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[Dies Iræ]

Look, no one's saying that losing weight isn't a complicated process. But the reality is that simple solutions do work. High cardio and large amounts of fruits and vegetables and lean white meat is all that it takes for anyone to lose weight.

Also, her diet in the OP is awful.
Why would anyone on a diet even go into a building with peanut butter?

 

[Petrie]

I wonder if people like this never stop to think that weighing your food to get a high degree of precision is just a bit ridiculous. It just boggles my mind that people can think that putting your food on a scale and making meticulous calculations is a good way to lose weight and lead a healthy life.

It isnt something you do FOREVER dumbass. It is something one should do if they want to get a better idea of how much they are putting into their bodies. Most people couldnt show you a serving of cereal, or eyeball a serving a peanut butter.

Putting your food on a scale and tracking your true calories for awhile is a great way to get a better idea of just how much you're putting into your body.

Ignorant twit.

I've heard that before, and if that works, then I guess it's fine.

I'm just of the mind that you're better off identifying what kinds of foods are good for you and what kinds aren't. Then, eat the good foods until you're full and generally avoid the bad stuff.

That's the biggest part of how I managed to lose 80 pounds in around a year and get in shape. It just seems a lot more intuitive and natural than weighing things and making calculations.

It doesnt matter how GOOD the foods are for you if you're still putting too much of them into your body. Most people do not know what actual servings look like. You are an ignorant ass.

 

[Pilgor]

 

[MjFrancis]

Exactly what Petrie said, it's a useful tool for further estimation of caloric intake. The vast majority of people have no clue how much they eat. I've known big eaters to underestimate their intake by 2,000+ calories a day, and skinny bastards who have overestimated to the same tune.

Measure your food for a week or two, maybe a month at most, and then you have a much better idea of what you're putting into your body. It's not 100% accurate, but it doesn't need to be. That initial knowledge of how many calories you ingest is a small investment.

 

[I Stalk Alone]

Just use the tape measure and you will see a difference. Not losing weight but having some kind of accumulated caloric deficit is a sign that the body is having a hormonal response and actually using much of the protein to synthesise muscle. Just remember to do a lot of stretching as building muscle in a short amount of time creates weak muscles that may become easy to tear. conditioning the muscles is as important as to growing them for optimum joint health.

The scales do not lie, they just aren't good at giving you the good news that a tape measure can give you.

 

[Petrie]

Exactly what Petrie said, it's a useful tool for further estimation of caloric intake. The vast majority of people have no clue how much they eat. I've known big eaters to underestimate their intake by 2,000+ calories a day, and skinny bastards who have overestimated to the same tune.

Measure your food for a week or two, maybe a month at most, and then you have a much better idea of what you're putting into your body. It's not 100% accurate, but it doesn't need to be. That initial knowledge of how many calories you ingest is a small investment.

Exactly. People don't know what reasonable portions actually look like. Cereal is always my prime example. People pour a bowl and say they had 120 calories or whatever, when in fact their bowl is 3 servings worth.

 

[SeanR1221]

Yeah buying a food scale was the best thing I ever did. Now I know exactly what 6oz of chicken looks like.

Take my pulled pork for example. 8oz is 600 calories. I would have never been able to guesstimate that.

 

[MjFrancis]

Exactly. People don't know what reasonable portions actually look like. Cereal is always my prime example. People pour a bowl and say they had 120 calories or whatever, when in fact their bowl is 3 servings worth.

A bowl of cereal for me is 16oz of milk and half the box. That's around 1,000 calories in most instances. The serving sizes on the label are tailored towards anorexics and eight year olds.

 

[TwiztidElf]

Eating right is the most important thing. If anyone who is overweight claims to be sustained eating right (over a month+), and not losing weight, then they are most likely cheat eating on the quiet.

 

[Zoe]

A bowl of cereal for me is 16oz of milk and half the box. That's around 1,000 calories in most instances. The serving sizes on the label are tailored towards anorexics and eight year olds.

And how many calories do you eat a day?

Are you a 5'4" girl?

 

[Petrie]

A bowl of cereal for me is 16oz of milk and half the box. That's around 1,000 calories in most instances. The serving sizes on the label are tailored towards anorexics and eight year olds.

Same. Except I end up going back for more cereal after that.

And how many calories do you eat a day?

Are you a 5'4" girl?

Does this matter? I guarantee you most people can't eyeball a serving of cereal.

 

[triplestation]

I can devour a normal sized box of cereal in under 20 minutes, 15 even. They really are pretty small..

 

[Ember128]

Breaking it down to the real basics...

If you want to build muscle, you do weights or other strength building exercises.

If you want to show it off, you eat right.

I have a far lower level of protein in my diet than most people I know do, but I also eat a lot more fruit and vegetables. The body can really only process so much protein as muscle building material at once, depending a lot on the amount of muscle your have. Since your body can only process so much protein at once and dedicate it to building muscle, anything past a certain point has diminishing returns and basically just turns to fat.

Wayyy less fat and protein, more cardio, more salad and fruit if at all possible. That'll do it.

 

[Zoe]

Does this matter? I guarantee you most people can't eyeball a serving of cereal.

He's saying serving sizes are for anorexics and kids. I don't agree.

 

[Petrie]

He's saying serving sizes are for anorexics and kids. I don't agree.

He was saying the serving size cereal gives is not at all realistic towards what a person actually eats. Just like how cookies will say the serving size is on cookie, but nobody eats just one cookie.

Breaking it down to the real basics...

If you want to build muscle, you do weights or other strength building exercises.

If you want to show it off, you eat right.

I have a far lower level of protein in my diet than most people I know do, but I also eat a lot more fruit and vegetables. The body can really only process so much protein as muscle building material at once, depending a lot on the amount of muscle your have. Since your body can only process so much protein at once and dedicate it to building muscle, anything past a certain point has diminishing returns and basically just turns to fat.

Wayyy less fat and protein, more cardio, more salad and fruit if at all possible. That'll do it.

The fact that you're saying excess protein simply turns into fat shows you have no idea what you're talking about or the science behind it. Get that shit out of here.

 

[SeanR1221]

Excess protein...to fat? The fuck?

Too much sugary fruit will make you fat. Your advice is hot garbage.

 

[Skeyser]

Excess protein...to fat? The fuck?

I believe this is accurate... Anything in excess will turn into fat.

 

[Petrie]

I believe this is accurate... Anything in excess will turn into fat.

It isnt accurate. At all.

Your body not being able to use all the protein you take in for muscle building does NOT mean it will turn into fat. Ignorance at its finest.

 

[SpartanAGM]

Doing the following will lead to weight loss if you're overweight.

increase physical activity...build muscle
strict portion control
dramatically reduce intake of foods that contain added sugar/hfcs
reduce salt intake
no fries
no pastas

 

[Piecake]

Doing the following will lead to weight loss if you're overweight.

increase physical activity...build muscle
strict portion control
dramatically reduce intake of foods that contain added sugar/hfcs
reduce salt intake
no fries
no pastas

salt is fine. Well, unless you are eat it by the spoonful, then that is probably bad, though id probably term it disgusting

 

[Zoe]

He was saying the serving size cereal gives is not at all realistic towards what a person actually eats. Just like how cookies will say the serving size is on cookie, but nobody eats just one cookie.

And I disagree. A single serving box of Special K is 80 calories. I don't need to eat 10 boxes of those to feel full. I'm good with one.

 

[Ala Alba]

As someone who has lost 60 lbs since the beginning of the year, I'd say the biggest thing for me was probably water intake. 1+ gallons a day, without fail, as pure as you can get.

 

[Petrie]

And I disagree. A single serving box of Special K is 80 calories. I don't need to eat 10 boxes of those to feel full. I'm good with one.

Then you are the rare exception, not the norm.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

It isnt something you do FOREVER dumbass. It is something one should do if they want to get a better idea of how much they are putting into their bodies. Most people couldnt show you a serving of cereal, or eyeball a serving a peanut butter.

Putting your food on a scale and tracking your true calories for awhile is a great way to get a better idea of just how much you're putting into your body.

Ignorant twit.



It doesnt matter how GOOD the foods are for you if you're still putting too much of them into your body. Most people do not know what actual servings look like. You are an ignorant ass.

Wow, this one sure is full of vitriol.

The entire premise of what I said is that, unless you have a broken sense of satiety, you can consume "good foods" as much as you want until you feel full. It's very difficult to overeat (in the sense that you will gain weight by doing so) on the good foods. That's part of what makes them good foods.

Having to arbitrarily control your portions regardless of your hunger and the signals your body sends seems counter-intuitive to me. That's my point. It feels like this kind of practice goes completely against everything natural and depends on micromanagement and sheer power of will.

It might help if you dropped the nasty insults, too.

 

[GatorBait]

I've heard that before, and if that works, then I guess it's fine.

I'm just of the mind that you're better off identifying what kinds of foods are good for you and what kinds aren't. Then, eat the good foods until you're full and generally avoid the bad stuff.

That's the biggest part of how I managed to lose 80 pounds in around a year and get in shape. It just seems a lot more intuitive and natural than weighing things and making calculations.

You just do it until you become familiar with correct serving sizes, after that you can accurately eyeball the right about of food.

Exactly. Once you have some concept of serving sizes and caloric density, then you can just eyeball your servings. At that point, you understand how much is "too much" and "too little" - concepts which can be elusive depending on the caloric density of food.

The key to remember is that we are speaking to a specific situation wherein his GF has already hit what appears to be a plateau. The Occam's razor of weight loss would state her issue probably revolves around estimates of calorie consumption - an idea that seems particularly relevant considering she has a somewhat atypical diet (no meat).

Zefah, I would not have recommended weighing/measuring food in your case because your concept of portion sizes and what made you feel "full" (which is a feeling that can often be mental for some people as much as physiological) never impeded your weight loss progress. That's great for you, but it doesn't hold true for everyone. Even with eating "good" foods, it can be easy to overeat (calorically-speaking) depending on what you are eating. For example, an additional TBSP and a half of olive oil is almost 200 calories; an additional oz of almonds is nearing 200 calories, as well. Make those two "mistakes" and it is fairly significant margin of error if you are trying to consume ~1500 calories/day.

Yeah buying a food scale was the best thing I ever did. Now I know exactly what 6oz of chicken looks like.

Take my pulled pork for example. 8oz is 600 calories. I would have never been able to guesstimate that.

It's funny how off I was when I was first learned to estimate proper food weight and volume, but it went in both directions. I way underestimated how much of certain foods I was eating and overestimated others.

 

[Petrie]

Wow, this one sure is full of vitriol.

The entire premise of what I said is that, unless you have a broken sense of satiety, you can consume "good foods" as much as you want until you feel full. It's very difficult to overeat (in the sense that you will gain weight by doing so) on the good foods. That's part of what makes them good foods.

Having to arbitrarily control your portions regardless of your hunger and the signals your body sends seems counter-intuitive to me. That's my point. It feels like this kind of practice goes completely against everything natural and depends on micromanagement and sheer power of will.

It might help if you dropped the nasty insults, too.

Not being fat goes against all your bodies natural signals. We are meant to be fat, because it allows us to survive in times where there isn't an abundance of food available. The minute you try to LOSE WEIGHT you are going against what is natural, and fighting your body's natural signals.

We aren't meant to look the way we consider to be visually appealing. And we definitely aren't meant to actively TRY and lose weight.

 

[Piecake]

Not being fat goes against all your bodies natural signals. We are meant to be fat, because it allows us to survive in times where there isn't an abundance of food available. The minute you try to LOSE WEIGHT you are going against what is natural, and fighting your body's natural signals.

We aren't meant to look the way we consider to be visually appealing. And we definitely aren't meant to actively TRY and lose weight.

I dont agree with that at all. Sure, it is difficult to lose weight because the body wants to keep you fat due to the reasons mentioned, but it does that for lean/skinny people as well. Meaning if they ate good foods it would be mighty hard for them to gain weight. The body wants to keep you at the weight you are currently are at now. If you are lean, the body doesnt want to make you a fat

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Not being fat goes against all your bodies natural signals. We are meant to be fat, because it allows us to survive in times where there isn't an abundance of food available. The minute you try to LOSE WEIGHT you are going against what is natural, and fighting your body's natural signals.

We aren't meant to look the way we consider to be visually appealing. And we definitely aren't meant to actively TRY and lose weight.

I completely disagree with that. Show me one animal in a natural setting where obesity is the norm.

Like all things organic, the body attempts to achieve homeostasis at all times. Being obese is not that state. It's the messed up foods in the modern diet that cause everything to go out of whack. All of the grains, sugars, legumes and other foods that we just aren't meant to eat. They screw with our bodies, cause us to put on excess body fight, kill our immune systems, deprive us of essential nutrients and cause our health to decay.

If you eat the right foods, you will naturally feel better, be healthy, and most certainly not be fat. Our default physique is not a rotund one. The idea that achieving a healthy weight goes against our very nature is completely absurd.

 

[MjFrancis]

And how many calories do you eat a day?

Are you a 5'4" girl?

He was saying the serving size cereal gives is not at all realistic towards what a person actually eats. Just like how cookies will say the serving size is on cookie, but nobody eats just one cookie.

He's saying serving sizes are for anorexics and kids. I don't agree.

More or less what Petrie said. If your experience is different, great! I would never assume everyone else should share my eating habits nor my humor.

 

[Petrie]

I dont agree with that at all. Sure, it is difficult to lose weight because the body wants to keep you fat due to the reasons mentioned, but it does that for lean/skinny people as well. Meaning if they ate good foods it would be mighty hard for them to gain weight. The body wants to keep you at the weight you are currently are at now. If you are lean, the body doesnt want to make you a fat

I'm glad you assume obese when I say fat.

I did not say obese.

We are definitely meant to have more fat than is considered most desirable physically in our culture.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I'm glad you assume obese when I say fat.

I did not say obese.

We are definitely meant to have more fat than is considered most desirable physically in our culture.

Subjective, but I'll agree with that. I'd say with a great diet and very light exercise, most males will stabilize around 15 - 12% body fat. That's still pretty slim, though. It's that point where you mostly have a flat stomach and a hint of your abs are beginning to show. If you want to get ripped further, you really have to up the exercise and resistance training.

 

[saunderez]

I completely disagree with that. Show me one animal in a natural setting where obesity is the norm.

It doesn't happen in nature because animals have to hunt for their food. There is rarely so much food that they can eat to their hearts content so they never become obese. You take away these controls and they will become obese, see dogs and cats. I've never seen a fat wolf or a fat tiger but I've seen plenty of fat dogs and cats.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

It doesn't happen in nature because animals have to hunt for their food. There is rarely so much food that they can eat to their hearts content so they never become obese. You take away these controls and they will become obese, see dogs and cats. I've never seen a fat wolf or a fat tiger but I've seen plenty of fat dogs and cats.

That's the point, though. If you are hunting for your food, you're eating foods that you are "meant" to eat. You'll eat your food and be satisfied. If that weren't the case, you'd have animals that hunted and killed in excess and got fat.

We may not go hunting, but we can continue to eat foods that we're "meant" to eat and that don't screw up our biological system so that we consume awful things in massive amounts.

 

[FallingEdge]

Look, no one's saying that losing weight isn't a complicated process. But the reality is that simple solutions do work. High cardio and large amounts of fruits and vegetables and lean white meat is all that it takes for anyone to lose weight.

Also, her diet in the OP is awful.
Why would anyone on a diet even go into a building with peanut butter?

This post is awful. There is nothing wrong with pb. You do not and should not need large amounts of fruit. Lifting weights > cardio when it comes to weight loss.

 

[Piecake]

I'm glad you assume obese when I say fat.

I did not say obese.

We are definitely meant to have more fat than is considered most desirable physically in our culture.

Then your post was pretty pointless. The dude you quoted was obviously talking about losing a significant portion of weight and then you counter that by talking about how its really hard to get that 6 pack?

Well, hell, id agree with you now, but i find it pretty silly to point out a wrong assumption when you didnt make it clear that you were talking about something rather different than the person you quoted

 

[saunderez]

That's the point, though. If you are hunting for your food, you're eating foods that you are "meant" to eat. You'll eat your food and be satisfied. If that weren't the case, you'd have animals that hunted and killed in excess and got fat.

It wouldn't work like that though, because the predators that are overeating will eventually thin out the prey so much that they can't possibly overeat. There are controls in nature that just don't exist for us, we can eat as much as we want whenever we want with minimal effort. That situation does not exist in nature at all. Rest assured if you give an animal an infinite amount of food they will become fat. Just like how if you give a monkey an unlimited amount of alcohol they will become an alcoholic.

 

[Petrie]

Then your post was pretty pointless. The dude you quoted was obviously talking about losing a significant portion of weight and then you counter that by talking about how its really hard to get that 6 pack?

Well, hell, id agree with you now, but i find it pretty silly to point out a wrong assumption when you didnt make it clear that you were talking about something rather different than the person you quoted

No, he was talking about weiging food going against what's "natural", but trying to lose weight in and of it itself is going against what is "natural".

 

[teh_pwn]

Not being fat goes against all your bodies natural signals.

Natural signals in response to an extremely unnatural environment.

You don't even need to look at animals. Humans in the vast majority of countries, including 1st world nations that are not US/Mexico/UK/Canada have normal weight as the norm. This is also true for the United States before fast food and junk food replaced traditional food.

Natural selection encouraged overeating with very energy dense foods because they were scarce or seasonal sure. But it also selected against easy prey and the myriad of health problems caused by being overweight.

Diet trials can give rats infinite normal chow and they stay lean. But as soon as they give them infinite junk food they get rapidly obese. They'll ignore normal chow and traverse paths that electrically shock them in order to get to the junk food.

Normal signals in response to artificial stimuli.

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/10/case-for-food-reward-hypothesis-of_07.html

 

[THRILLH0]

Not being fat goes against all your bodies natural signals. We are meant to be fat, because it allows us to survive in times where there isn't an abundance of food available. The minute you try to LOSE WEIGHT you are going against what is natural, and fighting your body's natural signals.

We aren't meant to look the way we consider to be visually appealing. And we definitely aren't meant to actively TRY and lose weight.

Yeah that's why fat people die sooner and lose their breath climbing stairs while fit people can run faster, run longer and jump higher while 'surviving' on less calories.

Because we're meant to be fat.

 

[saunderez]

Yeah that's why fat people die sooner and lose their breath climbing stairs while fit people can run faster, run longer and jump higher while 'surviving' on less calories.

Because we're meant to be fat.

You can choose to believe it or not but we are. In a world where food is seasonal the survival advantage goes to those with the largest fat stores. When the food runs out completely the fat guy has the reserves to outlive the skinny guy. It's as simple as that. Just because we've manipulated the system so that food is no longer seasonal doesn't mean the way our bodies work has changed to suit the new system.

 

[teh_pwn]

You can choose to believe it or not but we are. In a world where food is seasonal the survival advantage goes to those with the largest fat stores. When the food runs out completely the fat guy has the reserves to outlive the skinny guy. Just because we've manipulated the system so that food is no longer seasonal doesn't mean the way our bodies work has changed to suit the new system.

It's not that simple. Agricultural revolution was thousands of years ago and between then and now obesity rates have been < 10% and the majority of people are healthy weight.

In the majority of 1st world countries these rates continue:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity

Japan, Korea, France, Italy, Austria, Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden, Turkey, etc etc are still thin. There is excess food for everyone. Nothing to stop them from overeating like the United States, Mexico, UK.

If the norm was childhood obesity and diabetes, then it would have been selected against heavily because a healthy teen would live long enough to reproduce. Our genes haven't changed, our environment has.

 

[Ember128]

The fact that you're saying excess protein simply turns into fat shows you have no idea what you're talking about or the science behind it. Get that shit out of here.

In the context of this situation, if someone has a high protein high fat diet with low carbs, that can very easily slow down ones metabolism as your body experiences a decrease in T3 hormones from your thyroid as a direct result.

My diet is far higher in natural carbs and natural sugars from fruits and vegetables, and the protein I get is from fish. My diet is otherwise lower in calories, and I get at least a 5 kilometre walk in a day along with a workout. I make sure to get a 30 Kilometre walk in twice a week. I otherwise sparingly have red meat or pork, or for that matter cheese.

That burned fat and built muscle. Go figure.

 

[THRILLH0]

You can choose to believe it or not but we are. In a world where food is seasonal the survival advantage goes to those with the largest fat stores. When the food runs out completely the fat guy has the reserves to outlive the skinny guy. Just because we've manipulated the system so that food is no longer seasonal doesn't mean the way our bodies work has changed to suit the new system.

This is absurd.

I'll enjoy playing with my kids whilst the guys with the largest fat reserves bunker down for the impending nuclear winter. Hope it comes along before their hearts give out.

This is horseshit man. Our bodies aren't built to carry excess weight like a fucking bear. If you want to play the survival game a fat guy would be at a distinct disadvantage against a physically fit person in the wild. That prey? I'm going to get to it first. Those apples? I'm going to climb up and get them. That water source? I'm going to walk there before I collapse with exhaustion. Absurd.

 

[saunderez]

It's not that simple. Agricultural revolution was thousands of years ago and between then and now obesity rates have been < 10% and the majority of people are healthy weight.

It is that simple. There has never been such a high availability of high carb food so cheaply. We are seeing the end result of things like the agricultural revolution playing out right now.

This is absurd.

I'll enjoy playing with my kids whilst the guys with the largest fat reserves bunker down for the impending nuclear winter. Hope it comes along before their hearts give out.

This is horseshit man. Our bodies aren't built to carry excess weight like a fucking bear. If you want to play the survival game a fat guy would be at a distinct disadvantage against a physically fit person in the wild.

FFS we aren't designed to eat highly processed high carb foods all the time. You can think its absurd but in a world that we haven't manipulated to make things as easy as possible the person with the larger fat stores survives the winter. The skinny person might cope better during the summer but there's no benefit to that when the food runs out completely and they die. You can make up all the hypotheticals you want but the way our bodies work isn't based around our current lifestyle.

 

[teh_pwn]

It is that simple. There has never been such a high availability of high carb food so cheaply. We are seeing the end result of things like the agricultural revolution playing out right now.

Well then prove it.

I'll invalidate it. By cheap you mean infinite supply? No excuse to let the carbs cause overeating. Well then why do obese subjects given an infinite supply of free bland feed that's mostly carb lose weight rapidly with no hunger? Why would the same feed with lean subjects result in maintenance? What devil's work is this...biological homeostasis from millenia of natural selection.

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/05/food-reward-dominant-factor-in-obesity.html

Americans haven't increased carb intake much in the last 100 years. Bland corn meal and baked potatoes have been replaced with french fries, chips, pop corn, pizza, etc.

Why the cognitive dissonance? You're surrounded by entire nations that contradict what you're saying is simple. Japan - lots of rice. But bland rice, sea vegetables and meat. France - lots of animal products, but not fast food. United States prior to 1960, automobiles, infinite food supply, no fast food or junk food, normal weight. I mean the very concept of weight control was rare until the 1950s. Dr Cooper wrote a book called Aerobics because the idea of running to lose weight was laughable.

 

[Ember128]

Well then prove it.

I'll invalidate it. By cheap you mean infinite supply? No excuse to let the carbs cause overeating. Well then why do obese subjects given an infinite supply of free bland feed that's mostly carb lose weight rapidly with no hunger? Why would the same feed with lean subjects result in maintenance? What devil's work is this...biological homeostasis from millenia of natural selection.

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/05/food-reward-dominant-factor-in-obesity.html

Americans haven't increased carb intake much in the last 100 years. Bland corn meal and baked potatoes have been replaced with french fries, chips, pop corn, pizza, etc.

All of the foods you just mentioned have a much higher fat content, especially pizza, with the exception of popcorn. Except it's the butter or margarine that does that instead.

 

[teh_pwn]

All of the foods you just mentioned have a much higher fat content, especially pizza, with the exception of popcorn. Except it's the butter or margarine that does that instead.

Not that simple either. Most European countries consume vast amounts more of animal fats than the United States. They eat loads of cheese, full fat dairy, butter, lard, offal.

The United States too mostly used these things BEFORE the obesity epidemic.

Maybe this will paint the full picture for you:
Steak replaced by quarter pounders
Baked chicken replaced by KFC, Tyson chicken strips
Plain nuts replaced by plantars peanuts with ranch, onion powder, garlic, and MSG
Eggs/bacon replaced by the egg mcmuffin
Full fat yogurt replaced by squeezable on the go, sweetened low fat yogurt

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Ok, people. We don't like fat. We like lean, long muscles; to get that Jesus on the cross look. So, pretty much like my body.

 

[THRILLH0]

Ok, people. We don't like fat. We like lean, long muscles; to get that Jesus on the cross look. So, pretty much like my body.

I don't think Jesus was 5'2".

 

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

oops nm