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Too Human Coverage April/13/07 (post #922+ for reactions)
- Thread starter DreamMachine
- Start date
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oo Kosma oo said:
So... If I know most of the Norse canon I've already spoiled myself for the game?
But that's really awesome. But that leads me to ask; who is the man with the glasses sitting in the 'æsir corp' chair? Loki?
How many of the characters have been connected to norse gods? the main character is baldir, I know that much... But other than that?
I wonder if Denis was inspired by Ilium/Olympos by Dan Simmons. Basically technologically advanced post-humans refashion themselves as Homer-era gods (you know, Ares, Zeus, Aphrodite, etc). They have all sorts of devices: quantum teleportation, cloaking, etc etc. It was nominated for the Hugo Award.
If you're a science fiction fan and missed these two books you should be ashamed of yourself!
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0380817926/?tag=neogaf0e-20
If you're a science fiction fan and missed these two books you should be ashamed of yourself!
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0380817926/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Brobzoid said:So... If I know most of the Norse canon I've already spoiled myself for the game?
But that's really awesome. But that leads me to ask; who is the man with the glasses sitting in the 'æsir corp' chair? Loki?
How many of the characters have been connected to norse gods? the main character is baldir, I know that much... But other than that?
Well I might be wrong on the whole precise re-enactment of the mythology. But I'm right on the concept for sure. The guy on the chair def. ain't Loki. Was Loki even Aesir (I'm not really up to date hehe)??
Here's a pic from the game, named Loki Brakes Free (or something like that)
RSTEIN said:
Mickey Zucker Reichert - fantasy books drawing fairly deep into Norse mythology. Beyond Ragnarok is probably an awesome place to start, and they would be killer to read at the same time as / just before playing Too Human. I refuse to believe that nobody from Silicon Knights has come across these books - however superficially.
I haven't read any Simmons, though I've read quite a bit about his books. About half of it says he rocks, and the other half suggests his politics are so grim and his prose so dire that the books should be pulped.
oo Kosma oo said:
awesome picture! Loki was not technically an 'Æs'... He was born a Jotun(don't know the english name for the them, sorry), but through mixing his blood with Odin he obtained magical powers and was adopted into Åsgard(the realm of the Æsir), so he is generally seen as part Æs and part 'Jotun'.
Also, I don't know if I'm reading too much into this, but the tatoo on Loki's face is way too similar to a clan tatoo from western Norway for it not to be inspired by it.
Are there any interviews or articles on the story in this game? I'm getting terribly hyped now...
Edit: I'm really digging the looks of the Norns, while it may seem trivial and obvious, I love how their age reflects their piece of the trinity. (If some of you didn't know they are the deities who weave the life-threads of everything, and cutting them once it's time for something to die. They represent the past, the present and the future, in Norse mythology These are situated above the Gods since they control fate itself)
Edit again... why the hell is matt cassamassa doing this interview? Don't they have a x360 dude at IGN?
Brobzoid said:
The Norns are pretty neatly done yeah. Who did Loki kill to end up locked up, wasn't it Baldur himself?
You can find more on the game on toohuman.net I think. Good to see more people getting excited about this game and it's story, it's my most anticipated 360 game so far.
Matt is a Silicon Knights fanboy btw
oo Kosma oo said:
Not knowing how loosely the game is based on this, I'm going to go ahead and spoiler the story about it.
Yes he did kill Baldur (fairly indirectly), but no, Loki wasn't imprisoned or even punished for killing baldir.
The point of that story was that Baldir dreamed of his demise. He told his mother, Frigg, who then asked all living things to swear to never hurt Baldir. Baldir then invents this game where the Gods throw and shot at Baldir, as he can not be harmed. Loki is being pissy about it all and disguises himself as a woman and learns from Frigg that the one thing she didn't ask to not harm Baldir was the mistletoe, as it was too young. Loki then plucks the mistletoe and gives it to Hod, Baldir's brother (who is blind), Loki helps him aim, and when Hod shoots, Baldir dies. Odin spares Loki, claiming enough blood has been spilt. Frigg then asks Baldir's other brother to ride to Hel to ask if Baldir can return to them, something Hel agrees to as long as all living things weep for Baldir. Loki again, being pissy, disguises himself as a old woman and tells Frigg that she won't grieve for Baldir. So Loki wins.
The point of that story was that Baldir dreamed of his demise. He told his mother, Frigg, who then asked all living things to swear to never hurt Baldir. Baldir then invents this game where the Gods throw and shot at Baldir, as he can not be harmed. Loki is being pissy about it all and disguises himself as a woman and learns from Frigg that the one thing she didn't ask to not harm Baldir was the mistletoe, as it was too young. Loki then plucks the mistletoe and gives it to Hod, Baldir's brother (who is blind), Loki helps him aim, and when Hod shoots, Baldir dies. Odin spares Loki, claiming enough blood has been spilt. Frigg then asks Baldir's other brother to ride to Hel to ask if Baldir can return to them, something Hel agrees to as long as all living things weep for Baldir. Loki again, being pissy, disguises himself as a old woman and tells Frigg that she won't grieve for Baldir. So Loki wins.
Matt could have asked some better questions... just being the biggest fan of their previous work doesn't make him the best qualified to interview them.
Any word on how the co-op will work? do all play as Baldir? are there any story elements in co-op at all seeing as how they try to keep the player in control during cut-scenes, which would be hard to do for multi-player...
edit: the dude in the Aesir Corp chair is Odin. Obviously (the only possible chair-man of Åsgard, really) and the head that floats around is Mímir, probably the wisest of the wise. It was to him Odin pawned his eye for knowledge (to drink from Mímir's well of knowledge really).
I can't place the last person in the floating head cut-scene... It's Tor, Baldir, Odin, mímir and...
edit: I'm gonna go ahead and claim that the fifth character is Ty, often seen as Tor's brother and the only man brave enough to feed the Fenris wolf. During Ragnarok he and the Norse version of Cerberus (Garm) die fighting each other.
Salazar said:
Yeah...but but but "Dan Simmons is brilliant" - Dean Koontz and "I am in awe of Dan Simmons" - Stephen King. Lol, taken off the back of my Ilium hardcover!
Seriously, cybernetic gods using technology in a post-human world could describe both... except Simmons uses Zeus & Apollo and Dyack uses Baldur & Thor.
Brobzoid said:
No, that's Heimdall, Gaurdian of the gods.
Odin is that big mofo sitting in the throne room.
Also, Loki was bound because of killing Baldur, I think Odin just ordered not to kill him while in Aesgard. Thor and a couple others eventually hunted him down, and bound him with the entrails of his own sons.
Reading wikipedia, another interesting tidbit, Heimdahll and Loki are destined to kill eachother at Ragnorak.
In the Mímir scene they are talking about the Jörmungandr, also known as the midgard's Serpent, which is the offspring of Loki (Fenris is as well). In the cut-scene they talk of it as a powerful weapon that can be manipulated with the precision of a gun. Maybe it's inanimate in the game, as apposed to being a monster as it is in the mythology...
Tor and Jörmungandr kill each other during Ragnarok, with Tor being slightly more the victor as he died shortly after Jörmungandr from the wounds.
yukoner said:
I first thought it might be Heimdal, but I was under the impression that Mímir addressed him as Odin. But that might be false.
Also Loki wasn't being punished for the death of Baldir. He was hunted down by Tor for something entirely different. Tor was out killing and tearing shit up, and everyone else (including Loki) was at Æge's Hall drinking and talking very highly of Tor, Loki being jealous kills Fimafeng, a servant. Everyone gets upset but Odin, who's sworn to side with Loki, calms them down. Loki then starts trash talking everyone, and when Tor comes back, he gets so angry Loki bails out. He then builds a house on the top of a hill so he can see the æsir coming from all directions and run away if needed.
They still catch him, and tie him up with his son's, Vale, intestines which turns to cold hard steel. they put a venomous snake over his head which drips poison down on his head, but his wife holds a pin in the way. Every time she needs to empty the pin a drop hits Loki and there is an earthquake. He lies like this till Ragnarok.
Can someone link to this picture of Odin?
And omg at Baldir's sword being called Fenris. That is a mighty big foreshadowing, perhaps, I think, maybe
Since Fenris kills Ty, and vice versa...
I really like the idea of Jörmungandr being a weapon though, I assume the game (or the trilogy) will end with Ragnarok, and the balance (which previously was 50/50) would be totally ****ed up if Jörmungandr was sided with the Æsir...
Edit: Or perhaps:
(pure speculation follows)
This game ends with Ragnarok and there are multiple endings, and the 'proper' ending is the one where you have Jörmungandr and win, and there is the traditional ending where both sides are equal and neutralizes each other, and maybe they would add a ending where the Jotun won (or maybe not, don't know how they'd make that work...). and then the two sequels (this is still a trilogy, right?) would be building on the story from the stance that Åsgard withstood the attack at Ragnarok...
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Can someone answer me this - Is this game essentially Diablo II on 360? I've heard some comparisons thrown around, but I haven't heard anything concrete.
So, I guess what I'm asking is (if it is known yet) - Is Too Human equal parts replay value and loot systems, fun combat mechanics and experimental (but effective) class building with a fun story pushed on top of the package? Will there be the equivalent "boss runs" for drops and random level design? Can you revisit areas at your leisure? Will there be multiple scaling difficulty levels?
If this is Too Human, I will be a happy man full on love and empty of semen.
So, I guess what I'm asking is (if it is known yet) - Is Too Human equal parts replay value and loot systems, fun combat mechanics and experimental (but effective) class building with a fun story pushed on top of the package? Will there be the equivalent "boss runs" for drops and random level design? Can you revisit areas at your leisure? Will there be multiple scaling difficulty levels?
If this is Too Human, I will be a happy man full on love and empty of semen.
in the IGN video blog, they say that the "Diablo+DMC" is like calling Eternal Darkness a RE wanna-be (more or less).
What it seemed was that they talk about the co-operative element and the character customization through classes and equipment as Diablo-esque. They didn't talk about loot systems at all. I doubt really there will be any elaborate loot system. Dyack did, however, say that co-op players will be able to get stuff single players won't since they have two class characters at once.
What it seemed was that they talk about the co-operative element and the character customization through classes and equipment as Diablo-esque. They didn't talk about loot systems at all. I doubt really there will be any elaborate loot system. Dyack did, however, say that co-op players will be able to get stuff single players won't since they have two class characters at once.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Brobzoid said:
This makes me a sad panda if true - not that I don't think the game will be good in its own right, but it seems like it may not end up being what I'm looking for.
...And my linux-pc won't be running Hellgate anytime soon. =/
Brob, you may like some of the discussions we've had going at TooHuman.net. We've been diving pretty deeply into the mythology behind the game for a little over a year now, and we're relating it directly to what is known about Too Human.
The man in the chair is definitely Heimdall. He is the CEO of Aesir Corp. No photos of ODIN have been shown yet, though his name has been referenced both in cut scenes with Mimir and in the runes on Heimdall's glasses.
Here are a few articles you may enjoy:
Norse Myths: Heimdall
Examining the Runes: Heimdall's Glasses
Norse Myths: Tyr
Norse Myths: The Valkyries
Examining the Runes: The Loading Screen
Fenrir - The Myth Behind Baldur's Sword
Yggdrasil: Tree of Cyberspace?
In addition, we've got articles retelling the myths in our featured articles section, following through one of the books by Kevin Crossley-Holland on the subject. We also have a forum dedicated to the discussion of the Norse Myths.
Finally, we have a Q&A Series with the directors of the game that started last week. We cover some of the Norse stuff with Denis in future installments.
The Norse side of things has been really fun for me, thus far.
The man in the chair is definitely Heimdall. He is the CEO of Aesir Corp. No photos of ODIN have been shown yet, though his name has been referenced both in cut scenes with Mimir and in the runes on Heimdall's glasses.
Here are a few articles you may enjoy:
Norse Myths: Heimdall
Examining the Runes: Heimdall's Glasses
Norse Myths: Tyr
Norse Myths: The Valkyries
Examining the Runes: The Loading Screen
Fenrir - The Myth Behind Baldur's Sword
Yggdrasil: Tree of Cyberspace?
In addition, we've got articles retelling the myths in our featured articles section, following through one of the books by Kevin Crossley-Holland on the subject. We also have a forum dedicated to the discussion of the Norse Myths.
Finally, we have a Q&A Series with the directors of the game that started last week. We cover some of the Norse stuff with Denis in future installments.
The Norse side of things has been really fun for me, thus far.
Thanks! Many of these seem really interesting... Now, I can't seem to find a 'video' section at your site... Is this because I suck, or because there isn't one? Do Gametrailers (or some other video site) have all the videos collected?
I'd really like to the see the one scene with Grendel and Heimdal's glasses... Do you know if the runes spoken of are written in futhark (which I would assume, since that is the runes used by the vikings. But it's really hard to write messages with it, especially for someone who only has second-hand knowledge about the language)?
well, I stand corrected. Do you mean, parts for customization? like armor-plates for Baldir's armor when you say there will be many items...? That would certainly get the Diablo feel with always changing your gear for new, and fitting stuff in different gear for alignments and such.
edit: Some of the lines in Heimdal's glasses seem to be paraphrasing quotes from Voluspå, which if you didn't know (as I'm sure you probably did), is the apocalyptic poem about how the world was created and how it will end. An interesting thing about this poem that often goes un-noticed is that it's being told by a seer to Odin. Again hammering the fact that fate stands above all, even the Gods, and everyone is at the mercy of those who can foresee it.
I'd really like to the see the one scene with Grendel and Heimdal's glasses... Do you know if the runes spoken of are written in futhark (which I would assume, since that is the runes used by the vikings. But it's really hard to write messages with it, especially for someone who only has second-hand knowledge about the language)?
Hannar said:
well, I stand corrected. Do you mean, parts for customization? like armor-plates for Baldir's armor when you say there will be many items...? That would certainly get the Diablo feel with always changing your gear for new, and fitting stuff in different gear for alignments and such.
edit: Some of the lines in Heimdal's glasses seem to be paraphrasing quotes from Voluspå, which if you didn't know (as I'm sure you probably did), is the apocalyptic poem about how the world was created and how it will end. An interesting thing about this poem that often goes un-noticed is that it's being told by a seer to Odin. Again hammering the fact that fate stands above all, even the Gods, and everyone is at the mercy of those who can foresee it.
The Bookerman
Member
Ark-AMN said:And I'm still loving this music clip too
Sounds like a mix of God of War Music and the Halo theme.
Brobzoid said:
Well, IGN has all of the videos that have been released thus far. They've been pretty much the only site with exclusive videos at this point. You aren't missing our video section, we don't have one
Brobzoid said:
Elder Futhark, I believe. Some small adaptations have been made (and some areas are still being cleaned up), but it's pretty darn close. Denis and crew are pretty big fans of this site as a good reference point, along with several other expert sources they are using.
Brobzoid said:
Yes, there are literally thousands of armor combinations in the game, along with player driven color alterations and some other customization options. Baldur's armor has been relatively uniform in early media, primarily for marketing purposes as I understand it currently, but we've seen dozens of significantly different suits of armor and combinations that will really blow minds once it's out there.
Brobzoid said:
I think that's one of the reasons we aren't hearing much about ODIN currently (I capitalize because that is how it seems to appear in all references thus far in Too Human). Can't wait to see more from him, as well as getting your commentary on more of the Norse stuff as we learn more about the game
I know this has been mentioned before, but since "Odin" has been reffered to as "ODIN" (all caps) in Too Human, I've wondered he perhaps "he" too will turn out to be some sort of artificial intelligence or something along those lines.
The Norse mythos are truly a great foundation to be used in a game and I'm so glad SK is using it so well. It will be interesting to see of course just how much the storyline does stick to the cannon myths themselves.
The Norse mythos are truly a great foundation to be used in a game and I'm so glad SK is using it so well. It will be interesting to see of course just how much the storyline does stick to the cannon myths themselves.
A couple of random thoughts about the whole thing:
That is all I can think of right now. someone read this and tell me why I'm wrong.
I think too that ODIN (being all-caps) is all-machine, or perhaps fringes on the edge of being all-machine and retaining some biological component... But I don't think he's an AI in that sense. Wasn't one of the major themes in this game (or perhaps the entire trilogy) what makes a biological sentient things 'alive' and what would an equally sentient AI have to be in order to be recognized as 'alive'?
I think ODIN will be a Vader-like in appearance that he is a machine shell of his former organic self. But where Vader had a human face I think ODIN will be much more mechanical looking as a whole. Perhaps it is allegorical to Odin giving his eye to drink from Mímir's well? Perhaps ODIN gave up his organic form in order to be given the attributes of drinking from Mímir's well? Much like Hannar said about Ty losing his arm in the making/taming of the Fenris blade, since the mythology has him losing his arm to bind the monster.
Another aspect that I don't know if anyone's touched on yet (didn't see an article about it on toohuman.net), is Hugin and Munin's role in the game. will they be present at all, as in; will their characteristics be integrated into ODIN in other manners? seeing as how Hugin and Munin flew all over the world and told Odin about it, I assume they might be programs or AIs in TH. Two birds don't really have shit on the internet when it comes to surveillance or speed... Or perhaps Hugin and Munin will be treated like Jörmungandr and Fenris, and will be made into weapons. (The image that flashed in my head just now was ODIN with two long slender jagged swords...) But where Fenris is a wolf and can be related to close-quarters combat, ravens are birds, and possibly more important; scavengers... Perhaps some sort of ranged, poisonous weapon(s)? But then again Odin is known for having a very strong spear... so perhaps ODIN will have something similar?
I'd really like to draw up some mock-ups I have in my head right now, but I don't have my tools.
It would be nice to know the importance of the Fenris blade, so we could assert the importance of other monsters/creatures. We know that the Jörmungandr is important, not only from the cut-scene with Mímir, but from the fact that SK chose to release that particular cut-scene that's nearly titled "Why Jörmungandr is so important"... I'm not saying the game revolves solely around Jörmungandr but I do think it's an integral part to the game progression (a minor mission that works only as a set-up to a larger one) and a large part of the ultimate goal of the story.
For instance, will Tor's goats have a place in the story? Tor already has his 'ultimate weapon' in Mjølnir, there is no reason for him to change weapons as it is a ranged and close-quarters weapon. The best at both, at least for Tor. Perhaps they will integrate the story from Trymskvida (where Tor has his hammer stolen by a Jotun), but this story is really silly and many speculate since it was written down in the 1200s (previously living through the memories of generations as all other Norse stories, they were all written during the 1200s), the people who wrote it tried to deface the Norse and heathenistic gods by adding elements that would make the gods appear fools. Some even speculate that this poem was written just for that purpose and never existed as part of the Norse mythology.
Either way, that is the only story about Tor losing Mjølnir, and that would be the only opportunity for Tor to wield other arms (If SK does indeed stay as true to the source material as we now presume)...
Something else I was thinking of... was the human aspect of this game. Will there be humans in it? I've seen some of the screenshots over at Toohuman.net had fallen human soldiers in them, but somewhere (I forget...) the world was described as a "post-human world in which cybernetic gods lived"...
While I'm unsure how this will work in the game, of even if it will appear at all in the game: the status quo of the Norse worshiping. The reason the vikings worshiped the gods was to give them strength, so that they could protect the humans. If the humans didn't worship the gods their strength would perish and the Jotun would enter the realm of man (and demolish Åsgard). I don't really see how they can integrate that into the game-play in any fulfilling manner. But it could be used as an angle in the story where the faith and devotion of mankind is faltering. I don't know how the human society is going to be portrayed in TH (or even at all featured), perhaps civilization is still the same as it was in the viking days (800-900), but with high-tech shit? Or perhaps it is a mirror of the world today, where only a few weirdos truly believe in the Norse mythology... I assume the former is the most likely for many reasons. But again, this is all hinging on how important the human aspect of the game/story is going to be... If the only relevance the humans have is to exist so the Valkyries have a reason to be in the game, they are probably not giving a shit about all of this. Which I expect is far more likely than SK having written a story that arches over the three realms, involving characters from each in a grandiose story (heh, that actually sounds very much like something SK would do).
The Valkyrie, as it is pictured in this game, and just it's presence at all tell me that maybe SK is really making a game about Germanic mythology. Norse is the most prominent of these, and the only one that really has survived the change into Christianity during the 1000 era. The fact that Grendel also plays a role in TH backs this up, even if only a little bit (Beowulf was set in Scandinavia I think, so that could be why Grendel is included though). The Valkyrie wasn't really seen as a winged woman in Norse, rather she was a long haired woman on a horse that could ride through the clouds and over water. When I think of winged Valkyries I think of the warrior women of central european countries at the same time as Norse existed. It is true that the Germanic mythologies had a lot in common, for instance Attila the Hun is featured in Norse as the Hero Atle in Atlekvadet.
I think ODIN will be a Vader-like in appearance that he is a machine shell of his former organic self. But where Vader had a human face I think ODIN will be much more mechanical looking as a whole. Perhaps it is allegorical to Odin giving his eye to drink from Mímir's well? Perhaps ODIN gave up his organic form in order to be given the attributes of drinking from Mímir's well? Much like Hannar said about Ty losing his arm in the making/taming of the Fenris blade, since the mythology has him losing his arm to bind the monster.
Another aspect that I don't know if anyone's touched on yet (didn't see an article about it on toohuman.net), is Hugin and Munin's role in the game. will they be present at all, as in; will their characteristics be integrated into ODIN in other manners? seeing as how Hugin and Munin flew all over the world and told Odin about it, I assume they might be programs or AIs in TH. Two birds don't really have shit on the internet when it comes to surveillance or speed... Or perhaps Hugin and Munin will be treated like Jörmungandr and Fenris, and will be made into weapons. (The image that flashed in my head just now was ODIN with two long slender jagged swords...) But where Fenris is a wolf and can be related to close-quarters combat, ravens are birds, and possibly more important; scavengers... Perhaps some sort of ranged, poisonous weapon(s)? But then again Odin is known for having a very strong spear... so perhaps ODIN will have something similar?
I'd really like to draw up some mock-ups I have in my head right now, but I don't have my tools.
It would be nice to know the importance of the Fenris blade, so we could assert the importance of other monsters/creatures. We know that the Jörmungandr is important, not only from the cut-scene with Mímir, but from the fact that SK chose to release that particular cut-scene that's nearly titled "Why Jörmungandr is so important"... I'm not saying the game revolves solely around Jörmungandr but I do think it's an integral part to the game progression (a minor mission that works only as a set-up to a larger one) and a large part of the ultimate goal of the story.
For instance, will Tor's goats have a place in the story? Tor already has his 'ultimate weapon' in Mjølnir, there is no reason for him to change weapons as it is a ranged and close-quarters weapon. The best at both, at least for Tor. Perhaps they will integrate the story from Trymskvida (where Tor has his hammer stolen by a Jotun), but this story is really silly and many speculate since it was written down in the 1200s (previously living through the memories of generations as all other Norse stories, they were all written during the 1200s), the people who wrote it tried to deface the Norse and heathenistic gods by adding elements that would make the gods appear fools. Some even speculate that this poem was written just for that purpose and never existed as part of the Norse mythology.
Either way, that is the only story about Tor losing Mjølnir, and that would be the only opportunity for Tor to wield other arms (If SK does indeed stay as true to the source material as we now presume)...
Something else I was thinking of... was the human aspect of this game. Will there be humans in it? I've seen some of the screenshots over at Toohuman.net had fallen human soldiers in them, but somewhere (I forget...) the world was described as a "post-human world in which cybernetic gods lived"...
While I'm unsure how this will work in the game, of even if it will appear at all in the game: the status quo of the Norse worshiping. The reason the vikings worshiped the gods was to give them strength, so that they could protect the humans. If the humans didn't worship the gods their strength would perish and the Jotun would enter the realm of man (and demolish Åsgard). I don't really see how they can integrate that into the game-play in any fulfilling manner. But it could be used as an angle in the story where the faith and devotion of mankind is faltering. I don't know how the human society is going to be portrayed in TH (or even at all featured), perhaps civilization is still the same as it was in the viking days (800-900), but with high-tech shit? Or perhaps it is a mirror of the world today, where only a few weirdos truly believe in the Norse mythology... I assume the former is the most likely for many reasons. But again, this is all hinging on how important the human aspect of the game/story is going to be... If the only relevance the humans have is to exist so the Valkyries have a reason to be in the game, they are probably not giving a shit about all of this. Which I expect is far more likely than SK having written a story that arches over the three realms, involving characters from each in a grandiose story (heh, that actually sounds very much like something SK would do).
The Valkyrie, as it is pictured in this game, and just it's presence at all tell me that maybe SK is really making a game about Germanic mythology. Norse is the most prominent of these, and the only one that really has survived the change into Christianity during the 1000 era. The fact that Grendel also plays a role in TH backs this up, even if only a little bit (Beowulf was set in Scandinavia I think, so that could be why Grendel is included though). The Valkyrie wasn't really seen as a winged woman in Norse, rather she was a long haired woman on a horse that could ride through the clouds and over water. When I think of winged Valkyries I think of the warrior women of central european countries at the same time as Norse existed. It is true that the Germanic mythologies had a lot in common, for instance Attila the Hun is featured in Norse as the Hero Atle in Atlekvadet.
That is all I can think of right now.
someone read this and tell me why I'm wrong.Brobzoid said:
According to teh articles I read on Toohuman.net (my main source for this info), the retaliation was for teh death of Baldur, and the incident at the Hall was sortof the catalyst that set it into motion.
I think Loki new he was done for, and for his last Hurrah, he went to the Hall and gave everyone shit, because he knew that no-one would harm him there since it was a sacred place.
http://toohuman.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=62&Itemid=2The Binding of Loki said:
Merovingian
Banned
Jesus christ people, spoiler tag that shit. I didn't study North myth, so its kinda cool to not know anything.
Brobzoid said:And omg at Baldir's sword being called Fenris. That is a mighty big foreshadowing, perhaps, I think, maybe
yes, but I think it's even more interesting.
All bindings are broken at Ragnorok.
This means Fenrir will be set loose. So in the third game, you will essentially have to fight your own weapon, or the essence of it, that you have been using for the previous 2 games. Very cool!
yukoner said:
no, Loki had an agreement with Odin. When they became brothers in blood, Odin said he would always side with Loki. so Loki thought he had a free-pass to most things and thus didn't restrain himself properly. And it would be totally uncharacteristic of Loki to know he was in deep shit and face it. As seen when he flees the hall, he knows his in deep shit and so he goes to hide, even then he knows the gods will catch him but he vows to stay free from their grasp as long as he can out smart them. The stories (Æge's party and the death of Baldir) aren't directly connected in any way. You could go as far as to say the gods forgave Loki for the death of Baldir, since it wasn't Loki's fault he couldn't be brought back from the dead, or it was... but the Æsir didn't know that. You could of course use the story of Baldir death, together with all the other stories of Loki being an asshole, as a precursor for the Æsir's general feeling towards Loki. But to say that he went in knowing he was ****ed, just to "do it one more time", is wrong.
edit: regarding the pictures of ODIN: the first shows that he has his spear. so my Hugin/Munin babble is out the window. also, his helmet seems to have elk horns in it. The elk is in Scandinavia seen as the King of the forest. He is also in a very strange state of attire. all the other gods have some sort of high-tech shit going on or at least modernized clothing, whereas ODIN seems to be sporting a cape and a pair of knickers.
If you look at the base of the statue you see a person sitting there...
another thing that is interesting is the Jörmungandr-head on Heimdal's thing (I can't for the life of me remember what that either of these things are named
)Hannar said:I think that's one of the reasons we aren't hearing much about ODIN currently (I capitalize because that is how it seems to appear in all references thus far in Too Human). Can't wait to see more from him, as well as getting your commentary on more of the Norse stuff as we learn more about the game
Hmm....strange that ODIN is always capitalized.
I wonder if perhaps Odin is a computer system, and he speaks through the statue in the throne room, Wizard of Oz style...
Brobzoid said:
Well I'm sure you know more than me, but based on the articles a TH.net, he went into hiding because he knew they were seeking revenge for Baldur's death, not because he had insulted everyone at the hall. Which also explains why Thor was one of the members of the hunting party, avenging his brothers death.
well, the original stories where short lyrical poems preformed for entertainment and remembered by young and thought by old. When they where written down they where embellished a little to be somewhat longer and to have a richer imagery. Since the same stories where told over and over (there are only like 120 or so, that I know of) everyone that heard them knew who the characters where, and what was characteristic of them. So one could probably say that all the shit Loki's pulled till the story about Æge is indeed the reason for binding him, and the actual scene from Æge's hall is just the drop that made it spill... There is no one saying how SK (or you or anyone else for that matter) should interpret the stories and the meta-state of them all and how they are connected. But from just reading the binding of Loki there is no mention of Baldir. And in the many 'final words' spoken to Loki in that story it would be easy as hell to make a flinging reference to Baldir if they wanted to.
Doodis said:
I agree. I don't think they meant to make a game around the mythology, rather build on characters and settings from the mythology. I tried to make that point, that's why we're seeing other stuff like Grendel and winged Valkyries.
edit:
Those statues of ODIN are truly puzzling. The first, is in some sort of domain since the sky is broken up by a shell-like pattern some places. But the statue itself seems to be a building of some sort. the person sitting at the foot of it, and it's sheer size further make this a plausible thing. If there is a human realm this might be a place of worship, where they interact with ODIN... I don't think the second pic is ODIN himself though. It's more fleshy looking than the huge statue, but he still seems off. Perhaps it's because the image is old or at an odd angle.
Also, I think that ODIN won't be much larger than the average sized god. Tor wasn't much bigger than the others so I see no reason for ODIN to be. And the fact that Mímir implied that ODIN often came to see him indicates that he is not at all three times the size of Heimdal. I still think ODIN is cap'ed out because of something referring to the bio-mech theme.
I tend to believe those statues of ODIN are adornments to his hall and what is effectively his "office," as we have heard Heimdall's location in the cinemas referred to as "Heimdall's office."
As for the reference to Grendel, it's actually paying tribute to Ken McCulloch, the Director of Content. His nickname is Grendel. That's the reason you will see him referenced early in the game.
As for the reference to Grendel, it's actually paying tribute to Ken McCulloch, the Director of Content. His nickname is Grendel. That's the reason you will see him referenced early in the game.
I actually theorize that the statue and area in those two shots on the last page were one in the same, but that the second shot is an updated version of the area of the first shot. It looks cooler that way and you can see some of the cityscape and the Orbital String in the background, which was not present in the first enclosed area shot.Brobzoid said:
Or maybe they are seperate locations.
EDIT: Here, I found some screens to illustrate:
This is what I think the area looked like in an early stage (pics are from pre-E306)
Now, here is what I think SK has updated it too (pics from 4/07):
I think this because if you carefully look at the two, the architecture and layout is very very similar.
CreepingDea7h
Member
Awesome! I don't think Dyack ever mentioned other difficulties like that before. Sounds like it will work just like Diablo 2. You play through at the easiest and then you can continue playing the game at a higher difficulty level with your same character. Also, it sounds like if you want to get the best drops you will have to play at the highest difficulty.
Its good that they're adding some variation to the enemy setups, should make playing through on higher difficulties much more interesting. Also some mention of destructible environments (I believe that's the first time this is mentioned?).
Screen posted for great justice:
One of my favorite as of late.
ToyMachine228
Member
I played Eternal Darkness yesterday...It really makes you appreciate how far both hardware, and Silicon Knights have come looking at Too Human.
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