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[hey_it's_that_dog]

That's the thing that I don't really get about the D3 AH story. If the game is about your experience grinding and getting loot, who the F cares if someone else gears up via Mastercard? Anyone who buys gear knows they didn't earn it.

Is Diablo 3 about your experience grinding and going through the dungeon, or an exercise in dick-waving?

Yeah, it's the same thing as paying to unlock cars instead of earning them in a racing game. Why would a person buy the game and then pay more money for the privilege of avoiding having to actually play the game? It's not something everyone is going to do, despite Garnett's assertions about human nature.

 

[Kevtones]

Agreed on Catherine. It's probably my biggest disappointment of 2010.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

I agreed more with Xav on the D3 issue: just watching it play out here, just as I figure it will.

 

[pieatorium]

Is Diablo 3 about your experience grinding and going through the dungeon, or an exercise in dick-waving?

everything is an excercise in dick waving but the real dick waving in Diablo is done in Hardcore mode anyway, which as of now won't have a rmAH.

 

[catapult37]

For the drinking game:

Any time Garnett says "on the _____ tip"

 

[Bisonian]

The question I'd want to ask Garnett (and I think someone asked it earlier in the thread so I'll push it again), is if gear was marked would that fix the e-peen issue here?

I could see two different solutions. Right now in WoW when you craft an item it says "Created by <name>" even when you trade it off. What if the item said "Found by <name>" in the description every time you were examined? Another idea is, what if an item is labelled as "Genuine" until it hits the rmAH, at which time that label would be removed off the tool tip.

Would either of these help quell the fires of wrath, or is it just a matter of "real world transactions are wrong and I won't have them in my game, period."

 

[Margalis]

Yeah, it's the same thing as paying to unlock cars instead of earning them in a racing game. Why would a person buy the game and then pay more money for the privilege of avoiding having to actually play the game?

When developers include the option to buy content it also incentivizes them to make that content hard to get through normal means or slow the pace of the game so that players want to spend money to accelerate their progress. (See: most social games)

That is the hidden cost of DLC items and such. It can alter the design of a product in ways that make the game worse for people who don't buy DLC.

 

[Interfectum]

I think Jeff Canatta nailed it when he said where the RMAH potentially effects him is when he gets a badass item he'd normally equip and have fun with, now he'll be thinking about selling it. Garnett's rant was hilarious but I'm glad that he's pushing back... we need more people to push back against these companies because they will push it as far as we allow them to.

As I've said before in other threads, I'm not sure where I stand on the RMAH yet. I'll need to see it in practice first.

 

[Bisonian]

I think Jeff Canatta nailed it when he said where the RMAH potentially effects him is when he gets a badass item he'd normally equip and have fun with, now he'll be thinking about selling it. Garnett's rant was hilarious but I'm glad that he's pushing back... we need more people to push back against these companies because they will push it as far as we allow them to.

If you find a weapon that you know is worth $25 on the rmAH, then I start thinking of it as "it will cost me $25 to use this item." I know you aren't technically "losing" money, but if that money is as good as yours, then it'd be really hard to not cash it out.

 

[see5harp]

I completely agree with the Catherine stuff. It's not really a "fun" puzzle game and most of the figuring out of the puzzles is trial and error. Early on, it's hard to tell what is even going to happen when you push a block forward. Many of the same staircase and pyramid tactics are used up through the end of the game. Camera and movement controls (especially when you fall behind a block) are less than polished. I would have thought the FMV animation from Studio 3C would be good, but no, it's not good.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

I think people are vastly over-estimating the value these in game items will reach. Anyone has an equal chance of getting a drop and it's based on luck. There are going to be countless millions of players all getting constant loot drops. Once the initial market inflation caused by the rush of new players evens itself out, any item that costs $25 would have to be so incomprehensibly stupid rare that you don't have to worry about wondering if you should sell it or not if it drops: because chances are it ain't ever gonna drop for you.

On a different topic, Blizzard is naive to think that gold farmers aren't going to rape the shit out of this system and completely destroy the free market they hope to set up. Gold sellers will immediately buy up entire stocks of a single item and re-post them all at 1000% markup. Blizzard could learn a thing or two from Final Fantasy XI's open auction house system.

 

[Takamura-San]

I think the general feeling is this won't affect games in general for the worse, and is actually better than what ended up happening in Diablo 2. Someone said earlier, albeit in an unsavory fashion, that Garnett's concerns are irrational, and he's more angry about how other people might play the game, even when it does not have to affect his enjoyment of the game in any way. If the fact that other people who you're not playing with are buying items and knowing that ruins your experience, then I feel bad for you that that bothers you so much.

Clap.gif

So much truth here that it hurts.

 

[Interfectum]

I think people are vastly over-estimating the value these in game items will reach. Anyone has an equal chance of getting a drop and it's based on luck. There are going to be countless millions of players all getting constant loot drops. Once the initial market inflation caused by the rush of new players evens itself out, any item that costs $25 would have to be so incomprehensibly stupid rare that you don't have to worry about wondering if you should sell it or not if it drops: because chances are it ain't ever gonna drop for you.

If it shakes out like this then I have zero problems with the AH. This seems like such uncharted territory that it's hard to picture what (if anything) is going to come from this feature.

 

[Bisonian]

any item that costs $25 would have to be so incomprehensibly stupid rare that you don't have to worry about wondering if you should sell it or not if it drops: because chances are it ain't ever gonna drop for you.

People pay hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars for WoW trading card pets, Blizzcon pets, and TF2 hats. I've also seen people throw around $25 server transfers like they were nothing. I would love for you to be right, but at the time we'll see. I suspect that you are underestimating the general populous though that buys $2.50 TF2 Mann Crate keys by the stacks.

I do agree though that the chances of one individual (ie- you, me) hitting the jackpot are extremely slim. I do think the jackpot will be bigger then you expect though. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out certainly.

 

[jyoung188]

Garnett brought the Garnettness this week (facepalm.gif) his Diablo rant was lol worthy. I don't understand how this auction house will ruin his experience at all, unless he uses it. The whole point of Diablo is exploring and finding loot, buying a piece of loot it just buys you less play time trying to find it, and sucks the joy right out of the experience. I couldn't give less of a fuck if people buy their gear, it only ruins the game for them. Not a bad show other than that, I actually enjoyed the music this time, its the first time that I could remember not fast forwarding through the music break.

 

[LiK]

Jeff's comments about Catherine were pretty right on. This is why I love Jeff.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

When developers include the option to buy content it also incentivizes them to make that content hard to get through normal means or slow the pace of the game so that players want to spend money to accelerate their progress. (See: most social games)

That is the hidden cost of DLC items and such. It can alter the design of a product in ways that make the game worse for people who don't buy DLC.

I don't disagree with that. But in this case Blizzard doesn't need to alter anything because the economy was already there. They just want a piece of it now. Might they alter it? Yeah, it's a danger. But Garnett's reaction was wholly disproportionate.

 

[Deadstar]

People saying, "well just don't play the game" are missing the point. People like Garnett are passionate about the franchise and WANT it to be awesome and WANT it to be great. It sounds like putting in the real money auction house taints the game for him. We'll have to see how it goes.

If I only play with friends and none of them buy items then I think it's fine but if one of them buys something it will really cheapen the experience. If Blizzard is selling items why don't they just add the option to sell your character too. Then people wouldn't have to play the game, you could just log in, buy the highest level character and have some fun.

 

[Paches]

If Blizzard is selling items why don't they just add the option to sell your character too.

I don't know if that was a mistype or something, but to clear confusion Blizzard themselves don't sell anything, real people playing the game do. All the items for sale are found by people.

 

[LiK]

I just got to Garnett's meltdown. Jeff sounded like a therapist.

Jeff: "I want to get to the root of why you're angry." LOL

 

[The Antitype]

People saying, "well just don't play the game" are missing the point. People like Garnett are passionate about the franchise and WANT it to be awesome and WANT it to be great. It sounds like putting in the real money auction house taints the game for him. We'll have to see how it goes.

If I only play with friends and none of them buy items then I think it's fine but if one of them buys something it will really cheapen the experience. If Blizzard is selling items why don't they just add the option to sell your character too. Then people wouldn't have to play the game, you could just log in, buy the highest level character and have some fun.

We aren't missing the point. We understand how much he loves the game.

We just don't agree that letting OTHER users that he won't interact with buy items somehow degrades the quality of the game. It does not. Period.

Why do you care so much about how other people play games? If a person boots up Diablo 3 and knocks the difficulty down to easy, are you enraged because they've cheapened the experience for themselves?

 

[snap0212]

Why do you care so much about how other people play games?

if you play online, how they play the game is part of your experience with the game. Are you trying to say that this is not the case?

 

[Paches]

if you play online, how they play the game is part of your experience with the game. Are you trying to say that this is not the case?

Only if you are playing with those people. From how Diablo 2 worked, most people I imagine will only be playing in their circle of friends or grinding on their own. Everyone I knew that played never randomly grouped with strangers.

 

[Kintaro]

If I only play with friends and none of them buy items then I think it's fine but if one of them buys something it will really cheapen the experience. If Blizzard is selling items why don't they just add the option to sell your character too. Then people wouldn't have to play the game, you could just log in, buy the highest level character and have some fun.

Granted, Blizzard themselves aren't selling anything (yet, if you don't think they will end up selling vanity items like in WoW, you are a fool), this is one of my biggest problems right here. Sure, the buying and selling of items was always going on, but it was in some dark alley will you had to risk something to do so (getting scammed). Doing this and something going wrong was your own dumbass fault. You got what was coming to you.

However, now that its blatant and sponsored by the company themselves, I can't help but think that anyone I play with didn't buy anything and everything they have on the AH. That takes me out of the experience right there. Even with your friends. It pulls me completely out of the game and I start ending up thinking "That's a nice $12.99 Axe you've got there."

This is why I don't bother with f2p games. Why the fuck even bother playing a game? Why not buy items on XBLA for your avatar or PS Home and be done with it?

Bah.

Also, even if you don't play with "other users" if you use the AH, you ARE playing with those other users. How no one sees this is beyond me...

 

[snap0212]

Only if you are playing with those people. From how Diablo 2 worked, most people I imagine will only be playing in their circle of friends or grinding on their own. Everyone I knew that played never randomly grouped with strangers.

The fact that you can and a lot of people will play the game with strangers should be taken into consideration, though. You should not ask the question "why would you care?" if there's a possibility that this actively affects someone's experience with the game.

 

[The Antitype]

The fact that you can and a lot of people will play the game with strangers should be taken into consideration, though. You should not ask the question "why would you care?" if there's a possibility that this actively affects someone's experience with the game.

So wait, the simple act of hacking-and-slashing alongside somebody with armor they may have bought somehow affects how you hack-and-slash?

 

[eznark]

People saying, "well just don't play the game" are missing the point. People like Garnett are passionate about the franchise and WANT it to be awesome and WANT it to be great. It sounds like putting in the real money auction house taints the game for him. We'll have to see how it goes.

If I only play with friends and none of them buy items then I think it's fine but if one of them buys something it will really cheapen the experience. If Blizzard is selling items why don't they just add the option to sell your character too. Then people wouldn't have to play the game, you could just log in, buy the highest level character and have some fun.

Garnett can play the game and never once interact with the auction house or people who participated in the auction house if he so chooses. That's the point. No one is saying "don't play the game."

 

[Otrebor Nightmarecoat]

The show was way more enjoyable than I thought. The Garnett rant wasnt that bad. I just heard a dude that cares way too much about something.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

The fact that you can and a lot of people will play the game with strangers should be taken into consideration, though. You should not ask the question "why would you care?" if there's a possibility that this actively affects someone's experience with the game.

I agree that in principle because you are playing with others, the way they play the game can affect you.

Please explain how that plays out in this particular case and why it's a problem.

Is it because you might be fighting alongside someone who bought some good gear? How is that experientially different from playing with someone who found their gear through normal means?

Are you worried that too many people will have good gear because anyone can buy it with enough money? The more expensive an item, the fewer people will spend money to get it. The distribution of items among the player base should follow the same economic laws as when people merely find it.

So what is changed, other than knowing someone might have bought their item instead of playing long enough to get it? Why does that knowledge hurt the experience?

The show was way more enjoyable than I thought. The Garnett rant wasnt that bad. I just heard a dude that cares way too much about something.

He cared so much that he was completely unable to think about it clearly. Which isn't to say it ruined the show for me or anything. I also thought it was a good episode.

 

[Treemonkeys]

They have to be completely ignorant of high level Diablo 2 and the in game trading and real money trading that occurred. Everything Garnett complained about already happened in Diablo 2 on a regular basis and the others don't know enough to argue against him. He has some major rose tinted glasses on how the old game and it's player base played the game.

 

[Blazyr]

Because I've read something along the lines of you obviously don't know what was going on in Diablo 2 too many times to count, let me just state for the record that I'm completely aware of the rampant item selling that happened in D2. I alluded to it with a comment about the efforts people also went to to dupe items. And in closing was quite clear that I appreciate the frustrating situation it presents for Blizz.

None of which was endorsed by Blizz, and yes, that makes a difference. While the cores that stuck around may have gone to the extent to do that, a majority of regular players aren't going to go outside the game to do something risky like that. But buy an item in the game through the trusted publisher? That's a whole other matter.

I knew I was in a minority; that's fine. And, yes, much of my opinion reflects my general attitude of being an evangelist or whatever you want to call it for gaming. I think my work reflects that; at least, that's a goal for sure.

 

[ChristianSpicer]

Behind-the-scenes of video of Garnett's reaction to the Diablo 3 auction houses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQu8p4Ug4Uc

Sorry, Garnett

 

[LiK]

Behind-the-scenes of video of Garnett's reaction to the Diablo 3 auction houses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQu8p4Ug4Uc

Sorry, Garnett

ROFL

 

[Proposed Law]

Behind-the-scenes of video of Garnett's reaction to the Diablo 3 auction houses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQu8p4Ug4Uc

Sorry, Garnett

LOL! I've missed epic melt-downs from Garnett. I thought the crew handled him well, especially Andrea.

 

[HamPster PamPster]

I thought Guild Wars was an MMO. I wonder why Garnett is lumping it in with Torchlight and Diablo

I suppose I need to take a closer look at it

Semi on-topic. Are the Guild Wars books good? I must admit I do like their covers

 

[Ifrit]

I can't really see how the real money auction affects Garnett but damn it if it wasn't entertaining

 

[Gomu Gomu]

Good episode this week. I loved the Diablo 3 discussion.

Behind-the-scenes of video of Garnett's reaction to the Diablo 3 auction houses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQu8p4Ug4Uc

Sorry, Garnett

 

[sixghost]

That was some grade-A awkwardness when Garnett initially freaked out about D3. The other 3 seemed genuinely shocked that he was that mad.

I'm glad I gave the podcast another shot, the last 2 weeks have been excellent.

 

[JABEE]

I don't really understand why Garnett is upset. A lot of the items in Diablo II were duped so much that their rarity ceased to matter. I remember there being open games where people just tossed away super rare items that were most likely copied items. Also there was an entire market for selling items for Diablo though means that were not supported by Blizzard. People have always done that and will do it without Blizzard's permission. This seems like a way for Blizzard to get a piece of the pie and also help its users avoid the dangers of fraudulent transactions. I don't understand what Garnett means at all. Someone who is that passionate about Diablo that these types of activities have been present in the game for years.

 

[SkinnyPupp]

IMO, if this auction house existed in WoW, then you woul dhave a real issue. But bottom line is, in Diablo 3, whether people pay for their items of find them, it won't affect anyone but them.

Here's something not many people have brought up;

If anything, this move will significantly pad Diablo III sales figures. Activision wisely separated all the auction houses by region, meaning all the farmers in China will have to buy 3 or 4 copies of the game to sell on various houses.

Out of the 12 million subscribers to WoW, 7 to 10 million are most likely farm accounts in China. This gives Diablo III the potential to have 20-30 million subscribers or more, if the auction house is lucrative... insane!

 

[Kintaro]

Out of the 12 million subscribers to WoW, 7 to 10 million are most likely farm accounts in China. This gives Diablo III the potential to have 20-30 million subscribers or more, if the auction house is lucrative... insane!

Do you really expect this to sell 20-30 million copies? Not going to happen.

 

[SkinnyPupp]

Do you really expect this to sell 20-30 million copies? Not going to happen.

I don't "expect" it to happen, but acknowledge that if it did, the real money auction house is responsible for it.

Nobody "expected" WoW to have 12 million subscribers, but because of rampant gold farming, it got there. If the "real" install base of D3 is higher than the "real" install base of WoW's 3-5 million, sure why not right?

 

[HamPster PamPster]

Oh god, I listened to Garnett on the Pixel Junk Radio podcast

It makes Weekend Confirmed look like childs play

I want a Pixel Junk Radio drinking game

 

[Zzoram]

IMO, if this auction house existed in WoW, then you woul dhave a real issue. But bottom line is, in Diablo 3, whether people pay for their items of find them, it won't affect anyone but them.

Here's something not many people have brought up;

If anything, this move will significantly pad Diablo III sales figures. Activision wisely separated all the auction houses by region, meaning all the farmers in China will have to buy 3 or 4 copies of the game to sell on various houses.

Out of the 12 million subscribers to WoW, 7 to 10 million are most likely farm accounts in China. This gives Diablo III the potential to have 20-30 million subscribers or more, if the auction house is lucrative... insane!

Nope. If the RMAH existed in WoW, everything would be exactly the same, except Gold Farmers would be selling their stuff through the game instead of Ebay or sketchy websites.

All that the RMAH does is bring a formerly unsanctioned illegal activity into the game, making it sanctioned and legal.

 

[Ricker]

andrea rennee looks like my aunt

:|

I would like to meet your aunt please lol .

I like her,her laugh is awesome

Andrea ``Ooopsie`` Rene

http://www.youtube.com/user/ClevverGames#p/search/5/_Z9YFkUYVlc

Err about the episode,wow at Garnett,he was getting really upset there for a while lol

 

[AkuMifune]

I don't really understand why Garnett is upset. A lot of the items in Diablo II were duped so much that their rarity ceased to matter. I remember there being open games where people just tossed away super rare items that were most likely copied items. Also there was an entire market for selling items for Diablo though means that were not supported by Blizzard. People have always done that and will do it without Blizzard's permission. This seems like a way for Blizzard to get a piece of the pie and also help its users avoid the dangers of fraudulent transactions. I don't understand what Garnett means at all. Someone who is that passionate about Diablo that these types of activities have been present in the game for years.

But in the beginning at least the rare loot will be really cool to find, and if any asshat can just buy it, it kinda makes all of the loot in the game less meaningful, even if you never buy any of it yourself. I can kinda see his point, and I feel like there was a time everyone would have been up in arms about this, but for some reason no one else seems to care. Maybe we just all want Diablo 3 so badly.

 

[Zzoram]

But in the beginning at least the rare loot will be really cool to find, and if any asshat can just buy it, it kinda makes all of the loot in the game less meaningful, even if you never buy any of it yourself. I can kinda see his point, and I feel like there was a time everyone would have been up in arms about this, but for some reason no one else seems to care. Maybe we just all want Diablo 3 so badly.

It'll still be equally rare. For someone to sell the loot, they have to give it up. If only 1 Godly Plate of the Whale is around for a month, even if it gets sold around, it'll still be the only one for that month.

 

[The Antitype]

I would like to meet your aunt please lol .

I like her,her laugh is awesome

Andrea ``Ooopsie`` Rene

http://www.youtube.com/user/ClevverGames#p/search/5/_Z9YFkUYVlc

Err about the episode,wow at Garnett,he was getting really upset there for a while lol

Ok, that 'oopsie' was actually really cute.

 

[Taoofberg]

I thought the RMAH rant would be about how Blizzard is taking a cut. Since Blizzard controls the item drops and they get a piece of every sale, not to mention a flate rate just for listing your item, isn't there a huge incentive for them to skew the loot distribution to the harder-to-get side?

I like non-MMO loot games because they aren't such massive timesinks for super cool items. But wouldn't this create an incentive to make time-intensive items even more time-intensive, so less committed players crack open their wallets? Or do you think the the loot distribution will be just like it would if there was no RMAH? If it doesn't change the odds of someone who just wants to play getting cool items, I don't agree with being upset by other people paying their was into items they probably wouldn't get on their own.

 

[JABEE]

But in the beginning at least the rare loot will be really cool to find, and if any asshat can just buy it, it kinda makes all of the loot in the game less meaningful, even if you never buy any of it yourself. I can kinda see his point, and I feel like there was a time everyone would have been up in arms about this, but for some reason no one else seems to care. Maybe we just all want Diablo 3 so badly.

I'm not up in arms about it because it's been around for almost 10 years. Adding the auction house adds more legitimacy to the game. People will buy items no matter what you do, why not profit off of that market instead of ignoring it?