Aizu_Itsuko
Member
And this is how cruelty and hate spreads.
I understand the instinct, but let's be thankful most societies over the years decided to put an end to this endless circle.
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Lawyer says Ohio killer's execution botched; took over 20 minutes for man to die
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I understand the instinct, but let's be thankful most societies over the years decided to put an end to this endless circle.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Yup.
The most effective way to condemn violence is to decide as a society that we do not want to engage in it. We can remove and isolate those that do not fit our society, but to respond with more violence is not only primitive, but counterproductive.
There are more practical arguments against the death penalty as well, such as the fact that it is irreversible and not equally applied, and that the justice system makes mistakes.
adamsappel
Member
People in prison can and do murder other prisoners.
Solitary confinement? Special sections for killers?
Thing is, a lot of murders happen because of a personal conflict. It's not that common for someone to be a serial killer (those with a driving compulsion to kill). Then again, I guess that is what we are talking about here. Life in prison for those that are going to keep killing (and making sure they don't do it again). I would say there are solutions, we just aren't implementing them. I'm sure we could come up with better ways to contain these people away from other inmates that they might kill.
LaserBuddha
Member
I feel like some acts are so morbid or perhaps even evil that they have implications completely independent of whatever horrible thing the victim may have done.
That's how I feel about capital punishment. It's not so much that we need to be above the act of murder when dealing with murderers, to be comparatively more noble for some ultimate third party, because I don't believe in any kind of cosmic final judgement. There's no outside perspective on us so how we "look" or just the intellectual concept of "sinking to their level" doesn't really matter to me so much. It's not even just about the falsely convicted, who serve as enough justification alone to do away with capital punishment.
I guess the most basic reason I'm against it is that I can feel sympathy for anyone regardless of what they deserve, as long as I can imagine being in their shoes. And when I imagine being strapped down and coldly, pitilessly executed by my own species, imagining the surreal terror of counting down to that moment and then seeing that part of society so divorced in nature from any other part you'd ever encounter in life, it just disturbs and terrifies me greatly. It's like the perfect nightmare to me. I can't point to any horrible crime on the part of a recipient that relieves me of that disturbance about the process.
I get as angry as anyone else at some of the crimes people commit, probably angrier than most. But still, the revulsion I feel at the act of ending a life is too great to be overcome even by that.
Plus, I feel emotionally and logically that there is no point to a punishment if the victim isn't going to be around to "savor" it and lament their choices and feel the weight of justice upon them. It's just, *bam* they cease to exist, they never had any concept or perspective on the fact that they are now dead for what they've done. They can't reflect on it. Where's the satisfaction in that kind of revenge? What's the purpose?
That's how I feel about capital punishment. It's not so much that we need to be above the act of murder when dealing with murderers, to be comparatively more noble for some ultimate third party, because I don't believe in any kind of cosmic final judgement. There's no outside perspective on us so how we "look" or just the intellectual concept of "sinking to their level" doesn't really matter to me so much. It's not even just about the falsely convicted, who serve as enough justification alone to do away with capital punishment.
I guess the most basic reason I'm against it is that I can feel sympathy for anyone regardless of what they deserve, as long as I can imagine being in their shoes. And when I imagine being strapped down and coldly, pitilessly executed by my own species, imagining the surreal terror of counting down to that moment and then seeing that part of society so divorced in nature from any other part you'd ever encounter in life, it just disturbs and terrifies me greatly. It's like the perfect nightmare to me. I can't point to any horrible crime on the part of a recipient that relieves me of that disturbance about the process.
I get as angry as anyone else at some of the crimes people commit, probably angrier than most. But still, the revulsion I feel at the act of ending a life is too great to be overcome even by that.
Plus, I feel emotionally and logically that there is no point to a punishment if the victim isn't going to be around to "savor" it and lament their choices and feel the weight of justice upon them. It's just, *bam* they cease to exist, they never had any concept or perspective on the fact that they are now dead for what they've done. They can't reflect on it. Where's the satisfaction in that kind of revenge? What's the purpose?
iamshadowlark
Banned
Always knew we were special.
I'm against Capital Punishment, because I think the risk of killing someone innocent is too much, and economically it doesn't make sense.
But can the U.S. really be compared to these countries, when some of these places will sentence someone to death without a fair trial, or for something as little as speaking out against the government? Seems a little disingenuous to compare our capitol punishment (on a moral/civil level) to these countries. And despite me being against it, the U.S. does in fact, take a lot of steps before executing someone (hence why so much time is spent on death row, because of appeals among other rights exercised).
I guess it depends on the state too I suppose. I don't know enough about individual states carry out their capital punishment (if it varies state by state to large degrees).
dripdripsplash
Member
Do you have sources on that ?
Not anywhere near as bad as him, but still pretty bad yeah.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
I heard that they were planning this execution while listening to NPR yesterday morning. The way the reporter said it was almost like a foreboding knowledge that this was going to go wrong.
It was something like: "Officials in Ohio are preparing to execute a condemned man with a new combination of chemicals later today." <Pause>
All that was missing was "It won't end well" at the end.
It was something like: "Officials in Ohio are preparing to execute a condemned man with a new combination of chemicals later today." <Pause>
All that was missing was "It won't end well" at the end.
LowEndTorque
Member
Japan isn't a Western nation.
Nobody was comparing the US to those countries on a meta level. Just pointing out that when you look at the list of countries that still execute people, the United States is tucked cozily in between countries like China, Iran and North Korea. Also, you've heard of wrongful convictions right? And you do know that they happen a lot?
Yup lol
MisterFalcon
Member
How do wrongful executions compare to murderers who kill again on parole ?
VistraNorrez
Member
Who said anything about letting convicted killers out on parole? I think every anti-death penalty person is fairly comfortable with life imprisonment.
flyinpiranha
Member
Should have been 60 minutes. Fuck that guy.
Fuck him. Raped and murdered a pregnant newly wed means he could have suffered for eternity for all I care. Piece of sub human shit doesnt deserve pity. You lose that right from me the minute you commit such a sick and disgusting act that you make it clear you aren't a human being, you are fucking cancer.
I'd guess there's a risk that they could end up surviving with severe brain damage or something if not done right.
bitoriginal
Member
Ultimately, he deserved it. Karma is a bitch.
emiranda061288
Banned
killing people is the easy way out, prisoners should be working for life.
Everybody saying why not just use anesthesia like they do for procedures before the other injections...you know your body still tries to stay alive under anesthesia, right?
It's entirely possible, and probable, that this man wasn't conscious of what he was doing when taking those intermittent breaths.
I'm not taking a side either way on this particular case, but putting someone to sleep doesn't mean they're going to lay still no matter what other drugs are introduced into their body.
And yeah, many manufacturers are disallowing their product to be used for executions.
It's entirely possible, and probable, that this man wasn't conscious of what he was doing when taking those intermittent breaths.
I'm not taking a side either way on this particular case, but putting someone to sleep doesn't mean they're going to lay still no matter what other drugs are introduced into their body.
And yeah, many manufacturers are disallowing their product to be used for executions.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Disgusting practice and predictably disgusting thread.
Nah, there's some deep philosophy to be found in here. Truly shows how far mankind has come.
Jesus. Nobody is saying this guy was deserving of pity or sympathy. Those who are tossing out that straw man are missing the point entirely.
A state-sanctioned execution should be conducted in the most humane fashion possible, no matter what the condemned did. It doesn't matter if the guy who was executed deserved to suffer, or if he made others suffer--we should not condone this kind of result and procedure when it comes to our criminal "justice" system.
We should aspire to the higher ideals of humanity rather than give in to our base urges.
A state-sanctioned execution should be conducted in the most humane fashion possible, no matter what the condemned did. It doesn't matter if the guy who was executed deserved to suffer, or if he made others suffer--we should not condone this kind of result and procedure when it comes to our criminal "justice" system.
We should aspire to the higher ideals of humanity rather than give in to our base urges.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Maybe it'll make people who want to commit rapes and murders to think twice about doing so.
Princess Carl
Member
Is this sarcasm? Because it has been demonstrated that this type of punishment does nothing at all to deter crime. But we wouldn't want actual stats and research on crime and punishment to get in the way of a good ole fashioned bloodlust now would we.
What a disgusting thread.
After reading what he did, I'm not so angry with the botched "experiment". He essentially killed two people if you want to assume the baby would have been born healthy. I think we should just go back to a gun and bullets. I think its cheaper and quicker, but i may be wrong. I am a supporter of the death penalty. I believe some people are so bad and evil they deserve that sort of punishment.
flyinpiranha
Member
So punishment isn't a deterrent to crime, or just the death penalty isn't a deterrent? I can assure that 100% of all executed murderers have not killed again. I cannot state the same for other forms of punishment or "rehabilitation".
Agree. Not every life is precious and not every person can be "fixed" to walk the morale code.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
flyinpiranha
Member
What link? You want proof that people who are dead have not murdered people after they have been executed?
Dead people can't kill. I figured this would have been something known. I do not know how to prove it. I'm not sure if there are any research papers or data I can post about dead people not having the ability to kill people.
AstroZombie
Banned
Well that sucks but next time maybe dont kill people?
flyinpiranha
Member
This quote is apt I think:
This shows that the penalty could be a slap on the wrist or torture for 10 years and it won't make a difference in many situations.
I believe the point of a lot of people in favor of capital punishment is it prevents people from doing it again. Prison itself is a deterrent. The death penalty is part of that.
There's a tremendous flaw in that point. People that wouldn't kill again would be executed nevertheless.
It's because he's a despicable person who did a terrible thing in a civilized society. Then that society stoops to his level and becomes despicable too. When one man does a crime it's bad, when a society does it then it's shameful.
These kinds of responses several pages into a thread should be ban-worthy.
There are people willing to engage in discussions of death penalty policy here, but instead we're still going with the ":LOL maybe you shouldn't RAPE AND MURDER if don't wanna get tortured" shit.
Nobody here is arguing that this guy deserves sympathy. Broaden your minds a little bit and think about deeper issues and the concept of justice in a civilized society rather than stupidly spouting off "HE DESERVED IT, NO SYMPATHY HERE" repeatedly.
Again, NOBODY in this thread is offering sympathy for a guy who almost certainly raped and murdered this woman.jond76 said:
The thread is long because the topic of capital punishment and its application in America is worthy of a thorough discussion. Unfortunately, many of the drive-by posters in this thread are uninterested in engaging in any kind of nuanced discussion.
flyinpiranha
Member
Of course there's a flaw. There's a flaw in every way we treat a murderer.
Yet not every flaw is of the same magnitude.
Ravensmash
Member
Pfft, this thread is pretty tame.
Go check out top rated article comments (just read some on the Daily Fail).
Regardless of my own view, the fact is a lot of people don't want to feel empathy with a rapist and murderer.
flyinpiranha
Member
True. But 100% guarantee they don't do it again. Again, I'm for the death penalty. Not for everybody. Not for every 'murder'. But I do think there are some cases where that particular life isn't worth sustaining.
An unnecessary part. That's only a point if you're arguing with someone who wants to let murderers walk free instead.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
One of those "Links?" was a joke ;]
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