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[Kevtones]

Twin Peaks < LOST < Stasis

 

[Zen]

1. I thought MIB TOLD Jacob that he made up the rules. I'm almost positive...! If he did, and I think he did... there's your answer.

The dude has been on the island for thousands of years, he has fought many a forces, I don't think it's too far fetched that he can acquire the knowledge (he can scan people remember) to build a bomb.

He has all of Locke's memories and Locke knew pretty much everything about anything.

 

[StuBurns]

Bad reveal? I don't know what you're talking about. There's nothing classier than blowing out old footage and putting a Vaseline filter on it, then cutting to it repeatedly to hammer a message through (what the writers must presume to be) the audience's collective inch thick cro magnon skull.

Indeed, this bit was the worst, they already had that horrific, didactic scene earlier in the season with Jack and Hurley, I thought the point of that awful crap was to avoid it when they do tell us who they were, but no, they made it even worse.

Anyone who cares about Lost would have known without any direct reference at all.

 

[fireside]

You bout to cross some lines, son.

I love Giacchino's score as much as anyone but I just can't help but roll my eyes when his score is used so ham handedly. Like in tonight's episode when Norma Bates brings Claudia to the caves. It was just silly.

 

[duckroll]

Well I thought it was an ok episode but I do have more questions which probably won't be answered in the last few episodes. Who is that woman who killed their real mother? Where did the Egyptian statue come from?

The woman is MysteriousWomanWithNoName. The Egyptian statue came from Egyptians.

 

[ZeoVGM]

http://www.realtvaddict.com/2010/05/11/lost-thoughts-across-the-sea/

Yeah, I'll agree with this. It was a good -- maybe great -- episode when looked at as just an episode of the series. I liked the story, it was nice finding out their pasts and who Adam and Eve are. The story itself wasn't "retarded" like someone said here. It was just the lack of explanation behind the rules, MIB's name, more info on the light, etc. are very worrying and put a damper on the episode.

If this were at the beginning of the season, I think it would be fine as we would then be able to say, "okay well they're developing more of the story and should explain this and this as the season progresses". But with 3 1/2 hours left, it's easy to have doubts.

 

[Linkhero1]

The woman is MysteriousWomanWithNoName. The Egyptian statue came from Egyptians.

That explains a lot.

 

[Lakitu]

Yes, clearly the biggest concern and disappointment is that for an episode so close to the end, the more obvious stuff didn't get answered. Or some did, in the most vague way possible. They have 3 and a half more hours to answer everything, can they?

 

[Panda Bear]

At least they haven't ruined Desmond for me. He's still as much of a boss as he was in Man of Science, Man of Faith. If anything can redeem these last few hours, it's him.

 

[Mifune]

To be honest, I barely remembered those skeletons in the cave, and I just rewatched Season One. So I don't think the S1 flashforwards were a terrible idea.

I question the logic of revealing their identities in the first place, though. I mean, I understand Adam and Eve are on some shit-LOST-needs-to-answer list somewhere, but was such a grandiose display of ANSWERING QUESTIONS really necessary? It felt like fan service.

 

[StuBurns]

To be honest, I barely remembered those skeletons in the cave, and I just rewatched Season One. So I don't think the S1 flashforwards were a terrible idea.

I question the logic of revealing their identities in the first place, though. I mean, I understand Adam and Eve are on some shit-LOST-needs-to-answer list somewhere, but was such a grandiose display of ANSWERING QUESTIONS really necessary? It felt like fan service.

But they just showed Adam and Eve like two months ago. If it hadn't been mentioned since season one, fair enough, but they've already refreshed the audience to the mystery.

 

[fireside]

At least they haven't ruined Desmond for me. He's still as much of a boss as he was in Man of Science, Man of Faith. If anything can redeem these last few hours, it's him.

Well, we still have three and a half hours. Plenty of time to ruin Desmond.

 

[Jex]

I hope we get a long, two hour flashback to Caprica. Maybe with some pigeons.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

http://www.realtvaddict.com/2010/05/11/lost-thoughts-across-the-sea/

Yeah, I'll agree with this. It was a good -- maybe great -- episode when looked at as just an episode of the series. I liked the story, it was nice finding out their pasts and who Adam and Eve are. The story itself wasn't "retarded" like someone said here. It was just the lack of explanation behind the rules, MIB's name, more info on the light, etc. are very worrying and put a damper on the episode.

If this were at the beginning of the season, I think it would be fine as we would then be able to say, "okay well they're developing more of the story and should explain this and this as the season progresses". But with 3 1/2 hours left, it's easy to have doubts.

EXACTLY! Should've been the fourth or so episode of the season. Good episode but a SHITTY EPISODE at this time of the season especially when they were on a 2 week haitus!

 

[ZeoVGM]

To be honest, I barely remembered those skeletons in the cave, and I just rewatched Season One. So I don't think the S1 flashforwards were a terrible idea.

I question the logic of revealing their identities in the first place, though. I mean, I understand Adam and Eve are on some shit-LOST-needs-to-answer list somewhere, but was such a grandiose display of ANSWERING QUESTIONS really necessary? It felt like fan service.

Well there you go, that's the problem. If they didn't answer it, tons of people would be pissed. If they did, people would complain about how it was answered (really, how many ways can you answer that, no matter who it was).

At least they haven't ruined Desmond for me. He's still as much of a boss as he was in Man of Science, Man of Faith. If anything can redeem these last few hours, it's him.

I don't feel there's a need to "redeem" anything. Last weeks episode was amazingly great. I just hope this episode was more of a set up for the last 3 1/2 hours so that answers we get will make sense in relation to what we saw tonight.

Until the show is over, I won't say they fucked up. Because for most of this 6-year long saga, they've done a great job.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Lots and lots of people, evidently. Furthermore if they had actually planned stuff out, maybe the writing wouldn't be so appalling in this season.

You should take a look at Battlestar Galactica. They literally made that up as they went along but people still defend it despite it being completely shit at the end.

I liked this episode and people should relax...

 

[TheLastFantasy]

So I wanna discuss a few things. (I just came in so I don't know if they had already been discussed before):

1) How come was Jacob able to kill MIB? Isn't it against the rules?
2) So now MIB is dead but he's taking the form of himself. Is he still MIB, or is it the new Smoke entity taking form of MIB and acquiring his memories?
3) How did Lostpedia establish that Jacob&MIB were born 23 AD? I don't think it was mentioned.
4) How come Claudia/Jacob/MIB/Mother were all able to speak fluent modern English in 23 AD?


Something I liked: MIB used to dig around the island looking for the source of the "light" and maybe that's what made him "special" like Desmond, both having had a prolonged exposure to electromagnetism.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

The Egyptian statue came from Egyptians.

Well yeah, but it's so much deeper. The statue was actually hollow, which is why the Black Rock was able to smash it to pieces, whereupon the polar bears hitherto encased within its stony walls were unleashed onto the island

Spoiler

(which is where Dharma really captured them!!)

. Also, they can turn into horsies at will, which explains the whole thing with Kate. You've got to hand it to the writers, they obviously knew what the deal was all along, what with how perfectly everything fit together.

Anyone who cares about Lost would have known without any direct reference at all.

And for anyone who didn't catch on immediately it would have been that much more satisfying to piece together on subsequent viewings.

 

[StuBurns]

So I wanna discuss a few things. (I just came in so I don't know if they had already been discussed before):

1) How come was Jacob able to kill MIB? Isn't it against the rules?
2) So now MIB is dead but he's taking the form of himself. Is he still MIB, or is it the new Smoke entity taking form of MIB and acquiring his memories?
3) How did Lostpedia establish that Jacob&MIB were born 23 AD? I don't think it was mentioned.
4) How come Claudia/Jacob/MIB/Mother were all able to speak fluent modern English in 23 AD?


Something I liked: MIB used to dig around the island looking for the source of the "light" and maybe that's what made him "special" like Desmond, both having had a prolonged exposure to electromagnetism.

1) I don't think he did kill him. He turned him into a smoke monster, then his useless body was discarded.

 

[duckroll]

Well there you go, that's the problem. If they didn't answer it, tons of people would be pissed. If they did, people would complain about how it was answered (really, how many ways can you answer that, no matter who it was).

They could have left it as Rose and Bernard who decided to stay in Dharma times and accepted the island as their home. I think that answer satisfies a lot more people than the current answer. The Adam and Eve mystery was never a major mystery to either the characters or most of the audience. It was just a curiosity. I really liked the idea that it could be Rose and Bernard as suggested in Season 5.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

So I wanna discuss a few things. (I just came in so I don't know if they had already been discussed before):

1) How come was Jacob able to kill MIB? Isn't it against the rules?
2) So now MIB is dead but he's taking the form of himself. Is he still MIB, or is it the new Smoke entity taking form of MIB and acquiring his memories?
3) How did Lostpedia establish that Jacob&MIB were born 23 AD? I don't think it was mentioned.
4) How come Claudia/Jacob/MIB/Mother were all able to speak fluent modern English in 23 AD?


Something I liked: MIB used to dig around the island looking for the source of the "light" and maybe that's what made him "special" like Desmond, both having had a prolonged exposure to electromagnetism.

1) I think the knock to the head knocked him out and he suffered a fate worse than death a minute later.

4) They weren't, it was just for our convenience. We all know how much Americans hate having to read subtitles.

 

[Jex]

4) They weren't, it was just for our convenience. We all know how much Americans hate having to read subtitles.

Plus their Latin accent was terrible.

 

[duckroll]

4) They weren't, it was just for our convenience. We all know how much Americans hate having to read subtitles.

That's not the only thing. The kids were bad enough actors as it is, would anyone really want to see them do those same scenes AND try to speak a foreign language they obviously don't know? :lol

Plus their Latin accent was terrible.

See!!!

 

[StuBurns]

They could have left it as Rose and Bernard who decided to stay in Dharma times and accepted the island as their home. I think that answer satisfies a lot more people than the current answer. The Adam and Eve mystery was never a major mystery to either the characters or most of the audience. It was just a curiosity. I really liked the idea that it could be Rose and Bernard as suggested in Season 5.

I might be remembering incorrectly, but didn't Darlton say there was a hidden anagram in an episode and it turned out to be something like "The Cave belongs to the Nadler's"?

 

[Zen]

To be honest, I barely remembered those skeletons in the cave, and I just rewatched Season One. So I don't think the S1 flashforwards were a terrible idea.

I question the logic of revealing their identities in the first place, though. I mean, I understand Adam and Eve are on some shit-LOST-needs-to-answer list somewhere, but was such a grandiose display of ANSWERING QUESTIONS really necessary? It felt like fan service.

The really sad thing about this episode, is that with the amount of time there is left, they spent 60 minutes ignoring almost everything else in the series and only answered that one question that nobody really cares about. They flat out put up lead ins to answering other questions, that the characters outright asked only to give purposeful non answers.

No, we probably aren't going to learn about the 'rules' or how it all started, yadda yadda, which makes this episode even more annoying, because they re-raised those questions only to basically say 'no we aren't answering these questions, haha' to our faces.

They spent 60 minutes bringing up and then deliberately not answering questions when they could have spent the episode either focusing on the things that are currently happening or choose to actually answer the questions they raised.

Instead we wasted 60 minutes on shit we pretty much already knew, just to see that Adam and Eve are whatshernamelady and MIB.

Woopty fucking do. The fact that the characters had such terrible dialogue and they decompressed every... exchange... of... dialogue... in... the... episode, just made things even dumber.

 

[ZeoVGM]

They could have left it as Rose and Bernard who decided to stay in Dharma times and accepted the island as their home. I think that answer satisfies a lot more people than the current answer. The Adam and Eve mystery was never a major mystery to either the characters or most of the audience. It was just a curiosity. I really liked the idea that it could be Rose and Bernard as suggested in Season 5.

The problem is that The Incident ruined the possibility of it by not having it be "everyone near the nuke gets teleported back" as Sayid and Hurley went back. Rose and Bernard should have teleported back as well.

I would assume that means we'll see them on the island in the finale or next week since we now know they're not Adam and Eve. (Hope so, at least. Would be nice to see bearded Bernard again.)

 

[duckroll]

I might be remembering incorrectly, but didn't Darlton say there was a hidden anagram in an episode and it turned out to be something like "The Cave belongs to the Nadler's"?

I don't know and honestly I'm sick of thinking of "what Dalton said" anymore because that just makes me more annoyed at the show. They also once said "the volcano is important, but not as important as Annie." Yeah wow, Annie, totally saw her again. Amirite.

The problem is that The Incident ruined the possibility of it by not having it be "everyone near the nuke gets teleported back" as Sayid and Hurley went back. Rose and Bernard should have teleported back as well.

Unless the island respects their wishes and left them there. Just like how the island respected Jin's wishes that Sun would not be brought back, so she didn't go back in time with the rest of the Oceanic Six. They have no problems rewriting rules to suit the story, so it's not a problem at all.

 

[Lakitu]

I really think this season would have benefited by being the length the first three seasons were. It seems to be slower paced than both Season 4 and Season 5.

 

[fireside]

They could have left it as Rose and Bernard who decided to stay in Dharma times and accepted the island as their home. I think that answer satisfies a lot more people than the current answer. The Adam and Eve mystery was never a major mystery to either the characters or most of the audience. It was just a curiosity. I really liked the idea that it could be Rose and Bernard as suggested in Season 5.

Unfortunately Darlton wanted to be Deep so they had Hurley make fun of that theory early this season.

 

[Spotless Mind]

I'm watching now. This episode has some of the worst dialogue i have ever heard. Holy shit is it bad and the delivery is stilted as hell. I'm embarrassed for Allison Janney having to recite this garbage and can't blame her for phoning in her performance.

 

[Zen]

In fact, taking into account the terrible dialogue, cinematography, story, and taking into account the episode within the larger context of the show, I think this is the worst episode of Lost ever. Even if we weren't near the end, this episode is pretty far down the list for me.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I really think this season would have benefited by being the length the first three seasons were. It seems to be slower paced than both Season 4 and Season 5.

I don't think this season is slow-paced at all and that's the problem. It should have been slower paced like with season 1. Give Jacob/MIB two episodes, one to explain their pasts and one to dive deep into the mythos answers. Give Mrs. Artz and Lapidus flashbacks early on just to simply flesh out their characters more. Give Claire a flashback too.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Just let it go... People are getting so wound up about it. There's some kind of mysterious energy under the island (established in previous seasons) and two opposing forces (established in previous seasons).

There will never be a satisfactory answer to unknowable questions but the writers felt obliged to offer you one which is why you get an episode of exposition. Just suspend your disbelief and enjoy the ride.

 

[duckroll]

In fact, taking into account the terrible dialogue, cinematography, story, and taking into account the episode within the larger context of the show, I think this is the worst episode of Lost ever. Even if we weren't near the end, this episode is pretty far down the list for me.

No. Stranger in a Strange Land is worse. It has Bai Ling. Nothing will ever come close to how bad that episode was.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

look at all the haters coming out of the woodworks :lol

Hilarious

It was a good episode

 

[duckroll]

look at all the haters coming out of the woodworks :lol

Hilarious

It was a good episode

Wow look at this dumbass post by a dumbass :lol

Hilarious

It was a bad episode

 

[Zen]

No. Stranger in a Strange Land is worse. It has Bai Ling. Nothing will ever come close to how bad that episode was.

What happened in that episode again?

Ok, so, 2nd worst episode maybe? :lol

 

[Lakitu]

In fact, taking into account the terrible dialogue, cinematography, story, and taking into account the episode within the larger context of the show, I think this is the worst episode of Lost ever. Even if we weren't near the end, this episode is pretty far down the list for me.

From a standalone point of view, I can name at least 10 episodes that is worse than this one.

 

[duckroll]

From a standalone point of view, I can name at least 10 episodes that is worse than this one.

Those are all Kate episodes too. Except for Stranger in a Strange Land.

 

[StuBurns]

look at all the haters coming out of the woodworks :lol

Hilarious

It was a good episode

I'm pretty sure most the posters are the same posters as ever.

One week rain praise on the mastery of Alpert's episode, one week rag on the mediocrity that was last night.

EDIT: The worst episode of Lost, is as always, Fire + Water.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Spotless Mind is here! Now the fun can really start!

 

[duckroll]

I'm pretty sure most the posters are the same posters as ever.

One week rain praise on the mastery of Alpert's episode, one week rag on the mediocrity that was last night.

I didn't like either, and I didn't really like last week's episode either, so I'm definitely a "hater", but I'm definitely not coming out of the woodworks, since I've always been here! Rooting for more shirtless Sawyer next week, fuck yeah!

 

[fireside]

I really think this season would have benefited by being the length the first three seasons were. It seems to be slower paced than both Season 4 and Season 5.

I honestly can't remember what most the episodes this season were for.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

I kept waiting for Allison Janney to break out The Jackal.

Just finished watching it and my mind is blown. I'm sure these my thoughts have already been debunked in this thread but let me try to summarize what I think happened:

MIB is dead. He looked dead before Jacob threw him into the light cave. The fact that Jacob found his body and 'buried' it next to his dead mother also leads me to believe that MIB is dead. The fact that many years later, Jack, Kate and Locke find the bones of MIB and his mother, i.e. the islands 'Adam and Eve'.. also leads me to be believe that MIB is dead.

So what the fuck is the smoke monster?

Whatever it is, it was released by MIB when Jacob threw him into the light. The smoke monster absorbed the consciousness, thoughts, and appearance of someone who was dead (MIB), just like has been explained throughout the season. Smokey has to play by the same rules as MIB because those are the rules of the island. The rules set up by Jacob and MIB's mother. So why is it then that we see MIB and Jacob having these conversations down by the sea, next to the statue?.. well I guess that has to be smokey, who has taken on the appearance of MIB because its the only dead human that smokey has come in contact with since he was released from the light cave.

Yeah, this went through my mind, too. Smokey could be an entity that was living in the cave for eons which latched onto the identity of Jacob's brother to allow it to take corporeal form. Jacob's brother could be truly dead, and all that's left could be that entity. But, as has been seen throughout this season, Smokey talks as if he's Jacob's brother and has his motivations and memories - getting off the island, crazy mother, seeing the Ghost of Child Jacob and telling him that the rules won't stop him - with others and alone, and there does seem to be emotion there.

So, it's likely that when Jacob's brother entered the cave he gained the power to be Smokey and left his human body behind - and it fits with how he cannot be hurt at all now (he was immortal before, but not invulnerable). Or, it could be the long con of an entity which pretends that the first consciousness it nabbed is its original one to humanize itself for others - the wanting to get off the island thing could be something shared between it and Jacob's brother.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Your personal opinion is not a statement of fact. One person's good is another person's bad... Oh look! This ties neatly into the Jacob vs MIB thing.

 

[duckroll]

I kept waiting for Allison Janney to break out The Jackal.



Yeah, this went through my mind, too. Smokey could be an entity that was living in the cave for eons which latched onto the identity of Jacob's brother to allow it to take corporeal form. Jacob's brother could be truly dead, and all that's left could be that entity. But, as has been seen throughout this season, Smokey talks as if he's Jacob's brother and has his motivations and memories - getting off the island, crazy mother, seeing the Ghost of Child Jacob and telling him that the rules won't stop him - with others and alone, and there does seem to be emotion there.

So, it's more likely that when Jacob's brother entered the cave he gained the power to be Smokey and left his human body behind - and it fits with how he cannot be hurt at all now (he was immortal before, but not invulnerable).

MIB also said very specifically to Richard that Jacob took his body. It would be logical to assume that he refers to how Jacob threw him down the hole and turned him into the smoke monster. He has no body now, probably not because he discarded it but because he was just ripped from his body into some electromagnetic entity. It is "worse than dying".

 

[StuBurns]

I didn't like either, and I didn't really like last week's episode either, so I'm definitely a "hater", but I'm definitely not coming out of the woodworks, since I've always been here! Rooting for more shirtless Sawyer next week, fuck yeah!

Oh man, you're scum, you come out the woodwork every single week, most days in fact.

The thing is, people are deeply invested now, even if someone hates every single episode this season, their opinion is still totally valid, and haters should be as welcome as anyone. After six years, people have a right to be pissed and to complain about it. I think this season has been better than last year for the most part, but it's not all I wanted it to be so far. Maybe it'll all come together next week.

 

[Lakitu]

A lot of people seem to be slating Alison Janney's performance, but they should keep in mind, she filmed this in between a very busy schedule and didn't have much time to prepare.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Janney's performance was very good. Not quite understanding any hate there.

 

[duckroll]

I feel kinda bad for Alison Janney. I really like her work on West Wing.

Janney's performance was very good. Not quite understanding any hate there.

I don't think it was bad, but it wasn't much to write home about honestly. Titus Welliver stole the show this episode. he really did a great job, especially in the scene where he asked Jacob "why do you keep watching us?". I really like his delivery of lines and body language.