Gotta find something positive in it.
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Vice-Presidential Debate |OT| The Big F$@*ing Deal vs. The Randian from Dairyland
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Gotta find something positive in it.
Sye d'Burns
Member
You don't even need polls to see who won.
I'm not sure how alluding to the fact that Biden would make a better presidential candidate than Obama helps Obama in the long run.
Fantastic read. On point.
You are aware that this is a paper from Rupert Murdoch, correct? That jab at Obama is the best spin they could produce. Even they know that Biden was the clear winner.
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
Personally I think a lot of this might be a way for Dems to take the temperature to see if a similar style of attack would help BO in the next debate.
I expect to see BO take a similar stance on attacking vague statements and outright lies or changes on positions. However, BO will do it without the laughing and smirking.
I expect to see BO take a similar stance on attacking vague statements and outright lies or changes on positions. However, BO will do it without the laughing and smirking.
It may or may not. The significance of this picture comes from the fact that the New York Post can be labeled as the more conservative and sensational, print version of Fox News.
Krauser Kat
Member
That last ryan meme just killed me at work.
thecouncil
Banned
My lower information voter friend who is kind of one of those "both sides suck" guys messaged me laughing at republicans trying to spin the debate. He saw it as Biden kicking Ryan's butt, hard. He also said he doesn't get what Republicans are doing with their tax plan being so damned vague.
That's pretty incredible.
even more startling is that they had to spell out for their readers which candidate represented whom. lowest commom denominator , average Fox viewer.
Biden came across as disrespectful and rude. Laughing and interrupting nonstop made him look like he wasn't raking things seriously and that he was less interested in debating than just pushing his message through by force. He interrupted Ryan 96 times. That's over the line.
Debate spin proves conservatives are incapable of critical analysis. Kennedy, Nixon? gtfoh
Substance, was all Biden. Ryan was bush-league. This isn't the Fancy-Lad-School of debating, this was old-school politics at its finest.
Substance, was all Biden. Ryan was bush-league. This isn't the Fancy-Lad-School of debating, this was old-school politics at its finest.
They have to be vague.
They want to lower the top rates while closing loopholes in order to make it revenue neutral. That, in itself, is a problem to explain. Mostly, because there's not enough top end loopholes, I believe, to close so they'll have to close other items. Which leads to...
They want to cut back on public benefit spending while increasing defense spending. However, they want to cut back enough to where they are paying of the debt but can't explain what they'll cut. Some of the spending they might want to cut is middle class reimbursements and programs. Which means....
Keep taxes at the top the same or lower while removing public benefits and middle class tax reimbursements in order to spend more on the military and fix the economy. Which is fucking crazy. Or, a completely lie because it can't be done.
How do you feel about Mitt Romney's debate tactics in the first presidential debate?
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
The problem with the CNN poll wasn't that it was +8 Republican, it was that it was +8 over their usual makeup of Republicans. Said so right on the fine print of the poll.
Romney was aggressive and assertive, Biden was just up there being rude and condescending.
metalslimer
Member
Jesus, it's official the Biden had to have destroyed Romney because not one of my conservative friends or the conservative media is discussing anything other than rude Biden, the "bitch" moderator, or how much charm Ryan had/Biden lacked
Ryan straight up lied in almost every response. He deserved to be condescended to. He looked like a 5 year old up there. Of course the only thing people can fault Biden on is being "rude" than people really need to look deeper inside themselves.
Ryan straight up lied in almost every response. He deserved to be condescended to. He looked like a 5 year old up there. Of course the only thing people can fault Biden on is being "rude" than people really need to look deeper inside themselves.
soundahfekz
Member
The guy he was debating was full of shit, of course he didn't take Ryan seriously the kid isn't ready for the big time.
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
He was anything but smooth.
spiderman123
Member
Ryan got bulldozed.
Is this more or less important of the content of their messages? Was his attitude enough to make you stop listening to what he was saying?
The GOP base has solidified around the "rude" comment. Both my parents said it this morning without bringing up any specifics of the debate. It doesn't matter at this point, that's what they're going to hold on to.
When the truth slaps your worldview silly, people hang on to the silliest things in order to keep their narrative in line.
(Paul Ryan is like the shitty frat bro who everyone hated and may or may not have roofied a girl freshman, while Joe Biden is like the lovable fraternity guy with some adorable nick name who's a bit goofy but in general everyone's favorite in class)
When the truth slaps your worldview silly, people hang on to the silliest things in order to keep their narrative in line.
(Paul Ryan is like the shitty frat bro who everyone hated and may or may not have roofied a girl freshman, while Joe Biden is like the lovable fraternity guy with some adorable nick name who's a bit goofy but in general everyone's favorite in class)
Last night's stage wasn't a GAF thread. That look decidedly out of character for a politician.
I'm done with this though. You guys aren't separating issues from approach. I'm just talking about Biden's approach, which seemed angry, rude, and condescending. I'd not be surprised if Ryan got a sympathy bump for having to deal with that all night.
I recall Romney being disrespectful most of the time.
RubxQub
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I guess my reaction to people who think Biden was being rude would be: do you think he was justified in acting that way, or not? Treating someone with respect implies they deserve it...and the implication would be that Biden doesn't think Ryan deserves his respect.
So, people who are pissed off at Biden would have to believe that Ryan deserves respect for that argument to hold any water.
Throw away everything that the two candidates said about each other's plans...and focus just on what they said about their own.
Who could speak eloquently and specifically about their proposals and history?
...what more do you need to know?
So, people who are pissed off at Biden would have to believe that Ryan deserves respect for that argument to hold any water.
Throw away everything that the two candidates said about each other's plans...and focus just on what they said about their own.
Who could speak eloquently and specifically about their proposals and history?
...what more do you need to know?
soundahfekz
Member
Just funny that when romney does the same thing biden did, he's the second incarnation of ronald fucking reagan
When a democrat shows balls, he's too aggressive.
Get outta here with this shit republicans, if you can dish it out learn to take it!
or change back the capital gains tax break and although I'm not sure of how the numbers work, I assume it would help.
Of course the right would never let that happen to their 120,000 friends at 8 million/ year that would get 500 billion in tax breaks under their "plan".
Biden had the right mix of numbers, explanation, and proper cadence. Ryan talked too fast, never smiled, repeated numbers without proper context, and generally looked like he was reading off of a flashcard. That's why undecided voters seemed to break Biden from polls that were taken.
On style, Biden won, even if the Republican talking point is that Biden was too aggressive.
Ryan needs to answer one question; how the fuck do you expect to lead US out of a crisis after you gave the go ahead for 2 wars the US couldn't afford?
The reason you know he interrupted him 96 times is because you get your information from the kind of source that would count those interruptions.
I actually just asked you about issues vs approach. I can see where one might find Biden condescending, but for me his content was significantly better and more detailed. If you want to discuss style vs issues, perhaps you should actually address that in your first posting.
I thought both men did exactly what they sought out to do and not a shred more.
Biden probably stopped the bleeding, but probably didn't gain any ground.
Ryan probably didn't lose any ground.
I don't think this will effect the general election one way or another.
This will just serve as political fodder until Tuesday.
And that is pretty much it.
Biden probably stopped the bleeding, but probably didn't gain any ground.
Ryan probably didn't lose any ground.
I don't think this will effect the general election one way or another.
This will just serve as political fodder until Tuesday.
And that is pretty much it.
Romney let Obama finish his statements. He fought for the last word, but did not endlessly cut Obama off. 96 interruptions is unheard of in a debate. No matter how you look at it, that's rude behavior.
I don't know why I feel the need to watch these debates when I can't stand both parties and am voting Libertarian.
Nonetheless, Biden came across to me as very disrespectful with all the interrupting. I thought for the most part Ryan was more direct, to the point, and handled himself better.
Also, this moderator was much better than the guy from the first presidential debate.
Nonetheless, Biden came across to me as very disrespectful with all the interrupting. I thought for the most part Ryan was more direct, to the point, and handled himself better.
Also, this moderator was much better than the guy from the first presidential debate.
On the issues Ryan was Palinesque. That's what is rude and disrespectful. You are running to be 2nd in command, and in general the leader of the free world, and you don't come prepared. He looked like an amateur out there. Both on the issues and in terms of style. Deal with it.
The best part of the night had to be when Ryan said stimulus was bad and wouldn't create jobs, then Biden said Ryan sent him 2 personal letters begging for stimulus money saying it would create jobs and Ryan confirmed that was the case.
Paul Ryan - full of shit and called out on it. Is it any wonder Joe Biden was laughing at what Ryan was saying?
Paul Ryan - full of shit and called out on it. Is it any wonder Joe Biden was laughing at what Ryan was saying?
Futurevoid
Member
I'll take passionate and condescending than the usually scripted robotic politician. Rude? Eh. He was no more rude than Romney talking over the moderator and completely taking control of the previous debate, IMO (which is a big reason why he won that debate and Obama came off as passive and "not wanting to be there").Jeff-DSA said:
At some point, as a country we have to move on from this ridiculous notion that politicians have to be held to some gentlemanly "standard" of behavior in a debate that many times we ourselves don't meet when having a substantive political conversation. I debate politics often with close friends and guess what? It can get ugly, rude, angry and yeah - condescending.
Sye d'Burns
Member
What specific giggle, mutter, snigger or guffaw did you expect them to point out? Did you have your talking points ready for each and every one of the four score plus of them?
When he wasn't busy getting busted for plagiarism in class.
LowParry
Member
Kayne West Debate School. So good. lol
Half and half
Member
You know what else is rude? Writing off 47% of the population.
metalslimer
Member
That was the point I knew it was over for Ryan. He looked miserable for the rest of the debate and drank enough water to kill someone.
My source was from some retweet of a political blogger. It wasn't even something I follow. And if you need to know, it was a Democrat friend hat retweeted it in he first place.
I don't read pundit blogs or networks. Quit being an assuming jackass. I don't even have cable, so no cable news either.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
That descriptor could be said of Romney during the first debate. Only Romney interrupted President Obama and the moderator. 96 times was is exaggerating as well. Romney was pretty condescending as well towards Obama at times, and he kept wanting to get the last word on everything. The reason why Obama lost the debate was because he was a complete pushover, but you know, double standards and stuff.
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