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[Hilbert]

So it's cool if people vote in favour of the ban then? They're only exercising their freedom from religion which might, to them, include removing minarets from the community skyline.

No? What I wrote wasn't complicated, I am surprised you had a hard time understanding it.

 

[SmokyDave]

No? What I wrote wasn't complicated, I am surprised you had a hard time understanding it.

Ignoring the fact that minarets have no effect on the freedom to be religious, how can you have freedom of religion and freedom from religion if this ban is overturned? If part of my right to 'Freedom From Religion' is the removal of minarets and part of your 'Freedom Of Religion' is the erection of minarets, where do we go from there? When I say 'Your freedom of religion' I don't literally mean you.

What if my religion finds minarets deeply offensive and blasphemous? What then?

This is why these should be town planning matters and personal beliefs shouldn't come into it.

PS: St Vitus' Cathedral is far and away the most beautiful building I have ever stood in. This information is not relevant but I thought I'd share it anyway.

 

[itsinmyveins]

There is no Koranic requirement for minarets and, therefore, no Koranic authority for their construction. So with that doesn't a minaret become a matter for the local swiss planning authorities and all the press commentary about human rights (etc) become nonsensical?

That was discussed just a page or two ago.

EDIT: Here's a decent response to just that.

If the Swiss Justice Minister and the UN High Commissioner on Human Rights (based in Switzerland) are calling for it to be overturned in the European Court, there probably is considerable legal basis.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if its not in the Quran. Taking Holy Communion is not explicitly prescribed in the Bible, and banning that will necessarily have infringements on religious rights. There is no rule in the Old Testament, Talmud or Shulchan Aruch against wearing yellow armbands, but a law requiring Jews to wear armbands will necessarily have infringements on religious rights. Additionally, a law that has discriminatory impact upon a religious group is not allowed under the European Convention.

 

[Hilbert]

Ignoring the fact that minarets have no effect on the freedom to be religious, how can you have freedom of religion and freedom from religion if this ban is overturned? If part of my right to 'Freedom From Religion' is the removal of minarets and part of your 'Freedom Of Religion' is the erection of minarets, where do we go from there? When I say 'Your freedom of religion' I don't literally mean you.

I don't believe I actually said "Freedom from Religion" I said the freedom to be religious or not religious.

 

[SmokyDave]

I don't believe I actually said "Freedom from Religion" I said the freedom to be religious or not religious.

Apologies, you did indeed.

 

[Chrono]

No because if I was living in the Middle East(and depending on where) my opinion would change substantially.

Do you mind elaborating on this?

 

[GSG Flash]

Do you mind elaborating on this?

Yes I would mind because that would require effort :lol

If you want to know my general perception of a caliphate state, it's a negative one. However some places, like Saudi Arabia, would be better off with a caliphate because it would actually give most citizens more rights.

Although I don't understand why we're talking about a caliphate, that has nothing to do with Switzerland banning minarets, seems like some people are trying to divert the discussion from the topic at hand.

 

[FabCam]

If my school boy RS knowledge is correct, I don't see why this is so unexpected. They call from these towers 5 times per day! Surely that's disturbing the peace for people who aren't Muslims?

 

[GSG Flash]

If my school boy RS knowledge is correct, I don't see why this is so unexpected. They call from these towers 5 times per day! Surely that's disturbing the peace for people who aren't Muslims?

*sigh*

This really should be added to the OP. There are currently 4 minarets in Switzerland, none of them have a loudspeaker, this law originated from "the need to prevent the rise of Islamisation of Switzerland" (ie. Islamophobia), not because of any call for prayer.

 

[Dever]

If my school boy RS knowledge is correct, I don't see why this is so unexpected. They call from these towers 5 times per day! Surely that's disturbing the peace for people who aren't Muslims?

They wouldn't have done the prayer calls.

 

[Hilbert]

If my school boy RS knowledge is correct, I don't see why this is so unexpected. They call from these towers 5 times per day! Surely that's disturbing the peace for people who aren't Muslims?

1. They don't call from these towers in Switzerland.
2. One doesn't need a tower to use a loudspeaker.
3. This concern can be addressed via public disturbance laws.
4. This has been covered in this thread a few times over.

Edit:
You know, I am sorry, this reads a little rude, and I don't think it is reasonable to expect someone to read all 20 pages of this thread. Sorry about that.

 

[Copycat_Wannabe]

As far as I'm concerned, these public referenda are a step backwards in terms of democracy. In a democracy the people elect representatives every X years, it's these representatives' jobs to debate, argue and make nationwide decisions based on these arguements and debates.

Is that not what happend here? after much debate they decided that the people living in Switzerland should decide if they want more Minarets in their country.
I'm not an expert on how things work in Switzerland but i can't imagine elections like these are common.