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[RichardAM]

Are we ready to go across the sea yet? The ship's leaving the port in 12 hours or so! Hype!

But, I wanted to take the sub.

 

[soul creator]

that Locke guy likes blowing up subs for some reason. He's done it twice now!

 

[Zeliard]

Locke is racist against water, clearly.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I have a small issue with how godlike Jacob seems. Him dying only seems to be a minor obstacle from a practical standpoint since he can just come back as a ghost and give Hurley orders whenever he wants. And he seemed to be expecting his death.

It's funny that MIB is a virtually invulnerable guy who can scan people's minds and shapeshift into a smoke monster at will, yet he seems a lot more grounded and "real" to me as a character than Jacob.

Jacob just floats above it all and seems to know how everything will plan out - outside of the way he looks and talks, nothing about him feels human. MIB's emotions and actions meanwhile have basically run the whole gamut of human expression. Hopefully tonight's episode grounds Jacob a little bit, since I think it's very unlikely that these two guys aren't simply humans.

Well, Jacob feels more like a spiritual guide, someone who is above of human feelings, probably he must, because he could be manipulable by MiB if that wasn't the case, you are human, you have desires, weakness, if you have to be with someone who is pure evil during hundred of years easily he would appeal to those feelings, the other side of the balance, no matter how strong you are, and well everything will be fucked up.

And while he was expecting death, I think he always wanted to the people to choose their own destiny, even if people are tied to some events, it's always their choose, maybe he was expecting having Ben with a knive in his hand about to kill him, but not dying....

 

[Cheech]

John McCain = MiB's father, confirmed

I can't imagine MiB's name being anything other than Esau. They probably kept it under wraps so long just to give him more mystique.

Then again, they seem to have gotten away from Biblical references, and more towards the Dante/philosophy angle.

I would bet my left nut we'll find out tonight, though. I caught a random snippet of tonight's show (not in the ABC promo) on some TV show last night, and tonight's show is going to be super sweet. This one, combined with Ab Aeterno, are the shows the mythology hounds are going to dig.

 

[JGS]

I have no time to read this whole thread but holy shit, I just watched the last episode and I'm starting to get fed up with Lost. The writing was wretched this season. Main Characters dying does NOT = great episode. Having invested years into these characters their deaths felt so unspectacular.

What was the point of Sayid going evil if he's just gonna randomly sacrifice himself?

What's the point of Jin dying when they have a kid? Urgh, the whoel scene reminded me of Titanic.


Oh, and going to the airplane and then the sub was a little TOO easy for everyone, seemed quite lame.

The more I think about it, the more the deaths don't even have that big of an impact beyond the power in the actual episodes.

We will probably be seeing Sun & Jin and it's the final season so deaths of major characters, which happened throughout it's run, should definitely be expected. We aren't going to be investing anymore time with these characters beyond the next few weeks. One of the things I like about LOST is the unspectacular deaths are couple with some pretty big emotional impact and this episode was no exception to that.

 

[Zeliard]

Well, Jacob feels more like a spiritual guide, someone who is above of human feelings, probably he must, because he could be manipulable by MiB if that wasn't the case, you are human, you have desires, weakness, if you have to be with someone who is pure evil during hundred of years easily he would appeal to those feelings, the other side of the balance, no matter how strong you are, and well everything will be fucked up.

And while he was expecting death, I think he always wanted to the people to choose their own destiny, even if people are tied to some events, it's always their choose, maybe he was expecting having Ben with a knive in his hand about to kill him, but not dying....

Well, one thing they did to humanize Jacob was to note (via Miles?) that the final thoughts running through Jacob's head were a hope that Ben wouldn't follow through. I want them to do more of that sort of thing with the character. They don't need to make him curl up in a fetal position and cry, but I'd like to see more varied emotions out of the guy.

I thought it was awesome and striking when Jacob beat the shit out of Alpert and did so in an angry manner. It's something we hadn't seen from the guy before and I think it makes him a much more grounded and relatable character. As relatable as guys like Jacob and MIB could possibly be, of course.

 

[Dead]

I can't imagine MiB's name being anything other than Esau. They probably kept it under wraps so long just to give him more mystique.

Then again, they seem to have gotten away from Biblical references, and more towards the Dante/philosophy angle.

I would bet my left nut we'll find out tonight, though. I caught a random snippet of tonight's show (not in the ABC promo) on some TV show last night, and tonight's show is going to be super sweet. This one, combined with Ab Aeterno, are the shows the mythology hounds are going to dig.

His name wont be Esau. Too obvious for something theyve held back for so long now.

Theres only one reason why they wouldnt have told his name by now. Its that his name is that of some we knew/know. I can feel that is what will happen.

I doubt we will even get his name tonight.

 

[Zeliard]

His name wont be Esau.

Theres only one reason why they wouldnt have told his name by now. Its that his name is that of some we knew/know.

I doubt we will even get his name tonight.

I both agree and disagree. His name is almost certainly someone we know, but I'm also sure we'll get it tonight. Not only is tonight heavily rumored to be the biggest myth-answering episode of the series, but it's also Jacob/MIB-centric (obviously this isn't a coincidence )

It would be strange if we don't get the guy's name tonight. There's no other episode more perfectly suited for it. I'm sure it's a huge reveal but it doesn't require waiting until the series finale to show.

 

[Dead]

If his name is someone we know, then that is possibly a HUGE gamechanger/twist

It'd be so huge that in fact I dont think they will reveal it until the finale. I mean, theyve come this far without revealing it. I don't think they would reveal it 2 episodes prior to the finale.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

Esau is a stupid name. I'm still betting on it being Christian Shepard, if anyone.

 

[BigFwoosh]

If his name is someone we know, then that is possibly a HUGE gamechanger/twist

It'd be so huge that in fact I dont think they will reveal it until the finale. I mean, theyve come this far without revealing it. I don't think they would reveal it 2 episodes prior to the finale.

It must be WAAAAAAAAAAALT

Think about it, he is the Man in Black.

 

[thestopsign]

Wait a minute, is tonight the finale?

 

[Keyser Soze]

Still going with Wallace for MIB

 

[Zeliard]

If his name is someone we know, then that is possibly a HUGE gamechanger/twist

It'd be so huge that in fact I dont think they will reveal it until the finale. I mean, theyve come this far without revealing it. I don't think they would reveal it 2 episodes prior to the finale.

The finale is likely to deal with the fallout from MIB's actions. They don't need to wait until then to reveal who he is. In fact, it would add far more weight to what he's doing and to the stakes the finale will hold if we know exactly who he is before then. That's what will build the suspense leading up to the last episode.

 

[Desiato]

I'm going with Bernard.

LOST

 

[Chipopo]

yep

 

[Keyser Soze]

Wait a minute, is tonight the finale?

No, May 23, 2 hours 30 minutes long

 

[Dead]

what if the finale was 108 minutes long

 

[gdt]

People are saying Esau is too obvious..but I still don't know who Esau is!

 

[Dead]

People are saying Esau is too obvious..but I still don't know who Esau is!

Jacobs brother in the Bible

 

[Zeliard]

I will literally laugh if it's Esau. Not because of that reveal, necessarily, but because it was guessed at almost instantly by fans.

 

[soul creator]

It must be WAAAAAAAAAAALT

Think about it, he is the Man in Black.

more like the Black in Man amirite

 

[Keyser Soze]

I now want MIB's name to be Apollo

...I just noticed Lindo's :lol :lol

 

[Zeliard]

 

[gdt]

Jacobs brother in the Bible

Cool.

Now who's Jacob in the Bible :lol ?

 

[neoism]

Dear god, Evangeline was goddamn STUNNING on Letterman last night.

god yes...


(every dat ass pic)

 

[neoism]

 

[Keyser Soze]

Screw it, I am buying some Apollo Bars... even if I cannot eat them. I want to look at it!!!

 

[JGS]

Cool.

Now who's Jacob in the Bible :lol ?

Jacob was a grandson of Abraham, the de facto founder of 3 religious groups . Jacob himself was promised big things too. I think his name was even changed to Israel but I may be remebering that wrong.

However, in conection to the LOST theories, Jacob and Esau are twins and at birth they were prophecied to have a dislike for each other with Esau being the primary instigator.

This came to a head when Esau, who was starving after a hard days work traded his birthright for a bowl of soup and God allowed it to happen. Esau had buyers remorse & was bitter and years later sought revenge, but his brother was so doggone nice and loveable they wound up making up before the big battle.

The story itself is kind of similar to MIB and Jacob in that Jacob isn't necessarily trying to kill Smokey, but Smokey is trying to kill Jacob (& succeeded) while thy wrestle for control/leadership.

However, the very basic reason is simply that Jacob and Smokey could be brothers that have an animosity toward each other.

Bible School dismissed.

 

[Kurtofan]

wait no nevermind

 

[Zeliard]

Jacob was a grandson of Abraham, the de facto founder of 3 religious groups . Jacob himself was promised big things too. I think his name was even changed to Israel but I may be remebering that wrong.

However, in conection to the LOST theories, Jacob and Esau are twins and at birth they were prophecied to have a dislike for each other with Esau being the primary instigator.

This came to a head when Esau, who was starving after a hard days work traded his birthright for a bowl of soup and God allowed it to happen. Esau had buyers remorse & was bitter and years later sought revenge, but his brother was so doggone nice and loveable they wound up making up before the big battle.

The story itself is kind of similar to MIB and Jacob in that Jacob isn't necessarily trying to kill Smokey, but Smokey is trying to kill Jacob (& succeeded) while thy wrestle for control/leadership.

However, the very basic reason is simply that Jacob and Smokey could be brothers that have an animosity toward each other.

Bible School dismissed.

Isn't there also something in that story about the mother preferring Jacob to Esau? I'm not very familiar with the whole story but I thought I read that somewhere.

 

[Keyser Soze]

It still amuses me that these are in my press

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Screw it, I am buying some Apollo Bars... even if I cannot eat them. I want to look at it!!!

you can go to the gas station or a vending machine like a museum. don't have to buy.

 

[JGS]

Isn't there also something in that story about the mother preferring Jacob to Esau? I'm not very familiar with the whole story but I thought I read that somewhere.

Yes, she helps him trick his dad, Isaac, who was pretty much blind to actually give him the birthright.

It was a two step process. Esau gave it up, but dad, who favored his hunter son not his pansy sheep herder son, had to sign off on the idea too.

God could have stepped in at anytime and said nope, ain't going to happen but allowed all of it. So God favored Jacob too. Of course he would since he's the one who said Esau was bad news at birth!

So Esau would be a great name for Smokey.

 

[Keyser Soze]

you can go to the gas station or a vending machine like a museum. don't have to buy.

I have no idea what you mean, but there is no real Apollo bars over in Ireland, or in Europe as a whole. So, if I wanted to see one I would have to buy from the US/Canada. I did not think it was even a real bar, and guessed you could only buy some of the left over stock from The Lost Experience

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

It still amuses me that these are in my press

 

[Keyser Soze]

 

[Jocchan]

I think I remember Michael Emerson dismissing the rumors about MIB's name being Esau by saying the biblical references in Lost are usually a bit subtler than that.
I have no idea how much he knew at the time, though.

 

[Zeliard]

Yes, she helps him trick his dad, Isaac, who was pretty much blind to actually give him the birthright.

It was a two step process. Esau gave it up, but dad, who favored his hunter son not his pansy sheep herder son, had to sign off on the idea too.

God could have stepped in at anytime and said nope, ain't going to happen but allowed all of it. So God favored Jacob too. Of course he would since he's the one who said Esau was bad news at birth!

So Esau would be a great name for Smokey.

I would be perfectly okay with it, but I actually doubt that it is Esau. The way they've kept his name hidden, it must be something that once revealed will have an immediate impact on the majority of the audience, and I don't think Esau will work as that. I still think it has to be someone we already know, and someone who's been significant to our experience with the show, at that (i.e. not Hanso or someone we've basically never seen).

 

[beelzebozo]

maybe he could have a name that contained the letters "esau," like. . . uh. . . thadeus?

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

There's a really good interview with Damon and Carlton here. They talk a bit more about the writing process. I wasn't particularly keeping an eye out for them, but I don't recall it veering into spoiler territory at all.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

They call me....

Spoiler

Caesar Eko of Abaddonia.

 

[bachikarn]

There's a really good interview with Damon and Carlton here. They talk a bit more about the writing process. I wasn't particularly keeping an eye out for them, but I don't recall it veering into spoiler territory at all.

yeah, its a good interview. They admitted they have been making shit up on the fly since 2004

 

[Apoc29]

You really think MIB is someone we know? We've already seen his "true" form (Titus Welliver), and it just doesn't make sense to attach a name to him from a character we can already put a face on. But if Titus isn't his true form, then what's the significance of it? Just so it can throw us off? "By the way guys, I'm actually a small black kid".

 

[duckroll]

You really think MIB is someone we know? We've already seen his "true" form (Titus Welliver), and it just doesn't make sense to attach a name to him from a character we can already put a face on. But if Titus isn't his true form, then what's the significance of it? Just so it can throw us off? "By the way guys, I'm actually a small black kid".

How do you know Titus is his "true" form? It might be one of his oldest, but it has been alluded to for some time now that he has lost his body, and that Jacob was responsible, and as such he takes on other forms when he's not a smoke monster. Titus could simply be playing someone who was close to him, and died, and whose form he took on.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Flocke is German for snowflake... maybe MIB's real name is Snowflake?

 

[Zeliard]

You really think MIB is someone we know? We've already seen his "true" form (Titus Welliver), and it just doesn't make sense to attach a name to him from a character we can already put a face on. But if Titus isn't his true form, then what's the significance of it? Just so it can throw us off? "By the way guys, I'm actually a small black kid".

I don't think Titus is his true form, particularly due to that one scene on the beach with Titus begging Jacob to let him leave. So presumably, everything that's real now was real then, other than Jacob being dead. But nothing else may have necessarily changed - Titus back then was almost certainly still the smoke monster, especially if you look at the hieroglyphics (like the one with Smokey and Anubis).

Since Titus blames Jacob for stealing his body and turning him into Smokey, and the Egyptian imagery seems to indicate that Titus has been Smokey for a very, very long time, then I think it's safe to say that Titus isn't his real form either.

Edit: fine, duckroll. Be all pithy and concise.

 

[randomwab]

Flocke is German for snowflake... maybe MIB's real name is Snowflake?

 

[The Elite]

There's a really good interview with Damon and Carlton here. They talk a bit more about the writing process. I wasn't particularly keeping an eye out for them, but I don't recall it veering into spoiler territory at all.

Great interview.