PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Maybe this is how Bethesda gets back at the modding community over last year's "paid mod" debacle.
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Apparently Bethesda ripped off a New Vegas mod for a Far Habor Quest in Fallout 4
- Thread starter Sou Da
- Start date
nckillthegrimace
Member
Fraud Howard?
Spacejaws
Member
So people are saying he has no legal recourse but if the ideas/writing were pilfered isnt that jusitifcation?
Bethesda own the engine/game but if the modder had copyrighted it for story/characters/script then that should be protected shouldn't it?
Not saying it would go far, infact it would likely fall flat on its face like the guy who claimed Terminator stole his novels plot etc. I dont think they go very far because it is so hard to prove.
I know scriptwriters that are wary of submissions because they have had a script rejected then years later saw the same studio make something similar. BBC are apparently supposedly bad because the treatments they reject use to just lie around until stumbled upon years later. Thats the hearsay anyway.
Bethesda own the engine/game but if the modder had copyrighted it for story/characters/script then that should be protected shouldn't it?
Not saying it would go far, infact it would likely fall flat on its face like the guy who claimed Terminator stole his novels plot etc. I dont think they go very far because it is so hard to prove.
I know scriptwriters that are wary of submissions because they have had a script rejected then years later saw the same studio make something similar. BBC are apparently supposedly bad because the treatments they reject use to just lie around until stumbled upon years later. Thats the hearsay anyway.
So many of my friends use Idlemaster/Durante fixes/Enhanced Steam and it's always funny when I'm thinking "you know, it's funny that no one knows the guys who made those, yet they're just chilling in SteamGAF with us all day".
It depends. US law goes above a EULA which discredits copyright but...you won't win it over an idea probably. If you had infinite money to higher great lawyers, you could probably show some connection as to how beth stumbled upon it as it was a mod for the same series and such, but it's hell to prove. You'd also have to show why that EULA isn't valid.
TL;DR version of the case- not worth your money, no one wants it to go to court, it's never been in court, settlement 6 months in.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
"I was beginning to wonder if I had to suck you off to top off this moment of unbelievable embarrassment" is the laugh of the week.
Prophet Steve
Member
Well yeah, but the EULA states that copyright goes to Bethesda, which might not hold up in court, but no modder that is willing to go through the trouble for that.
Heckler456
Banned
Don't worry, people here are making up for that.
Neoleo2143
Member
If Bethesda gave no credit to the creator, then that's just terrible and abusive of their own fandom. This could have been a way to get more people desiring to make quality mods, since there would be an example that they could effectively be canonized. Instead, Bethesda acts like crooks and more likely will drive away people from putting creative effort into modding their games. As someone who only writes as a hobby, I am disgusted with this since someone must have approved this up the chain.
Edit: The mod creator doesn't have to be upset, after all the situation is generating recognition, but they should try to pursue a credit from Bethesda.
Edit: The mod creator doesn't have to be upset, after all the situation is generating recognition, but they should try to pursue a credit from Bethesda.
CertifiedFP
Member
Uh, last I recall, it was players who rioted over paid mods. Quite a few modders were all for it. The SkyUI guys ended up ragequitting and stopping at V5.0 with no plans for future support whatsoever over the program being cancelled.
Let's hope SkyUI still works in Special Edition, because they don't plan on updating it themselves.
My intention was not to imply otherwise. Bethesda's SDKs aren't one-stop shops for all things game design, and even if they were, it'd be difficult for Bethesda to prove that a mod creator used one for all phases of the creation of original content featured in a mod. I don't think GECK even has the ability to record voices, let alone music (which seems to be the only original content in the mod, aside from the writing), but I stressed the Bethesda connection in my original post as Bethesda's UGC EULA claims complete and total ownership of any and all content packaged by its SDKs.
Revolutionary
Member
From the creators' own comparison:
Edit: Beaten
It's perfectly legal and okay. But yeah I guess some recognition would be nice.
Edit: Beaten
It's perfectly legal and okay. But yeah I guess some recognition would be nice.
This isn't "creatively bankrupt"; this, quite literally, is "creatively in debt".
So basically people are being angry for him?
Regardless of who is upset, justifiably or not, this can objectively be called creatively bankrupt.
There is no reason to copy a mod to this degree unless you're completely out of ideas or just want to take shortcuts.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Maybe they tried to contact him? Who knows if many of the developers of that content knew it was based off or inspired by off a mod?
The DLC is a few months old and some of the reactions on this thread make it seem like Todd Howard kicked a cat or something.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Fallout is dead as fuck to me
it's almost like there's more to this than the picture in the op
It's the principle of the thing.
I mean, I shouldn't even have to point that out. Try not to slip and fall off that edge tho
it's almost like there's more to this than the picture in the op
It's the principle of the thing.
I mean, I shouldn't even have to point that out. Try not to slip and fall off that edge tho
InsaneTiger
Member
Bethesda is a joke. This is so blatant, so shameful. They have never made a good Fallout game and they own the fucking IP.
Is this language from the EULA? Assuming "New Materials" means mods, then almost certainly Bethesda acted legally. Modders sign away all rights.
Morally, that's another story.
Birgitte2004
Member
Far more likely this is an individual writer who was out of ideas than "Bethesda". Are people completely incapable of separating the acts of an individual from a group they belong to? Sure seems so these days, considering the number of people talking about how the company as a whole sucks because of this.
Although I'd love to see some kind of story that this was a corporate level conspiracy. Would probably be better writing than Fallout 4 (ZING!)
Although I'd love to see some kind of story that this was a corporate level conspiracy. Would probably be better writing than Fallout 4 (ZING!)
So many people are making a huge issue out of this and painting ALL of BGS as thieves (and Todd Howard first and foremost), but isn't this likely just the work of just one lazy quest writer out of many who actually do their jobs? Seriously, people just seem to be looking for reasons to be angry at BGS as a whole.
Edit: Beaten
Anyway, BGS haven't done anything wrong. If you don't like their games, don't buy them.
Edit: Beaten
Anyway, BGS haven't done anything wrong. If you don't like their games, don't buy them.
Herbspiceguy
Member
I can't understand how someone with a well paid job at a major videogame company's would resort to this.
matrixman92
Member
lol...this is seriously like the best part of far harbor too
M0nochromatic
Member
This is fantastic news. Hopefully they continue to rip off actually decent ideas from people with talent for the next Fallout and Elder Scrolls.
even if they do, they're a big ass company with a ton of creative people. they didn't need to rip off an existing mod.
Heckler456
Banned
As the mod creator himself said, the idea behind the mod is hardly original to begin with. And, really, a good idea is a good idea. That guy wasn't going to make that mod into a purchasable product any time soon, so should they just not use it just because it's one extra step removed from "taking inspiration from a bunch of different sources"?
Again, the only lame thing here was that they didn't acknowledge it.
There are extremely similar plot points, dialogue, art assets etc.
Did that one person walk over to the artists and writers to direct what the area looked like, on top of the overall story taking place during the quest and rewording and reworking of jokes?
Seems more likely the work of multiple or many people.
No problem with them adapting a mod, but I do have a problem of them failing to provide credit or contacting said creator. They may legally have the right to use any mod as they wish but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to contact the creator and get their blessing or at the very least inform them and include a credit or acknowledgement.
Yup that's the sad part, Yes it seems like it was stolen but I don't believe that it was the whole company or more than one person in Bethesda taking the quest and showing it off as their own.
Bethesda should give the mod creator credit. Hopefully they will since this has came to light. It's not acceptable either way for this to happen but I imagine there's more to the story.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
They suck, and they're running an all-time great IP into the ground, so they're gonna get hated. If it's too much salt for you to handle, well...
¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯
Baron_Calamity
Member
They are right however they are disingenuous about the subject. RPGCodex will make a big deal about this and yet never said anything about Obsidian Entertainment's lifting whole characters and plots from Star Trek, Twilight Zone, Night Gallery, and Outer Limits episodes for Fallout New Vegas.
Being a Bethesda fan since the first Elder Scrolls, I had to deal with people have been pissed off for no reason about Bethesda since the days of Daggerfall and newsgroups. I'm immune to salt.
lol delusion at it's best.
WE OF NEOGAF LOVE TODD!
Yes. Exactly.
That is what being creatively bankrupt means. Repackaging other people's content barely iterating on the concept.
Heckler456
Banned
It's difficult. On the one hand, a fanbase loudly complaining must be one of the better ways to light a fire under a developer's ass, which is great for the people who play the games.
On the other hand, to even go as far as to imply that they're running that franchise "into the ground" is a step too far to me. They took the franchise to new heights and brought it to a much larger audience, and even if you didn't like the Bethesda Studio made ones, at least you got one great one out of it.
Zombie James
Banned
Blatant as fuck.
All they had to do was acknowledge the mod creator in the credits as an inspiration for the quest and perhaps send him some free Bethesda/Fallout swag that should cost next to nothing... Just common courtesy if you are going to pretty much copy a mod even if it's legally okay to do. Otherwise, you risk fan backlash.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Fallout 4 is trash compared to any other mainline Fallout game from my perspective. Fallout 3 is a far better game than Fallout 4. I don't care that the gunplay has been improved because half-decent gunplay isn't why I played Fallout to begin with.
but go on, and explain to me how I'm deluded for thinking that Bethesda's treatment of the Fallout franchise is a tremendous waste of this franchise's potential. I don't care that Fallout 4 drew the Far Cry crowd like never before, it's a barely passable open world shooter and hardly an RPG as far as I'm concerned.
That they did. And even though Fallout 3 wasn't perfect, they had even tried to retain many of the elements that made Fallout unique and satisfying as a role-playing game, while introducing some of their own.
Fallout 4 just strips the whole idea of enabling the player to roleplay effectively out of the question. It's unbelievable how much Fallout 4 just feels like a Fallout-skinned Far Cry type of experience to me.
If you think that stuff is egregious, try playing Fallout 2 sometime. Fallout 2 pretty much ingrained on-the-nose pop culture parody into the DNA of Fallout. That sort of stuff is everywhere, in Fallout 2, 3, New Vegas, and Fallout 4.
I don't see the merit in comparing that to basically lifting the entire plot for a mod of one of their other games, though.