I think that's actually an interesting part of this debate...whose perspective are we viewing this from?
For example, if we're discussing with people on GAF as a matter of what government policy should be, then I would argue that the pro death penalty supporters pretty much revolve around bloodlust.
But if we're only speaking to the specific family of a victim, then I can see your point. Which raises a deeper question...
Should we base these types of government policies (killing a convicted criminal) on people who are under severe emotional distress? Do we want the government to be as "fair" as possible on a societal level, or should it only appeal directly to people's emotions at a given time?
It's not an argument it's an opinion. I don't see how life in prison is rehabilitating, humane, uncruel or any other of the terms people use exclusively to describe the death penalty. I've visited loved ones in jail before and I couldn't imagine if it was for a lifetime. Both are a fucked up end for a life and I won't defend one while call the other barbaric. Which is the lesser of two evils is upto the individual.Several of you have claimed that life in prison is less humane than the death sentence and I would like to hear your arguments for this.
I don't feel any sympathy for the dude, but it's the principal here that matters. That method of execution was fucked and wrong. What the guy did is frankly irrelevant, same with my personal feelings towards the dude. He didn't deserve that, because capital punishment should be better than that. Because god forbid an innocent person gets executed(BECAUSE THAT NEVER HAPPENS! AMIRITE?!) in the future like this, with a goddamn experimental cocktail.
So he raped and killed a PREGNANT newly-wed, no pity here, actually kind of glad. Just imagining my wife going through that is enough to justify it.
The thing that people seem to forget is that you don't get killed instantly.this one spent 25 years (basically half his live) in prison before his exexution. To me it seems a bit like the prisoner is getting the worst of both punishmentsI always felt a lifetime in prison would be worse than death
Should we base these types of government policies (killing a convicted criminal) on people who are under severe emotional distress? Do we want the government to be as "fair" as possible on a societal level, or should it only appeal directly to people's emotions at a given time?
And locking someone in a cage for decades isn't?
The thing that people seem to forget is that you don't get killed instantly.this one spent 25 years (basically half his live) in prison before his exexution. To me it seems a bit like the prisoner is getting the worst of both punishments
I agree that the appeals are there in place for a good reason. All I'm saying is if we're speaking purely in terms of money spent, the death penalty can save both time and money if done in a speedy fashion.
Several of you have claimed that life in prison is less humane than the death sentence and I would like to hear your arguments for this.
Anyone let's find it ironic that the anti government types are always the ones for government sponsored murder?
What would be your stance if they changed the carrying out of capital punishment to more proven methods?
My heart agrees, but my head says that two wrongs don't make a right. Doing this to him is stooping down to his level.He slit the throat of a pregnant woman... fuck this dude. Who gives a shit if he didn't go out peacefully.
But then we ask 'what is justice'? Is helping an abhorrent criminal like the one in the OP to rehabilitate themselves, justice to the family? To the victim and her child? To me or you? Is allowing a criminal (not on death row) to walk free with parole with the potential to do harm again good for public safety? Who decides these things?So now we are finally getting to the heart of the issue, is jail solely a form of punishment? Perhaps it could be about three things in conjunction with eachother, punishment, public safety and rehabilitation?
Locking up someone for life is also an incredibly harsh punishment, I agree, and that is why life in prison (not just 25 years) should be reserved for the extreme cases where the perpetrator is a continuing threat to society and can't be rehabilitated. In any case the innocent person can be exonerated and released even after 20 years in prison, they aren't coming back when execution is on the table.
Edited as bolded.
Guess what happens when a high dose of the drug is administered...
So, in a way, you're just as bad as him.
Who's anti-government?
It's not an argument it's an opinion. I don't see how life in prison is rehabilitating, humane, uncruel or any other of the terms people use exclusively to describe the death penalty. I've visited loved ones in jail before and I couldn't imagine if it was for a lifetime. Both are a fucked up end for a life and I won't defend one while call the other barbaric. Which is the lesser of two evils is upto the individual.
Not feeling bad about a guy dying in while in a coma for a heinous crime he committed is as bad as raping a pregnant woman and slitting her throat?
C'mon now.
I'd rather be dead then in jail for a long period of time. You don't suffer when you're dead.Several of you have claimed that life in prison is less humane than the death sentence and I would like to hear your arguments for this.
In a way. The idea is for society to take the high road and not deal out irreversible punishments when we know that we have an imperfect justice system that can and does condemn innocent people.
Legalize weed?How do you get people to stop killing each other? That way we wouldn't need the death penalty.
Sorry ... Reduced government types.
How do you get people to stop killing each other? That way we wouldn't need the death penalty.
How do you get people to stop killing each other? That way we wouldn't need the death penalty.
Monaco, where people are too rich to kill each other.You can't BUT this is pretty neat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
There are countries without murder for the entirety of last year. Small population of course but still interesting data.
Nah it's not bloodlust on my end. After an undergraduate degree, working in administration at a pre-trial facility, working with at-risk youth and volunteering with an organization that helps and provides information to offenders in BC, I've found that a lot of violent offenders are beyond rehabilitation and are plain assholes.
The problem is, people in America don't look to see whether anyone else has any successful solution to dealing with violent offenders. The only real problem with incarceration in America is the fact that the war on drugs has been a failure, and that the racism inherent in a lot of areas has lead to a massive influx of poor/minorities being incarcerated. Otherwise, the approach to dealing with violent offenders in the form of harsh sentences, mandatory minimums is good. These are people that will most likely never reintegrate into society and are a high risk to reoffend.
Remove your feelings about revenge/justice/punishment and you are left with a few options for people like the inmate who was executed above. Either they get life with the possibility for parole, life without the possibility for parole, or sentenced to death. In BC, we don't have the death penalty, nor can we deny the possibility for parole, ever. Whether they are released is another story do to stronger dangerous offender legislation, otherwise what happens is, say after 15 or 20 years, many apply for parole hearings that they are legally entitled to, what happens is that they know they won't be granted parole, but it still revictimizes family members who have to go to these hearings and speak out against their release.
Whether the death penalty is more expensive overall, depends on the fact that inmates on death row are still guaranteed full rights like the right to appeal, apply for clemency etc. Otherwise, the only reason it costs so much is because of how backed up the system is. People are still spending two decades or more while in prison.
As for the 'let 1000 guilty men go, instead of killing 1 innocent", in this theoretical situation, you overlook the fact that you don't pay attention to just how many crimes those 1000 guilty people will commit. Additionally, modern forensic sciences, investigative techniques, DNA evidence, means it's very hard not to get a conclusive answer to whether or not someone is guilty. Sure there are still racial biases, and I'm a strong proponent of eye-witness testimony not being allowed in such cases. Very few offenders in the US actually get the death penalty these days, and more often than not, real killers are not being convicted because the evidence just isn't there. Despite what the media would have you believe, it's getting harder and harder to convict criminals, with many homicides, murders, manslaughters going somewhat unsolved.
It comes down to what you really want from the criminal justice system, it has always been about punishment, deterrence, rehabilitation and reintegration into society. The man who brutally stabbed a pregnant woman to death, killing her and her unborn child, he has little chance at ever being rehabilitated. Either way, the man is dead, I don't believe he suffered pain because of the sedatives and painkillers used intravenously. I doubt his brain even registered what happened to his body, as those gasps and breath rattles were probably involuntary actions due to the lethal cocktail used.
Monaco, where people are too rich to kill each other.
Yeah..he's not getting my pity.for the 1989 rape and fatal stabbing of a pregnant newlywed, Joy Stewart.
How do you get people to stop killing each other? That way we wouldn't need the death penalty.
My heart agrees, but my head says that two wrongs don't make a right. Doing this to him is stooping down to his level.
Regardless, I don't believe in capital punishment. Now he's dead he's in peace, unlike the family of his victim.
This guy was a fucking monster and people here are actually giving him sympathy for the way he died?
He even tried to blame his brother in law for the crime-raping and killing a pregnant woman.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/15/dennis-mcguire_n_4605115.html
I seriously don't know about some of you people. He raped and butchered a PREGNANT WOMAN.
There is no defending that or feeling sorry for him or the way he died. Fuck him and good riddance.
Cutting poverty to zero would go a long way.
This guy was a fucking monster and people here are actually giving him sympathy for the way he died?
He even tried to blame his brother in law for the crime-raping and killing a pregnant woman.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/15/dennis-mcguire_n_4605115.html
I seriously don't know about some of you people. He raped and butchered a PREGNANT WOMAN.
There is no defending that or feeling sorry for him or the way he died. Fuck him and good riddance.
Yeah fuck the Constitution!!
Yeah fuck the Constitution!!
People don't feel sorry for this guy as much as sorry for our pathetic system.
I feel sorry for the pregnant woman who was butchered and probably was choking on her own blood when this monster was raping and killing her.
You sound like a prosecuting attorney just before an objection is called.
So this guy has been sitting in jail since 1989. Why so long to put him to death. That is a ton of tax payer money right there for essentially no reason. It's not like he's in there to be rehabilitated so what's the point.
The funniest thing about this response is that if this was a thread about the right to bear arms, the response by many would indeed be fuck the Constitution.
Yeah that won't happen just like legalizing every drug out there that people get killed over. And let's not talk about people getting killed over religious issues. Maybe some Equilibrium like drugs lol
Are you defending what he did? Or is this a compliment? Hard to tell tbh.