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[cloudwalking]

neither do dem dirty coloureds, eh?

according to this poster, nope:

 

[Dead Man]

I got a question kind of OT but it has always been brought up by some of my friends when the topic been regarding muslim

what if I as a christian wanted to move to say some muslim country like, iran, iraq, or any other muslim country, do I have a church to go to?

here in sweden and other non muslim countries we build mosque so that the muslims have a place to go and pray, would the government in those countries do the same for us christians?

serious question, most of my friends would say no they wouldnt.. But is that really true?
I dont know anyone that is a muslim, so I wouldnt know.

Some it's true, others it's not. It also depends a bit on what you call a Muslim countries. Due to history and geography a lot of Muslim countries contain large Christian minorities.

 

[Jay Sosa]

plane.gif

 

[i hate bees]

"The proposal was backed by the Swiss People's Party (SVP), the largest party in parliament, which claims minarets are a sign of Islamisation."

"Islam is the most widespread religion after Christianity in Switzerland, but it remains relatively hidden.

There are unofficial Muslim prayer rooms, and planning applications for new minarets are almost always refused.

Supporters of a ban claim that allowing minarets would represent the growth of an ideology and a legal system - Sharia law - which are incompatible with Swiss democracy."

Still don't see a problem, yes it's pretty hardcore conservatism but they're not hurting anyone by doing this.

 

[Noshino]

Still don't see a problem, yes it's pretty hardcore conservatism but they're not hurting anyone by doing this.

Are you serious? Its on the same comment that you quoted!

"On Thursday the Geneva mosque was vandalised for the third time during the campaign, according to local media."

""This will cause major problems because during this campaign in the last two weeks different mosques were attacked, which we never experienced in 40 years in Switzerland.

"So with the campaign... the Islamaphobia has increased very intensively." "

Same source.

Do you really not see a problem?

 

[deadhorse32]

I got a question kind of OT but it has always been brought up by some of my friends when the topic been regarding muslim

what if I as a christian wanted to move to say some muslim country like, iran, iraq, or any other muslim country, do I have a church to go to?

here in sweden and other non muslim countries we build mosque so that the muslims have a place to go and pray, would the government in those countries do the same for us christians?

serious question, most of my friends would say no they wouldnt.. But is that really true?
I dont know anyone that is a muslim, so I wouldnt know.

Tariq Aziz Foreign Minister (1983 – 1991) and Deputy Prime Minister (1979 – 2003) of Iraq during Saddam Hussein reign is a chaldean catholic (Wiki).

 

[panda21]

Still don't see a problem, yes it's pretty hardcore conservatism but they're not hurting anyone by doing this.

what is the reason for it though? its an indirect way to try and ban a religion.

i'm against religion but banning it is one hell of a dumb ass idea, especially when you choose them arbitrarily.

 

[fortified_concept]

Still don't see a problem, yes it's pretty hardcore conservatism but they're not hurting anyone by doing this.

Most europeans hate conservatism. Hell, they'd even be "racist" against certain americans from the bible belt if they came here. It's not a matter of colour or ethnicity it's a matter of ideology.

Many middle age western europeans I've talked to grew up fighting against the moronic religious morals and superstitions of the previous generation and the last couple decades they felt like they're winning that battle. So when immigrants -in their majority illiterate and highly religious- come to their countries by the thousands it just feels to them like they're fighting the same battle all over again only this time it's way worse. If muslims become a majority in countries like Switzerland with low population their moronic religious ideology will prevail.

And for the record I'm all for this kind of "racism". We must stop them from spreading, both christian and muslim fundamentalists but the only way to do it is not through bans or force but integration into our society and proper education.

 

[giga]

Supporters of a ban claim that allowing minarets would represent the growth of an ideology and a legal system - Sharia law - which are incompatible with Swiss democracy.

:lol

 

[tino]

I thought this is fancy way to say "mine". But no! You guys are racist. That's it, I am banning swiss watch.

 

[Zenith]

Still don't see a problem, yes it's pretty hardcore conservatism but they're not hurting anyone by doing this.

joke post?

 

[Walshicus]

neither do dem dirty coloureds, eh?

Again, to be fair non-Swiss have a hard time integrating in Switzerland regardless of race.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Maybe the minaret ban is only until they allow church building in Mecca.

 

[Veidt]

Maybe the minaret ban is only until they allow church building in Mecca.

That's the same as having a Mosque or a Synagogue, built in the Vatican.

 

[msv]

i live right next to a huge church and the church bells are noisy and waking me up early every sunday morning when i want to sleep in. maybe i should start an initiative to get church bell towers banned too.

Why not, those bells are so fucking annoying. They tug on them ropes like spastic monkeys here, for about, a dozen times a day I think. I doesn't serve any purpose other than a form of PR for the church.

 

[Cirruss]

Maybe the minaret ban is only until they allow church building in Mecca.

Is there a mosque in Vatican City?

 

[numble]

Maybe the minaret ban is only until they allow church building in Mecca.

Lets ban Chinese-Americans from voting until China allows its people to vote, yeah!

 

[Kandrick]

I voted yes for that law agaisnt minarets. We already have one here where i live anyway ( one of the four in the country ) I dont want to see them poping everywhere.

 

[harSon]

Most europeans hate conservatism. Hell, they'd even be "racist" against certain americans from the bible belt if they came here. It's not a matter of colour or ethnicity it's a matter of ideology.

Many middle age western europeans I've talked to grew up fighting against the moronic religious morals and superstitions of the previous generation and the last couple decades they felt like they're winning that battle. So when immigrants -in their majority illiterate and highly religious- come to their countries by the thousands it just feels to them like they're fighting the same battle all over again only this time it's way worse. If muslims become a majority in countries like Switzerland with low population their moronic religious ideology will prevail.

And for the record I'm all for this kind of "racism". We must "eliminate" them all, both christian and muslim fundamentalists but the only way to do it is not through bans or force but integration into our society and proper education.

This post is pretty fucking scary.

 

[DieNgamers]

Strange idea. Embarassing for our neighbours, I guess.

 

[Dascu]

I voted yes for that law agaisnt minarets. We already have one here where i live anyway ( one of the four in the country ) I dont want to see them poping everywhere.

Question: Do you know when those 4 minarets were built? If they've been there for a while, I don't see why people should fear for a sudden surge in mosques "popping up everywhere".

 

[fortified_concept]

This post is pretty fucking scary.

It's not if you read the freaking quotes, it's a metaphor for god's sake. I knew someone wouldn't get it. Oh screw it, I'm editing to make it more politically correct.

 

[Goldrusher]

neither do dem dirty coloureds, eh?

Easy there.

They're not banning Islam or even mosques. Only minarets.

 

[Coins]

An expanding radical religion is very scary for people. The Swiss have a certain way of life and they want to protect that. I can understand where they are coming from.

What does it take to be a voting citizen in Switzerland?

 

[harSon]

What the fuck, I was expecting some overly large buildings but these Minarets in Switzerland are as about as big as your typical suburban home: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minaret_controversy_in_Switzerland

 

[Instigator]

Tariq Aziz Foreign Minister (1983 – 1991) and Deputy Prime Minister (1979 – 2003) of Iraq during Saddam Hussein reign is a chaldean catholic (Wiki).

Considering the chaos following the 2003 invasion and the massive influx of Iraqi refugees, Christian Iraqis no less, that's hardly an answer to Robertsan's question.

Saddam is out, so is Tariq. Parading religious minorities during Saddam's regime is not a reflection of today's Iraq.

 

[Veidt]

I voted yes for that law agaisnt minarets. We already have one here where i live anyway ( one of the four in the country ) I dont want to see them poping everywhere.

Banning the minaret will only make the people feel like they have to hide their religion and is clear sign to them of their religious beliefs being less welcome than others'. I'm sure that Switzerland as a secularist society, does not and should not distinguish one religion from another.

This is just another variation of DEY TUK UR JERBS! syndrome.

 

[cloudwalking]

Again, to be fair non-Swiss have a hard time integrating in Switzerland regardless of race.

if you have a hard time integrating into switzerland i think it's because you're making it harder on yourself in some way such as not learning the language or only hanging around with people in your own ethnic/race/language group.

if you can speak the local language (bonus points if you're in german-speaking switzerland and you speak a swiss german dialect) and are a productive member of society, i think most swiss people won't have a problem at all with you and are actually pretty friendly unless they just don't like immigrants in general. where i work we've got employees from all over the world, in fact probably half the staff are non-swiss, and we always get compliments on how great our people are.

a lot of non swiss get a bad rap here because a lot of them just don't integrate (and i am not just talking the usual suspects, americans, british, canadians etc are guilty of it too). they hang around in these groups of other expats or live in ethnic enclaves in the cities with no swiss people. i say let people live how they want to live, but a lot of the more intolerant people see this kind of behaviour as some kind of threat.

i speak swiss german with an accent and people notice that i'm not swiss, but usually they are really happy and proud when i tell them how much i love living here and that i love their language. if you're just easy going and make an effort i don't see how anyone could have a problem with you.

 

[numble]

Most europeans hate conservatism. Hell, they'd even be "racist" against certain americans from the bible belt if they came here. It's not a matter of colour or ethnicity it's a matter of ideology.

Many middle age western europeans I've talked to grew up fighting against the moronic religious morals and superstitions of the previous generation and the last couple decades they felt like they're winning that battle. So when immigrants -in their majority illiterate and highly religious- come to their countries by the thousands it just feels to them like they're fighting the same battle all over again only this time it's way worse. If muslims become a majority in countries like Switzerland with low population their moronic religious ideology will prevail.

And for the record I'm all for this kind of "racism". We must "eliminate" them all, both christian and muslim fundamentalists but the only way to do it is not through bans or force but integration into our society and proper education.

This post is pretty fucking scary.

 

[thefro]

They really ought to ban all ballot initiatives... people are too stupid to vote rationally and you end up getting this garbage where you take people's rights away with a 51-49 % vote.

 

[Kandrick]

Banning the minaret will only make the people feel like they have to hide their religion and is clear sign to them of their religious beliefs being less welcome than others'. I'm sure that Switzerland as a secularist society, does not and should not distinguish one religion from another.

Like i said, there is already a mosque here, which has a minaret too. They dont have to hide anything, its open for them to do their prayer and stuff.

 

[giga]

I voted yes for that law agaisnt minarets. We already have one here where i live anyway ( one of the four in the country ) I dont want to see them poping everywhere.

What's the difference between mosques without minarets "popping up everywhere" and mosques with minarets "popping up everywhere"?

Mob democracy is a scary thing.

 

[Chrono]

This is worth it just to see the hypocrites who don't give a damn about much worse restrictions on freedom of religion in the muslim world outraged about it.

 

[harSon]

It's not if you read the freaking quotes, it's a metaphor for god's sake. I knew someone wouldn't get it.

Not really, a "fear" of losing majority rule to a minority group is thinly veiled bullshit no matter how you phrase it.

 

[Speevy]

Let's ban Roger Federer, swiss cheese, and watches of all types.

Haha what time is it now? We don't know. That'll teach you.

 

[siddx]

If they were also banning the building off all other religious monuments and buildings, I would support this. But you can't pick and choose which religions to exclude. They should be getting rid of them all.

 

[Evolved1]

I hear screaming from the minarets/dreamed I killed god

 

[tokkun]

But the prosperity index told me Switzerland was #2 in terms of social trust....
http://www.prosperity.com/rankings.aspx

 

[Neo C.]

I voted yes for that law agaisnt minarets. We already have one here where i live anyway ( one of the four in the country ) I dont want to see them poping everywhere.

Even without the ban we had enough laws and rights to limit the size and the numbers of minarets. The ban isn't necessary (like half of the laws we have).

if you have a hard time integrating into switzerland i think it's because you're making it harder on yourself in some way such as not learning the language or only hanging around with people in your own ethnic/race/language group.

I still had to wait fucking 14 years until I could finally get the naturalization done. And a few years ago, the Swiss voted against a law to speed up the naturalization of the "secondos". :/

While the integration in work process and in society in general is much better than in other countries, we still fail in many aspects of integration.

 

[Instigator]

if you have a hard time integrating into switzerland i think it's because you're making it harder on yourself in some way such as not learning the language or only hanging around with people in your own ethnic/race/language group.

if you can speak the local language (bonus points if you're in german-speaking switzerland and you speak a swiss german dialect) and are a productive member of society, i think most swiss people won't have a problem at all with you and are actually pretty friendly unless they just don't like immigrants in general. where i work we've got employees from all over the world, in fact probably half the staff are non-swiss, and we always get compliments on how great our people are.

a lot of non swiss get a bad rap here because a lot of them just don't integrate (and i am not just talking the usual suspects, americans, british, canadians etc are guilty of it too). they hang around in these groups of other expats or live in ethnic enclaves in the cities with no swiss people. i say let people live how they want to live, but a lot of the more intolerant people see this kind of behaviour as some kind of threat.

i speak swiss german with an accent and people notice that i'm not swiss, but usually they are really happy and proud when i tell them how much i love living here and that i love their language. if you're just easy going and make an effort i don't see how anyone could have a problem with you.

Come on, Cloud, you of all people are familiar with the term 'visible minority'. You on the other hand blend in. That gives you an advantage over most darker immigrants. You could speak broken German and most locals would give you a break because you pretty much look like them. You're not a threat to them.

Do some visible minorities make it harder on themselves? Of course, but your personal experience as a foreigner is only a limited perspective on this issue.

 

[G.O.O.]

If they were also banning the building off all other religious monuments and buildings, I would support this. But you can't pick and choose which religions to exclude. They should be getting rid of them all.

No need to find a way that would be acceptable. They don't want to get rid of churches, it's a populist party and it's clear that this decision comes from an anti-islamic state of mind. No matter how they'll try to justify it (they probably won't, though, they have the people with them).

 

[Mr. Sam]

I thought it might have been another word for Swiss army knives. Imagine my relief when I found out it wasn't. Phew.

 

[giga]

For some perspective, three of the four total minarets in Switzerland..

Zurich

Geneva

Wangen bei Olten

 

[Speevy]

integration into our society and proper education.

Which always happens on its own without contempt or fighting.

 

[Speevy]

I thought it might have been another word for Swiss army knives. Imagine my relief when I found out it wasn't. Phew.

I thought it was a ballet step.

 

[G.O.O.]

And by the way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcyKqaU5BP4

Too bad he's french and not swiss, that would have been perfect

 

[siddx]

No need to find a way that would be acceptable. They don't want to get rid of churches, it's a populist party and it's clear that this decision comes from an anti-islamic state of mind. No matter how they'll try to justify it (they probably won't, though, they have the people with them).

Well that's what I mean. If they were saying "we need to put an end to religions ability to influence our behavior and start holding people accountable for their own actions and decisions and formations of morals and values. So we are going to stop building religious institutions as one of the methods of achieving that." I would understand and support that. But this isn't that, it's just a bunch of racist shits who have a history of being self serving cowards.

 

[Zapages]

Really Switzerland?! Stupid law. IMHO. The minarets don't even looks weird at all...

As for that video... Most people use them as symbolic instead of actually use them as in the video posted.

 

[Kinitari]

I voted yes for that law agaisnt minarets. We already have one here where i live anyway ( one of the four in the country ) I dont want to see them poping everywhere.

Out of curiosity - why don't you want to see them popping up everywhere? Do they offend you? Or are they not Swiss enough? If they are not swiss enough, what about other architectural things that were not born in Switzerland? To further that, how would you feel on a ban on Islam all together?

 

[Instigator]

Really Switzerland?! Stupid law. IMHO. The minarets don't even looks weird at all...

If they were fair, banning all church bells would be sweet. I used to live in front of a church, and it took me a while to sleep well on sunday mornings.