fluffydelusions
Member
But what to do with people that commit crimes that have mental issues and maybe do not know right from wrong or whatever the case may be?
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Lawyer says Ohio killer's execution botched; took over 20 minutes for man to die
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But what to do with people that commit crimes that have mental issues and maybe do not know right from wrong or whatever the case may be?
Which countries still have death penalties? Oh yes, Libya, Iran, Egypt, North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the US of A of course. What great company to be in.
Still practicing the old eye for an eye, making murderers out of their own officials. But yes, of course it means the rest just "agree" with what the criminals did and that can't stand. There is no gray area at all.
Still practicing the old eye for an eye, making murderers out of their own officials. But yes, of course it means the rest just "agree" with what the criminals did and that can't stand. There is no gray area at all.
Backwards system is backwards.
Insanity is a different thing, that definitely muddies the water a bit.
fluffydelusions
Member
Varies depending on state though but yeah as a country we still do =\
soul creator
Member
But this issue has been debated for years, it's not like there are any drastically new arguments. We pretty much know that as a societal policy, the death penalty doesn't help at all. It doesn't lower murder/rape/etc. rates. It doesn't save taxpayer money. It doesn't "solve" anything in society (which, again, is what government policies are in theory supposed to be about)
So if killing someone doesn't actually solve any problems on a societal level, why should anyone support it as a societal policy? Life imprisonment, while not puppies and sunshine, at the very least accounts for the very real existence of wrongly accused people. And life imprisonment also accomplishes the goal of keeping a dangerous person away from the rest of society.
So this goes back to my initial point about who/what is the death penalty (as a government policy) actually supposed to be for? If it's only for the grieving family, that's pretty much the textbook definition of vengeance (government sponsored vengeance, I suppose). And if we support it because "fuck him, burn him at the stake, should've been in more pain, no fucks given", then that's government sponsored bloodlust.
How else am I supposed to describe it? Again, we're talking about government policies, not individual feelings. I totally understand why people have those feelings, and I'm not even saying those feelings are wrong (they're perfectly valid, actually). I just don't get why we want those raging feelings to be government policy.
Baby steps I guess. =/
Because in theory, they don't deserve to live. Pretty simple. However, we fail at the execution of this theory.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
I think if you murder someone you shouldnt be allowed into society anymore.
CountAntonius
Member
You left out Japan.
fluffydelusions
Member
Well we can't even adjust to the metric system like nearly every other country so not optimistic.
fluffydelusions
Member
What if that person were say um Hitler?
adamsappel
Member
I'm a stone liberal. I don't like it when cops beat prisoners, I don't think prison rape is "deserved" extra punishment even for rapists, for-profit prisons are ludicrous, mixing non-violent offenders with killers and rapists is horrific, and the application of a death penalty verdict is usually blatantly racist. And yet I think there are plenty of criminals who deserve the death penalty. This was one of them. That said, his punishment should be simply death, not a painful one.
I've had pets put down. It takes literally five seconds and seems perfectly peaceful. Why is the same thing not done with executions?
Someone who commits a crime like this does not deserve to live, even segregated from society and in the company of others like him.
Eye for an eye would mean he should be raped and have his throat slit.
I've had pets put down. It takes literally five seconds and seems perfectly peaceful. Why is the same thing not done with executions?
Someone who commits a crime like this does not deserve to live, even segregated from society and in the company of others like him.
Eye for an eye would mean he should be raped and have his throat slit.
hendersonhank
Member
Why is euthanizing a dog always an instant and completely peaceful procedure? Why can't they get it right for people?
With the dog they give it one drug that puts it to sleep in seconds, and then another that stops its heart essentially instantly. Is there some reason this isn't feasible for people?
With the dog they give it one drug that puts it to sleep in seconds, and then another that stops its heart essentially instantly. Is there some reason this isn't feasible for people?
John Kowalski
Banned
It's still rather mind numbing that the death penalty is a thing, it's possibly one of the most useless methods of justice in existence. I don't even think you could call it justice, it's just a legal way to enforce death upon those deemed deserving of it. It solves nothing.
hipsterpants
Member
my only question is for those who are so easy to condemn criminals to death is what would happen if you were asked to do it? would you be able to? and this isn't some "well this would never happen!" scenario, there are living, breathing people carrying out these executions. posts in this thread make me think that people would actually enjoy doing that job and there is no way you can't consider that to be fucked up.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
He should be put away from society. If that means he gets put to death then oh well.
I didn't even remember. It's hanging over there, right?
I think everyone is okay with the execution, lets just not be total animals about it though. The idea is to end this dude, not to do our best impression of him.
Again, this comes with the caveat that I know for 100% that this person was guilty of something so heinous as to deserve the death penalty, then yes. Without question. I'd do it and enjoy it because they deserve it.
HappyBivouac
Member
It means you're probably kind of a bad person, at the very least.
hipsterpants
Member
and you don't consider that to be bad at all, that you would be able to so easily take another human's life?
John Kowalski
Banned
Good thing justice ought to be about efficiency, not safeguarding the feelings of those who enact it.
Because we as a society have deemed murder ethically wrong. Yet we use it as punishment, and it's suddenly right (even when it goes wrong?!).
Not at all. Not all human life is worth the same.
Though I may have a weird perspective. When I was 16 years old I ran over a motorcyclist who was driving recklessly and basically threw himself under my car. I had no opportunity to avoid the accident and I ran over his midsection with both of my tires. He didn't deserve to die, but his actions had consequences and he paid for them with his life. These people deserve to die and yet people still defend their right to live. Why? Why on Earth would you defend their right to live while people who do things like break the speed limit and die?
IMO, killing a human being is killing a human being. It doesn't matter.
Murder =/ Lawful Execution
HappyBivouac
Member
A good justice system has nothing to do with feelings, or really even what you think a person "deserves."
A good justice system exists for the betterment of society, not to satisfy people's blood lust. My fellow Americans disgust me time and time again.
That is the spin the state likes to put on it. They can do whatever they want when they make the rules and define the words. Doesn't change anything.
A good justice system exists for the betterment of society, not to satisfy people's blood lust. My fellow Americans disgust me time and time again.
That is the spin the state likes to put on it. They can do whatever they want when they make the rules and define the words. Doesn't change anything.
What are you even talking about? I just said that if it was my job, yes I would enjoy it. If I knew for 100% that each person that was executed was 100% guilty. If I was the executioner in the current system, which I do think is wrong, it would weigh on me very heavily. I don't think I could live with myself honestly. Knowing that odds are I executed a wrongfully convicted person.
Or that's what we say to ourselves as a society. I disagree. The NAZI's were killing the Jews lawfully as well I'm sure (according to their own laws).
fluffydelusions
Member
But he killed 2 human beings(if you count the pregnancy)?
so heres the thing. pentobarb works faster, but its the exact same mechanism that bzd+dilaudid. so they kill dogs/people in the same way. just takes longer for the opiate to build up to toxic levels. but it's dilaudid. so there is no pain
This is absoloutly sickening. The death penalty is abhorrent and barbaric no matter how its administered. Regardless of this mans crimes, which were monstrous, a society should hold itself to the highest moral standard possible if we want to live in a healthy, compassionate,dignified environment. Its not about what the killer did, its about what WE do.How we treat others. The fact he was used as a guinea pig is inexcusable. Thank fuck i don't live in a country with the death penalty,
I never got this stance. Execution is wrong, but hey, a hundred lifetimes in solitary confinement until they commit suicide, that isnt playing god at all.
Yeah... I can't see how not taking the guys feelings into account means you're a bad person.
Would society have deemed it wrong if the husband caught the guy in the act and killed him instead?
Society makes a lot of exceptions when it comes to things that are ethically wrong.
This is just lazy, come on. Genocide and ethnic cleansing is not the same as a society implementing laws to punish criminals.
fluffydelusions
Member
No one ever said the justice system was perfect
Random Painted HIghway
Member
Good riddance :b
I like that he first tried to implicate his brother in law, then he took the case to trial, denied guilt after conviction for years, a decade later a dna confirmation and then last month admits guilt in a letter? Oh and this is in the confession: McGuires
confession, in which he alleges that he was having an extramarital affair with Stewart and that he killed Stewart after she became hysterical during a heated
argument.
This dirtbag should have been offed years ago.
Read the clemency report: http://www.drc.ohio.gov/public/Dennis McGuire Death Penalty Clemency Report.pdf
RIP Joy, the real victim, not this piece of excrement.
I like that he first tried to implicate his brother in law, then he took the case to trial, denied guilt after conviction for years, a decade later a dna confirmation and then last month admits guilt in a letter? Oh and this is in the confession: McGuires
confession, in which he alleges that he was having an extramarital affair with Stewart and that he killed Stewart after she became hysterical during a heated
argument.
This dirtbag should have been offed years ago.
Read the clemency report: http://www.drc.ohio.gov/public/Dennis McGuire Death Penalty Clemency Report.pdf
RIP Joy, the real victim, not this piece of excrement.
ugh. I'm done.
CountAntonius
Member
It solves what it supposed to solve. Murderers no longer murdering people. The same way life in prison does. As for what it doesn't do "It doesn't lower murder/rape/etc. rates. It doesn't save taxpayer money. It doesn't "solve" anything in society (which, again, is what government policies are in theory supposed to be about)" Pretty sure life in prison doesn't achieve any of that either.
If there was a way to make it accident and corruption proof, make it painless, quick and more efficient when it comes to cost I would think in some circumstances it should be an option.
As it stands now? I think it's a clumsy system which is why I voted on California Proposition 34 in 2012 to make death penalty cases become life imprisonment with no parole. In my mind these are both equally barbaric, and both can be vengeance fueled actions. They are meant to be punishments and neither is very humane.
HappyBivouac
Member
Maybe I didn't explain clearly enough. Wanting him to die at all means you're a bad person. Wishing death on anyone, ever is abhorrent and barbaric.
Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
I was always curious why something like a firing squad isn't used... or like a Anton Chigur cattle gun to the head or something. Seems like getting the perfect balance of a pain killer/anast combination and then halting breathing or the heart or whatever is just so complicated for such a simple to achieve outcome.
Anyways... not that I care at all about this guy - especially considering his crime - but that sounds like a pretty clown shoes operation by the state.
Anyways... not that I care at all about this guy - especially considering his crime - but that sounds like a pretty clown shoes operation by the state.
Because it's messy?
Alligatorjandro
Banned
What shouldve been his or any other death row inmate's punishment if not death?
HappyBivouac
Member
Of course not. How moronic. That would be a system that encourages a revenge mentality.
As I said before, a good justice system exists for the betterment and safety of society as a whole, not to satisfy people's barbaric "feelings." Promoting revenge makes society worse off, not better.
Reading the details:
OK, brief pharmacology info
midazolam is a benzo, same as valium or xanax
hydromorphone is obviously an opiate
So, basically, the same death as someone who shoots up Valium and heroin and ODs.
You are given essentially the same mixture when you get procedures like colonoscopy - obviously lower doses
You get midazolam (Verced) and instead of hydromoprhone you usually get Fentanyl.He was gasping for air because benzo+opiate suppresses respiratory drive, by the time this happens, you would have passed out long ago. So, while it may have looked freaky to onlookers, I can guarantee you 99.999999% that he died completely and utterly pain free.
This is just uneducated public + lawyers trying to score some cash.
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