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[ZeoVGM]

The differences between series regular and recurring guest-star are minimal if we're talking about the number of episodes an actor is going to be in.

In fact a series regular can appear in less episodes than a special guest star. When Mark Sheppard was bumped to series regular, he said the main difference was that his contract now stipulated he couldn't appear on any other show during the season.

I imagine that for an actor like Pellegrino who gets role offers from fucking everywhere, it makes sense to put him as series regular to secure his appearance in several episodes in a row.

You're partly correct on this. Being a series regular on Supernatural doesn't mean you're in every episode but it does mean -- at least so far in its 12-season history -- that you're in at least half of the season.

Misha and Mark have "half season regular." Here's the episode count for Misha when he was as series regular:

5 - 14 episodes
6 - 12 episodes
9 - 11 episodes
10 - 13 episodes
11 - 13 episodes

He was in 5 episodes in season 7 and 9 episodes in season 8.

For Mark:

10 - 12 episodes
11 - 11 episodes

Before that, he was in 3, 8, 5, 9 and 9 episodes from seasons 5-9

Katie Cassidy's Ruby and Lauren Cohan's Bela were only in 6 episodes each during season 3. But that season was cut short from 22 episodes to 16 due to the writer's strike. Otherwise, they likely would have hit 11 episodes each.

So with that being said, I would not doubt at all if they have plans for Pellegrino to be a series regular from the start of season 13 and for him to be in at least half of the season.

 

[BoxManLocke]

I use to post about it along with the ratings drops in some of the other season threads. If you can find an episode rating guide and correlate between which episodes she was in, you'll see.

I just checked.

Ratings were fine for seasons 8 and 9. The only substantial decrease for a Charlie episode was episode 1011.

They would have decided to kill off the character based on a single episode rating ? I don't buy it.

So with that being said, I would not doubt at all if they have plans for Pellegrino to be a series regular from the start of season 13 and for him to be in at least half of the season.

Love me some Pellegrino.

But I really really really hope we're done with Lucifer after this season. This spawn of Satan is complete crap to me and it's taking time away from more interesting storylines. Also because of that Castiel is once again stuck in a boring B-plot.

 

[Kevin]

I just checked.

Ratings were fine for seasons 8 and 9. The only substantial decrease for a Charlie episode was episode 1011.

They would have decided to kill of the character based on a single episode rating ? I don't buy it.

I don't know. It was the impression I got. Either way I agree with you that she was an awesome character. My favorite from the newer seasons. I know the actor didn't want to leave the show. Something happened that got the writers to brutally kill her off. Such a shame!

 

[ZeoVGM]

I absolutely loved Charlie. However they did in-fact kill her character off because her episodes always saw major rating drops. Every time and it always disappointed me. Many fans refused to watch the episodes she was in which is lame. I am nearly certain that is why they killed her off.

Not to sound abrupt, but here's absolutely zero proof of that whatsoever..

First of all, if she was that unpopular, they wouldn't have kept bringing her back over and over. They would have simply dropped her character like they did with Cole (I'll give everyone a second to check a Supernatural Wiki to remind themselves who he was) in season 10. Instead, she was on the show for four seasons.

Second, your statement about the ratings isn't even true. Her debut episode in season 7 was up from the previous episode. Both her episodes in season 8 had increases from the previous episode. Her season 9 episode was down from the previous week. Two of her three episodes in season 10 were down. The third was up. So there's really no correlation there at all. The ratings go up and down at all the time.

And I think the reaction from reviewers and from fans at cons kind of speaks for itself as well. (No one was complaining when Bela died, for example.)

 

[BoxManLocke]

I don't know. It was the impression I got. Either way I agree with you that she was an awesome character. My favorite from the newer seasons. I know the actor didn't want to leave the show. Something happened that got the writers to brutally kill her off. Such a shame!

Are you sure you weren't a bit swayed by the people who said they would boycott Charlie episodes ?

Because that happened often in seasons 8 and 9, I was surprised by the hate she got.

But it never really translated in the ratings. Episode 1011 was a big drop but it can be attributed to anything really. Drops happened randomly on the show before.

 

[Media]

It actually isn't a minority opinion. Charlie was great and, in my opinion, the worst decision ever made by the writers.

She doesn't get a lot of love here on GAF but Charlie is one of the most popular characters on the show. Hell, she was the first character after Sam, Dean and Cas to get a Funko Pop, even before Bobby.

Also, watch how incredibly awkward the SDCC panel was when a fan asked about her death.

https://youtu.be/1BYjUTyoEP4?t=35m

Such a bullshit answer omg. 'We kill characters all the time.' Sure, but only the girls stay dead, Mary not withstanding

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

I'd take a Charlie over Mama Winchester any day.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Such a bullshit answer omg. 'We kill characters all the time.' Sure, but only the girls stay dead, Mary not withstanding

I'll be a bit fair as I don't think that's true. They brought back both Ellen and Jo, just as they've brought back Kevin, Ash and Gabriel.

I think they kill off too many characters in general but the way Charlie died was just poorly done and pretty damn tone deaf. They had built her up to be a strong character but she ran away from safety because she didn't like arguing with another woman, only to dump her in a bathtub?

No thanks.

It was also the only Charlie episode not written by Robbie Thompson, which is telling and likely why she was so out of character.

 

[BoxManLocke]

Such a bullshit answer omg. 'We kill characters all the time.' Sure, but only the girls stay dead, Mary not withstanding

The worst part about Charlie's death is that it was only used to cause Dean some manpain to push him over the edge because the writers had spent the entire season 10 sitting on their fucking thumbs and doing absolutely nothing with the Mark of Cain.

And also, I don't see people often pointing that out : for such an important character, her death had ZERO impact outside of very short term. They never talked about Charlie again after her funeral.

It's like the writers all knew they had shat out such an embarrassing script, they thought it'd just be better to never mention it again.

That's why I don't think the character will ever come back. They spent far too much time pretending she never existed.

It was also the only Charlie episode not written by Robbie Thompson, which is telling and likely why she was so out of character.

It's also not a coincidence he got the fuck out of here just one season later.

He was among the few writers who just got what the show was about. You'll notice the duo of incompetent hack writers who wrote Charlie's death (among a variety of awful episodes) are still there, and have been here non-stop since season 7.

 

[ZeoVGM]

It's also not a coincidence he got the fuck out of here just one season later.

He was among the few writers who just got what the show was about. You'll notice the duo of incompetent hack writers who wrote Charlie's death (among a variety of awful episodes) are still there, and have been here non-stop since season 7.

I don't think he left because of that. I mean, he stayed on the next full season and didn't have to. He said he left to focus more on Marvel, which he definitely has done.

 

[BoxManLocke]

I don't think he left because of that. I mean, he stayed on the next full season and didn't have to. He said he left to focus more on Marvel, which he definitely has done.

Seems to me he was in conflict with Singer and his wife in season 10. He was pretty open about being unhappy, which is rare for a writer, and voilà, right when we learn Singer comes out of retirement and goes back to being co-showrunner for season 12 (he had no creative input in season 11, only directed episodes), Robbie bails.

Maybe it's just my personal fanfiction, but the guy was way too talented to stick around with higher ups who would mess with his creativity.

They allowed him more freedom in season 11 when Singer wasn't around and as a result he wrote what is in my top 5 best SPN episodes, Baby.
Don't Call Me Shurley was also pretty amazing.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Seems to me he was in conflict with Singer and his wife in season 10. He was pretty open about being unhappy, which is rare for a writer, and voilà, right when we learn Singer comes out of retirement and goes back to being co-showrunner for season 12 (he had no creative input in season 11, only directed episodes), Robbie bails.

Maybe it's just my personal fanfiction, but the guy was way too talented to stick around with higher ups who would mess with his creativity.

They allowed him more freedom in season 11 when Singer wasn't around and as a result he wrote what is in my top 5 best SPN episodes, Baby.
Don't Call Me Shurley was also pretty amazing.

Do you have a link to this? Never seen it.

 

[BoxManLocke]

Do you have a link to this? Never seen it.

Search for his panel at DePaul university in 2015 (there are no videos of the thing, only fan recaps).

Obviously it's not full-on complaints or anything like that, but he did say that the SPN writer's room was an illusion of democracy and he talks in lenghts about Charlie's death and how he tried to prevail it.

The guy is also a fan of Sera Gamble which is funny to me. One thing I noticed about all the cast and crew interviews post-season 7 was how everyone went out of their way to erase her from the show's history. You hear a lot about how they owe everything to Kripke, but listening to them you'd never think Gambe was showrunner at any point. And when they did talk about that time, it's to point out things that sucked about some scripts (Jensen in several conventions).

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

Their dad wasn't awful...His wife got burned alive by a demon, it's enough to make anyone go off the rails. He still loved his sons and did what he did to save em and protect em. He sold his soul to save Dean. He wasn't the greatest, but he's far from terrible. Even Sam acknowledged that later on in the show.

I want Charlie back to, I...I loved her .

 

[-Deimos]

Whoa, no secrets? CW ain't gonna be happy about that...

 

[Media]

Their dad wasn't awful...His wife got burned alive by a demon, it's enough to make anyone go off the rails. He still loved his sons and did what he did to save em and protect em. He sold his soul to save Dean. He wasn't the greatest, but he's far from terrible. Even Sam acknowledged that later on in the show.

I want Charlie back to, I...I loved her .

There is literally a tag on the biggest fanfiction archive called 'John Winchester's A+ parenting' so I think fandom largely disagrees. They think he was pretty abusive to Dean as well.

 

[BlueSnowboarder]

Their dad wasn't awful...His wife got burned alive by a demon, it's enough to make anyone go off the rails. He still loved his sons and did what he did to save em and protect em. He sold his soul to save Dean. He wasn't the greatest, but he's far from terrible. Even Sam acknowledged that later on in the show.

I want Charlie back to, I...I loved her .

There is literally a tag on the biggest fanfiction archive called 'John Winchester's A+ parenting' so I think fandom largely disagrees. They think he was pretty abusive to Dean as well.

Not saying John wasnt abusive to Dean, there's a good chance he was, at least verbally, but he wasnt the worst. I mean it could have been a lot LOT worse, and he did everything he could to protect his boys, always did what he thought was right I guess.....Not that I agree with everything, he could be a MAJOR douchebag but he wasnt an awful human being. He even climbed outta hell to help them again.

Also......wow....you guys really dont like the way Charlie died

 

[Media]

Not saying John wasnt abusive to Dean, there's a good chance he was, at least verbally, but he wasnt the worst. I mean it could have been a lot LOT worse, and he did everything he could to protect his boys, always did what he thought was right I guess.....Not that I agree with everything, he could be a MAJOR douchebag but he wasnt an awful human being. He even climbed outta hell to help them again.

Also......wow....you guys really dont like the way Charlie died

I agree about John, he was fucked up but could have been A LOT worse.

I will never forgive Carver for Charlie

 

[Septimus Prime]

I feel like they're at least trying to restore John's rotation a bit this season. Like, after they killed him off, they dragged his name in the mud so hard to push that Bobby was their "real" dad, and that didn't sit well with me at all.

 

[BKatastrophe]

This season might be in my top 5 seasons. Like damn has it been so good. It's playing clean up and in the BEST way. Only way they could make it better is by having leviathan episode.

I agree about John, he was fucked up but could have been A LOT worse.

I will never forgive Carver for Charlie

I'll do you one even better:

I'll never forgive Carver for Kevin AND



Garth

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

Not saying John wasnt abusive to Dean, there's a good chance he was, at least verbally, but he wasnt the worst. I mean it could have been a lot LOT worse, and he did everything he could to protect his boys, always did what he thought was right I guess.....Not that I agree with everything, he could be a MAJOR douchebag but he wasnt an awful human being. He even climbed outta hell to help them again.

Also......wow....you guys really dont like the way Charlie died

Yeh because it made no sense. She would not give into such a girly arugment and get up and leave on her own. Especially knowing that steroid men are after them. Also she held her own against a man with two arms without having a weapon. Then a one armed man fights her, she has a blade, she dies. Okay. Plus no story reason to kill her.

I'm pissed they killed Kevin, but his death made sense to the story. I don't like how he died but not much can be done. At least he didn't go adventure on his own...

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Whoa, no secrets? CW ain't gonna be happy about that...

Two seasons in a row of no secrets? It is like they learned their lesson!

 

[ZeoVGM]

This season might be in my top 5 seasons. Like damn has it been so good. It's playing clean up and in the BEST way. Only way they could make it better is by having leviathan episode.

I'll do you one even better:

I'll never forgive Carver for Kevin AND



Garth

Garth is alive dude.

 

[DarkHeartedKill]

Garth is alive dude.

Yea but he's a werewolf which didn't go over too well I think. Not sure how everyone else feels about it but I hate it. I like that they didn't kill him off, but still...

 

[B-Dubs]

Yea but he's a werewolf which didn't go over too well I think. Not sure how everyone else feels about it but I hate it. I like that they didn't kill him off, but still...

Dude's married though, he managed to get out and live a mostly normal life. Though, the whole British Men of Letters thing might wind up putting an end to that.

 

[BKatastrophe]

Garth is alive dude.

Yeah, but I feel like they just tossed him out. Not a fan of the werewolf thing at all. Character had potential with the whole "he's the new Bobby" thing, and they just tossed him out.

 

[TheOMan]

I agree about John, he was fucked up but could have been A LOT worse.

I will never forgive Carver for Charlie

Agreed. They bungled that, hard.

This season might be in my top 5 seasons. Like damn has it been so good. It's playing clean up and in the BEST way. Only way they could make it better is by having leviathan episode.

I'll do you one even better:

I'll never forgive Carver for Kevin AND



Garth

Kevin - I can see. Garth...making him a werewolf is just weird. I thought he was gonna become the new Bobby for sure.

 

[BlueSnowboarder]

Yeh because it made no sense. She would not give into such a girly arugment and get up and leave on her own. Especially knowing that steroid men are after them. Also she held her own against a man with two arms without having a weapon. Then a one armed man fights her, she has a blade, she dies. Okay. Plus no story reason to kill her.

I'm pissed they killed Kevin, but his death made sense to the story. I don't like how he died but not much can be done. At least he didn't go adventure on his own...

Not saying Charlies death made a whole lotta sense either....I think it was a little to be able to create another divide between Sam and Dean and push Dean over....but i dunno....I'd love to actually find out the exact reason the writers went that way. But I will say that you can't win every fight....Sam and Dean are great fighters but they're constantly getting beaten up lol.

Yea but he's a werewolf which didn't go over too well I think. Not sure how everyone else feels about it but I hate it. I like that they didn't kill him off, but still.

Yeah wasn't too big of a fan of the whole Garth and the werewolf thing. I miss Garth and his weirdness

 

[The Hobo]

They had to write Garth out somehow. It was clear they couldn't get DJ Qualls to appear easily, due to scheduling or pay, given how often they had Sam or Dean briefly mention that Garth was off doing something.

 

[B-Dubs]

They had to write Garth out somehow. It was clear they couldn't get DJ Qualls to appear easily given how often they had Sam or Dean briefly mention that Garth was off doing something.

He was working like 2 other TV shows while doing Supernatural. I assume he just didn't have the time.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

He was working like 2 other TV shows while doing Supernatural. I assume he just didn't have the time.

Yeah, as great as Supernatural is, I feel some actors have bigger aspirations. Like, take the actor who played Sweets in Bones, they killed him off at the start of season..9?10? because he wanted to direct National Lampoons vacation.

...That was a huge mistake on his part seeing as how he was a regular cast member at that point.

 

[BKatastrophe]

I don't think they had to write Garth out. They could have still had him be the dispatcher/ID cover guy, but only ever occasionally have Dean or Sam get off the phone and go, "Garth says *insert here."

That's it. Making him a werewolf felt like a strange way to get rid of him.

Also, Benny was cool. I miss Benny.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

I don't think they had to write Garth out. They could have still had him be the dispatcher/ID cover guy, but only ever occasionally have Dean or Sam get off the phone and go, "Garth says *insert here."

That's it. Making him a werewolf felt like a strange way to get rid of him.

Also, Benny was cool. I miss Benny.

Oh, Benny. The only break up scene on this show to actually deliver some feels. Man, that scene was rough when Dean had to kill him.

 

[Media]

Oh, Benny. The only break up scene on this show to actually deliver some feels. Man, that scene was rough when Dean had to kill him.

I ship Destiel hard but Benny/Dean is a neck and neck. That scene, god damn, I was sobbing like a baby.

Literally me:

 

[PhoncipleBone]

The threesome ship to end all ships on Tumblr.
Only adding Cumberbatch could increase its power.

 

[BKatastrophe]

Oh, Benny. The only break up scene on this show to actually deliver some feels. Man, that scene was rough when Dean had to kill him.

I would have liked Benny as a recurring ally.

I really wish the show had a bigger ensemble. They've killed off/gotten rid of so many good supporting/recurring characters. Kevin, Charlie, Garth, Benny, Rufus, Bobby, Ellen, Jo, Meg. I genuinely liked some of those, and while I'm fine with some leaving (Bobby, Ellen, and Rufus), I wish the rest had stayed around. At least it seems like they're trying to maintain a bigger cast with Mama Winchester and Rowena.

Speaking of the King of Hell's mother, was anyone else severely disappointed by their complete and utter lack of follow-up on the whole Grand Coven thing? I really thought they were going to lead hard into witches in S10 and we really didn't get anything. Rowena killed them all. The end.

 

[Media]

The threesome ship to end all ships on Tumblr.
Only adding Cumberbatch could increase its power.

Heads would explode and tumblr would implode over the power of Destennybatch.

Edit: was always kinda disappointed the Dean/Cas/Benny 3tp ship was named Team Purgatory and not Destenny (Destiny). Missed opportunity there imo.

 

[Mengy]

I'll admit, I never cared for the character of Charlie. I like the actress just fine, I just didn't think her character synergized well with the rest of the show in Supernatural. It always felt like the writers were "forcing" her into the show to me.

I know a lot of you all liked her, but I for one was glad to see her killed off.

 

[B-Dubs]

Was there not a new episode tonight?

 

[ZeoVGM]

Was there not a new episode tonight?

Not back on until two weeks from tonight.

 

[Jinfash]

Quick question about this show: I have so much love and fond memories of it from the very beginning all the way to the Michael vs. Lucifer battle, at the end of season 5, methinks. [Citation Needed]

I remember being slightly underwhelmed by that ending, but I still thought the show was worthwhile overall. That's when I read an article mentioning how that was supposed to be the series' conclusion, but they stretched it beyond that season because of demand or something. Can someone plot out the show's quality past that point?

Is it still dabbling in biblical mythos or did they segue into something else?

I guess what I'm trying to ask is holy shit they're at season 12! How the hell did they get here and what am I missing out on?

Sorry. Too​ many questions rushing out at once.

 

[Mengy]

Hah, this came across my youtube start page tonight, never seen it before but damn is it a riot:

The story of how Jared and Jensen first met

LOL!!!!

 

[Septimus Prime]

Quick question about this show: I have so much love and fond memories of it from the very beginning all the way to the Michael vs. Lucifer battle, at the end of season 5, methinks. [Citation Needed]

I remember being slightly underwhelmed by that ending, but I still thought the show was worthwhile overall. That's when I read an article mentioning how that was supposed to be the series' conclusion, but they stretched it beyond that season because of demand or something. Can someone plot out the show's quality past that point?

Is it still dabbling in biblical mythos or did they segue into something else?

I guess what I'm trying to ask is holy shit they're at season 12! How the hell did they get here and what am I missing out on?

Sorry. Too​ many questions rushing out at once.

We generally disagree about the quality of specific seasons, but a safe-ish consensus is that seasons 6-10 are bad to mediocre, 11 is fantastic (I consider it the real 6), and 12 has a lot of potential, with a lot of good episodes.

In terms of biblical stuff, yes, they get into some of it, but it's kind of poorly executed until season 11.

 

[B-Dubs]

We generally disagree about the quality of specific seasons, but a safe-ish consensus is that seasons 6-10 are bad to mediocre, 11 is fantastic (I consider it the real 6), and 12 has a lot of potential, with a lot of good episodes.

In terms of biblical stuff, yes, they get into some of it, but it's kind of poorly executed until season 11.

We can generally agree there are some amazing episodes in 6-10 though.

 

[BoxManLocke]

I guess what I'm trying to ask is holy shit they're at season 12! How the hell did they get here and what am I missing out on?

Most loyal fanbase in history. Because of that the ratings have always been good enough.

Did you love the characters back then ? If so, there's a reason for you to keep watching, and it'll most likely always be there.

Also there's that gem of an episode that comes out once or twice per season that makes me glad the show is still on.

Can someone plot out the show's quality past that point?

Season 6 : Mediocre
Season 7 : Decent
Season 8 : Good
Season 9 : Decent
Season 10 : Insulting piece of shit
Season 11 : Good
Season 12 : Good so far

 

[ZeoVGM]

Most loyal fanbase in history. Because of that the ratings have always been good enough.

Did you love the characters back then ? If so, there's a reason for you to keep watching, and it'll most likely always be there.

Also there's that gem of an episode that comes out once or twice per season that makes me glad the show is still on.



Season 6 : Mediocre
Season 7 : Decent
Season 8 : Good
Season 9 : Decent
Season 10 : Insulting piece of shit
Season 11 : Good
Season 12 : Good so far

Switch 10 and 7 and you're good.

 

[BoxManLocke]

Switch 10 and 7 and you're good.

Nah. I know I'm in the minority for season 7, but I enjoyed its lighter tone.

Leviathans were a weak ass big bad, but thankfully Carver since then has set a new standard of awfulness when it comes to big bads. Also they fit well in the tone.

Season 10 on the other hand... oh boy. It's the culmination of everything that was wrong with Carver as a showrunner. Fucking terrible.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Nah. I know I'm in the minority for season 7, but I enjoyed its lighter tone.

Leviathans were a weak ass big bad, but thankfully Carver since then has set a new standard of awfulness when it comes to big bads. Also they fit well in the tone.

Season 10 on the other hand... oh boy. It's the culmination of everything that was wrong with Carver as a showrunner. Fucking terrible.

There is so much wrong in this post mixed with one right thing, which was the Leviathans being a weak ass big bad. Of course, they coulda been great, but were bungled hard by Sera Gamble.

 

[Septimus Prime]

I imagine the leviathans were supposed to be a multi-season threat, but that changed when Gamble knew she was leaving.

Dick Roman was still better than that Naomi crap, though.

 

[BoxManLocke]

There is so much wrong in this post mixed with one right thing, which was the Leviathans being a weak ass big bad. Of course, they coulda been great, but were bungled hard by Sera Gamble.

That I enjoyed its lighter tone is wrong ? I mean, it was lighter, that's a fact. Funniest big bad, funny side characters, funny episodes.

And also, Death's Door. Now that's a masterpiece.

As for season 10 being utter shit I will always stand by it.

Season 9 was a setup to Dean becoming a demon. Possibly the most promising storyline in the history of the show.

That was dropped after 3 episodes. And not even good ones, either. Their version of demon Dean was regular Dean but cranky/edgy, as I suppose the writer feared part of the fandom would turn on Dean if they saw him doing some really shitty things.

Then they chose to go back to the Mark Of Caïn, something we already knew everything about, since already fully explored in season 9. There was nothing new to tell.

As a result, the plot moved at the pace of a double amputee turtle on sedatives.

It was the worst season in terms of new characters (Cole, Claire & Rowena).

Crowley spent the entire season arguing with him mom which destroyed the character.

Castiel was stuck in angelic B-plots as usual.

Sam had 1 basic function : worrying about Dean, even though we were almost never showed the true impact of the mark on his brother.

They killed Charlie in the most insulting way possible.

The morality of the finale was "fuck the world as long as the Winchesters can survive", as they unleashed a powerful evil by saving each other for the fifteenth fucking time.
Thankfully the writers worked hard to address this issue these last couple of seasons.

So yeah, season 10 was crap. The only thing I liked about it was Fan Fiction (yay Robbie Thompson) and that episode where Dean goes back to being a kid.

Edit : Oh, also remember that point in season 10 where the First Blade disappeared in suddenly the bearer of the Mark had full power without it, even though we were told several times before that the Mark was useless withouth the Blade and vice-versa ? Yeah, that was nice.