Support NeoGAF

[FortunateSon]

Nice job all around. I knew it won't be long until this would devolve into a loop of MediaCreate styled PS3 list wars vs. the Gamecube analogy.

Word brother, word. Honestly. I hate it when people pit the Ps3 to the Gc situation. Wow. I WAS enjoying the read but not anymore, lol.

 

[CorwinB]

Aww, no one liked my photoshop?

I did. Great stuff.

 

[_Angelus_]

Sucks to be Sony

Even worse if you're one of their fanboys.
:lol

 

[Phoenix Down]

As has been mentioned, the total userbase of the PS3 will be stopping it.



Don't get into a 'gamers' argument here. You're in a sales thread. And if you think that FFXIII is going to sell over 10 million on a userbase around "10-15 million" - as people are telling you, it's not going to happen.

how will the total userbase stop it if these games sell systems?

 

[Father_Brain]

What really is ***ing stupid, is how SOny hasn't learned anything form the N64. Just wow at how they ignored the fall of Nintendo is the 1996.

True, but I'd also say that they didn't learn anything from PSP. While it arguably hasn't been an outright failure, let alone the disaster that PS3 has become, its disappointing performance relative to DS should have taught Sony that its systems won't fly off shelves just because of the PS brand, especially when the goals of their designers (and the consequent pricing) are so out of touch with what most consumers want. I suppose one could say this about PSX as well.

Word brother, word. Honestly. I hate it when people pit the Ps3 to the Gc situation. Wow. I WAS enjoying the read but not anymore, lol.

The truth hurts, I know.

 

[StevieP]

how will the total userbase stop it if these games sell systems?

How did Mario sell on the Gamecube? Smash Brothers? Those are best-case scenarios for the top-selling PS3 titles, to be frank, unless the system starts tripling its sales tomorrow. It's sitting below GC territory right now, and looks to continue that trend.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

True, but I'd also say that they haven't learned anything from PSP. While it arguably hasn't been an outright failure, let alone the disaster that PS3 has become, its disappointing performance relative to DS should have taught Sony that its systems won't fly off shelves just because of the PS brand, especially when the goals of their designers (and the consequent pricing) are so out of touch with what most consumers want. I suppose one could say this about PSX as well.

They learned at least one thing from the PSP, and I feel it's incredibly valuable: They've responded to weak market reception with speedy price drops. I firmly believe the PSP wouldn't be trailing the DS nearly as much had they been more timely with their price drop and subsequent redesign.

 

[Maxwell House]

In comparison to the PS3 it absolutely destroys it.

:lol What???? :lol

 

[plagiarize]

They learned at least one thing from the PSP, and I feel it's incredibly valuable: They've responded to weak market reception with speedy price drops. I firmly believe the PSP wouldn't be trailing the DS nearly as much had they been more timely with their price drop and subsequent redesign.

the sad thing is that it wasn't so much that they LEARNED it as it was that they stopped doing it for a while. agressive pricing was a big part of what built the playstation brand in the first place, at least in Europe.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

the sad thing is that it wasn't so much that they LEARNED it as it was that they stopped doing it for a while. agressive pricing was a big part of what built the playstation brand in the first place, at least in Europe.

It boggles my mind too. I wish I could see the alternate universe where Sony actually made a competitive push with the PSP past launch. I really think a lot of things would be different, and the recent performance in Japan only cements that possibility in my mind.

 

[meltpotato]

man.. what a bloodbath

 

[Phoenix Down]

How did Mario sell on the Gamecube? Smash Brothers? Those are best-case scenarios for the top-selling PS3 titles, to be frank, unless the system starts tripling its sales tomorrow. It's sitting below GC territory right now, and looks to continue that trend.

Mario and smash bros sold well on the gamecube.. there the 2 top selling games... maybe if they sold more marios and smash brothers on the GC it would have sold more :lol

very weak argument

also add in the fact the GC 3rd party support was weak.. thats why it sold what it did

 

[Dualist]

Even worse if you're one of their fanboys.
:lol

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Aeris130]

Mario and smash bros sold well on the gamecube.. there the 2 top selling games... maybe if they sold more marios and smash brothers on the GC it would have sold more :lol

very weak argument

also add in the fact the GC 3rd party support was weak.. thats why it sold what it did

Where exactly would you put the limit on how many consoles FFXIII can sell then?

 

[Phoenix Down]

Where exactly would you put the limit on how many consoles FFXIII can sell then?

I dont know... my guess could change depending on what the price of the ps3 will be when it comes out ...its pointless guessing now

 

[rakka]

The truth hurts, I know.

saleswise the gc and ps3 could be compared. softwarewise however the ps3 is in a much better position (in terms of third party support especially).

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Wow@ at the ps3 is destined for GC status not even a year after release comments.

Xbox 360 shipments hit the 5 million mark

By Eric Bangeman | Published: July 21, 2006 - 10:17AM CT

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060721-7321.html

now you have a 200 dollar more console reaching that point in about a 3 month+ difference. How is the ps3 dead when its selling just a bit below what a 200 dollar cheaper with no competiton console sold in its first year? Give it time is all I'm saying.

 

[solid2snake]

Even worse if you're one of their fanboys.
:lol

mass-suicide confirmed?

 

[TiVo]

Wii = $250.00 machine selling for $350 on Amazon.
PS3 = $600.00 machine selling for $500 on Amazon

Wii sell for more PS3 sells for less.

Might possibly find a Wii in store maybe but starting November, expect a repeat of last year. Long lines this Black Friday.

 

[Doubledex]

Well naaaaah, I will edit that. Enough punishing here

 

[plagiarize]

Wow@ at the ps3 is destined for GC status not even a year after release comments.


http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060721-7321.html

now you have a 200 dollar more console reaching that point in about a 3 month+ difference. How is the ps3 dead when its selling just a bit below what a 200 dollar cheaper with no competiton console sold in its first year? Give it time is all I'm saying.

i don't think anyone is saying it's dead. listen, when someone says 'i think PS3 sales are going to explode when X happens' and i say 'i don't think PS3 sales are going to explode when X happens' i'm not saying the PS3 is dead, that sales won't be okay when X happens, i'm only saying that they won't explode when X happens.

the PS3 is to my humble knowledge tracking behind the gamecube. some of the top ten best reviewed games of all time failed to save the gamecube from third place. why should we presume that things will be different for the PS3, when the nintendo fans had all the same hopes pinned on price drops and game releases and those never came to fruition either.

as for the PS3 vs the 360... again. it's a pointless argument that isn't based in reality. in the last quarter, the 360 outsold the PS3 worldwide. that's the only metric that counts.

the PS3 needs to start outselling the Xbox 360 NOW to start gaining on it.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

I am one of the delusional people that believe that if the price is right, the PS3 will sell well.

I never said it would be number 1, hell, I never said it would be number two. It will sell well enough that the consoles will have respectable software sales.

 

[Arsenal]

I am one of the delusional people that believe that if the price is right, the PS3 will sell well.

I never said it would be number 1, hell, I never said it would be number two. It will sell well enough that the consoles will have respectable software sales.

Sure, it will sell. "Respectable" is a matter of opinion, but it could certainly reach that point for many gamers. But will it continue to cost Sony $840 million per quarter to subsidize it?

Sony's business model does not allow them to be in 3rd place, selling consoles for a loss and at the same time being outsold by their competitors who are selling their consoles for a profit. If this continues, Sony will be forced to make some pretty drastic changes.

 

[J-Rzez]

the PS3 needs to start outselling the Xbox 360 NOW to start gaining on it.

Not going to happen until some big games start hitting it at the very least... Personally, I think it's amazing it sold as much as it did at it's price with the lack of gaming library right now... And the price of entry is probably still too high for a lot of people wanting to make the shift from their PS2's as well...

 

[P90]

how will the total userbase stop it if these games sell systems?

Assume much. especially at the PS3's price?

 

[rakka]

the PS3 is to my humble knowledge tracking behind the gamecube. some of the top ten best reviewed games of all time failed to save the gamecube from third place. why should we presume that things will be different for the PS3, when the nintendo fans had all the same hopes pinned on price drops and game releases and those never came to fruition either?

because they are? quality game releases, esp. third party, were few and far between for the gc (re4 could have saved the system, but it came out a bit too late. and besides that, how many like it were there), whereas the ps3 has already sold 5m+, with games like dmc, gta4, ffxiii, mgs4, kz2, etc. still not yet released?

 

[Core407]

Not going to happen until some big games start hitting it at the very least... Personally, I think it's amazing it sold as much as it did at it's price with the lack of gaming library right now... And the price of entry is probably still too high for a lot of people wanting to make the shift from their PS2's as well...

Yeah, imagine when it actually gets Uncharted.

 

[PistolGrip]

Even worse if you're one of their fanboys.
:lol

grow up.

 

[koam]

grow up.

A fanboy has been spotted.

 

[rakka]

A fanboy has been spotted.

 

[plagiarize]

because they are? quality game releases, esp. third party, were few and far between for the gc (re4 could have saved the system, but it came out a bit too late. and besides that, how many like it were there), whereas the ps3 has already sold 5m+, with games like dmc, gta4, ffxiii, mgs4, kz2, etc. still not yet released?

first of all dmc and gta 4 aren't going to push the PS3. secondly, a similar argument could be have been made for the gamecube (and was).

at this point the GameCube still had Zelda, Mario Kart, Metroid Prime, F-Zero GX and many other games not out.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

i don't think anyone is saying it's dead. listen, when someone says 'i think PS3 sales are going to explode when X happens' and i say 'i don't think PS3 sales are going to explode when X happens' i'm not saying the PS3 is dead, that sales won't be okay when X happens, i'm only saying that they won't explode when X happens.

the PS3 is to my humble knowledge tracking behind the gamecube. some of the top ten best reviewed games of all time failed to save the gamecube from third place. why should we presume that things will be different for the PS3, when the nintendo fans had all the same hopes pinned on price drops and game releases and those never came to fruition either.

as for the PS3 vs the 360... again. it's a pointless argument that isn't based in reality. in the last quarter, the 360 outsold the PS3 worldwide. that's the only metric that counts.

the PS3 needs to start outselling the Xbox 360 NOW to start gaining on it.

The downfall of the cube was its "kid" image and its quantity of quality games. Cube had some great games but they came so far apart you were forced to buy the other two consoles to keep from playing the same thing for months after the replay value was dead and gone. As far as pricing the cube was below $200 for most of its life and still couldn't sell. Also as I said before, the cube had games but not enough and too far apart to become successful.

 

[Crisis]

The trolling is strong in this thread.

 

[Loudninja]

grow up.

Well he is banned...soooo

 

[rakka]

first of all dmc and gta 4 aren't going to push the PS3. secondly, a similar argument could be have been made for the gamecube (and was).

but somehow they sold ps2s.

at this point the GameCube still had Zelda, Mario Kart, Metroid Prime, F-Zero GX and many other games not out.

add re4 and a couple other games to the games you mentioned, and you've listed almost all the good games gc received in its entire lifespan, with only 1 or 2 of them being third party.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

but somehow they sold ps2s.

What other choice did you have if you wanted to play DMC or GTA-SA?

 

[plagiarize]

but somehow they sold ps2s.


add re4 and a couple other games to the games you mentioned, and you've listed almost all the good games gc received in its entire lifespan, with only 1 or 2 of them being third party.

i picked games that came out in the same time frame in it's life as the games you mentioned for the PS3.

mario 64 and ocarina of time sold a lot of N64s... but super mario sunshine and wind waker didn't sell as many gamecubes.

 

[meltpotato]

saleswise the gc and ps3 could be compared. softwarewise however the ps3 is in a much better position (in terms of third party support especially).

maybe they will even sell some of it one day.. what with that being how they make money and all

 

[Hcoregamer00]

Sure, it will sell. "Respectable" is a matter of opinion, but it could certainly reach that point for many gamers. But will it continue to cost Sony $840 million per quarter to subsidize it?

Sony's business model does not allow them to be in 3rd place, selling consoles for a loss and at the same time being outsold by their competitors who are selling their consoles for a profit. If this continues, Sony will be forced to make some pretty drastic changes.

Well, I said in a forum post a while back that sony really has two ways to go.

Profit at the cost of base - They could keep the console's price as high as possible and try to cut the losses as little as they can. This would keep the userbase low. An alternative form of this strategy is cutting costs in marketing and development to make profits. This also means no price cuts or little price cuts in the short and long run.

-or-

Base at the cost of profit - This is selling hardware at a heavily subsidized cost so that they could get a large userbase. Then you would use the licensing costs and 3rd party fees to generate revenue. This would assume that the momentum of the console would be so much that it creates a long life and ultimately profit in the long run.

Sony stuck with the first one for the PSP strategy when they realized that they couldn't catch up to the DS. Sony is just starting to use the second strategy.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

The downfall of the cube was its "kid" image and its quantity of quality games. Cube had some great games but they came so far apart you were forced to buy the other two consoles to keep from playing the same thing for months after the replay value was dead and gone. As far as pricing the cube was below $200 for most of its life and still couldn't sell. Also as I said before, the cube had games but not enough and too far apart to become successful.

The PS3 isn't exactly perceived in a very good light either (particularly in the media)... And yes, there's still a lot of room for a pricedrop for the PS3 but how much more of a loss is Sony willing to take per console? Will pricecuts matter much if Nintendo and Microsoft decide to play hardball? And will Sony continue to lose 3rd party exclusives?

It seems to me like Sony is on a sinking ship and more water is coming in than they're bucketing out. =/

 

[Jokeropia]

add re4 and a couple other games to the games you mentioned, and you've listed almost all the good games gc received in its entire lifespan, with only 1 or 2 of them being third party.

When it comes to possible system sellers, first party games are safer than third party games since they're guaranteed exclusives. (GTA, DMC, MH etc. should've taught you as much.)

 

[rakka]

i picked games that came out in the same time frame in it's life as the games you mentioned for the PS3.

and my point was, those few quality first party titles almost made up the entire gc library as we know it today. the ps3's known 2008/9 lineup already includes countless multiplat as well as exclusive first party AND third party (which frankly, the gc didn't have a lot of) games.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

The PS3 isn't exactly perceived in a very good light either (particularly in the media)... And yes, there's still a lot of room for a pricedrop for the PS3 but how much more of a loss is Sony willing to take per console? Will pricecuts matter much if Nintendo and Microsoft decide to play hardball? And will Sony continue to lose 3rd party exclusives?

It seems to me like Sony is on a sinking ship and more water is coming in than they're bucketing out. =/

the ps3s image comes from the prices and Sony's cocky attitude pre launch. Cube was kiddy because all of its premier titles were made from happy, bright colors and it lacked any mature themed titles.

there's no need for MS and Ninty to play hard ball with a distant third just like there was no reason for PS2 and Xbox to drop down to $99 to keep the mostly dead at that time gamecube. If the ps3 picks up then they will adjust their strategy but right now its not a real threat. 08 will tell the ps3's story IMO.

3rd party exclusives are a dying breed, everything will be multiplat except for first party titles and paid exclusives.

 

[plagiarize]

and my point was, those few quality first party titles almost made up the entire gc library as we know it today. the ps3's known 2008/9 lineup already includes countless multiplat as well as exclusive first party AND third party (which frankly, the gc didn't have a lot of) games.

you're thinking with hindsight.

if the games you highlighted do similar numbers to the games i highlighted, will the ps3's subsequent years be as good?

i don't see what first/third party exclusives has to do with anything. the gamecube had solid third party support *to start out*. nowhere near as good as the ps2's naturally... but comparable with the xbox.

 

[rakka]

When it comes to possible system sellers, first party games are safer than third party games since they're guaranteed exclusives. (GTA, DMC, MH etc. should've taught you as much.)

even if out of all these ps3 titles none of them alone push systems, the lineup as a whole in the next couple years is more than enough to do so.

 

[plagiarize]

even if out of all these ps3 titles none of them alone push systems, the lineup as a whole in the next couple years is more than enough to do so.

*le sigh*

do you see that that is a faith statement?

that's my point. not that these things can't or won't happen, just that it isn't logical to presume they will. history does not support it. Sony sure aren't resting on their laurels going 'the games are coming we don't need to do anything' they're out there agressively dropping the price of the system and doing everything they can to push the system.

if all the things you believed were right the PS3 wouldn't be in the position it is in and Sony wouldn't be acting the way they are.

they aren't doomed. they can still turn it around... but it isn't going to be because of a handful of games.

 

[rakka]

*le sigh*

do you see that that is a faith statement?

that's my point. not that these things can't or won't happen, just that it isn't logical to presume they will. history does not support it. Sony sure aren't resting on their laurels going 'the games are coming we don't need to do anything' they're out there agressively dropping the price of the system and doing everything they can to push the system.

if all the things you believed were right the PS3 wouldn't be in the position it is in and Sony wouldn't be acting the way they are.

they aren't doomed. they can still turn it around... but it isn't going to be because of a handful of games.

does it even matter? all i'm saying is in the end, saleswise it is a gamecube (at least right now -- i'm not arguing that it isn't). in terms of software, no.

 

[womfalcs3]

I don't see where it says 5.6 million consoles sold, but if that's the number, it's definitely above my expectations.

 

[plagiarize]

does it even matter? all i'm saying is in the end, saleswise it is a gamecube (at least right now -- i'm not arguing that it isn't). in terms of software, no.

in terms of software, to date, it's worse... but that's a different argument.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Damn, bishop is merciless in this thread.:lol