Grinchy
Banned
I could care less about this. I would of had a stroke by now if I cared about it.
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If you thought Diablo 3's economy was bad before [Duping exploit, trillions of gold]
- Thread starter fastford58
- Start date
I could care less about this. I would of had a stroke by now if I cared about it.
I just played the game and didn't mess with the stores or auction houses. It's much more enjoyable that way. However, the finding Orange items was lame because they were always useless.
EDIT:
I see what you did there.
EDIT:
I see what you did there.
Haunted
Member
your such a troll
edwardslane
Member
Diablo 2 is one of the great games of all time..
Diablo 3 i enjoyed for a small snippet. about 1/100th the playtime i put into diablo 2.. hell i played diablo 2 before the release of diablo 3 and started using JSP.. man that was fun!
Diablo 2 is the peak and has yet to be challenged.. in order to make the genre better someone has to find a way to recreate all that made diablo 2 awesome and then some.
Looking forward to the day that game is created.
Hell i'd buy a diablo 2 expansion if it was released..
Diablo 3 i enjoyed for a small snippet. about 1/100th the playtime i put into diablo 2.. hell i played diablo 2 before the release of diablo 3 and started using JSP.. man that was fun!
Diablo 2 is the peak and has yet to be challenged.. in order to make the genre better someone has to find a way to recreate all that made diablo 2 awesome and then some.
Looking forward to the day that game is created.
Hell i'd buy a diablo 2 expansion if it was released..
fastford58
Member
The English language has been on a steady decline for many (hundreds of) years now. The decline has accelerated with the advent of electronic communications and other "concessions" made surrounding the proper use of the language.
My guess is that it will continue to devolve. If you are going to get worked up about the perfect use of English, you midaswell stay inside your house and never engage in communication. This is especially true for electronic communication (message boards specifically) where you are going to get a large cross section of not only ages, but education level and English as a second language speakers as well.
My use of the word "literally" in this thread was purposefully done in order to invoke an actual image in the reader's head of the dev team, perhaps the retail packaging, or the Lord of Terror himself defecating among the sheets. I decided not to go into a graphic description of the event to keep the post short and to the point.
The nice thing about the English language is that once you can get past the rigid understanding of it, it becomes quite playful in interpretation. This is both a blessing and a burden for some.
Back on topic:
Gold floor clarification for the individual that asked: Gold is tied to a real money value due to how the D3 system was created. Blizzard's gold floor, that is, the lowest amount you could sell an amount of gold for, was 25cents for 1 million. They lowered it to 25cents for 10 million. This is the root of the dupe.
Gems were selling for roughly 60 cents in the RMAH, which amounted to about 24 million gold. Gem prices started rising like crazy, at one point hitting 200million plus. Now this could be argued as legitimate flipping; there are no checks and balances in place to prevent this type of disparity between the 2 auction houses.
The real issue is when people discovered they could start an auction in the real money auction house to sell gold, and then cancel it. At the cancellation, the gold would inexplicably double itself when it was sent back to the player's stash.
So for now:
No rollback. Economy is boned (worse than before). Many top tier wizards are bailing out (we are talking top 10 ranking guys here).
Blizzard, as per usual, is pulling the old Iraqi information minister routine: "It's not bad, nothing to see here!"
RPGCrazied
Member
I can never sell anything on the RMAH, I've tried and tried. I managed to get $5 way back during launch, but other than that I can't sell shit. Oh well, most of the stuff I can use at 60, but have yet to get to 60. I'm only 52, and haven't had much urge to go back to leveling him.
Noisepurge
Member
old manatee
Banned
indeed, that's why im actually waiting for the PS4 copy to be superior!
I don't think they can fix the garbage story, shit level design, and boring loot.
partyphone
Banned
My favorite thing about the dupe bug was that you could only do it if you already had billions of gold. so it was only heavily invested Diablo 3 players who were getting banned for doing it.
I don't know that this is going to ruin the economy or anything. It was already pretty terrible. Prices on weaker ilvl 60+ gear had bottomed out awhile ago and I don't think all the extra gold in the system is going to affect those prices all that much. There will undoubtedly be some inflation on the higher end gear but it was already crazy expensive before any of this happened and a rollback isn't going to fix that.
What we need are further improvements to itemization and those are going to be coming in later patches.
I don't know that this is going to ruin the economy or anything. It was already pretty terrible. Prices on weaker ilvl 60+ gear had bottomed out awhile ago and I don't think all the extra gold in the system is going to affect those prices all that much. There will undoubtedly be some inflation on the higher end gear but it was already crazy expensive before any of this happened and a rollback isn't going to fix that.
What we need are further improvements to itemization and those are going to be coming in later patches.
gravitybear
Member
DOWN WITH THE 1%
OMFG o_0 what a disaster.
Ps. Its funny to watch people defending Blizzard and claiming that game has improved a lot. Changing drop rates, health ratios in parties and spawn ratios [took only one year] is stuff that should be fixed in week/two after launch or just before release, its very simple change in database, it shouldnt take months and months and its not improving game, just makes it not totally broken.
Game will improve a lot when they fix encounters, zones, loot, skills and stat system.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Now a days you're probably right, but a lot of people have a sour taste in their mouth still from release where it was impossible to progress through Act 2 inferno without the AH or doing silly things like breaking boxes and pots for gear and gold and glitching your way into inferno act 4 and have Tyrael solo shit for you.
Early diablo 3 was a mess but I kind of loved the STICK IT TO THE MAN attitude everyone had going at the time, it was just everyone jumping on the first broken thing they could find and abusing it before it inevitably got patched.
I remember living lightning + CM like it was yesterday. It was the only way I was able to make it through Act 2 inferno before it got fixed then I had to reroll demon hunter and SS + prep my way through everything.
partyphone
Banned
Unfortunately Blizzard never does anything quickly. But at least the game will be around in 10 years and in better shape than it is now.
It means that before the patch, the lowest you could buy/sell your gold for was $0.25 a million. So if you wanted to buy 100 million gold it would cost you $25 and viceversa. Now the lowest is $0.25 per 10 million, so the same 100 million would only cost you $2.5.
Being a billionaire in this game was never easier!
I really should've just sold off all my character's stuff as soon as the RMAH came out. Although I had no means to do so and still don't, so whatever. I still wonder how much I could've got, considering I had an inferno-clearing barbarian before any of the nerfs happened.
I just totally lost interest in the game soon after RMAH went live and quit playing almost immediately. The gold AH was kind of a mess too (and broken half the time) but it was still fairly stable and you could reliably look forward to gear upgrades if you got a nice drop.
I just totally lost interest in the game soon after RMAH went live and quit playing almost immediately. The gold AH was kind of a mess too (and broken half the time) but it was still fairly stable and you could reliably look forward to gear upgrades if you got a nice drop.
Sure, some changes like drop rates can be fixed relatively quickly. But perhaps, Blizzard, like any other competent developer or company, decided not to implement changes in a knee-jerk reaction style and instead decided to take a measured approach to things and to actually *think* changes through before implementing them?
Besides to claim that most of the updates implemented thus far could have been done in weeks is just ridiculous. We are talking about new recipes, ubers, MP levels, completely redesigned legendaries, PvP arena, Paragon level and countless other tweaks. How many other games do you know of that have made such drastic changes over the course of year since release?
And when was the last time you played the game?
Path of Exile is currently facing a similar situation actually with most in game currency (the orbs) facing a severe devaluation, to the point where some of the major trading sites are equating values in real money terms and fan made auction houses have already been set up to work off the trading forums. This is mostly due to the fact that the orbs supposedly having an assigned value as their use in crafting have lost this value since crafting is just far too random making them a waste of time, trading is the only real guarantee and to that end certain orbs are therefore far more valuable. It's obviously nowhere near as a bad as the situation in D3 though, and hopefully can't get to that level since the floor values are already in place to prevent it.
old manatee
Banned
The game has been out a year and it is in worse shape than ever because they fixed a bunch of low hanging fruit while ignoring the fundamental ways that the design is broken.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Hey, at least there is still a lot to look forward to, like PvP and good loot.
...
The only hope of the console version is the loot being improved (I agree with the rest).
Is there any real reason that they would simply NOT be able to improve the loot? Drop rates can't stay as they are, obviously, but what else is holding it back?
The combat isn't as exciting as D3 or PoE and the skill trees are honestly kind of lame. I regret buying TL2, PoE is a better D3 alternative for me.
I just wish a game existed with D3's amazing combat and PoE's amazing dungeon map system.
That said, I'm surprised people actually care about the economy in these games considering most people here seemed quite vocal about only wanting single player. It shouldn't effect you, right?
ThatStupidLion
Member
for everyone laughing and waiting for the console versions thinking it'll be great, let me tell you that the game in general is boring, and just becasue it wont have an aution house doesn't mean the game will be amazing and back to what it should have been.
sure the game did some things right...but it did 100s more wrong.
biggest disappointment i think in all of gaming, personally. can't remember another worse time had. maybe heroes of might and magic 4 - but that's a completely different matter.
sure the game did some things right...but it did 100s more wrong.
biggest disappointment i think in all of gaming, personally. can't remember another worse time had. maybe heroes of might and magic 4 - but that's a completely different matter.
partyphone
Banned
Drop rates were initially balanced around the AH. But now that we have nephilim valor and monster power drop rates are no longer the issue. I an get a bag full of rates in 15 minutes but not a single one of them will be any good.
Their goal for addressing this is by reducing the number of drops again while tightening up the ranges for stat rolls. For example instead of a stat rolling between 5-100 it'll roll between 75-100. But the trade off is you're only getting a quarter of the loot.
People want single player but economies in the games are developed around the fact that people can and should be trading, so that means lower drop rates, higher levels of randomization, just a general less friendly single player experience than if one was directly designed around it.
Path of Exile's crafting for example has so much randomization that it might take hundreds upon hundreds of orbs to gain what you want, but the drop rate on orbs are so low and the vendor recipes so convoluted that it's practically useless to a solo player. But POE is a different game and that's just the way it was built. D3 had no real reason for the AH and it's actively caving in on itself.
Good, fun, playable, enjoyable, engaging.
partyphone
Banned
I don't think there's a fundamental problem with having an auction house. People were going to trade gear regardless. Giving people a secure and easy way to trade is a great idea. Blizzard just did an awful job implementing the thing.
They seem really, really bad at high level decision making. A lot of the little details in the game are great. Character movement and skills feel good but overall level design and boss design range from merely okay to hot garbage. Cut scenes look beautiful but the story is an ugly mess.
They seem really, really bad at high level decision making. A lot of the little details in the game are great. Character movement and skills feel good but overall level design and boss design range from merely okay to hot garbage. Cut scenes look beautiful but the story is an ugly mess.
shysaursoft
Member
They've had economists on hand since the AH launched for WoW.
That's meaningless hyperbole. Explain this "fundamental" way the design is broken?
"Blizzard writes the most amazing stories!", said no-one ever.
Some of the licensed books are pretty good, but yeah the games generally don't have amazing stories. They're always entertaining though.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I like how at the end of the game your cursed waifu turns into diablosaurus and you throw her off a cliff and everyone is like "welp day saved GOOD JOB" and the guy who didn't even get last hit goes to heaven.
old manatee
Banned
The combat in this game was great. Honestly, the RMAH wasn't as big a deal to me as the AH. The AH itself, regardless of RM or gold was a huge blow to the enjoyment of the game. I want to find gear, not buy it off the AH. I know people love trading in these games, but I think it fundamentally ruins the game. Its so fucking stupid that the best way to power up your character is to play the auction house or play the trading forums. Notice that "playing the game" is way less effective than the other two. Once the best way to improve your character is to not play the game, then the game is fundamentally done. Unless you consider the auction house and forum to be the "real" game.
To all those that think the console version without the RMAH is going to make this game good, I think your horribly wrong. The problem is the auction house itself, not the real money aspect.
Literally, the only way to have long term fun in this game is to play ironman.
To all those that think the console version without the RMAH is going to make this game good, I think your horribly wrong. The problem is the auction house itself, not the real money aspect.
Literally, the only way to have long term fun in this game is to play ironman.
lol at people defending this game .... I have almost 400 hrs in, and this game is completely fucked. Hopefully 1.09 helps itemization. Currently the loot drops fucking suck, 99.99% of yellows are complete trash. Half the legendary's are shit. And hey now the economy is fucked up even worse than before (as if that was even possible ....)
Hey at least we got Identify All now!!!
Keep fighting the good fight though.
I can't believe the console version is going to be superior, strange world we live in.
Hey at least we got Identify All now!!!
Keep fighting the good fight though.
I can't believe the console version is going to be superior, strange world we live in.
GoddyofAus
Banned
This has to be one of the biggest trainwreck games in history.
shysaursoft
Member
Something I'm reminded of, is just how cyclical this whole thing feels.
When Diablo 1 hit, a large group loved it, a core group kept playing it until Diablo 2 came out, while the rest dropped it after a few months saying "it got boring."
Diablo 2 comes out, and part of the core group from Diablo 1 said "wow this is crap" and didn't play it. The rest played it, and joined the new group that formed around Diablo 2. Then after a few months, some of that group dropped out saying "it got boring", while a core remained with it until Diablo 3.
Diablo 3 comes out, part of D2's core drops out saying "this is crap", and the ones that do join the new group forming around it. After a while, some of D3's group drop out saying "it got boring", and well, you get the idea.
Working at a cyber-cafe during the D2 era, I heard all the familiar arguments of "it's badly designed" and "the itemization is bad" and that damn "fundamentally broken" statement that's wielded as if it's the Windforce.
This isn't to say D2, D3, etc, didn't/don't have real issues, they did/do. But I can't help chuckle at the weird deja-vu about it all.
A gold bug/dupe is an exploit and a bug, and does not mean the design is *fundamentally* broken. D1 and D2 had plenty of gold/item dupes. You've yet to explain how the design is fundamentally broken. If you want to talk the itemization, then there's that discussion, I agree. But you're not talking about that.
I dunno. The lack of vsync bugged me. If that's in the final, I'd be kind of unimpressed.
When Diablo 1 hit, a large group loved it, a core group kept playing it until Diablo 2 came out, while the rest dropped it after a few months saying "it got boring."
Diablo 2 comes out, and part of the core group from Diablo 1 said "wow this is crap" and didn't play it. The rest played it, and joined the new group that formed around Diablo 2. Then after a few months, some of that group dropped out saying "it got boring", while a core remained with it until Diablo 3.
Diablo 3 comes out, part of D2's core drops out saying "this is crap", and the ones that do join the new group forming around it. After a while, some of D3's group drop out saying "it got boring", and well, you get the idea.
Working at a cyber-cafe during the D2 era, I heard all the familiar arguments of "it's badly designed" and "the itemization is bad" and that damn "fundamentally broken" statement that's wielded as if it's the Windforce.
This isn't to say D2, D3, etc, didn't/don't have real issues, they did/do. But I can't help chuckle at the weird deja-vu about it all.
A gold bug/dupe is an exploit and a bug, and does not mean the design is *fundamentally* broken. D1 and D2 had plenty of gold/item dupes. You've yet to explain how the design is fundamentally broken. If you want to talk the itemization, then there's that discussion, I agree. But you're not talking about that.
I dunno. The lack of vsync bugged me. If that's in the final, I'd be kind of unimpressed.
Lizard with a ladder
learnin' with the blacks!
I know I'm the minority here, but Titan Quest surpassed D2 in every aspect possible.
Oh wow no Vsync on the console D3? That does suck =/
I really hope 1.09 fix's the horrible drops though, it's the only reason I don't play this game. I ll play 8 hours a day and find absolutely nothing worth while. Keep in mind Legendary's drop, but they are shit. And all the yellows are horrible it seems, I just ask myself why the fuck am I playing this? There is literally nothing dropping that is of any use .... so like almost 1 month 1/2 ago I just stopped =(
I really hope 1.09 fix's the horrible drops though, it's the only reason I don't play this game. I ll play 8 hours a day and find absolutely nothing worth while. Keep in mind Legendary's drop, but they are shit. And all the yellows are horrible it seems, I just ask myself why the fuck am I playing this? There is literally nothing dropping that is of any use .... so like almost 1 month 1/2 ago I just stopped =(
shysaursoft
Member
The demo at PAX East didn't have Vsync, and I couldn't get anyone there to confirm for me if the final will. So it might still.
I'm still trying to craft my Hellfire rings (they really need to improve the drop on the Keys, I've yet to actually make an Infernal Machine), so I've still got a loot dragon to chase in addition to just playing the game because I find it fun.
For me its like playing Tetris or Bejewelled or Peggle - I load up an Alkaizer run, push myself a little harder to see if I can do it better, run the danger zone more often to shave off time, and then 15 minutes later salvage all the yellows for mats and exit. It's relaxing, and the game's randomness still manages to throw me into situations I didn't see coming, or don't have a good solution for. I'm not really playing for the loot, not anymore since I'm happy with my WD as he is. I'm playing it because I find the type of experience it presents, fun, and the combat systems are solid enough that I consider the experience balanced and fair, especially after they tweaked damage reflect elites, thank god.
Occasionally, I'll drop down into Nightmare and run through the game entirely on MP0, just to slay things and enjoy that "crunchy" feeling from the combat, mop up a few achievements by accident.
I know having fun is considered taboo, but I can't help myself.
But yes, they do need to implement the item changes they've been talking about, especially with Legendaries to make them, well, Legendary. It'll go a long way towards diversifying builds and giving people more tweak options to the builds they like.
I'm still trying to craft my Hellfire rings (they really need to improve the drop on the Keys, I've yet to actually make an Infernal Machine), so I've still got a loot dragon to chase in addition to just playing the game because I find it fun.
For me its like playing Tetris or Bejewelled or Peggle - I load up an Alkaizer run, push myself a little harder to see if I can do it better, run the danger zone more often to shave off time, and then 15 minutes later salvage all the yellows for mats and exit. It's relaxing, and the game's randomness still manages to throw me into situations I didn't see coming, or don't have a good solution for. I'm not really playing for the loot, not anymore since I'm happy with my WD as he is. I'm playing it because I find the type of experience it presents, fun, and the combat systems are solid enough that I consider the experience balanced and fair, especially after they tweaked damage reflect elites, thank god.
Occasionally, I'll drop down into Nightmare and run through the game entirely on MP0, just to slay things and enjoy that "crunchy" feeling from the combat, mop up a few achievements by accident.
I know having fun is considered taboo, but I can't help myself.
But yes, they do need to implement the item changes they've been talking about, especially with Legendaries to make them, well, Legendary. It'll go a long way towards diversifying builds and giving people more tweak options to the builds they like.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
This sort of thing is overstatement. Diablo 3's isn't terrible. Just disturbingly unremarkable and it was hyped to to levels beyond the impossible.
I approached it not as a hardcore looting player who will grind hundreds of hours to get refined gear, but as a general player of pc action-rpgs, having played games like Titan Quest just prior to D3. D3 is fun but it's a transitory feeling experience. Nothing leaves an impression, it's short of game world content with a haphazard story.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
The only thing I liked about diablo 3 was that when you hit things they go bloom!
That sounds like a win-win, doesn't? Less Loot = Good, Better stat range = Good ?
Standard AH will still exist in Console version? I thought it would have no AH at all...
Fenderputty
Banned
I had a feeling this was going to end up on the main page so a bunch of people who haven't played in 6 months can express their faux outrage.
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