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Just Mafia |OT| Sometimes You Don't Need A Reason to Lynch Your Friends

dusk soldier (1)
acohrs 67

no lynch (1)
karkador 75
blargonaut 106 (225)

necktochicken (0)
melonrabbit 80 (215)

karkador (2)
zubz 81 (114)
isaacnukem 104
blargonaut 225

launchpadmcq (1)
cornburrito 96

blargonaut (1)
zubz 114

kitsunelaine (1)
weemadarthur 141

fat4all (0)
fat4all 183 (183)

weemadarthur (1)
kitsunelaine 184

franconp (1)
kalor 198

Day Ends:
bla_1498338000.png
 

NeckToChicken

Unconfirmed Member
What do you think about not claiming at all?

Honestly? I believe it's a place for scum and neutrals to hide. Town loses nothing from claiming town (since scum already knows), while neutrals and scum put more of a risk to themselves with every lie they tell. Even something as simple as "I am town". If they can get by without being forced to misalign (malign?) themselves they will.
 

NeckToChicken

Unconfirmed Member
bruv pls no

Desired response. Don't worry, I won't make a habit of walls of text. Surely no one here would do that all the time...

NecktoChicken took us on a long walk of hypotheticals to claim...generic town. Not sure why.

Three reasons:
1. "Show your work" I took as literally as possible.
2. I wanted to come out with something to dispel any notion that I wouldn't be participating.
3. I wanted to take a potshot at Blarg for a previous NERD gif and I am the very soul of spite.
 

rac

Banned
Honestly? I believe it's a place for scum and neutrals to hide. Town loses nothing from claiming town (since scum already knows), while neutrals and scum put more of a risk to themselves with every lie they tell. Even something as simple as "I am town". If they can get by without being forced to misalign (malign?) themselves they will.
ok no more hiding i am
 

franconp

Member
Honestly? I believe it's a place for scum and neutrals to hide. Town loses nothing from claiming town (since scum already knows), while neutrals and scum put more of a risk to themselves with every lie they tell. Even something as simple as "I am town". If they can get by without being forced to misalign (malign?) themselves they will.

Both scum and neutral can claim town as easily as a real townie. They don't put more risk on themselves doing it, they actually do don't doing it. I expect everyone to claim town. You even said it un your post.

My biggest problem with your claim is that you claimed vanilla. That way you ARE giving info to scum and making easy their PR hunt. Of course you could be lying but I still don't like the idea of claiming anything at this point.

Just to get a little more info: Neck (don't mind if I call you like that?) and Kitsune, what is your experience regarding mafia?
 

NeckToChicken

Unconfirmed Member
My biggest problem with your claim is that you claimed vanilla.

Just to get a little more info: Neck (don't mind if I call you like that?) and Kitsune, what is your experience regarding mafia?

You (and maybe others seem to be misunderstanding. Generic and vanilla were different lines of thought each time, but I probably could've used a better word to indicate this. My generic town claim is not that I am vanilla, but that I am Just Town. I will restate this on a separate line:

I claim town, neither power role nor vanilla.

Mafia experience? None, barring spectating.
 
Three reasons:
1. "Show your work" I took as literally as possible.
2. I wanted to come out with something to dispel any notion that I wouldn't be participating.
3. I wanted to take a potshot at Blarg for a previous NERD gif and I am the very soul of spite.

I like this cat.

Both scum and neutral can claim town as easily as a real townie. They don't put more risk on themselves doing it, they actually do don't doing it. I expect everyone to claim town. You even said it un your post.

^^^this^^^ to the power of infinity and beyond and all

All right then. From a current newbie to a former, let's discuss something hollow yet beneficial. What do you feel on Cewyn? Kalor?

I will have sick (d1) reads later on ERRONE.
 

Kalor

Member
You (and maybe others seem to be misunderstanding. Generic and vanilla were different lines of thought each time, but I probably could've used a better word to indicate this. My generic town claim is not that I am vanilla, but that I am Just Town. I will restate this on a separate line:

I claim town, neither power role nor vanilla.

Mafia experience? None, barring spectating.

Why do you claim town anyway? Everyone is presumed town until evidence comes up to suggest otherwise.
 
"he didn't commented about anything" is an awkward phrase in general. Not based on what I've posted, mind, but mostly on saying out loud.
You probably expect me to support all word corrections, but leave people alone who speak a second language better than you speak your first one. I know my grammar is bad in that sentence.
I'm anti-no lunch. Lunch4All.
Is this supposed to evoke fat4all? Are you thinking of him? You mentioned him straight up in your next post, what's up with that? Do you have a read on him?
NeckToChicken and Kitsunelaine, if you have any questions about the jargon in play, feel obliged to ask me what I think about the evolution of language
I really liked when you corrected Fat's flavor for spelling. After all, errors cry out for correction, but I don't need to be the corrector. Just as long as someone does it.

Now please specify the penultimate target of your wrath thus far. Get it right.

Three reasons:
1. "Show your work" I took as literally as possible.
2. I wanted to come out with something to dispel any notion that I wouldn't be participating.
3. I wanted to take a potshot at Blarg for a previous NERD gif and I am the very soul of spite.

I love you. I hope you do stay. After all, I don't want my predictions to come true if they're negative.
 
Oh, okay! I didn't know the bolding was a side effect of the highlighting, so I'll retype my vote here just to be on the safe side. :)

Vote: weemadarthur

I have 3 very important reasons for voting for you, laine.

I believe you have one reason for voting for me. OMGUS.
(This means oh my god you suck, and came from a particular mafia-playing website. I am implying that you are only reacting and not thinking.)

Your votes should be used to put pressure on people, or to try to remove them from the game because you believe they are scum. So, go back and read posts to see who is most likely to be scum. Note, that because of the 70-80% likelihood that any one player rolled town, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt on being town, which means you don't have anyone helping you learn in the background.

You have a good attitude and you're not letting the pressure get to you much. Keep it up.

@kark NO BATCOMPUTER ALLOWED OMG
 

Karkador

Banned
Maybe they aren't but we don't have anything to suggest that yet.

We do. The rules of mafia require that mafia players are in the group.

The presumption that people are 'Town until proven Mafia' (much like 'innocent until proven guilty') only works in the framework that every player could be Town (which is impossible).
 
I just thought Lunch4All was funny because of Fat4All. Possibly I was hungry. Then my husband brought me pie. It was delightful, like Blarg's made up language.

I am in paperwork hell until tonight when I will deliver those SICK READS and would not advise taking much of anything I post toooooo seriously until then because paperwork monkey is slightly insane monkey. And it's institutional paperwork so it's THE WORST.
 
I just thought Lunch4All was funny because of Fat4All. Possibly I was hungry. Then my husband brought me pie. It was delightful, like Blarg's made up language.

I am in paperwork hell until tonight when I will deliver those SICK READS and would not advise taking much of anything I post toooooo seriously until then because paperwork monkey is slightly insane monkey. And it's institutional paperwork so it's THE WORST.

Is...is that worse than government paperwork? Hugs Monkey. You have my sympathies.

How do you scumhunt? I have not played with you so I don't know much about you.

But you stole my SICK READS line and I resent you for that.
 

Kalor

Member
We do. The rules of mafia require that mafia players are in the group.

The presumption that people are 'Town until proven Mafia' (much like 'innocent until proven guilty') only works in the framework that every player could be Town (which is impossible).

Just because they are in the group doesn't require one of them to be mafia. The same goes for anyone there. Statistically it is likely at least one mafia member is there but it could have been a bad roll and given all town members.

My point about being presumed town was more about how someone doesn't need to claim to be town, at least on the first day. Personally, I just assume that people are town at the start since we're starting with a blank slate. The "Town until proven Mafia" idea only really works until people start posting more.
 

franconp

Member
You (and maybe others seem to be misunderstanding. Generic and vanilla were different lines of thought each time, but I probably could've used a better word to indicate this. My generic town claim is not that I am vanilla, but that I am Just Town. I will restate this on a separate line:

I claim town, neither power role nor vanilla.

Mafia experience? None, barring spectating.

My bad. I misunderstood "generic" as "vanilla".

We do. The rules of mafia require that mafia players are in the group.

The presumption that people are 'Town until proven Mafia' (much like 'innocent until proven guilty') only works in the framework that every player could be Town (which is impossible).

Finally something we can agree about.
 

rac

Banned
Anything else you want to bring to the table ?

Thoughts ?
just think it's interesting that only a few people made comments about it

i guess no lynch/no claim is a more interesting debate

or mb it did get enough attention and it's all in my head
 

franconp

Member
just think it's interesting that only a few people made comments about it

i guess no lynch/no claim is a more interesting debate

or mb it did get enough attention and it's all in my head

I, Fat and CornBurrito commented about it. We all agree that it seems bullshit.

Now the important question: What did he looked to achieve doing that post? What's the payoff for that claim?

That's where I'm kinda lost.
 
Is...is that worse than government paperwork? Hugs Monkey. You have my sympathies.

How do you scumhunt? I have not played with you so I don't know much about you.

But you stole my SICK READS line and I resent you for that.

It's pretty bad. For the research review board so basically it's pages of nonsense that doesn't apply to my work to get to what does. YAY.

I stole SICK READS from someone else so let's find them and resent them. We can still be pals. As for me, I am a re-reader and collater. I have already started a notes doc but it's kinda sad so far for aforementioned reasons. Goals for game include not missing obvious shit I write down and later ignore.

Okay, gotta stop fucking about.
 

acohrs

Member
leaning town on necktochicken, as this is their first game, can't imagine a noobie scum playing so confidently and steadfastly.
 

rac

Banned
I, Fat and CornBurrito commented about it. We all agree that it seems bullshit.

Now the important question: What did he looked to achieve doing that post? What's the payoff for that claim?

That's where I'm kinda lost.
if he's town so scum won't kill him, basically a vanilla

if he's scum so town won't lynch him, least offensive scummate since he can't work with others
 

Kevyt

Member
I'm really liking Kark and his reasoning for breaking down a list of scummy players. I honestly think he's a strong townie trying to start something, but his no lunch vote today seems unnecessary. We definitely have to lunch someone today.

Why do you claim town anyway? Everyone is presumed town until evidence comes up to suggest otherwise.

Are they though

We do. The rules of mafia require that mafia players are in the group.

The presumption that people are 'Town until proven Mafia' (much like 'innocent until proven guilty') only works in the framework that every player could be Town (which is impossible).

This is very true. But at the same time, not lynching anyone on any day doesn't help town, at least not according to probability? Just like cornbro had explained earlier in a previous post.
 

acohrs

Member
also glad to see somebody continuing CeeCee's tradition of role claiming on D1 with no pressure, he may be gone, but he's still here in spirit!
 
leaning town on necktochicken, as this is their first game, can't imagine a noobie scum playing so confidently and steadfastly.
Please back this up logically. The general thought is that noobie scum are much more confident than noobie town, because they have a team to reassure them and train them to mafia. So why does confidence read to you like a lone person with no backup?
also glad to see somebody continuing CeeCee's tradition of role claiming on D1 with no pressure, he may be gone, but he's still here in spirit!

I still haven't seen a role claim. Why do people keep saying there has been a role claim? I see a bunch of people claiming alignment only.

But, my prediction could still come true for Nin. He's trying to change, but you can see the struggle. Nin, are ya dead mon? How is the resistance to saying weird stuff going? Can you hold out for another 48 hours? I like your politician speak you know.
 

acohrs

Member
Please back this up logically. The general thought is that noobie scum are much more confident than noobie town, because they have a team to reassure them and train them to mafia. So why does confidence read to you like a lone person with no backup?

at this early stage, it strikes me as somebody with nothing to hide. Of the few games I've played with noobie scums, they've often tried to coast and not try to stand out.

I still haven't seen a role claim. Why do people keep saying there has been a role claim? I see a bunch of people claiming alignment only.

But, my prediction could still come true for Nin. He's trying to change, but you can see the struggle. Nin, are ya dead mon? How is the resistance to saying weird stuff going? Can you hold out for another 48 hours? I like your politician speak you know.

it's not a role claim, you're right, just deluding myself that CeeCee is here... :(
 
The Great No-Lunch Debate, Part 2:




This would be plainly true, if we were deciding who to lynch purely on a random draw (which is theoretically a valid strategy).

However, we're not doing that. Those 3-4 scum members area actively colluding to steer the vote away from them. So in practice, I'd say that To-Hit ratio is less favorable than that.

In that case, we might have a better chance of hitting scum by choosing a lynch target RANDOMLY than this song and dance.




Deaths are the timer of a mafia game, so no, not really

Ok... day 2 rolls around. We No Lynched day 1. One town member is dead from the night phase.

How are we in a different position than D1 in terms of information?
 
Because there isn't any comment on why. If you don't make an explanation we can't have a discussion about it so I have to think it's just a random vote.

If it's not just share why and we can discuss it.
I've played games before where one person on the scum team will set themselves up as a false town leader. Quickly take a prominent position in town discussions. Helping to guide the lynch towards innocent townies.

That's what if feels like you're trying to do here. Just putting you on notice.
 
I have 3 very important reasons for voting for you, laine.

I believe you have one reason for voting for me. OMGUS.
(This means oh my god you suck, and came from a particular mafia-playing website. I am implying that you are only reacting and not thinking.)

Your votes should be used to put pressure on people, or to try to remove them from the game because you believe they are scum. So, go back and read posts to see who is most likely to be scum. Note, that because of the 70-80% likelihood that any one player rolled town, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt on being town, which means you don't have anyone helping you learn in the background.

You have a good attitude and you're not letting the pressure get to you much. Keep it up.

@kark NO BATCOMPUTER ALLOWED OMG

I have one very important reason for not changing my vote towards you! A vote for you is about as good as a vote for anyone at this point. To get me to to change it, you're gonna have to convince me otherwise. :)
 
I have one very important reason for not changing my vote towards you! A vote for you is about as good as a vote for anyone at this point. To get me to to change it, you're gonna have to convince me otherwise. :)
So you've moved to random? Ok.

Those aren't good reasons, but I'm glad you are voting. Votes are important. If you think I'm scummy, voting for me is reasonable.

Then how would you categorize what you're doing?

I'd categorize him as failing to meet his own self imposed posting restriction.

I'm not seeing the fran stuff as being fake. Or even leader-y. But possibly I am just grateful to have someone who likes logic and numbers.

I'm more concerned about the people who have posted nothing-but-fluff.

I just realized I forgot rac in two passes through the list of players. Rac, how would you describe your play style please?
 
Reading and re-reading. But watched to catch up with Kark again and picked up a couple other things:

You know there is likely only 1 doctor and/or a cop (if there is any at all) when there are most likely 4 scum (maybe 3, 4 seems more likely). The odds are more in favor to hit scum than a doctor or a cop.

Thing is, we don't know what this game is. There's absolutely zero reason to assume only two town power roles. And stating it with such confidence almost seems like fishing.

not gonna quote myself, just tagging it here for easy clicks

What's empty about a no lynch vote? You think I'm making an empty gesture?

You seem to not think it's an empty gesture

So while I may have made a flippant joke (sorry about that), let's not be flippant about this.

You're 1) advocating for a blanket "let's just lynch somebody" policy today, which is not uncommon, but

2) you are trying to establish a standard where we don't really have to look at or commit to an alignment today, because "it doesn't matter" or something.

I think there is some psychological basis in saying that people who might have something to lie about are going to try to not commit to a statement where they might have to lie. Thus why you seem to be playing with this idea of nobody claiming alignment. Even if it's a minor point, it's there.

You're right - I don't think No Lynch is an empty vote; I think it's a tool like any other but I do think that at end of day in GAFia meta, it feels like a bad move. I'm also not sure about tunneling on it as a huge thing is super great, either - that controls the flow of the game a bit much, and people start commenting on that and will sometimes stop commenting on other things. Gives scum some time to coast. In another meta? I might be more of a fan of an extended no lynch. As a newbie, I thought it was a great idea. Now, less so.

But as a tool, it does produce a response.

Now, let's address the numbers. 1) is an assumption, and incorrect; if we have absolutely no reason at all to lynch anyone by the end of day 1, then I would not vote myself, I think (but I'm not sure at EoD I'd vote No Lynch for the above reasons). But I expect that by end of day we will have some reason. Will it be a good one? Maybe not. But we'll have something.

2) I don't think saying "I am town" means anything at all. Anyone can say it. Sure, there could be some psychological potential here, as you lay out, but in my limited experience, I haven't seen it. I have seen scum insist in simple and believable terms that they are town, however, so there's my experience. Your mileage may vary. For what it's worth, I very much think you are town. For now, anyway.

Re: joke - we cool.
 

franconp

Member
I've played games before where one person on the scum team will set themselves up as a false town leader. Quickly take a prominent position in town discussions. Helping to guide the lynch towards innocent townies.

That's what if feels like you're trying to do here. Just putting you on notice.

So, let me follow your logic: You think someone could be a strong player and because of that you want to lynch him. Seems legit. The problem is that I haven't pushed for any lynch neither voted.

We haven't played together before so I will give you some pointers and someone who has played with me can confirm: I usually don't vote much as I only vote on the last day of the phase giving several reasons why I made the vote. Usually don't move my vote unless I'm forced to (breaking tie mostly). Also, hate to tell you, but people most of the time don't really follow my reads at all. Also not interested in being a leader at all as I usually go after some crazy theories.

I thought fran jumping immediately on the No Lynch discussion was interesting. It's a good way to build town cred and look active.

It's all we have so far. I'm just playing Kark's game to see where it take us. Also do I need to look active? I'm the fourth top poster in the game and tried to keep the shitposting to a minimum.

Then how would you categorize what you're doing?

It's a good way to build town cred and look active.
 

franconp

Member
Thing is, we don't know what this game is. There's absolutely zero reason to assume only two town power roles. And stating it with such confidence almost seems like fishing.

I didn't meant that. Kark was worried about hitting a doctor. I was telling him that, statistically speaking, we have more chance of hitting scum that a doctor or a cop (as it is the other role that town usually is afraid of lynching). We don't know the setup, that's why I said "if there is any at all", but I don't like the idea of being afraid to make a lynch because we may hit a town PR.
 
I didn't meant that. Kark was worried about hitting a doctor. I was telling him that, statistically speaking, we have more chance of hitting scum that a doctor or a cop (as it is the other role that town usually is afraid of lynching). We don't know the setup, that's why I said "if there is any at all", but I don't like the idea of being afraid to make a lynch because we may hit a town PR.

Gotcha. Just pointing out how you were coming across. I got the probability bit, but that's still only assuming we have fewer PRs than scum and we got nothing to lead us in one way or another there just yet. But I don't want to belabor the point.

OKAY! So I don't really have SICK READS (tm wee, maybe) yet but rather SICK OBSERVATIONS:

1) Lone_Prodigy - honestly had thought he hadn’t checked in until I went back and looked. Counting his posts. Why? I find the immediate “me too” after Dusk Soldier voiced fran suspicion a little suspect in return. If I had to lean scum at this point, LP would be a candidate.
2) Hey_Monkey - certainly the monkey-est
3) isaacnukem - has started out more active and a little less cagey. Interesting, based on comments during PPM. Has also made sure to say many times he’s town. Bears watching as this is quite different from PPM. Only a second game so maybe a change of play style, but.
4) Dusk Soldier – reads into Fat4All’s flavor. Seriously seeing it as a claim or no? Unsure.
5) nin1000 – offering summary, claims he wants to play differently.
6) NeckToChicken - new. That early claim, those confident posts. Says he’s been reading past games, but I’m not sure reading closely enough to pick up on meta. Interesting newbie.
7) weemadarthur – poking and prodding all around but not offering much in return. I do like these kinds of conversation starters but have also noticed they turn out to be scum more often than I’d like.
8) kitsunelaine - new, jumped on No Lynch train, but listened to others. Maybe listened too much. Seems town, may be impressionable. The shift to voting and sticking to wee may indicate scum – but could just be newbie finding her feet with the GAFia meta. We’ll see.
9) acohrs - always scum except when he’s not. More active here than I’ve seen him recently. Just an observation.
10) LaunchpadMcQ – vague posts that trail off into not much, but this seems not outside of standard for Launch if he doesn’t have much to work with.
11) Karkador – Despite being anti-d1 lynch, feels very town.
12) rac – not much going on here yet, but it’s still early. Will be watching.
13) franconp – anti-d1 lynch. Anti votes without explanations. There’s some suspicion re: anti-d1 lynch being fakery, but from the content of franconp’s posts, I’m not seeing it. He could do this with less potential of his own to slip, and potential to slip is one reason he’s anti d1-no lynch. I lean town. He’s not just fostering discussion, he’s discussing, and more than mechanics.
14) Fat4all – lots of faux flavor. Zubz says it might be scum. Is it? Not a lot outside of that. Some fringe comments. Watching here, too.
15) melonrabbit – not much yet, despite a significant few posts. It’s still early, but would categorize much like wee – some pushing and prodding, but not a lot of original content.
16) Blargonaut – if anyone can read Blarg, I will send you a PayPal dollar. Blarg is a magnificent llama. Blarg is Blarg. Blarg is also playing this one semi-straight, with some veering.
17) Kalor –voted franconp. Not much else. A good deal of Me Tooing.
18) CornBurrito [m] - thinks this list is stoopid. :( Likes math and mechanics. Not much else yet.
19) Cewyn – observations only, really, and some mechanics talk re: the no lynch.
20) Zubz - claiming not reading the role PM is pretty sketchy. Doubt it’s a scum move but if he’s telling the truth, even he doesn’t know. It’s a big distraction so it’s a big risk. But if he hasn’t read it, it might be worth reading it for him via the flip.

Please do engage if you read something differently.
 

Fat4all

Banned
Town can't be fully responsible for protecting town power roles, those with PR's have to be defensive of both town and scum, for the benefit of town as a whole. If a doctor starts to get piled on by town, they have to put in the effort to dig their way out of being lynched, as an example.
 
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