Just stop with the pretense that you have effectively read the manga because nothing you say is supported by it.
Bruuuuuuh.
It was specifically noted that the kage meeting was Sasuke's first time using Susanoo and that it was an incomplete form....heck it was just the ribcage lol.
SM Naruto vs Pain was the first time he used SM in an actual fight. I assumed we were arguing under the assumption we weren't comparing their first time uses of their respective forms (EMS/SM), which would be even more unfair to Sasuke.
Anywho... Susano'o rib cages are durable, but to a limit. Tsunade was handling 5 of Madara's full-bodied Susano'o - granted, without armour, and Madara was toying with the Gokage, but the point is that she was doing damage, as were the rest of the Kage.
You need to get a grip on your inflated estimation of Susano'o.
Incomplete susanoo can tank Kirin, perfect Susanoo can fly by bijuu rasenshurikens......SM Naruto is not even a consideration for the league EMS Sasuke is in.
Aight... so what you were referring to by Perfect Susano'o is the Susano'o he obtained
after receiving a power-up from the Sage. That clarifies some things. Mostly it makes this entire argument moot because
1. Sasuke never demonstrated this form of Susano'o when he only had EMS despite plenty of opportunities where it would have been helpful
2. If he had, we wouldn't be having this argument, as that would be insane
You want to assume he had access to this Susano'o, that's fine by me, but the manga doesn't appear to imply he did, only that eventually he might since Madara got to that point with EMS, but Madara was much older than Sasuke, and while I'm inclined to believe Sasuke is even more talented than Madara, he didn't demonstrated the ability until after the Sage gave him a power-up, so nah.
Acting dense are we? I said SM Naruto got defeated by Pain easily.
I was being facetious. Yeah, Pain "beat" SM Naruto - or outlasted him, more like it. Granted, Pain was nerfed in that fight since he didn't use the Gedou Mazou or the OP soul-sucking dragon it can produce, but to suggest it was an easy fight when he lost all but one Path just isn't a reasonable stretch of the definition.
Also, really not the point. Naruto adapted to new information on the fly that he received from Katsuyu to figure out how to beat the Rinnegan, a far more powerful eye than the EMS.
It was Kurama who fought Pain and the only reason Pain lost against Kurama was due to his deteriorating health and condition. Oh and Minato coming in to save Naruto from loosing himself.
It wasn't Kurama that was fighting Pain. We know Kurama is an intelligent entity who would know how to fight and not go berserk with rage over an apparent death he had no connection or care for. It was Naruto losing control over Kurama's chakra whilst the seal was breaking.
Again, this is all beside the point, but I digress.
Pain beat SM Naruto. Easily.
Yet again incorrect, and yet again beside the point.
Conveniently leaves out Sasuke using Ameno to stab Madara and slice Madara in half, more than anything Naruto accomplished. Or how many times Sasuke used Enton and Amaterasu against Obito and the Juubi.
I
conveniently left it out because it was inconsequential. Madara didn't give a shit, he was immortal, high on his own shit and preoccupied with completing his Rinnegan set.
Naruto kept his teammates alive, which I'd consider to be worth more considering saving them actually mattered, and you know, Kakashi and Sakura were assets that in hindsight contributed a lot to Kaguya's downfall.
Conveniently forgets Sasuke using Ameno numerous times to execute the attacks and saving Naruto several times.
Oh, boy, is this one a stretch.
By rescue, do you mean that time Sasuke threw his sword at a Limbo Madara, who still managed to hit Naruto anyway and did no damage? Or that time when he caught Naruto from falling into lava even though he could fly or use chakra arms to grab hold? Or do you mean that time when Sasuke used Amaterasu to get them out of a block of ice even though Naruto could boil his chakra to such extremes he could have melted it himself?
The one time I can think of Sasuke legitimately saved Naruto in that fight was from the Infinite Tsukuyomi, and even then I have to assume that the Sage's power-up would have protected Naruto from it. But, okay, let's assume it didn't, do I need to bring up the numerous times Sasuke was saved by Naruto in that fight? The guy caught a lotta hands that fight whenever he attacked Kaguya, and she was mostly preoccupied with Naruto, who was the only that could actually hurt her.
Also seems to forget how Naruto has Kurama reserves as well as 8 other tailed beasts partially within him while Sasuke has none.
For someone who carries themselves like the lore master of this series, you have no excuses to be this damn obtuse and outlandish and factually incorrect.
Naruto had half of Kurama and tiny portions of the bijuu.
You act like Sasuke was running out of breath during the fight. That simply wasn't the case. He simply had nothing to offer against Kaguya because his attacks were weak sauce, bruh.
Keep telling yourself that. I simply said Naruto got numerous replenishments throughout the arc, unlike Sasuke. They were both said to be tired at the beginning of the fight.
Let's run through these "replenishment" one more time.
1. Sakura healed some of Naruto's fatigue after hours of non-stop combat
2. Obito sealed Yin Kurama into Naruto so he can live
3. Obito gave Naruto fractions of Shukaku's and Gyuuki's chakra
1 was just a small pick me up that couldn't possibly have undone the fatigue and strain.
2 was Obito giving Naruto chakra to live, and while chakra and stamina go hand in hand, they're not mutually inclusive, i.e. it didn't matter how much chakra Naruto had, he would still suffer from accumulated fatigue.
3 were, once again, tiny portions that like 2 and only served in giving Naruto new abilities.
NONE of these examples you picked prove to any reasonable measure that Naruto was REJUVENATED throughout the war, which would imply he both had his chakra reserves refreshed AND the fatigue wiped away. Naruto received several chakra boosts, that was not in contention, but the exhaustion of fighting and performing jutsu doesn't just go away because of it, and the series has been very consistent on that from the very beginning.
Point here being Naruto needs Kurama to even begin matching Sasuke.
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Oh wow, I haven't seen this argument used seriously since the days I browsed narutoforum for spoilers.
Bruh, you're taking that shit completely out of context, considering Naruto just beat Pain, who was a hell of a lot stronger than Itachi who Sasuke had beaten at that time. Naruto had a feeling he would need Kurama's power to beat Sasuke. And he did, but we'e only left to guess what Kishimoto was foreshadowing at this point. I take it as meaning Naruto would have to come to terms with his jinchuuriki powers, which he did in the subsequent arc.
What the manga actually shows is that SM Naruto stomps MS Sasuke, and in all likelihood beats EMS Sasuke.
The amount of times Sasuke used Ameno clearly affected his eye later and Sauske was also nerfed by saying his rinnegan was new:
It's genuinely humorous to me that you only seem to recognise the strain and fatigue Sasuke has suffered from fighting, but refuse to accept the same for Naruto.
He evidently did not use all the bijuu chakra otherwise they would be dead.
No, he did. The reason nobody died was because Naruto decided to fight Sasuke seriously without holding back.
Only his strongest form...
Yeah, as in he used his own Senjutsu Sage Powers given to him by the sage + additional natural energy, meaning he didn't use any other powers beyond that that he could have potentially tapped into him.
where he has all bijuu chakra in him...
Yes, small portions that enabled him to use their abilities...
plus clones of his strongest form and Kurama spending time to gather all the natural energy above the surface....
What's your point here? Naruto can gather natural energy, that's the whole point of Sage Mode.
to counter one Indra Arrow with all the remaining bijuu chakra. Once again this just shows whats been said in the manga:
You're still wrong on this.
Sasuke + all remaining bijju chakra = Naruto + Kurama + all the natural energy above the surface + parts of all bijuu chakra
which is effectively
I like your use of "all remaining" as to imply Sasuke was scrapping the barrel for scraps when he had eight nearly full barrels and a half barrel.
You say it, you can spray it, you pray for it... buuut none of that will make it so.
Come back when you actually read the manga and stop making it up.
I have no intention of continuing this asinine argument, but I would encourage you, again, to take up your own advice.