Support NeoGAF

[Rahxephon91]

Man Weekend Confirmed threads are really becoming battlefields.

 

[Truespeed]

Jeff, Garnett, please don't take our comments seriously. We're just as bad (actually worse) then you guys.

 

[LiK]

Excuse me? You're basing this on what, exactly? An ironic joke Garnett and Brian used to have with me? What "other projects" are you referring to? I am so profoundly insulted by this comment. The last few games I've reviewed for TRS: Crisis 2, finished, Homefront, finished, Bulletstorm, finished, Dragon Age 2, still working on it. What exactly are you referring to? Ask the loved ones in my life where my priorities are, asshole, and how I often don't have time to spend with them because I have to put more hours into finishing a new game every week to be able to speak about it with integrity on a show that doesn't pay my rent. Seriously, screw you.

Guess y'all are right. I don't have the constitution for GAF.

Don't let him win!

 

[JeffCannata]

Listen, I come here for fun and interesting feedback on the show, but you can't expect to have people undermine our integrity and challenge our character and have us chalk it up to trolling and be grateful for the attention. Too few mature disagreements and too many ad hominem attacks for me to stay silent - especially now that I have posting privileges!

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I was going to ask why people were being so hard on the guys in this thread, but then I heard Garnett butcher the pronunciation of Evangelion. Have you no shame?

But seriously, bitching because people don't like a game you like is silly. If they were talking about it having not played the game, I could understand it, but what's wrong with people having different taste.

 

[LiK]

Listen, I come here for fun and interesting feedback on the show, but you can't expect to have people undermine our integrity and challenge our character and have us chalk it up to trolling and be grateful for the attention. Too few mature disagreements and too many ad hominem attacks for me to stay silent - especially now that I have posting privileges!

I love you man.

P.S. put the trolls on ignore.

 

[OnlyWonderBoy]

Listen, I come here for fun and interesting feedback on the show, but you can't expect to have people undermine our integrity and challenge our character and have us chalk it up to trolling and be grateful for the attention. Too few mature disagreements and too many ad hominem attacks for me to stay silent - especially now that I have posting privileges!

So I noticed, I thought you mentioned having posting privileges. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with defending yourself.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

These hatas tryin stop me can't stop my shiiine.



To their defense, these GAF threads recently have turned into bickering about the people on the show, and less about discussion based on the topics in the show like it used to be. If you want people like Jeff or Garnett to contribute here, start talking about worthwhile and relevant things.

The topics are played out.

...but that doesn't mean Weekend Confirmed has the market cornered on played-out video game theory topics.


I know. They got ragged on for too much "theory".

So they switch and talk about Dead Space, something none of them seemed to dig...and they get ragged on.

This is why I don't make a podcast. It's a fuckin' drag. I can process the fact that they might not like the same games I do. I can even process the fact that I believe they are part of a gamer demographic that I think contributes to the simplification of games. They're still entertaining.

Keep talking about games. Keep talking about old games and spoil the shit out of them. Talk about the mechanics. Talk about the shitty part in chapter X that drove you crazy or wildly speculate on why they put that fucking asteroid shooting mini-game in Dead Space.

Just keep talking. I will take spoiled games over a rehash of the same old game theory topics like "the hyper-sexualization of women (and men) in video games." OR brilliant points such as "well...forty percent of the gaming market is women."

 

[MrPliskin]

Excuse me? You're basing this on what, exactly? An ironic joke Garnett and Brian used to have with me? What "other projects" are you referring to? I am so profoundly insulted by this comment. The last few games I've reviewed for TRS: Crisis 2, finished, Homefront, finished, Bulletstorm, finished, Dragon Age 2, still working on it. What exactly are you referring to? Ask the loved ones in my life where my priorities are, asshole, and how I often don't have time to spend with them because I have to put more hours into finishing a new game every week to be able to speak about it with integrity on a show that doesn't pay my rent. Seriously, screw you.

Guess y'all are right. I don't have the constitution for GAF.

Don't leave dude! Honestly you keep me coming back to Weekend Confirmed (and TRS fucking rocks). As negative as people can be (particularly me) I still greatly appreciate the time you guy's put forth in this show. Everyone is self-serving and has entitlement issues, you just have to look past that.

Word of advice: Harness the power of the ignore list. Let us simple folk handle the crazy juniors

It's not a big deal, man. We've all got personality quirks. Just don't have any women on any more.

Why should he not have women on the show? This post is so snarky it irritates me.

 

[Deadstar]

Jeff, Garnett, please don't take our comments seriously. We're just as bad (actually worse) then you guys.

Yes, seriously. Just ignore the comments here. People are complaining about the most pointless things and just trying to ruffle some feathers. Nothing at all was strange or cringe worthy in the last show. I enjoyed it just like I enjoyed the last few I've listened to.

It's just a group of friends having a good time talking about video games. Lighten up. If you can't handle it stop listening. The show is on for free every week and personally brings me a lot of enjoyment when I listen to it. Keep up the good work Garnett and Jeff.

 

[Kusagari]

Listen, I come here for fun and interesting feedback on the show, but you can't expect to have people undermine our integrity and challenge our character and have us chalk it up to trolling and be grateful for the attention. Too few mature disagreements and too many ad hominem attacks for me to stay silent - especially now that I have posting privileges!

I have no problem with you standing up for yourself but it seemed in that last response you were taking it a bit too seriously. No matter what they say all these guys attacking you still listen to your show every week so in the end you guys win anyway.

For the record I think you're the best part of Weekend Confirmed and you're probably the biggest reason I still listen every week.

 

[LiK]

I think it's perfectly fine if people disagree about their views on a game. Opinions from all sides is okay.

 

[MrPliskin]

I have no problem with you standing up for yourself but it seemed in that last response you were taking it a bit too seriously. No matter what they say all these guys attacking you still listen to your show every week so in the end you guys win anyway.

For the record I think you're the best part of Weekend Confirmed and you're probably the biggest reason I still listen every week.

He's got the right to take it seriously, if he wants. Someone made assumptions about his character, and it upset him considering all of the hard work he puts into the show (during both recording, and playing the games to talk about them). I think if you're willing to put someone's character on the line w/out any "knowledge" about it, then you're fair game, get tossed to the wolves.

Edit: Also, wtf is this cartoon horse shit going around GAF lately? I've seen tons of these avatars.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

I think it's perfectly fine if people disagree about their views on a game. Opinions from all sides is okay.

...crazy talk.

Edit: Also, wtf is this cartoon horse shit going around GAF lately? I've seen tons of these avatars.

I don't get it either. My daughter watches that show from time to time. Did I miss something? Have Hasbro products become irreverent and cool all of a sudden?

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Edit: Also, wtf is this cartoon horse shit going around GAF lately? I've seen tons of these avatars.

Don't ask. You don't want to know, and are lucky that you don't.

I would recommend traveling back in time and stopping yourself from ever asking that question.

 

[TheShampion]

The way Garnett pronounced Evangelion actually made sense because it is the same way Evangelical is pronounced.

But yeah, talking about narrative dissonance with violence and narrative in games always reminds me of Drakengard (aka Drag-on Dragoon) for the PS2. Drakengard basically plays like a fantasy Dynasty Warriors where you kill hundreds of people, but instead of portraying the main character like a hero, the characters mostly comment on how much of a violent psychopath he is. The problem with that though is that the game gave me no choice to try and settle the conflict non-violently, but then I get to be chastised for my actions by being called a murderer by NPCs. It feels unfair for the game creators to force players to do something that is morally reprehensible in the context of the world, and then not give enough options to do otherwise.

 

[Dad Is A Zombie]

Meh, pussy in the vicinity can make you stupid. That's not new, so I give Garnett a pass. The podcast is FREE. I'm never gonna attack anyone entertaining me for free. I will stand by my statement that the dingbat female they brought in need not return, however.

 

[Flavius]

"Schtick"?

Well now I'm just getting pissed off.

Relax. Not in a critical sense (or at least, I doubt you're interpreting it in the manner intended). I don't think you're being deliberately insincere here, belly-aching in some feeble attempt to get hits. Rather, it's fucking annoying to watch you and Jeff take the obvious bait and fill the troll's bellies.

The fact that I'm being called out for trolling here, given that I've been actively listening to your podcasting hijinks (and noting my overall enjoyment of them) since I first joined back in 2006 is also pretty fucking hilarious. But really, who gives a fuck? I still post and have fun.

Just wish the two of you would catch on and do the same.

 

[Blazyr]

Just don't like when things get personal.

Back on games, I'm actually not playing Yakuza 4 because I feel like I haven't earned it. How messed up is that?

I did sort of pre-deflect on Dead Space too strongly in the pre-show, didn't I.

 

[Gattsu25]

edit: watevs

 

[LiK]

Just don't like when things get personal.

Back on games, I'm actually not playing Yakuza 4 because I feel like I haven't earned it. How messed up is that?

I did sort of pre-deflect on Dead Space too strongly in the pre-show, didn't I.

I really hope you would give Dead Space another chance before the next show. It really gets good as it goes on. You don't like the smooth controls and shooting mechanics? Even if the game isn't scary for you, you enjoy the combat right?

As for the Yakuza games, I would strongly suggest you finish Yakuza 2. You got me into the Yakuza games when you talked about the first game years ago on 1Up Yours. I want you to enjoy the rest of the series in full because it's so damn good. Yes, you haven't earned it yet.

 

[Flavius]

Games are good.

You're actually one of the biggest reasons I feel guilty for never checking out Yakuza at all, Garnett. I'm sure this has been asked before, but while we're on the subject, could I start with 3 (no more ps2 here ...) on my PS3, and have a good time with it?

 

[LiK]

Games are good.

You're actually one of the biggest reasons I feel guilty for never checking out Yakuza at all, Garnett. I'm sure this has been asked before, but while we're on the subject, could I start with 3 (no more ps2 here ...) on my PS3, and have a good time with it?

Well, since you don't have a PS2 anymore...Y3 is a perfectly good place to start. I guess...

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Meh, pussy in the vicinity can make you stupid. That's not new, so I give Garnett a pass. The podcast is FREE. I'm never gonna attack anyone entertaining me for free. I will stand by my statement that the dingbat female they brought in need not return, however.

Thanks for making Garnett's slightly awkward behavior towards women look a lot better by comparison, Demonius X.

 

[Messi]

Man, I was hoping Jeff would give us some more impressions of WWE:All Stars after another week possibly playing it. After his outburst about the character models last week it would be interesting to see if it grew on him or kept getting in the way.

 

[firehawk12]

Back on games, I'm actually not playing Yakuza 4 because I feel like I haven't earned it. How messed up is that?

I think you should just skip to it. Gameplay-wise, 4 is a bit of a departure with the new move sets and story-wise, the recaps are decent enough that you can jump in to the story and not miss too much.

I felt bad when I skipped 2 to go straight into 3, but the recap and the awesome gameplay/storytelling was enough to assuage my guilt. Don't feel like you have to finish the last game to get to the next game... and I'm sure Sega won't mind either, especially if you end up talking about it on the show. :lol

(Especially since the game is pretty much dead in the western press!)

 

[Flavius]

Well, since you don't have a PS2 anymore...Y3 is a perfectly good place to start. I guess...

Poorly framed question on my part...mea culpa. What I was getting at is: if I'm someone who tends to really get into the narrative, just how lost will I feel, trying to relate to the characters and story in 3? Does it relate back to 1 & 2 much, or is it more occasional nods, not crucial to the story, but acknowledging that history?

EDIT: Garnett hasn't played 3 either? A-ha! Welp...question stands...definitely appreciate any input anyone has to offer.

 

[LiK]

Poorly framed question on my part...mea culpa. What I was getting at is: if I'm someone who tends to really get into the narrative, just how lost will I feel, trying to relate to the characters and story in 3? Does it relate back to 1 & 2 much, or is it more occasional nods, not crucial to the story, but acknowledging that history?

I would highly recommend getting your hands on a PS2 Slim and starting with the first game. It's because there are so many returning characters and in-jokes that carry over to the sequels that it makes it worthwhile to play the first two.

People constantly say, "well, they have recaps!". The recaps are shit because they don't even mention characters that end up becoming major players in Y3 so you might be a lil lost as to their relationship with the Kiryu. Thats why I constantly encourage people to play them all in order for the best experience.

 

[firehawk12]

Poorly framed question on my part...mea culpa. What I was getting at is: if I'm someone who tends to really get into the narrative, just how lost will I feel, trying to relate to the characters and story in 3? Does it relate back to 1 & 2 much, or is it more occasional nods, not crucial to the story, but acknowledging that history?

EDIT: Garnett hasn't played 3 either? A-ha! Welp...question stands...definitely appreciate any input anyone has to offer.

Stuff comes up and references are made to past events, but you don't need to be intimately known with the facts.

 

[Flavius]

I would highly recommend getting your hands on a PS2 Slim and starting with the first game. It's because there are so many returning characters and in-jokes that carry over to the sequels that it makes it worthwhile to play the first two.

People constantly say, "well, they have recaps!". The recaps are shit because they don't even mention characters that end up becoming major players in Y3 so you might be a lil lost as to their relationship with the Kiryu. Thats why I constantly encourage people to play them all in order for the best experience.

Thanks. I was actually thinking of picking up a PS2 for my kids' playroom. Doesn't have to be just for the kiddies, though!

 

[LiK]

Thanks. I was actually thinking of picking up a PS2 for my kids' playroom. Doesn't have to be just for the kiddies, though!

*thumbs up*

 

[EleventhDoctor]

Just so I'm keeping score-
FEAR series: awesome
Dead Space series: dull

 

[DaBuddaDa]

As someone who has played System Shock 2, Half-Life, Doom 3, Silent Hill, Resident Evil 4, Bioshock, etc., all before playing Dead Space, Dead Space just felt lacking in every aspect when compared to individual parts of these other, superior games.

 

[firehawk12]

I would highly recommend getting your hands on a PS2 Slim and starting with the first game. It's because there are so many returning characters and in-jokes that carry over to the sequels that it makes it worthwhile to play the first two.

People constantly say, "well, they have recaps!". The recaps are shit because they don't even mention characters that end up becoming major players in Y3 so you might be a lil lost as to their relationship with the Kiryu. Thats why I constantly encourage people to play them all in order for the best experience.

Eh, as someone who didn't finish 2, I don't feel like I missed out on too much.

The real problem with going through them all in order is that you're bound to get worn out by either the setting or the combat. 3 breaks it up with Okinawa and 4 with the new characters, but even then...

 

[LiK]

Eh, as someone who didn't finish 2, I don't feel like I missed out on too much.

The real problem with going through them all in order is that you're bound to get worn out by either the setting or the combat. 3 breaks it up with Okinawa and 4 with the new characters, but even then...

I dunno, each game has its own unique setting outside of Kamurocho that kept it fresh. Plus, if the combat gets tiresome, it's always best to play on Easy for the story if you want. I actually had to wait for each installment to come out for the US that took years so I didn't get any fatigue. There's no need to rush through them, imo. No need to burn yourself out.

 

[Brandon F]

My only problem with the Dead Space critique was that I still (having now listened twice) cannot discern what their criticisms are with the game...

It's just Doom 3
I don't like scary things
Dead Space isn't scary enough
"Survival horror" doesn't mean "scary" (despite horror being in the name of the genre)
I don't like being ammo constrained
But wasn't that part in Silent Hill2 where you only had one bullet awesome?
It's good as a straight-up action game

The discussion just wandered all over the place and contradicted itself a number of times. My only real takeaway was "it didn't click with me." Which, I suppose, is enough (if not at all informative)

Pretty much. There was never a point I could grasp what anyone's genuine take on the game was. I'm often in complete disagreement with the panel, but can occasionally adhere to their differing opinions based on a strong argument. This discussion was unintelligible. It really did need a 'Mark' of sorts on to stabilize the word vomit and maintain a proper dialogue.

Only the 'repetition' angle caught any semblance of grounded criticism, but that sunk with all of the poor examples used as a backup.

 

[catotheyounger]

I was going to ask why people were being so hard on the guys in this thread, but then I heard Garnett butcher the pronunciation of Evangelion. Have you no shame?

I am reminding of Shawn Elliott's otaku impersonation whenever I read something like this. "It's Ninja Gaiden. Not Ninja Gayden."

 

[firehawk12]

I dunno, each game has its own unique setting outside of Kamurocho that kept it fresh. Plus, if the combat gets tiresome, it's always best to play on Easy for the story if you want. I actually had to wait for each installment to come out for the US that took years so I didn't get any fatigue. There's no need to rush through them, imo. No need to burn yourself out.

Yeah, ideally you'd play them all in order and pace yourself... but I don't think you should be afraid to jump into any of the games either - especially since thematically, they're all rather self-contained.

 

[Neuromancer]

Guess y'all are right. I don't have the constitution for GAF.

Don't give up, get mad!

I did sort of pre-deflect on Dead Space too strongly in the pre-show, didn't I.

A bit.

 

[DidntKnowJack]

Don't get mad, Jeff and Garnett. Get even! (I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.) But don't go either. I love having back and forth's with you about the podcast. Been listening and watching both of you for years. You guys rock. Group hug time?

If the trolls and the people who take these comments a bit too far run you guys off of Gaf, I will be seriously pissed off.

 

[Aaron]

Only the 'repetition' angle caught any semblance of grounded criticism, but that sunk with all of the poor examples used as a backup.

Actually, their major and valid complaint for Dead Space was most of the time it gives away what's going to happen. See a vent? Monsters coming. Dead body lying on the floor? Not really dead? Enter a small room... gee, I wonder if it'll lock me in and flood the area with necros? This is all providing you shut off the music, which is always drumming into your ears 'monsters 'a comin'!' Knowing everything that's going to happen beforehand left me going through the motions, and once you've messed around with the weapons there was no reason to keep playing.

It's also basically System Shock 2, only not as good aside from the graphics.

 

[Kintaro]

I don't listen to the show much anymore, but I would hate to see Garnett and Jeff leave.

This is the time where the show can really prove itself because there is not much to play, but you have some interesting stuff coming up. Portal 2, MK and SOCOM this month and LA Noire/Brink/The Mother Fucking Witcher 2 Mother Fuckers the next. Mix in some games that fell through the cracks and you've got a good mix of topics.

Just stop falling back on topics that have been touched on countless times.

I mean, the show could be infinitely worse: It could be Invisible Walls.

"So, why should I play SOCOM 4 instead of Call of Duty?" "You shouldn't." "HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR"

 

[sixghost]

Actually, their major and valid complaint for Dead Space was most of the time it gives away what's going to happen. See a vent? Monsters coming. Dead body lying on the floor? Not really dead? Enter a small room... gee, I wonder if it'll lock me in and flood the area with necros? This is all providing you shut off the music, which is always drumming into your ears 'monsters 'a comin'!' Knowing everything that's going to happen beforehand left me going through the motions, and once you've messed around with the weapons there was no reason to keep playing.

It's also basically System Shock 2, only not as good aside from the graphics.

This isn't an excuse for the number of times those things happened(which was certainly a lot), but there were still plenty of occasions where you would see a vent, a body, or walk into a room and nothing would happen. I think there were just enough times where you would notice all the red flags you mentioned, and then nothing would happen, which created enough uncertainty to still make me terrified to walk down every hallway in that game.

I think a lot of these issues got much worse with DS2 though.

 

[Aaron]

This isn't an excuse for the number of times those things happened(which was certainly a lot), but there were still plenty of occasions where you would see a vent, a body, or walk into a room and nothing would happen. I think there were just enough times where you would notice all the red flags you mentioned, and then nothing would happen, which created enough uncertainty to still make me terrified to walk down every hallway in that game.

I think a lot of these issues got much worse with DS2 though.

After the first handful, I predicted every single enemy encounter in Dead Space. Yes, you could pass a vent or enter a room without being jumped, but they tended to be better lit or had some obvious utility, like an upgrade bench of a voice record. This was with the music off. Now Res Evil 5 was very predictable as well, but it changed it up in good ways with different environments or different task. Dead Space gave you that awful asteroid shooting before going right back to the corridor crawling. Zero G was cool, but it wasn't enough to change it up alone.

 

[elrechazado]

Meh, pussy in the vicinity can make you stupid. That's not new, so I give Garnett a pass. The podcast is FREE. I'm never gonna attack anyone entertaining me for free. I will stand by my statement that the dingbat female they brought in need not return, however.

wtf is this shit

 

[MrPliskin]

I think Jeff's point on Uncharted was missed by everyone on the show, and I was surprised he didn't articulate it a bit more.

I seemed to understand that he wasn't upset that the killing of thousands of people wasn't realistic, rather, it was incongruent with the behavior of Nathan Drake as he is presented through the narrative.

i.e., in the Beginning of Uncharted 2, it is clear that Drake doesn't want to kill anyone, and it's been like this in most of the cutscenes. He questions Flint's choice to bring a gun, yet goes on to kill hundreds of would be merc's w/out a second guess (self defense maybe?). I totally get where he's coming from though.

It feels like Naughty Dog wants Drake to be one person, but completely understands that there are certain game mechanic tropes that need to be met in order to be successful as a product (and as a business).

I do, however, think a day will come when more mature themed games can be born w/out th need to shoot everything on screen over and over again. I also sincerely believe that they will take a lot from what Heavy Rain tried to do. Unfortunately, this won't happen until our generation either comes to terms with our entertainment needs, or the industry begins to collapse on itself.

I think the first big blockbuster "Heavy Rain" type game will also be the first to really strike a cord with female gamers, it just depends on how compelling the narrative and activities are.

 

[CartridgeBlower]

Damn, people are taking themselves, and what others write in this thread, WAY TOO SERIOUSLY.

Garnett, you're one of the best podcast hosts there is. Your confidence in that regard should never waver, no matter what.

Back to games, I kind of get where they're coming from with Dead Space. Much of it is derivative, and it can be a very slow burn. I actually think it's a game that's more enjoyable the second time you play it, because you're expectations have been reset and you can just enjoy the game for what it is. Much like the first Uncharted.

But I have to admit, I don't really understand Jeff's criticism that decapitating limbs is 'the same thing over and over again.' If anything, it's the opposite, because it gives you more interaction with the standard 'shoot it until it dies' mechanic that so many shooters suffer from. There's actual thought behind every confrontation.

 

[Nert]

Wow, intense thread. It's a shame that simply having a female guest on a podcast can still freak out (some) forum posters like this : /

I look forward to giving this episode a listen tomorrow.

 

[JABEE]

I think you guys need a consistent third and fourth chair. I thought Shane was supposed to be regularly this year. I loved 1UPYours and I love WC, but I think what is needed is for people to not be afraid to say people are wrong. I think this comes with chemistry that cannot form when there is constant movement of cast members. I think having Shane and Jon on consistently would be good. Permanent members of the show I think would make this show even better.

 

[firehawk12]

I do, however, think a day will come when more mature themed games can be born w/out th need to shoot everything on screen over and over again. I also sincerely believe that they will take a lot from what Heavy Rain tried to do. Unfortunately, this won't happen until our generation either comes to terms with our entertainment needs, or the industry begins to collapse on itself.

I totally agree, but I also agree with the other poster who says that no one has figured out a good alternative.

I'm hoping Catherine opens up some new doors, even though I'm not particularly interested in puzzle games. The QTE adventure game is fine as well, but neither feels like a viable solution to true non-violent interactive storytelling.