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[Regulus Tera]

No summons? They wouldn't....would they?

Summons are overrated to be honest.

 

[lorddarkflare]

Summons are overrated to be honest.

This man speaks truth.

 

[lorddarkflare]

I love the art, but...

...i do not like how it all looks in game, does not liking the game for something so shallow make me a monster?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Summons are overrated to be honest.

Your face is over rated.

Spoiler

My earlier post was a joke.

 

[B.K.]

...i do not like how it all looks in game, does not liking the game for something so shallow make me a monster?

Yes.

 

[batbeg]

Summons are overrated to be honest.

Only in recent years are they.

 

[xfactor]

edit: I guess the boxart already posted

 

[Hobbun]

Only in recent years are they.

Agreed.

Summons just sucked in FF XII. However, I felt they were very good from FF X and before that.

I hope they have summons in this game. However, it won't prevent me from buying it if they don't.

 

[GoldandBlue]

1up.com has a hands-on impression.

http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3176185&p=39

As it plays out, 4 Warriors of Light bears a remarkable resemblance to the much-maligned Final Fantasy Mystic Quest for Super NES, too. Believe it or not, that's actually a good thing. The main similarities are the highly steamlined battle system and cute, kid-friendly art style. It doesn't seem to go quite as far as Mystic Quest in simplifying things, though; 4 Warriors of Light would better be described as "what Mystic Quest could have been if it hadn't been so cheaply made."

Aside from the whimsical visual style and the surprisingly retro chiptune audio style, 4 Warriors of Light features two specific standout elements. First is the job change system, which revolves around two dozen hats that the characters can collect and wear. The hats are, in essence, the same as Final Fantasy X-2's Dress Spheres (albeit they can't be changed on the fly during battle); donning one changes a character's class and opens up new skills. A white hood grants White Mage skills, while a laurel wreath turns a warrior into a Bard. As in Final Fantasy V and Tactics, characters seem able to mix and match all their learned skills as they switch jobs. Character graphics are instantly changed to reflect their current class, much as in the remake.

Secondly, the battle system is refreshing in its simplicity, yet doesn't seem to be a complete pushover. Combat in 4 Warriors of Light plays out in an extremely stripped-down form; there are no magic points to juggle, and characters can only equip a limited selection of abilities at any given time. In place of MP is a skill charge system represented by five ball icons. As players work through their turns, the balls at the top of their status window become illuminated to represent charges, and each combat action costs a certain number of charges. A simple attack costs a single point, while magic and special attacks cost more charges according to their strength and complexity. Skipping a turn adds two points to the meter.

Based on the boss battle at the end of the demo -- a Minotaur in a cave which the warriors have been sent to battle -- this turns the game's combat into a mildly strategic sort of tug-of-war. Two of the characters in the demo have access to the spell Fira, to which the Minotaur is vulnerable. But casting Fira costs two charge points, which take several turns of attacking to charge up. Spend a turn blocking, however, and you'll earn enough charges to cast the spell once, maybe twice. For the demo boss, this added a remarkable amount of strategy to a basic-looking battle system; beating him was a matter of alternating blocks and attacks, and healing when necessary.

Despite this give-and-take format, the combat system is surprisingly streamlined. It's not really possible to target attacks precisely, and neither can you target, say, a healing spell. When you cast Cure, you're not given the opportunity to select a recipient of the spell. Instead, when it comes time for your hero to cast the magic, it's directed toward the warrior who currently has the lowest HP. It's somewhat offputting to a seasoned RPG fan, but it's actually not a bad idea; few things are more annoying in a turn-based RPG to select a healing spell targeted toward a given character only to have a completely different party member injured before the spell can activate. This user-friendly magic system is the answer to that complaint.

 

[duckroll]

What, you can't select targets? Weirrrrrrd.... ^^;

 

[Fuu]

It's not really possible to target attacks precisely, and neither can you target, say, a healing spell. When you cast Cure, you're not given the opportunity to select a recipient of the spell. Instead, when it comes time for your hero to cast the magic, it's directed toward the warrior who currently has the lowest HP.

 

[B.K.]

What, you can't select targets? Weirrrrrrd.... ^^;

They're saving that feature for Four Warriors of Light International.

 

[jj984jj]

Really weird...

 

[duckroll]

I just read that there's a play report and interview with the staff in one of this month's Dengeki magazines. Apparently they also mention that there's 15 item limit. This game is starting to sound.... odd. :/

Oh and 2ch has started linking to awesome photos of 4WoL's section at S-E's booth. It's either empty, or there are 2-4 people playing at most. I know it's just the first press day, but the Japanese vibe for this game isn't hot at all.

 

[Hobbun]

Not sure I am liking at all on these recent limitations being mentioned. The 15 item limit and especially that you can't target spells.

My enthusiasm for this game has gone down a great deal.

 

[BlueWord]

Sounds weird, but I'll need to try it out before I condemn it. The game still has me hyped, based on the team working on it alone.

 

[lorddarkflare]

This is odd, but it has potential, it is a good way of streamlining the combat while leaving control in the hands of the player.

I wonder if it can be disabled.

 

[Hobbun]

This is odd, but it has potential, it is a good way of streamlining the combat while leaving control in the hands of the player.

I wonder if it can be disabled.

But at least for me, I feel there is no reason necessary to streamline combat so much that it takes away control in where you can't target your spells. But then I've always been a control freak for my parties, which is why I prefer turn-based far more than anything else.

But that is a good point, maybe it can be disabled.

 

[duckroll]

I doubt something like that is a feature with an on/off switch. When you design a game, you design and balance the game around a system, not the other way round. I don't like the sound of all this streamlining, but it does seem to be something S-E likes to explore lately. Just like how FFXIII has no full party control.

 

[CTLance]

No real targeting? Whu?

...and only 15 items?

Dunno. I loved (yes, loved) FF:MQ, but this somehow sounds like.... dunno. Like not fun.

Especially if you can't take out a healer monster in an enemy party. Or heal the character that would die from an attack because of lower stats and worse armor, even if he has more HP than the fully-buffed-and-fortified paladin in front that wouldn't even be scratched by the same attack.

Depends on the implementation, I guess, but for now: Hype-o-Meter dialed back.

 

[Hobbun]

I doubt something like that is a feature with an on/off switch. When you design a game, you design and balance the game around a system, not the other way round. I don't like the sound of all this streamlining, but it does seem to be something S-E likes to explore lately. Just like how FFXIII has no full party control.

I agree. Like they are trying to appeal more to the casual gamer in making the game easier and faster. Not something I am liking, either. Main reason why I am not liking what I hear about FF XIII is not having the full party control.

 

[Grampasso]

Seems a bit off to me, I guess it's the way they are positioned. It's still a nice boxart.

It's like they're posing to take the shot =)

 

[duckroll]

I agree. Like they are trying to appeal more to the casual gamer in making the game easier and faster. Not something I am liking, either. Main reason why I am not liking what I hear about FF XIII in having the no full party control.

I don't think it's entirely because they're trying to appeal to "casual gamers" or anything like that. It could simply be the direction they have decided to explore in terms of further developing interesting or unique gameplay systems. As game developers they also face constant challenges to keep gameplay fresh, while keeping it fun or challenging. One way is to streamline systems and controls which players have become too familiar with exploiting, to force players to focus their attention on other parts of the system. The other way of course is to make gameplay even more complicated and more strategic/tactical on a depth level. Considering the declining interest in games which are too hard or too complex, it's not surprising that they would not want to go down that route.

 

[lorddarkflare]

I don't think it's entirely because they're trying to appeal to "casual gamers" or anything like that. It could simply be the direction they have decided to explore in terms of further developing interesting or unique gameplay systems. As game developers they also face constant challenges to keep gameplay fresh, while keeping it fun or challenging. One way is to streamline systems and controls which players have become too familiar with exploiting, to force players to focus their attention on other parts of the system. The other way of course is to make gameplay even more complicated and more strategic/tactical on a depth level. Considering the declining interest in games which are too hard or too complex, it's not surprising that they would not want to go down that route.

Yeah very true.

As for the option to disable, i think that this might be the case because the "streamlining", may be much more extensive than we think.

 

[darkhunger]

I agree. Like they are trying to appeal more to the casual gamer in making the game easier and faster. Not something I am liking, either. Main reason why I am not liking what I hear about FF XIII is not having the full party control.

Making things less annoying and streamlining things isn't necessarily only for casual gamers... DQ has been doing similar things for a while now (though in DQ you do get to pick a group of enemies to "randomly" attack rather than having no choice at all). If it makes gameplay fast and fun I don't see what's wrong with it.

Plus limitations like this can add challenge to a game. And if implemented correctly they can address the points you brought up too.

 

[Hobbun]

I don't think it's entirely because they're trying to appeal to "casual gamers" or anything like that. It could simply be the direction they have decided to explore in terms of further developing interesting or unique gameplay systems. As game developers they also face constant challenges to keep gameplay fresh, while keeping it fun or challenging. One way is to streamline systems and controls which players have become too familiar with exploiting, to force players to focus their attention on other parts of the system. The other way of course is to make gameplay even more complicated and more strategic/tactical on a depth level. Considering the declining interest in games which are too hard or too complex, it's not surprising that they would not want to go down that route.

And that’s what I was getting at with my casual game reference. I know casual gamers are thrown out willy nilly by a lot of people, but my definition on it is someone who likes to play games, but they don’t have the time, patience and also usually want games easier, as again, they can get them more quickly. Which goes in hand with your comment on people wanting less complicated and difficult games.

Either way, it’s possible FFG may end up being another game I won’t have (want) to spend money on due to the changes developers feel are “needed” in the industry.

 

[Tiktaalik]

JParish's preview made it sound really interesting to me, but no target control on the other hand is really bizarre. I like some of the ideas that they're presenting here, but I hope they don't go too far.

 

[lorddarkflare]

And that’s what I was getting at with my casual game reference. I know casual gamers are thrown out willy nilly by a lot of people, but my definition on it is someone who likes to play games, but they don’t have the time, patience and also usually want games easier, as again, they can get them more quickly. Which goes in hand with your comment on people wanting less complicated and difficult games.

Either way, it’s possible FFG may end up being another game I won’t have (want) to spend money on due to the changes developers feel are “needed” in the industry.

Wow, this seems to happen to you quite often of late.

Is there any RPG that you are now looking forward to?

 

[Hobbun]

Wow, this seems to happen to you quite often of late.

Yeah I know, tell me about it.

Is there any RPG that you are now looking forward to?

Yes, there are at least a couple. Arc Rise Fantasia in January. And Dragon Quest VI. I know there is no release date right now, but it has already been confirmed for NA.

And Mario & Luigi: Bowswer’s Inside Story was just released, which I was looking forward to for a long time and I have not yet played it.

Oh, Strange Journey as well. Although I know it will make it over here, I was only picking games that have been confirmed for NA.

 

[jaxword]

Sounds like they're REALLY getting into the spirit of returning to the old style of games, as the strange engines and limitations sound like the NES games.

 

[slaughterking]

It does sound weird, but not bad at all. I think you really have to try it yourself and get a feel for it and see what depth and challenge is left in the gameplay. Parish apparently thought it was a rather nice decision to approach the battle system this way and he already played it after all. I'm still pretty upbeat!

 

[Mejilan]

Depending on how it's implemented, it could be great.
Sting's Riviera played games with targeting and whatnot, and though I realize it WAS offputting, I thought it made for a unique and engaging combat system.

 

[Princess Skittles]

Summons are overrated to be honest.

This. SO MUCH THIS.

 

[Yaweee]

I don't mind the lack of targeting if there's some consistent mechanic behind it (like Ogre Battle or Riviera), but that item limit? Fuck that. If there's one thing I hate in RPGs, it is spending an obscene amount of time managing inventory. Okay, that, unskippable cutscenes, and slow battle animations.

I get that developers want to restrict how much you can bring into dungeons or use in battle, but there ways to get the same effect without bogging down the entire game.

 

[Regulus Tera]

No targeting is still better than slashing midair if there's no monster there.

 

[duckroll]

No targeting is still better than slashing midair if there's no monster there.

That's back in FFXIII!

 

[ToastyFrog]

JParish's preview made it sound really interesting to me, but no target control on the other hand is really bizarre. I like some of the ideas that they're presenting here, but I hope they don't go too far.

You do have some control over targeting attacks. It seems to be party-facing spells that don't allow you to choose the recipient. Buffs seem to affect all (but my only buff was from a Bard, so that's always the case), and Cure hits whoever has lowest HP (not the one who's missing the most from their HP max, but simply the lowest HP). Bear in mind that my observations derive from a loud, manic environment where a fussy woman was hovering constantly over my shoulder to rush me through the demo rather than giving me time to explore the game mechanics, so it's possible I've missed something.

Anyway, I'm very positive on the game. It's a little odd, but I like when Square does experimental things.

 

[slaughterking]

I don't mind the lack of targeting if there's some consistent mechanic behind it (like Ogre Battle or Riviera), but that item limit? Fuck that. If there's one thing I hate in RPGs, it is spending an obscene amount of time managing inventory. Okay, that, unskippable cutscenes, and slow battle animations.

I get that developers want to restrict how much you can bring into dungeons or use in battle, but there ways to get the same effect without bogging down the entire game.

Well, this also comes down to how well the items are balanced. I would rather decide to have 15 useful items, which I have to use strategically, instead of flooding my inventory with 99 Hi-Potions, Phoenix Downs and whatnot.

 

[Regulus Tera]

That's back in FFXIII!

More evidence this is next-gener than FFXIII!

 

[charlequin]

I don't think it's entirely because they're trying to appeal to "casual gamers" or anything like that. It could simply be the direction they have decided to explore in terms of further developing interesting or unique gameplay systems. As game developers they also face constant challenges to keep gameplay fresh, while keeping it fun or challenging. One way is to streamline systems and controls which players have become too familiar with exploiting, to force players to focus their attention on other parts of the system. The other way of course is to make gameplay even more complicated and more strategic/tactical on a depth level. Considering the declining interest in games which are too hard or too complex, it's not surprising that they would not want to go down that route.

Yeah.

I'm not actually too concerned about this, necessarily. Where is manual targeting actually necessary that this system would remove? Mostly to kill one specific monster in a party first. You'd also manually target in order to hit a monster's weakness, or to hit the monster you've already been hitting, or to heal the weakest person in your party, but it sounds like this game takes care of those things for you automatically.

The item limit is a little more offputting to me at first, although in FF games, historically items fall into three categories: healing items (make easy games even easier), random crap (mix items and whatnot), and equipment (which we still have.) If this reduces emphasis on elements that have almost never been handled well in FFs, like item balance and status effects, I'm not sure it'll be a problem either.

You do have some control over targeting attacks. It seems to be party-facing spells that don't allow you to choose the recipient.

Even better, then! I prefer "heal the worst-off person automatically" over "pick myself, and screw up sometimes."

Thanks for the impressions, btw.

Well, this also comes down to how well the items are balanced. I would rather decide to have 15 useful items, which I have to use strategically, instead of flooding my inventory with 99 Hi-Potions, Phoenix Downs and whatnot.

Yeah. When I first started playing DQ games, I was like "what, only a tiny inventory?!?" but it turns out that way you can actually make items useful and interesting in the game instead of just having a bajillion items you never use like in pretty much every FF game. I want to know what kind of items there are now before I get too worried.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I'm a Resident Evil fan, so the item limit doesn't bother me, but no targeting? What the hell. I don't understand what Square is thinking with all these changes. No monster targeting is an annoyance I can deal with, but at least let us heal who we want.

Whatever, like FF13 without the full party control, this is not a deal breaker for me. I just hope it's done right and doesn't become a major inconvenience.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

hype++

Thanks for the impressions Jeremy, this sounds like it's right up my alley.

 

[Yaweee]

That logic for heal spells doesn't work in practice. It's the same as Ogre Battle used, and that's the one area where the AI failed miserably.

Say you have two party members:

Priest 181/183 HP
Knight 200/350 HP

Who gets the heal? Not the person that actually needs it.

 

[duckroll]

That logic for heal spells doesn't work in practice. It's the same as Ogre Battle used, and that's the one area where the AI failed miserably.

Say you have two party members:

Priest 181/183 HP
Knight 200/350 HP

Who gets the heal? Not the person that actually needs it.

What makes you think it's not calculated by % of HP left?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

That's back in FFXIII!

No. :lol

 

[Yaweee]

What makes you think it's not calculated by % of HP left?

You do have some control over targeting attacks. It seems to be party-facing spells that don't allow you to choose the recipient. Buffs seem to affect all (but my only buff was from a Bard, so that's always the case), and Cure hits whoever has lowest HP (not the one who's missing the most from their HP max, but simply the lowest HP). Bear in mind that my observations derive from a loud, manic environment where a fussy woman was hovering constantly over my shoulder to rush me through the demo rather than giving me time to explore the game mechanics, so it's possible I've missed something.

Anyway, by % is better, but still not all that good. The priority between topping characters off and getting the most bang per MP (or here, charge) depends on how much damage the enemies are doing.

Healing strategy is one of the basic outlets for actual thought and strategy in RPG battle systems, and having to weigh it against the Charge system sounds like it would be pretty interesting without further restrictions like auto-target.

 

[Llyranor]

So, no direct party targeting? Not necessarily a bad or a good thing - will depend on how it's implemented. Worked well enough for Riviera and Last Remnant, for the most part.

Charging to use abilities is definitely a positive for me, should be an interesting approach to combat rather than just standard MP.

I don't see 15-item limit as a bad thing. As it is, I just ignore 95% of items in FF's anyway, just using potions and phoenix downs or whatever. A lower number of items - properly implemented - can make resource management all the more important, while also making each item all the more important as well. It works really in Riviera, where sometimes deciding between which important items you decide to keep and which one you can afford to throw away can be a tough choice.

 

[grandjedi6]

Cure hits whoever has lowest HP (not the one who's missing the most from their HP max, but simply the lowest HP).

That is so stupid

 

[Link Man]

I'm just guessing here, but most likely, potions will be able to be targeted.

 

[CTLance]

We need more info on the actual implementation. It could be a miserable pile of failure and frustration, or it could be a god-send that removes a huge hassle we didn't even know was there. We simply have no way of guessing how this will turn out.

Will the game anticipate the likely next attack and heal accordingly? How will the monsters pick their targets? Will there still be an element of randomness?

It's gonna be a bitch to balance correctly. Let's see how they will fare. While I'm not really happy about these issues I'll try to keep an open mind about it. After all, my previous pessimism was unfounded. Maybe I'll be wrong again. I'd prefer that, actually.