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Too Human Coverage April/13/07 (post #922+ for reactions)
- Thread starter DreamMachine
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godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
Think about how the old GT cars look, and how the new ones look. How much do you think is the price difference in creating one of the old cars compared to the new cars? It used to take 4 days to model one car in the PS2, now it takes 6 weeks to model cars in the PS3. As graphics evolve, the price to tap that power increases exponentially. The fact some games are priced atonly $60 dollars is a miracle given the fact the production costs are 2 to 3 times what it used to be in last gen. If you want graphics like in the Matrix, the old price model wont cut it. The only hope is that gaming becomes mainstream enough, for the developers to actually generate money, else if the customers are not willing to pay then is back to Xbox 1 graphics for everybody...Emowii said:
Maybe Nintendo was actually onto something....
dfyb said:
PC games are released and have 3 different patches during the first 3 days. Who are you kidding? Mod communities drive the maps/aspects of pc gaming. Developers release the tools to do it, and the users create the content. You want a closed system like that on LIVE and you have to go through certification. COMPLETELY different dynamics that can't even be compared.
As for the comment about what is a 60 dollar game, Itagaki worked hard on DOA, made costumes, and everyboy has clamored for more. He hasn't complied though, because he moved on. When someone is working on EXTRA content, it doesn't have to be ready by release day. It doesn't have to be tested early. They might even store in on the disk, but eventually release a small patch that fixes a clipping aspect or something as a small downloadable key. The point is it doesn't have the constraints of the core product.
Think of it this way. A company has staff, and then they take one guy out and tell him to go work on extra content. They then redistribute that guy's work to everybody else when they are ALREADY overloaded. What they did was the equivalent of hiring an extra guy. They have to pay the guy to that extra work right? The gaming industry is overworked as it is. People work 80-100 hr weeks. It is why you get people like Jaffe who end up hating their job and don't want to go back to that kind of schedule. Sure, I'd like to get content beyond what someone is giving me. I'd LIKE it all to be free like Itagaki did with the hurricane packs. Personally I don't buy ANYthing extra on LIVE. However, for the other guys that are taking on that one guy's work who is doing the content, they deserve to be rewarded for working extra when they didn't have to. As long as the content was beyond the planned scope of the game, they should be able to charge. I just won't buy it if I don't want it.
Basically you are saying they should be slaves for you just because they make games. They have a plan, but they should NEVER think of any other ideas because that means they have to go and work on it so that the gamer is satisfied. That means they now should work weekends just because they were stupid enough to say "hey, wouldn't that be cool", and they get no benefit from it. In the past, an idea like 100s of costume combinations in a game like Too Human would have been proposed and just cut due to time constraints. Developers come up with lots of ideas that get scrapped, due to them being considered "waste of efforts". Now they can work on them due to the freedom of time from not having to meet the ship deadline, and also they'll get approved because the big wigs know they can turn a profit for it.
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
Ok, so if suddenly WoW or Diablo 2 had animations like the ones in TH you guys would complain because they are not as good as the ones in NG or DMC? I dont get it. TH has an action RPG type of combat, thus being compared to NG and DMC is unfair, the same way that asking for RPG elements in those titles would be unfair.USD said:
godhandiscen said:
Then DONT PUT THE DMC ACTION IN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE! If he is going to put it in there, don't freakin doing it half-wittedly and say "well, I can only do this part right -- at least it's there though, so just enjoy that I tried". WTH kind of thinking is this? And no, stop lying to yourself. TH does NOT have an action RPG style-combat. The combat is 100 PERCENT taken from DMC. He freakin said it himself. It was copied, tweaked, and in it's current states is about 80% worse than the source material. Once again, stop trying to make Denis' game into something you want it to be instead of what he SAYS it is.
Mistwalker
Member
Spend what you want. Obviously if you find the content worth the price, there is nothing wrong with you buying it. No one is telling you otherwise.godhandiscen said:
The point being made is, that game you think is worth $80 would likely have been released with all its content on disc for $60 before the DLC marketing system was introduced. They would have made up the lost $20 through greater sales of the disc, as it would have been a greater value.
Now with DLC you have the same team strongly pressured to include only as much as they think is absolutely necessary on the disc, with anything above and beyond that available for premium purchase.
Obviously the development teams will make more money in the long run this way, but for consumers it's hard to pay $80 when you know the same amount of content would have been $60 before Live. Note that I'm not including content that truly would never have made it into final product by retail, such as levels or features developed after a title's release. But anything showing up in the Marketplace on release day could have been put on the disc. The sole reason anyone would take that content and put it in DLC form is for extra money.
If you want to spend it, go ahead! It's a free market and Microsoft et al are counting on consumers like you. For the rest of us, we'll have to weigh what we're getting versus the cost (again, free market) but we don't have to like it, or how the DLC system is changing the development teams' ideas of content value and distribution methods.
It seems to me that this game is borrowing from many games (Devil May Cry, God of War being the obvious ones), but it's not bettering those games in any way. Thats it's biggest problem.
The two fisted shooting animation looks like it was ripped straight out of Devil May Cry, but the setting doesn't fit like it did in Devil May Cry. So it ends up looking like a character from a Star Wars movie, shooting guns like Dante.
The GoW like melee attacks don't look nearly as good as they did in GoW.
The two fisted shooting animation looks like it was ripped straight out of Devil May Cry, but the setting doesn't fit like it did in Devil May Cry. So it ends up looking like a character from a Star Wars movie, shooting guns like Dante.
The GoW like melee attacks don't look nearly as good as they did in GoW.
godhandiscen said:
Where have you been?!?!
For the last 2 years, this game had been advertised by Dennis Dyak himself as action game ala DMC/GOW, Dennis himself even talked trash/down GOW, how his game would re-define action genre blah, blah.
then came the meltdown at E3 last year, now DD and SK are singing different tune how Too Human is more an RPG/action
....and the other poster was right, even Kingdom Heart has a better combat animations, more fluid and natural
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
Watch the video and listen to DD words carefully. They are not aiming for DMC style of combat at all. They are mixing real time combat, which is typical of eatern games with western RPG combat (emphasis in correct equipment, leveling, types of weapons, etc). Seriously, I dont know where you are getting the idea they are imitating DMC because thats clearly what they are saying they are NOT doing! Stop lying, and watch the video.BboyDubC said:
Edit: Whoever wants to argue with me, is fine, I respect your opinion. I understand this is an action RPG as it has always been since its conception. You guys say its a mediocre DMC imitator. Fine. I will buy the game, you guys wont. DD wont shut up his mouth, and you guys wont stop bashing him. Nobody loses, everybody happy. I am off to bed.
RubberJohnny
Banned
The New Wallguy
Emowii said:
I don't want to hear criticism of the game? :lol I really didn't like Eternal Darkness or Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes so I already had low expectations for this one. Judging from the screens released it looks really good and at least now I will keep an eye on this one from now on.
I just don't like the usual suspects that don't join in on the conversation before anything is released, yet they're the first ones to show up to bash the game as soon as footage is released.
Vyse The Legend
Member
Ok, after seeing the video, consider me on the Hype Train for this game. Very few stuff coming down the pipe looks or sounds this good. Sure, they got some kinks to work out, but it's coming along swimmingly. Hopefully, it ships this year, but if not, they can take all the time they need.
Personally, I'm more interested in the RPG elements than the combat. We got some small details about that, but not much. Five Classes, max Level of 50(dyack mentions leveling to 50), but that's about it. Hopefully we'll hear more very soon. Really enjoyed the music too, hopefully that's from the game.
Scottlarock
Banned
some framerate issues, but that looks really fun.
vspectra06
Banned
The cutscenes are well directed. I know it's not finished but I hope they fix the running and shooting animation.
Imperial Hot
Banned
The graphics in this game look really amazing, but the combat looks to leave a lot to be desired. I remember when I read the preview in EGM and it said that the combat was going to play a big role, but it seems in the current state of the game that the combat is taking a backseat to the other aspects of the game.
My Arms Your Hearse
Banned
Well, I'll tentatively anticipate the game. Though, if it plays anything like it sounds, I'll be going with the Berserker... however, the Berserker looks pretty crap. Please fix him! The Bioengineer is really slick.
VibratingDonkey
Member
The game does seem kind of odd in how it combines different aspects of different genres. It's like an epic action/adventure/RPG/dungeon crawler. Personally I'm not too fond of the last part there.
Also, the animations are stiff and twitchy if you didn't know. The combat in general doesn't look particularly appealing. Needs more oomph.
Also, the animations are stiff and twitchy if you didn't know. The combat in general doesn't look particularly appealing. Needs more oomph.
The game actually looks pretty nice.
As others have stated, the fact content is being created that's purposely being withheld for DLC is ****** up. Either include everything that's been created when the game ships, or sell it at a reduced price.
Denis talks about gaming reaching Hollywood heights, but if Hollywood sold DVDs at 59.99 and made you pay extra if you wanted to see the entire movie... it wouldn't be mainstream like it is.
As others have stated, the fact content is being created that's purposely being withheld for DLC is ****** up. Either include everything that's been created when the game ships, or sell it at a reduced price.
Denis talks about gaming reaching Hollywood heights, but if Hollywood sold DVDs at 59.99 and made you pay extra if you wanted to see the entire movie... it wouldn't be mainstream like it is.
Imperial Hot
Banned
Well, Denis said that there will be a demo before release, and in the video of Too Human the build they played seemed to be a demo.Uncle said:
The game looks pretty good thus far. I absolutely love the multiplayer features that the game has to offer. Simply can't wait to break that in. As aforementioned, you can't determine how good or bad the combat is based on sight alone, but the animations during combat (as in general) made the whole fight seem..weak. I watched it a second time and had a flash back of the combat system in LoK: Defiance. Afterwards I let out one of those yawns in which a tear starts to form in the corner of your eye. You know the one.
Shadow Moses
Member
Game looks really promising.. but the animations need to be fixed.
and why are there so many trolls in this thread with no bans being handed out like the Lair thread?
and why are there so many trolls in this thread with no bans being handed out like the Lair thread?
IcebergSlim3000
Member
Just saw the video. Im going to have to agree with you guys the combat just doesnt look right. Its an obvious rip of DMC. People can claim that they care more about the RPG elements buts its the combat that your going to be staring at for the most part.
This guy just doesnt look cool when he fights. He doesnt look like hes kicking ass. The fighting seemed sort of canned. Instead of taking bits and pieces from other games they should have just tried to do there own thing. I mean come on knocking people in the air then shooting them is so DMC why even bother stealing that.
Everything else looked great though. I dont see the animations changing before launch so Im not quite sure about this one.
This guy just doesnt look cool when he fights. He doesnt look like hes kicking ass. The fighting seemed sort of canned. Instead of taking bits and pieces from other games they should have just tried to do there own thing. I mean come on knocking people in the air then shooting them is so DMC why even bother stealing that.
Everything else looked great though. I dont see the animations changing before launch so Im not quite sure about this one.
Imperial Hot
Banned
It seems like it.QVT said:
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
The animation looks very stiff. It looks like the character is using only his upper body to swing his sword. His legs are stiff and don't appear to be connected to his actions at all.
IcebergSlim3000
Member
DenogginizerOS said:
I think you may have nailed it. I couldnt really figure out what was the problem I just knew something didnt seem right. The human body is a very hard thing to animate. For some reason the Japanese seem to be masters at that.
Confidence Man
Member
Looks like a mess. One moment the character is plodding along and suddenly he's in combat moving at light speed, teleporting around, feet jittering, and you can't tell what the hell is going on. Half the time he's just swinging his sword around at nothing going through some canned animation sequence. Hopefully the RPG stuff is really deep.
These are HUGE!!! improvements over E3.
This game is going to be epic. I am pretty confident SK will be able to polish out all the kinks and turn this into a wonderful game.
I'm sure you guys have heard other devs say this before, but the polish stage is always when games come together. The difference between right when a game goes into alpha and its finished state is huge.
This game is going to be epic. I am pretty confident SK will be able to polish out all the kinks and turn this into a wonderful game.
I'm sure you guys have heard other devs say this before, but the polish stage is always when games come together. The difference between right when a game goes into alpha and its finished state is huge.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
wow
Mr Dyack is looking BUFF - one more in the eye for the haters!
To be honest, i missed all the "fun" with the last threads - but the game seems to be moving in the right direction. 4 player online coop is rapidly becoming a major selling point for me (and a few others) - frame rate didn't look perfect but hopefully that can be ironed out.
Mr Dyack is looking BUFF - one more in the eye for the haters!
To be honest, i missed all the "fun" with the last threads - but the game seems to be moving in the right direction. 4 player online coop is rapidly becoming a major selling point for me (and a few others) - frame rate didn't look perfect but hopefully that can be ironed out.
60_gig_PS3
Banned
for some reason this reminds me of Untold Legends
laceystorm
Member
wow. it looks incredible and a lot of fun. epic scale. great graphics and gameplay. 4 player co-op. i'm impressed
vspectra06
Banned
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