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[krypt0nian]

Wat

Just another of the misogynistic posters here. I miss Dragona.

 

[Neki]

I was about 5'8. The closest I came to exaggerating is that I probably weighed closer to between 135 and 140. I don't see why you consider the claims "extraordinary". I was likely pound for pound the strongest in my school (on bench at least), but the buddies I weight lifted with were all no more than 155 and could all bench about 300 if not just under.

Well he did post the national records for benching at 130lb in high school which was pretty close to 300lbs...unless you're H Nguyen?!

 

[Satyamdas]

You bring up a good point, I'm really confused what tiff is arguing now. How is mixed wrestling different from mixed hockey leagues?

I understand his point, that having boys in a girls sport opens the chance that they will dominate and the girls don't really pose that threat if they participate in boys sports. It's pretty hard to disagree with that if we're talking about sports where strength and physicality play a big role. But allowing one group to be included while the other is excluded is hardly an equitable solution. Equality would be either outright segregation or total integration. What we have is a rough middle ground which is probably the best that can be hoped for, but let's not pretend we're creating an equal outcome for everyone.

 

[arab]

this poor boy was fucked either way. no glory in victory nor humility in defeat! still, he should have accepted the catch-22 and just competed for the sake of equality

 

[Neki]

I understand his point, that having boys in a girls sport opens the chance that they will dominate and the girls don't really pose that threat if they participate in boys sports. It's pretty hard to disagree with that if we're talking about sports where strength and physicality play a big role. But allowing one group to be included while the other is excluded is hardly an equitable solution. Equality would be either outright segregation or total integration. What we have is a rough middle ground which is probably the best that can be hoped for, but let's not pretend we're creating an equal outcome for everyone.

Why would you participate in a sport that you're not going to pose a threat in though?

 

[Satyamdas]

Why would you participate in a sport that you're not going to pose a threat in though?

I mean the threat of completely dominating that sport. Like a heavyweight fighting a bantamweight. If boys who would dominate to that degree are allowed into girls sports, it ruins the integrity of the game. I really don't see the chance of that happening with girls participating in boys sports.

 

[Neki]

Isn't that just reinforcing the notion that boys are much better at sports than girls because they have a much larger chance to be dominating in the opposing gender's league? Saying something like that usually makes people angry though. The idea of creating a rule to protect girls from boys competing in their sports seems to only re-iterate that girl sports need protection against boys but boy sports don't need protection against girls.

 

[Dan Yo]

Well he did post the national records for benching at 130lb in high school which was pretty close to 300lbs...unless you're H Nguyen?!

Those weren't the national records for bench pressing. The 148 pound weight class record bench is more than 30 pounds less than the 132? And 50 pounds less than the next highest weight class?

Not sure what records those are, but they certainly aren't for bench pressing.

Earl Boykins only weighs 130 pounds, is not even a competitive power lifter (he's a basketball player), and benches 315. Not sure exactly why the other guy finds it so amazing. I'm assuming he's considerably larger and perhaps feeling inadequate about not being able to bench that much.

 

[Dude Abides]

I was about 5'8. The closest I came to exaggerating is that I probably weighed closer to between 135 and 140. I don't see why you consider the claims "extraordinary". I was likely pound for pound the strongest in my school (on bench at least), but the buddies I weight lifted with were all no more than 155 and could all bench about 300 if not just under.

Damn, man, your school was full of he-men. You guys must have won state in football, with your line of 5'8" dudes tossing the other line around like ragdolls.

 

[DY_nasty]

Those weren't the national records for bench pressing. The 148 pound weight class record bench is more than 30 pounds less than the 132? And 50 pounds less than the next highest weight class?

Not sure what records those are, but they certainly aren't for bench pressing.

Earl Boykins only weighs 130 pounds, is not even a competitive power lifter (he's a basketball player), and benches 315. Not sure exactly why the other guy finds it so amazing. I'm assuming he's considerably larger and perhaps feeling inadequate about not being able to bench that much.

Earl Boykins didn't just hit puberty. The body of a man who's been training for a significant amount of his life at 130 and the body of a kid still growing into his body at 130 are two very different things.

 

[Dan Yo]

Earl Boykins didn't just hit puberty. The body of a man who's been training for a significant amount of his life at 130 and the body of a kid still growing into his body at 130 are two very different things.

I didn't just hit puberty at 16. I was actually quite built and have been shaving since the age of 13.

 

[Kalnos]

I didn't just hit puberty at 16. I was actually quite built and have been shaving since the age of 13.

There aren't enough smilies in the universe.

 

[Slavik81]

I'm stating that the privileges are there and are unfortunately inherent, I do not agree with them (which is why I think it was fucking retarded this idiot refused to wrestle a girl), but to say that suddenly these 'rights' or 'privileges' are being infringed upon because the unfortunately dominant gender can't play field hockey or whatever is hilarious to me.

THIS TOPIC is about discrimination, men not being able to play field hockey isn't. Plain and simple.

As for your weird sexuality point, sex is for more than just reproduction so it could still be a benefit.

I'm not sure you understand what the word discrimination means. It's not a judgement about whether something is good or bad, or important or unimportant. It's solely a question of whether two things are treated differently.

 

[DY_nasty]

I didn't just hit puberty at 16. I was actually quite built and have been shaving since the age of 13.

Impressive troll. You are to be applauded.

 

[Satyamdas]

Isn't that just reinforcing the notion that boys are much better at sports than girls because they have a much larger chance to be dominating in the opposing gender's league?

I think that notion is pretty well established and acknowledged by most reasonable people. In sports where physical size and strength matters, it is not even up for debate that the vast, vast majority of time men will have the advantage.

Saying something like that usually makes people angry though. The idea of creating a rule to protect girls from boys competing in their sports seems to only re-iterate that girl sports need protection against boys but boy sports don't need protection against girls.

I think most people tacitly accept that girls sports need protection and boys sports don't. Acknowledging the difference in the physiology of the sexes might upset some hyper PC irrational types who refuse to deal with reality, but by and large I think most people don't have a problem admitting that boys are stronger than girls.

And in the case of the boy field hockey player, let's not overlook the fact that he was allowed to play because of Title IX, despite a lot of opposition from parents and opposing coaches.

It's definitely a fuzzy issue and my only qualm is with anyone acting like we are bringing about equality or that discrimination is totally cool so long as those excluded are white, male, religious heterosexuals. Fucking hell man, I can't even type that shit without cracking up.

 

[MWS Natural]

I didn't just hit puberty at 16. I was actually quite built and have been shaving since the age of 13.

You're an idiot. Glad dude called you out on your bullshit forum brag. The average male only MAX benches 160lbs but your skinny 16 year old ass was putting up 315?? GTFO.

 

[ZephyrFate]

No, I did understand the part where you asserted that white men deserve discrimination as some kind of reparations for whatever beef you have. The logic you used in every point you tried to argue is what didn't make sense.
Note: by "didn't make sense", I mean in the "2+2=5" way.


I don't know what offends me more though:

-your overt sexism/racism,
-the ridiculous notion that freedom and equality is a zero-sum game, where everything (no matter how irrelevant) that generally comes with being a certain gender/race is a factor in deciding whether it is okay to discriminate against someone. YOU DO NOT FUCKING KNOW, MUCH LESS APPRECIATE, WHAT DISCRIMINATION MEANS. This is made further aggravating by the pretense that an individual's entire identity and experiences can even come close to being determined solely by their race and/or gender.

if you think I'm sexist or racist, you truly don't have a clue. But that already went for Satyamadas or whatever long ago.

Back to the topic on hand, this dude should have wrestled the girl. End of story.

 

[Bungalow Bob]

I was about 5'8. The closest I came to exaggerating is that I probably weighed closer to between 135 and 140. I don't see why you consider the claims "extraordinary". I was likely pound for pound the strongest in my school (on bench at least), but the buddies I weight lifted with were all no more than 155 and could all bench about 300 if not just under.

Earl Boykins only weighs 130 pounds, is not even a competitive power lifter (he's a basketball player), and benches 315. Not sure exactly why the other guy finds it so amazing. I'm assuming he's considerably larger and perhaps feeling inadequate about not being able to bench that much.

Haha, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia. But only slightly less well known is this: never try to bullshit a strength and conditioning coach with a Doug Young avatar about strength and conditioning. HAHAHAHAHA!!

Since I'm in a generous mood, I'll tell you all the places where you crossed the line with your bullshit:
1) Your age. A man can continue to get stronger and stronger for about 15 years if he trains seriously, so you should've pretended that you were like 30 years old when you were able to bench your made up amount.
2) Your height. It is biomechanically impossible for a scrawny, 130 - 140 pound, 5'8" sophmore to bench that much. You should have said you were 4'8" and built like a brick shithouse.
3) Your athletic focus. You said you were primarily an endurance athlete. FYI, focusing on endurance makes it impossible to even come close to your genetic potential for strength. And since you probably have no clue, sports like basketball and wrestling are far closer to being strength sports than endurance sports. You should've told us you were a weightlifter or powerlifter.

So better luck trolling next time, you incompetent liar. And seeing as I enjoy schadenfreude, I'm going to quote my previous post:

As a sophomore in high school I weighed about 130 pounds, but was able to bench press 315. There was not a single 130 pound sophomore girl that could ever hope to come even close to being that strong. There are probably just a handful of women worldwide at any weight that can put up that.

Let this serve as a lesson to the bullshitters of this forum. If you're going to exaggerate, keep it realistic. Don't, for example, do what this jabroni did and claim to have been an endurance athlete who was stronger than the strongest American powerlifter ever in his age and weight category.

Oh, and Dan, although the girls "couldn't ever hope to come even close to being that strong", I bet they could lie about it just as convincingly as you.

 

[DY_nasty]

 

[Dreams-Visions]

^ LOL. I said, "goddamn!"

How do you come to this ridiculous conclusion? If girls are allowed to compete with boys (they should), then boys should also be allowed to compete with girls (they should). This scenario best exemplifies the gender equality everyone gives so much lip service to. Or is being equal not really that important after all?

out of curiosity (I've been out of this discussion since page one):

when did "gender equality" = athletic parity for physical sports?

Are we suddenly ignoring the natural ability for men to amass more/stronger muscle? The natural athletic disadvantage women have thanks to estrogen?

Women are not able to compete with men in most active sports (all things being equal), which is why we have men's and women's divisions. The separation affords us fair competitions. "Gender equality" was never about pretending the human female's bodily hormones no longer matter. It is and was always about equal access to jobs, equal pay and general fairness in society where men have traditionally let them lag behind.

Are we not all on the same page about this? Just making sure, because this last page reads oddly.

If this young woman's school district were serious about women wrestling, they'd develop a women's wrestling program. Sticking her in with men will more often than not leave her disadvantaged.

 

[Plywood]

 

[JMizzlin]

Probably just didn't want to pop a boner while touching a girl.

 

[Satyamdas]

when did "gender equality" = athletic parity for physical sports?

Are we suddenly ignoring the natural ability for men to amass more/stronger muscle? The natural athletic disadvantage women have thanks to estrogen?

Women are not able to compete with men in most active sports (all things being equal), which is why we have men's and women's divisions. The separation affords us fair competitions. "Gender equality" was never about pretending the human female's bodily hormones no longer matter. It is and was always about equal access to jobs, equal pay and general fairness in society where men have traditionally let them lag behind.

Are we not all on the same page about this? Just making sure, because this last page reads oddly.

If this young woman's school district were serious about women wrestling, they'd develop a women's wrestling program. Sticking her in with men will more often than not leave her disadvantaged.

I agree with all of that. However, gender equality is not limited to those things you mentioned. Look up "gender equality" on wikipedia and you will see Title IX listed as an example of it.

Title IX is almost exclusively meant to allow females to enjoy the benefits of sports programs and education. It's purpose is to prevent exclusion based on a person's sex.

I was replying to a person saying that it's ok to discriminate against men, but not ok to discriminate against women. If we want true equality between the sexes in regards to sports (I don't think we should, but many argue that), then we need total integration or total segregation. Anything less is a compromise on that equality. And in cases where there isn't a team to support the handful of girls who want to wrestle or boys who want to play field hockey, I am ok with a little inequality. Ideally those kinds of decisions wouldn't have to be made, but reality says otherwise.

 

[tiff]

Look, I understand the desire for an equitable outcome where no one is dominated or left out of the sport they wish to play, be it boy or girl. That would be great.

Reality dictates that this is not the case, and so what people do is exclude boys, or provide concessions to girls in order to forge a semblance of this ideal we wish was present in reality already. This solution is not perfectly balanced. As such, the outcome is not equal either. There will be some kid who is excluded from the sport he wants to play, so why is his desire to play less worthy than someone else's? This inherent inequality of the sexes can't be erased by any amount of inclusion or exclusion. Someone will always get screwed.

Discrimination and exclusion for one group and accommodations for another group is not equality in practice, nor does it bring about an equitable outcome. All it provides is the illusion of one. It's just not possible for there to be a solution which is fair to all. All I'm saying is that the word "equal" doesn't really fit in any of these scenarios, because everything we are doing is in acknowledgment of the basic inequality of male and female physiology. It's a crude way to "fix" the discrepancy and while it might be the best we've got, it's not equality in any form or fashion.

Ah, okay. You're right, someone's always going to be left out. I guess what I should say is that the solution isn't really true equality, but seeing as true equality here is impossible due to the general physical differences between boys and girls, my position is the most equitable possible. Some people aren't going to be able to play the sport they want to play, but this is the greatest good for the greatest number.

I think we're just arguing semantics here anyway. We both agree in general that sex restrictions are necessary in the realm of sports, we're just caught up over the word equality, and whether we're talking about pure equality or relative equality.

 

[Satyamdas]

Ah, okay. You're right, someone's always going to be left out. I guess what I should say is that the solution isn't really true equality, but seeing as true equality here is impossible due to the general physical differences between boys and girls, my position is the most equitable possible. Some people aren't going to be able to play the sport they want to play, but this is the greatest good for the greatest number.

I think we're just arguing semantics here anyway. We both agree in general that sex restrictions are necessary in the realm of sports, we're just caught up over the word equality, and whether we're talking about pure equality or relative equality.

Ha, I had actually written that in my previous reply but deleted it because I thought it might look like I was being dismissive of your point. We are on the same page.

 

[Devolution]

If this young woman's school district were serious about women wrestling, they'd develop a women's wrestling program. Sticking her in with men will more often than not leave her disadvantaged.

They're not, she is, she wants to compete. It's like people forgot about what the Bush era did to Title IV. Thankfully the Obama administration repealed that shit.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

They're not, she is, she wants to compete. It's like people forgot about what the Bush era did to Title IV. Thankfully the Obama administration repealed that shit.

Can't say it's been on my front burners, having been removed from competitive sport for damn near a decade. lol. What did it do, exactly?

and yes, it sucks that she wants to compete and has no women's wrestling program to participate in. I'd rather see her and her family push to get a women's wrestling program started and join that rather than see her out there trying to compete with men. She is physiologically predisposed to be less strong, pound for pound. I guess if it's just something she wants to do knowing that she'll lose most of the time, then w/e. The guys that have to wrestle her should be briefed in advance and told that it's totally okay to fucking terminate her.

 

[Amakusa]

Yeah, I would have got a boner.....
I approve of this forfeit

 

[Devolution]

Can't say it's been on my front burners, having been removed from competitive sport for damn near a decade. lol. What did it do, exactly?

and yes, it sucks that she wants to compete and has no women's wrestling program to participate in. I'd rather see her and her family push to get a women's wrestling program started and join that rather than see her out there trying to compete with men. She is physiologically predisposed to be less strong, pound for pound. I guess if it's just something she wants to do knowing that she'll lose most of the time, then w/e. The guys that have to wrestle her should be briefed in advance and told that it's totally okay to fucking terminate her.

Link

Basically a school could get away with not providing sports for interested girls.

 

[Kapura]

Somebody at my university got wind of the story and posted a long rant essentially calling the boy an ignoramus and calling everybody who supports his decision (or even respects it) stupid. It's pretty long, so I won't copy it all here unless somebody asks for the full thing. Here is a choice quotation though:

What's REALLY eating at me is that there's not a lot of men, even women (!!!), who don't see that much of a problem with this, at least not nearly as many as I would think. No, sooooo many people basically have the follow low-brow views:

1) well, it's against his faith, I respect him to holding to his faith.

Translation: HERP DERP-DY DERRRRRP

 

[ZephyrFate]

Funny enough I am totally fine with the way he worded that.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Yeah, I would have got a boner.....
I approve of this forfeit

Rolling around with a girl with the body of a 14 year old boy would give you a boner?



Damn ..

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Link

Basically a school could get away with not providing sports for interested girls.

oic

ugh.

 

[sprsk]

Rolling around with a girl with the body of a 14 year old boy would give you a boner?



Damn ..

I mean, if I was 14 yeah, I probably had a boner before it even started.

 

[Dresden]

Rolling around with a girl with the body of a 14 year old boy would give you a boner?



Damn ..

At 14, I think I got boners just looking at the wall.

 

[Luixfern]

At 14, I think I got boners just looking at the wall.

I still do. I have epic sex drive, they call me Ferrari.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Crap, just realized this girl is my best friend's fiancée's cousin. Crazy.

 

[thoughthorizon]

I bet she would have beat him.

Not a chance: he has the power of FAITH to strengthen him!

 

[Dabanton]

.

 

[Dead Man]

.

Why would you do that?

 

[Tapiozona]

Haha, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia. But only slightly less well known is this: never try to bullshit a strength and conditioning coach with a Doug Young avatar about strength and conditioning. HAHAHAHAHA!!

Since I'm in a generous mood, I'll tell you all the places where you crossed the line with your bullshit:
1) Your age. A man can continue to get stronger and stronger for about 15 years if he trains seriously, so you should've pretended that you were like 30 years old when you were able to bench your made up amount.
2) Your height. It is biomechanically impossible for a scrawny, 130 - 140 pound, 5'8" sophmore to bench that much. You should have said you were 4'8" and built like a brick shithouse.
3) Your athletic focus. You said you were primarily an endurance athlete. FYI, focusing on endurance makes it impossible to even come close to your genetic potential for strength. And since you probably have no clue, sports like basketball and wrestling are far closer to being strength sports than endurance sports. You should've told us you were a weightlifter or powerlifter.

So better luck trolling next time, you incompetent liar. And seeing as I enjoy schadenfreude, I'm going to quote my previous post:

I don't really have anything to add to this thread. I just wanted to quote this amazing post so even more people can witness the complete and utter pimp slap backhand he laid upon Dan Yo.