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Smash Bros Brawl Dojo Official Update Thread: Goodbye, Cherry-don
- Thread starter ant1532
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MindCollizion
Member
WastingPenguins said:
Why does he look all fat and you can distinguish where his head separates into his body, and then where his legs "dig" into his body too? =/
Here is the general tier list for Smash 64: (characters are listed in order of ranking within the tiers, so pikachu is higher-ranked than kirbysuperbank said:
Top Tier:
Pikachu
Kirby
Ness
High Tier:
Fox
Captain Falcon
Middle Tier:
Jigglypuff
Mario
Yoshi
Low Tier:
Donkey Kong
Luigi
Bottom Tier:
Samus
Link
In Melee, the current tier list is as follows:
Top Tier:
Fox
Falco
High Tier:
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Middle Tier:
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Dr. Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ganondorf
Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu
Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game & Watch
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo (because of his large size, horrible shield, and the fact that he's one of the lightest characters in the game. Basically, he's an easier-to-hit Game & Watch in terms of defense)
Edit: It should be noted that Link and Luigi are seen to be faaar superior to the rest of the low tiers, so it goes more like this...
Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if they moved Link and Luigi into middle tier in the next tier list revision.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I always choose Link.
**** tiers.
**** tiers.
Son of Godzilla
Banned
GaimeGuy said:
STOP IT. JUST STOP IT.
_Alkaline_
Member
civilstrife said:Hmmm What have we here?
OMG YOU WERE RIGHT KILL IT KILL IT KILL IT
:lol that's awesome.
That's gold Jerry, gold!
MasterMFauli
Banned
GaimeGuy said:
I dont quite get these 2.
Ness was sh'** in 64, while i always found Link to be too cheap, so i never that often chose him, when playing against friends, as it was too easy.
underfooter
Banned
I'm totally digging Delfino plaza. The water looks as good as it did in Mario Sunshine.
The only cons to Ness in smash 64 were that he was easy to KO and had an easily-interceptable 3rd jump. That, and his up and down smashes were rather situational.MasterMFauli said:
He had a TON of stuff going for him:
Great recover with a ton of invincibility frames.
Double jump cancel
Shield-breaking combos.
one of the quickest and highest-priority spikes in the game
Two projectile attacks
one of the quickest rolls in the game
powerful forward smash, up B, and grabs
and he was a juggling MONSTER.
I could find a few videos that show how good Ness was in the hands of a great player.
_Alkaline_
Member
underfooter said:
Yeah as I said on the last page the level looks fantastic, both visually and in terms of gameplay mechanics. The landingpoint thing sounds sweet.
The water does look awesome. SMS's water really does hold up even after four years.
underfooter
Banned
Alkaliine said:
I think I figured out the landing/fighting points from the screen shots.
1. The statue area.
2. The right area (fruit market from SMS)
3. The tower with obvious platforms.
4. The left area on top of and in-between the two buildings (like the Earthbound levels)
_Alkaline_
Member
underfooter said:I think I figured out the landing/fighting points from the screen shots.
1. The statue area.
2. The right area (fruit market from SMS)
3. The tower with obvious platforms.
4. The left area on top of and in-between the two buildings (like the Earthbound levels)
Is no.4 the three buildings in front of the shrine tower?
underfooter
Banned
Alkaliine said:
I was thinking the ones along the left side of the island (in the pic), but now that you mention it, that sounds like it could very well be one.
....they could also fly up to the valcano. Man, thinking of the possibilities makes me feel good. I think this is my most wanted game ever.
_Alkaline_
Member
underfooter said:
Same. Everyday I get more and more hyped up for it. Only TP and MP3 compare.
Gekkonidae
Member
Wow, that Pikachu/Pedobear side-by-side is disturbing.
MasterMFauli
Banned
ant1532 said:
"Hey, it´s friday next day...i´ll just upload the next update, Ridley and Squall Leonhart as playable characters"
scola said:I am sad kirbys hammer is back. such a disappointing non move
You don't even freaking know!
I hate that hammer sooo much. It's not strong. It doesn't have range. AND, the hit boxes for it don't make sense. Plus, it doesn't have hardly any priority.
You don't even freaking know! :lol
I'm such a fanboy of this series, and Brawl is by far my most wanted game right now... I love these little updates... but I can't wait till we get to the seriously good stuff! I'm just hoping there's enough surprises in store in the game for when its actually released
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
What the hell, I OWN with Link in Melee. Low tier my ass.
That shit is retarded.
That shit is retarded.
Gekkonidae
Member
BrandNew said:
how many times must we say it? Tiers only apply at the highest level of play.
Unless you are a regular at big tournaments, tiers don't really apply to you.
MasterMFauli
Banned
Gekkonidae said:
So what?
What, if there is a player that is at such a high level that noone can compete with him, no matter what character he uses?
Mewtu = crap
Roy/Marth = cheap
You dont need a whole list
Holy Order Sol
Member
MasterMFauli said:So what?
What, if there is a player that is at such a high level that noone can compete with him, no matter what character he uses?
Mewtu = crap
Roy/Marth = cheap
You dont need a whole list
Roy is... not exactly on par with Marth. :lol
Kabuki Waq
Member
you guys forget how broken Fox is.
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
Gekkonidae said:
That still doesn't make any sense. If you're good at the game, you play with the character you feel best at. I'm fairly good, and I play the best as Link. Wanna know something else? I'm horrible with Fox.
DownLikeBCPowder
Member
BrandNew said:
I'd say it sounds like you're not too good.
BrandNew said:
Ok. Say the best player (we'll call him Ken) plays another player that can be considered the best (let's call him Azen) in a match. Ken uses Kirby. Azen uses Marth.
Azen is using a character with better range, speed, and power. Ken is using a character with... well, HAL made sure Kirby has nothing going for him anymore.
Who do you think will win?
Tiers exist in every game where not every character is the same. One will always be better than another. It's impossible not to have that. If you have little understanding of the game mechanics, then tiers don't apply. Once you start using advanced techniques, then tiers start to apply. Once you reach tournament level play, then they matter quite a bit.
Skill -> Counters (character/stage) -> Tiers
That's how the importance goes.
or you could just stay oblivious and go with lol tires dun exits or something. You play best with Link because you don't know how to play the rest. That's believable because Link and Roy are some of the easiest characters to use for novice players.
Young Link for top tier
I've actually played against Azen a few years back in a tournament at the University of Rochester... he was good (kicked my ass, at least), but I would hardly call him the "best"... hell, he didn't even place top 3 in the tournament we were at.
Gekkonidae
Member
Thank you, Firsestorm. Well said.
Tiers are very real, but a casual player is not playing these characters at their full potential, so tiers are just not relevant to the discussion at that level of play.
Moreover, tiers are based on the "meta-game," which pretty much means: the best anyone can currently play. As the best players in the world continue to get better and perfect new techniques for the characters, the meta-game evolves, and hence the tiers have changed over time.
Tiers are very real, but a casual player is not playing these characters at their full potential, so tiers are just not relevant to the discussion at that level of play.
Moreover, tiers are based on the "meta-game," which pretty much means: the best anyone can currently play. As the best players in the world continue to get better and perfect new techniques for the characters, the meta-game evolves, and hence the tiers have changed over time.
BrandNew said:
You guys don't get it. Tiers are about the slight differences in characters that, when used in a certain way, high level play, make up the <i>chances</i> of that character winning against another.
One analogy is Chess. In chess, high level play has many memorized openings, plays, tricks, etc. And because many of these things are also memorized by your opponent, it's about using the ones that have the slight advantage over others, or using the one that you personally gain that advantage with.
Another analogy is guns in a game. Like say RE4. There were multiple types of pistols, magnums, shotguns, etc. You get to pick your choice. Some were clearly worse than others (like comparing high tier characters to low tier characters. Ex: Marth vs. Mewtwo) and others had slight differences that came down to how you used them.
So yes, a very powerful player can come and beat a higher tiered character from another player. But that just shows that player is good with his weapon, or that his opponent isn't as good. If both people are equally proficient, then tiers show who will more than likely win, although it may not always be that way because of certain combos, thinking on the fly, random luck, etc.
In the end, even though tiers exist, you still just choose your favorite character, and then improve yourself by learning as much about that character so you can still beat someone who's playing a better character. Then you improve yourself even more to beat people who are around your skill level but with better characters. And then you try and become better, etc. You can still win!
As a Mario player, I often go up against and beat Fox players, Shiek players, and many other higher tiered players. I beat them because I have more experience and more skill with them. They still start off with an advantage, and I may end up with some clenched teeth (especially against Fox) but I win. And that's all part of the system.
Edit: Firestorm explained it so much better.
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
Wow, see this is EXACTLY why I ****ing hate elitist videogamers. The both of you who said that, you're being pricks. I've beaten PLENTY of Fox players who think they're the shit...with, guess what? Link. I don't give a shit about "tiers." I excell with one character, and I'm fairly good with him. Am I ****ing...what do you call him, Azen? No, hell no I'm not. But I don't care, in my group of friends, who're all pretty good with Marth, Sheik, and Captain Falcon and Fox, I always win with Link.
Whatever, I hope to **** I don't play these people online, it's not going to be fun at all.
Azen is probably top 20 players in the US, when he plays serious.djtiesto said:
3rd place, huh?
Either there were other pros there, or Azen was using a low tier. He plays everyone well... I'd bet he was using Luigi at that tourney (he's one of the best luigi players out there)
BrandNew said:
Well, you did quote someone who said tiers only matter at highest level of play >_>;; I don't know why you replied to that with Link is your best character. I mean, Young Link is my best character.
Although that's kind of a lie =/ After about two weeks of using Sheik on and off my Sheik was already probably better but I hate admitting that. I can't use Sheik properly either ._.;
Nintendo. Boost Young Link. Please. That's of course assuming you bastards don't take him out >=(
MasterMFauli
Banned
BrandNew said:
DITO
I can already imagine how those "videogaming is serious business"-guys ruin the online-experience of the game.
Also, who the **** cares about "Azen", lol.
Dont praise other, get better yourself to prove your argument.
Hey, my Game & Watch is about pro level. He's by far my "best" character, in the sense that I probably have him mastered more than any other character, but it doesn't matter, because he's so damn easy to kill, any above-average player can make a match out of fighting me with any character.BrandNew said:
That's what tiers are about.
My most successful character is probably Falcon or Luigi, but my best character is G&W.
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