You think the white vote will be even more slanted toward Trump than it was with Romney against Obama?
Because I find that absurd.
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NBC GOP National poll: Trump leads, Cruz eats Carson, Jeb!: ¯\_()_/¯
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You think the white vote will be even more slanted toward Trump than it was with Romney against Obama?
Because I find that absurd.
TheRagnCajun
Member
Fear leads.
Bernie can't even beat Hilary. How the hell is he going to even face - let alone beat - Trump?
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
I just want to be the first to say if Trump is actually the nomination, I can't wait to see Karl Rove's polling data and eventual live meltdown on election night
DragonSworne
Banned
Because Bernie will do better in states like Ohio, PA, and Colorado against Trump than Hillary will.
You guys keep looking at the numbers and demographic but are ignoring the people. Hillary won't handle the Trump well on live TV debates. Trump is not like other Republican candidates when it comes to debating and I don't think Hillary will look good next to him. I think Bernie does though since he always has his record to fall back on.
This notion that eventually the GOP will come to their senses and switch from Trump to someone "sensible" is predicated on what, exactly? As far as I can tell, they've gone completely off the deep end, and there isn't anyone with enough balls to pull them out besides maybe Kasich, who's got no support. Trump's campaign has (inadvertently?) exposed the party as being comprised of exactly the bigoted assholes we pretty much always knew they were - and most of their base is fed up with trying to appear like anything different than that. They wear their bigotry with pride, amping themselves up in online echo chambers, lined with fellow sociopathic dipshits. The GOP is a once great, but now leaderless party in a tailspin, and they would much rather drag us all down along with them into oblivion than admit defeat. They're done, and any hope of them being reasonable, such as electing a sensible moderate, is long gone.
EDIT: I'm talking about the GOP nationally, not locally, of course. They are absolutely dominating the scene on the state and municipal level because the Democrats can't be bothered to take local races seriously.
EDIT: I'm talking about the GOP nationally, not locally, of course. They are absolutely dominating the scene on the state and municipal level because the Democrats can't be bothered to take local races seriously.
Weird, did he say Obama had some good policies or something?
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Trading insane for maniacally evil religous "genius"
Bernie has been completely unable to win over the Democrstic Party and is being crushed by Hillary. His numbers have gone down since they debated.
If he can't beat Hillary that makes it hard to imagine him beating the GOP. If you can't survive a primary then you aren't up to the standards of winning a general election.
That really is the most shocking and damning poll result I've seen this election cycle. Could be an anomaly, but I tend to doubt that. Bush is just terrible at campaigning, and Trump has really done an excellent job with his "low energy" meme.
The general argument is that a party can elect somebody too liberal or too conservative in the general election. That's... actually working against Sanders here, as well. He's doing worse within his party, and is the leftmost Senator.
RustyNails
Member
This post is dumber than anything that found it's way out of Ben Carson's mouth.
Tbh, I do see Trump destroying Hillary in a 1v1 debate, but not Sanders. He has no dirt on Sanders except calling him a communist. With Hillary can call her a corporate shill, liar, etc play into the populist ideals and Hillary can respond by calling him a racist, sexist, etc but that's something that he's been getting the conditioning for since he announced his campaign.
Should be interesting, to say the least.
Should be interesting, to say the least.
SolarPowered
Member
I'm actually starting to think that he would whoop (not just beat) Jeb's ass. It'd be epic to see a democratic socialist (or social democrat for some people out there) winning against the biggest name in Republican politics. If only he were 20 years younger...
Hey, the debates would at least be good television. That fight would be the political equivalent of Rocky IV.
Saint Gregory
Member
So people watched Hillary getting grilled for 13 hours in front of congress and still think she can't handle Trump 1vs1?
SMDH.
SMDH.
Veritigo_X
Member
You think Bernie could beat the guy polling at 4% that the entire Republican base hates? That's a bold statement there.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
HIllary Clinton is a battle tested politician and a good debater. She's seen it all.
Trump is a performer who has no experience in politics.
How in the world can anyone come to the conclusion that Trump would 'destroy' Clinton in a debate? His rhetoric isn't even based in reality.
SolarPowered
Member
Four months ago you'd be accused of being crazy, a berniebro or a kid fresh out of their first pol sci class for suggesting that Bernie had any chance against a Bush campaign. Besides, there is still the big scary "S" word. Republicans would actually hold their nose and vote in that scenario, but even that wouldn't be enough for Jeb at this rate. The picture has changed quite a bit and it's still pretty amazing that a self described democratic socialist is more popular than a freaking Bush.
Atomic Playboy
Member
Did you watch any of the Hillary testimony at the Benghazi hearings? Because she shut shit DOWN for 11+ hours. Donald Trump stammers through softball questions asking if he actually meant to invoke Nazi policy when dealing with American Muslims. Anyone who thinks Trump would destroy Hillary in a debate is someone operating on a different plane of reality.
Everyone has a different perspective on victory when it comes to debates. I think, side-by-side, Hillary would make Trump look like a damn fool. Most right-leaning people, would probably need Trump to literally die during a debate for them to deem him a "loser" against Hillary. Same with every Democrat, though.
gutter_trash
Banned
Trump can't insult his way on incendiary statements over facts when debating Hillary.
She is stone cold unshakable, no insult is going to phase her. She is going to mop the floor with Trump at the debates and she will back it up with her extensive knowledge of Foreign Affairs and whoop Trump on every argument
She is stone cold unshakable, no insult is going to phase her. She is going to mop the floor with Trump at the debates and she will back it up with her extensive knowledge of Foreign Affairs and whoop Trump on every argument
So Hillary will make Trump stammer in a live debate? Haha maybe. The moderators and his GOP opponents have tried all that, and Trump comes mostly unscathed. Fox debate, for example.
It's actually amazing in hindsight because the Republican party helped mold this version of Hilary by their constant bullshit since Bill taking the office. They fucking forged her in the fire. Haha, assholes.
I just can't help but picture Trump having a meltdown in a debate against Hillary. So far he's been able to pick and choose his spots against a crowded field, going long stretches without having to say a word. But one on one? I'm not so sure he can keep it together. I mean at various times Fiorina, Paul and even Kasich have obviously gotten under his skin. Hillary might just give him an aneurysm.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
The Republican 'debates' are chickenshit compared to an actual, real debate.
Veritigo_X
Member
I agree with this and your other comment about wishing Bernie were 20 years younger. I think a candidate like Bernie can be a real frontrunner in 2024. I just don't think the country is ready now, but I'd love to be proven wrong. The amount of support he has now is encouraging though.
But, you are going to still be on planet Earth, right?I'm happy I'm getting off this continent before the damage can be done
gutter_trash
Banned
Pretty sure Fox wanted to murder him that night. Consensus here seems Hillary can chew Trump up and spit him out in a debate. That should be spectacular.
perfection
Hillary is better at this than the Fox debate moderators.
Seriously, when Trump makes another foreign policy whoopsie daisy like he did last debate with his 'China exploiting the TPP even though they aren't in it' rant she will make him look like a first class dipshit to any moderate.
People keep perpetrating the myth that Sanders has a worse chance than Clinton in a GE, if you think anyone in the Democratic field is going to lose to Trump and co - without a complete implosion than you are selling the country short. The only sure way for Republicans is an election with lower voter turnout than we've seen at any point in history.
Touché
Team Alucard
Banned
Most of the left acknowledged that Obama got his ass kicked by Romney in the first debate. In fact, people were in full on panic mode at that time.
gutter_trash
Banned
Sander's biggest strength is also his weakness.
Yes, he is an independent outsider that garners appeal.
But being a non card carrying member and an outsider shuts him out among the Democrat establishment.
Barack Obama was a loyal Democrat and was being groomed for a long time as a rising star since his 2004 keynote address to run in 2008
Sanders is not a Democrat and has no loyally to the party. The establishment will massively give their endorsement to Clinton.
Atomic Playboy
Member
It's so odd too, because the GOP candidates specifically called out the CNBC moderators as being mean and unfair, with "gotcha" questions (which is the stupidest term ever, by the way). But... what do they think awaits them in the general? Like, whoever wins is going to be going up against Hillary, and say what you will about her, she knows her shit. She's not going to play by the GOP rules of "please don't point out my factual errors and hyperbole." So what exactly do they hope to gain by being ultra-soft on themselves at this point? "WE DON'T WANT PRACTICE." That's what America wants in a leader; intellectual laziness and emotional fragility. And these are the same hypocrites saying Obama is a coward for not going to war with Putin. When they're engaging in deep, introspective self-analysis, do you think they ever make it past their hair?
SodiumBenzoate
Member
I really believe the only R who can win the general election is Rubio, and I think he'll be the last man standing against Trump.
Soulscribe
Member
Oh lordy Cruz is the worst of that entire crop
This fucking party man, I swear
This fucking party man, I swear
I wouldn't be surprised if Trump won the majority of Hispanics against Hillary.
He's simply too electable.
So you'll have like two bookmarks. Seriously that's not a popular position coming from Bernie supporters, in fact that's the first I have seen it as a Bernie supporter.
I don't see how you this in any way addresses my point - unless you are saying the DNC would sabotage him if he somehow makes it to a GE.
For Sanders making it to the GE is the major hurdle not the GE itself.
Even having a better margin of victory is actually pretty important, since presidential coattails will help Democratic Congressional candidates win as well.
A Hillary victory by double digits probably means more progressive policy than a Sanders victory by a few points, because that double digit victory comes with a guaranteed Senate majority and a good shot at the House.
That's your opinion on the matter,
I feel that Sanders is actually the one who would beat the likes of Trump/Cruz by a bigger margin - because he might get the youth to show up to the booths and independents do prefer him to Clinton.
j_k_redtail
Member
She doesn't have to do that. She just has to look like the adult in the room.
Debate performance is highly subjective, so Hillary's goal is to keep it boring and generate no harmful soundbytes. She's run for several political offices and that has never been a problem.
gutter_trash
Banned
Young people don't vote.
Independents hover between Dems and GOP in the center-right not the left.
Coriolanus
Banned
As 2014 showed us, voters are perfectly happy turning up to vote for republicans and then also voting for measures that go against the dudes they've just voted for. Outside of evidence that Hills would be able to attract record attendance, no reason to believe that double digits for president would turn into victories in congress. Separate events and all.
Sure can't hurt, tho.
Is about as fair to say that if bern by some miracle can snag the nom, we fully on uncharted waters and one can only expect the unexpected.
Also wb b
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
I think there was a poll that showed 76% of voters describe Clinton as liberal. Of the top reasons independents cite for Obama disapproval is "too liberal" vs "not liberal enough"
The electorate you're describing is a phantom.
It was all fun and games until Ted Cruz gained momentum. That's legitimately terrifying.
Someone page Ken Burns! People still have pagers, right?
Someone page Ken Burns! People still have pagers, right?
You do realize 18-29 is the only age demographic that Obama completely decimated McCain. If young people and independents don't turn out to vote not only will Clinton win by a smaller margin but it actually creates a far greater risk in a GE.
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