support of the assertion is:

Already, there are a ton of games coming to the PS4 that are not coming to the Xbox One whereas there are much fewer games coming to the Xbox One that are not coming to the PS4. Yes, most of these are indie games and Japanese games, but they are games that are appearing on PS4 and not on XB1.
Which then implies that Microsoft's MAIN CONCERN with the Xbox One is remaining relevant enough for third party indie and Japanese game developers to continue to support it.

The counter-argument is that the titles being brought up as evidence:

Four big case 3rd party publishers seem to have already jump ship to produce exclusive games for PlayStation (to a certain degree).

Square Enix, Bandai Namco, Atlus & Koei Tecmo.

You could make the stupid old remark "Those are Japanese games, they don't count" but just to name a few heavy hitters:

-DQ11
-DOA Extreme 3
-Persona 5
-Tales
Are not significant enough to cause such concern.

The games are not being discounted. The argument surrounds these titles being used as the example in support of the basic argument that Microsoft's main concern with the Xbox One is that they're losing titles like DOA Extreme 3 to PS4.
 
Jul 20, 2011
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As for your digital/narrative comment, I have no idea what you're referring to. Examples?
Well you're actually providing an example:

the significant contraction in the number of developers and publishers making content for Consoles over the past decade
The contraction is not that significant (I can't know by how much) if we include those hundreds of digital only games being released on consoles every year as well as the ability to self publish.

The sad thing is that we don't have data to reach a proper conclusion, at least by what I've seen on these threads. But we have already accepted that NPD or someone in their place needs to reach the digital market the sooner the better for a clearer image.