andythinkpad
Member
Look like I will be ironically voting for Donald Trump in general and see the world burn.
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Microsoft posts election forecast
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NoblesseOblige
Banned
So trump over Hillary is your logical conclusion when trying to end 'establishment politics'? The man who literally claimed to be the establishment with his hands in official's pockets.
Leona Lewis
Banned
I understand your sense of disappointment if Hillary is nominated and the status quo remains.
What I don't understand is why you think Trump will upend that status quo.
Sure, he doesn't need Super PACs or private donors to fund his campaign, but nothing he's proposed suggests his politics are any different from establishment figures like Rubio and Bush.
Just because he's not a politician doesn't mean he's not establishment. He was himself one of those big private donors before he started running, remember?
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
As a brown person with a Muslim name, fuck you. This kind of stupid makes me nervous that he could actually win.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
The guy knows how it works. He has bought politicians and used it for personal gain.
He also says and demonstrates how he is rich enough he doesn't care to be a poster-boy for establishment. The guy has the GOP by the balls.
You can tell this by the manner in which media (who have major monetary interest in politics) attack him constantly. He is playing them like a fiddle to expose how the establishment machine operates.
He outlines a lot of this in his book "The Art of the Deal".
Leona Lewis
Banned
Again, how does any of this manifest in his policies, though?
It seems you're more enchanted by his cult of personality than by the reality of his actual proposals.
Trumps politics are significantly different from the republican establishment. Why do you think they've been trying so hard to prop up one of their candidates?
I'm not even American and I know that this is all wrong
NoblesseOblige
Banned
None of that answered the question. A vote for trump is not anti-establishment. A vote for trump is just cutting out the middleman from your imagined establishment who acts as an intermediary between corporate backers and the public. You're basically just bending over and saying "here Mr. Trump, have at it" rather than enacting a possible barrier between him and your hind quarters.
You're not anti-establishment. You're just being contrarian.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
He doesn't have any outlined policies strictly combatting establishment politics. This is one of the reasons why Bernie would get my vote first. Bernie actually has a plan.
Trump is the only other candidate who is likely to develop a plan to change establishment politics. The others on both sides have no chance at changing anything in regards to weakening establishment politics.
EDIT: Looks like my fear came true. I'm bowing out of this thread as I really don't want another 5+ page derail due to the dogpile.
Enjoy the fun leading up to Primaries! Truly is shaping up to be an exciting year.
……forgetit
Member
O'Malley cleaning up in Iowa. Finally above 1%
I see this a lot and it's an incredibly lazy and damaging opinion. You want politics to change but have no concern over what it changes into. You basically just admitted that Trumps appeal is that he has no idea what he's doing or how politics work and you like that.
I see this a lot and it's an incredibly lazy and damaging opinion. You want politics to change but have no concern over what it changes into. You basically just admitted that Trumps appeal is that he has no idea what he's doing or how politics work and you like that.
boiled goose
good with gravy
The reason is that he has at least said he will not be influenced.
He has also at least acknowledged the issues. That the system is broken.
I have no idea that he has plans to do anything but he acknowledges tbe problem while others do not to the same extent.
While I disagree, i understand why people would lean Trump over Hillary even if they are generally liberal. It comes down to trust. Trump has said, yeah i bribed Hillary. Hillary meanwhile takes hundred thousand dollar payments to her personal wealth from Wall Street.
Like it or not, Trump is running a populist campaign. If the product is not appealing, dont blame the consumer. Make a better product.
Hillary is better than trump on 90 percent of the issues, but the biggest issue for many Americans including myself is it issue of money in politics.
I think you're missing that this makes him the establishment. He isn't going to change anything, because he was one of the ones that put the current system in place.
soundscream
Member
They are trying to prop up another candidate, because they fear the independent vote will just downvote for democrats because they don't buy the crazy he is selling. With a more moderate canidate they have a better chance of winning in congress.
outunderthestars
Banned
As someone who doesn't care for either of the Democratic candidates, I am damn well voting democrat in the general election. Establishment or not, there is too much at stake to let someone like Trump lead our military, appoint the head of the FCC, EPA, Department of the Interior, etc, and not the mention the absurdly terrible person he could appoint to the Supreme Court.
Want to shake up "establishment politics"? Change your Congressperson and Senator. The Presidency is a not position to elect an extremist just because you feel the urge to shake things up.
The biggest challenge to "establishment politics" would be nominating a Supreme Court justice or two who would, ultimately at some point in the future, lean the court into overturning the Citizens United decision and helping to flush corporate and super PAC money out of campaign financing. Clinton and Sanders would do that; would Trump?
I'm not sure how Trump's "I know how politicians work because I bought them" argument at all works toward reforming the system. The system is broken precisely because people like Trump, and Trump himself, enabled it to be that way.
If you want to change things up, the most effective way to do is to campaign and vote for different House and Senate candidates. Those are the politicians being bought up; those are the ones that lobbyists and business people, like Trump, lean on for votes in their interest.
EDIT: And of course, there's the typical "welp I'm bowing out of this thread now so I don't have to critically engage with any of this" cop out. Lame.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Yup. It's like saying "I don't like lobbyists influencing politicians, so I'll vote for for the lobbyists.
And why is Trump keeping all these plans secret? Is it because he's a howling Carny barker? You have no clue what you're talking about and would choose a racist stated fascist and proven liar if the socialist doesn't get the nom? Just stay home.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
If you're going to bow out then at least do it by admitting you're wrong rather than admitting you can't reasonably defend your position.
boiled goose
good with gravy
I Think it's more people are so frustrated that they would rather throw a wrench in the system than keep the status quo.
Dont corner a rat.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Why admit my opinion is wrong when it simply isn't true?
I would argue it is literally impossible to have a wrong opinion as that would invalidate what an opinion truly is.
If people here are truly having this much difficulty with my opinions regarding this round of POTUS elections then reference this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1173921
(you were even in on the dogpile, so I'm sure you know my reasoning)
The multi page dogpile lays things out pretty well.
Not going to get this thread derailed saying the same things.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
there's almost nothing else that says you have absolutely fuck-all knowledge of the candidates or what they say/represent than saying your first choice is sanders but your second is trump over clinton
literally ignoring every single word they have spoken, every promise they've made, their political histories, their finances, everything
it's a fun buzz word that allows people like trump, with no political or law background, to say any stupid or bigoted thing they want. all he has to do is play up the anti-establishment angle because he simply speaks his mind with no filter, and his poll numbers rise. doesn't matter if he wants the rich to pay less taxes for instance (aka very very establishment) because he simply states that he isn't, over and over again. unlike another certain candidate that lies a metric galaxy closer to what could be considered "anti-establishment" in today's political climate, and has almost every angle of his being steered in that direction. a comparison of the two in almost any way, including being "anti-establishment," is ridiculous
topic: this is almost exactly what i imagined in my head. i still think sanders may take iowa but overall hillary will have it
literally ignoring every single word they have spoken, every promise they've made, their political histories, their finances, everything
it's a fun buzz word that allows people like trump, with no political or law background, to say any stupid or bigoted thing they want. all he has to do is play up the anti-establishment angle because he simply speaks his mind with no filter, and his poll numbers rise. doesn't matter if he wants the rich to pay less taxes for instance (aka very very establishment) because he simply states that he isn't, over and over again. unlike another certain candidate that lies a metric galaxy closer to what could be considered "anti-establishment" in today's political climate, and has almost every angle of his being steered in that direction. a comparison of the two in almost any way, including being "anti-establishment," is ridiculous
topic: this is almost exactly what i imagined in my head. i still think sanders may take iowa but overall hillary will have it
My favorite is Huelen's grab bag of "I like Sanders, Biden, Trump, and Carson."
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Trump isn't a wrench, he's the id of the Republican Party. The GOP isn't against his policies or his way of doing things, they are against his optics and persona.
outunderthestars
Banned
Especially when Sanders has been in politics since 1981.
Right. The problem with Trump isn't that he doesn't share their ideology, its that he has no filter and they know that's going to make it even harder for them in the general election.
Claiming Trump is anti-establishment just means you have no actual understanding of what the establishment is. You're just spouting buzzwords.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Your argument of Trump being anti-establishment is one that is contrary to reality. Trump is the corporate backer element of the 'establishment' you're speaking of. He's the source of the issue. A vote for him is not disrupting the establishment. It is strengthening it by doing away with the only barrier between them and you.
Not sure why I have to point this out but apparently I do. diablos991 is not a Bernie Sanders supporter. He is an anti-establishment voter that favors Bernie over Trump. As a Bernie supporter the things he is saying makes no sense to me at all. Totally against what Bernie stands for as a candidate.
#NotAllBernieVoters
#NotAllBernieVoters
FunkyMunkey
Banned
honestly if his hair ran as vp i would consider a vote
soundscream
Member
Is his hair American? I'm going to need to see the long form receipt.
nah dude, establishment politics are so tired that it's worth supporting racism and misogyny!
Isn't this also what the electoral college is all about? Protection from the true popular vote?
Trump's actual proposed budget/tax plan was an even bigger handout to the wealthy and corporations than Jeb's and Rubio. You have to look at what he's actually proposing and not just the populist garbage he spews from his mouth.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
I can only imagine insensitive (or otherwise ignorant) white males would honestly follow through with that type of voting. Literally anyone would actually be faced with consequences of such moronic voting and very quickly too.
Same if its Hilary. Give him one term to fuck shit up hard and hopefully we can get someone better for the Dems in 2020.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Because the damage caused by a catastrophically terrible president is only contained to their term and couldn't possibly have irreversible ripple effects for decades.
Accelerationism is such a smart idea for smart people
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
Warren Harding didn't even need a full term to royally screw the United States. Some of you people scare the crap out of me.
Boombloxer
Member
Makes no fucking sense. You can have a terrible opinion and be wrong based on the underlying assumptions that cause you to form it.
Pretty much. This whole line of thought is FOH-level.
andythinkpad
Member
I am sorry the Donald rattle your cage. But seeing OT melt down over Trump winning and fleeing United States is one of the reasons I want to vote for him.
I will say this, I would vote Bloomberg over Trump.
Stop being so dramatic. None of the shit he wants to get done is going to happen. Hes going to fail miserably as a president and hopefully the next dem candidate will be much better.
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