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[Tralfamadore64]

Is there an alternate thread on this episode that people are flashing in and out of?

I'm not seeing the army of people crying out for answers.

A handful, but no, not armies. Also, things happen outside of GAF. They do. It's true.

 

[Arment]

Is there an alternate thread on this episode that people are flashing in and out of?

I'm not seeing the army of people crying out for answers.

Usually when the thread gets to around this point, people who come in and just hate on every episode are gone.

Easily my favorite portion of the thread. :lol

 

[Tralfamadore64]

You're right. Any GAF hate I may have been referring too took place early after the episode aired, at which point it's difficult to have a meaningful discussion about the episode because every post gets swamped by three instant pages of "The fuck? No name?".

Next week and for the finale I think I'll wait until Thursday to start posting.

 

[brandonh83]

The cryptic video that plays in Room 23 is always something I've always wondered about and thought about a lot. Don't know how many times I've seen it. Way back then I was convinced that the video held all the answers or some shit like that. It's just a very eerie, cryptic, weird video that makes your brain want to take a stroll to each end of the universe. :lol

 

[Aeonin]

Sneak peek at next episode has me so excited.

Spoiler

Sawyer thinking he's to blame for bomb on sub. Jack talking about the rules. Though whats up with Jack all saying, "I've been wrong before"? At this point his ass should be singing the praises and spreading the gospel.

 

[Catalix]

The cryptic video that plays in Room 23 is always something I've always wondered about and thought about a lot. Don't know how many times I've seen it. Way back then I was convinced that the video held all the answers or some shit like that. It's just a very eerie, cryptic, weird video that makes your brain want to take a stroll to each end of the universe. :lol

The room 23 video is another perfect example of how far off the mark the modern day Others were, under Ben's leadership.

Brainwashing someone into being a "good" person? Yeah, I'm sure Jacob would approve.

 

[Larson Conway]

AGH. Fuck me. First time I heard this. WTF. Soooooo awesome. Just awe-inspiring. Mygahd. Shit makes me all mushy inside T.T

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo6mmnKOBts&feature=related Jump to 2.23 if you want to hear the good part, provided you haven't yet.

 

[Arment]

The room 23 video is another perfect example of how far off the mark the modern day Others were, under Ben's leadership.

Brainwashing someone into being a "good" person? Yeah, I'm sure Jacob would approve.

It was a Dharma Initiative experiment. Zoe said so in The Package.

I think he just had Karl sent there because he didn't want him screwing his daughter.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Sneak peek at next episode has me so excited.

Spoiler

Sawyer thinking he's to blame for bomb on sub. Jack talking about the rules. Though whats up with Jack all saying, "I've been wrong before"? At this point his ass should be singing the praises and spreading the gospel.

*orgasm*

 

[Catalix]

It was a Dharma Initiative experiment. Zoe said so in The Package.

I think he just had Karl sent there because he didn't want him screwing his daughter.

The room itself was created by Dharma for their experiments, but the video Karl was shown was appropriated by the Others sometime after the purge.

The video has subliminal messages about Jacob, for example.

 

[Arment]

The room itself was created by Dharma for their experiments, but the video Karl was shown was appropriated by the Others sometime after the purge.

The video has subliminal messages about Jacob, for example.

The "God loves you as He loved Jacob" slide is a reference to Malachi 1:2-3 and Romans 9:13.

from Lostpedia.

Interesting bit:

Paul quotes Malachi in Romans to show that God chose to bless Jacob and his descendants and to curse Esau and his descendants. The blessings/cursings were not based on the two brothers' righteousness or sins, but rather on God's prerogative.

Some interesting shit can be extrapolated from that.

 

[Zabka]

A handful, but no, not armies. Also, things happen outside of GAF. They do. It's true.

There's nothing outside of GAF. NOTHING!

 

[Catalix]

The "God loves you as He loved Jacob" slide is a reference to Malachi 1:2-3 and Romans 9:13.

from Lostpedia.

I know what that particular text is a reference to. But I'm saying the Others must've cut the video we saw, not Dharma. Why would Dhama insert a message like that?

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

AGH. Fuck me. First time I heard this. WTF. Soooooo awesome. Just awe-inspiring. Mygahd. Shit makes me all mushy inside T.T

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo6mmnKOBts&feature=related Jump to 2.23 if you want to hear the good part, provided you haven't yet.

What's the name of the song that starts at 2:23 (atleast the name rhythm).

 

[JumpJeff84]

Smoke Monster is responsible for the messages in the video, IMHO.

 

[Arment]

I know what that particular text is a reference to. But I'm saying the Others must've cut the video we saw, not Dharma. Why would Dhama insert a message like that?

Well it's all supposed to be subliminal. Who knows what their intended goal was. The fact that it references Jacob is just like one in a hundred other coincidences they plant in the show.

Room 23 was a pretty popular answer that the fans wanted. And that we've had an explanation about the room from a character like Zoe pretty much solidifies my opinion on it. They don't normally do things like that. As StuBurns is apt to say, the show is very didactic.

 

[hamchan]

You're right. Any GAF hate I may have been referring too took place early after the episode aired, at which point it's difficult to have a meaningful discussion about the episode because every post gets swamped by three instant pages of "The fuck? No name?".

Next week and for the finale I think I'll wait until Thursday to start posting.

Well I'd say that most of the hate arguments are valid, they just get repeated over and over by different people.

 

[UrbanRats]

There's already a lot of hate in this thread, it seems, so i don't wanna make it worst, but am i the only one who found costumes and props really lame in this episode? For a second i wasn't sure if i was watching Lost or Hercules. °__°

 

[Arment]

Well I'd say that most of the hate arguments are valid, they just get repeated over and over by different people.

A lot of the hate was pretty irrational. Not saying all of it was. But what was frustrating was mainly the negativity about the heart of the island, hate about how the smoke monster came to be, the hate of the fact that the show has a being who can do things that are basically magic or a lack of answers in the episode.

Most of those things were main themes of the show in S1. Locke even referred to the heart of the island WHILE looking into the smoke.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Random mystery question: dharma Supply drop

What are the latest(old) theories about that?

 

[CartridgeBlower]

Jacob had MIB's dagger after Richard tried to kill him with it. He probably passed it to Dogen. Dogen sent Sayid to kill MIB with it, hoping that MIB would actually kill Sayid for him.

Ah, yes, you're right. Forgot about the Richard connection.

The only thing that bothers me about Dogen trying to get Sayid killed because he had 'the sickness,' is that why would he send him to MiB, who seems to be the origin/reason for the sickness? Didn't Dogen know that MiB would recognize Sayid -- "Oh, it's Sayid, the dude I just infected so he could serve me."

I never really understood that...unless MiB turns out not to have anything to do with the sickness, which I heavily doubt.

Maybe Dogen knew all that, and knew Sayid would be sent back to kill him, hence freeing him like the Mother seemed to be free.

Assisted suicide is really turning into a theme of the show. :lol

 

[Arment]

Random mystery question: dharma Supply drop

What are the latest(old) theories about that?

My theory is that it has something to do with Daniel's rocket experiment.

 

[Catalix]

Well it's all supposed to be subliminal. Who knows what their intended goal was. The fact that it references Jacob is just like one in a hundred other coincidences they plant in the show.

Room 23 was a pretty popular answer that the fans wanted. And that we've had an explanation about the room from a character like Zoe pretty much solidifies my opinion on it. They don't normally do things like that. As StuBurns is apt to say, the show is very didactic.

Not sure I'm getting what you're saying. The Others later using the facilities for their own purposes (after the purge) doesn't contradict what Zoe says Dharma originally used it for.

Just like every other structure on the Island that was made by "outsiders," the Others eventually swoop in and customize it to their liking. Room 23 wouldn't be any different.

 

[John Harker]

Random mystery question: dharma Supply drop

What are the latest(old) theories about that?

you know how like, there are random windows of time/place where the island appears and disappears to the outside world? and like, we saw Daniel faraday jump back to the 50s and yo! hi mom, take me to your bomb?

yea... theres your dharma supply drop. someone got the bearing wrong. Sometimes doing that makes minkowski's nose bleed, sometimes doing that makes desmond do jumping jacks in the rain, sometimes doing that drops food 30 years in the future

 

[Arment]

Not sure I'm getting what you're saying. The Others later using the facilities for their own purposes (after the purge) doesn't contradict what Zoe says Dharma originally used it for.

Just like every other structure on the Island that was made by "outsiders," the Others eventually swoop in and customize it to their liking. Room 23 wouldn't be any different.

It just doesn't seem to really fit them though. Their style.

Ben was using it as a way to punish Karl to me. I don't think he was a test dummy for some huge experiment.

 

[BlueSummers]

I think everyone is forgetting what all these characters have gone through since crashing. So many people killed and so many lives changed forever. Why? Because some crazy lady told a naive young man that he had to protect a shining light of E/M.

Sooo much pain and suffering, all for something that could be a lie. That is what the heart of the show is to me and last episode was amazing because it humanized what was prior to be thought of as 'gods" and really solidifies that this chain of events leads all the way up to the flight of oceanic 815 and the story of those who were on it.

 

[Catalix]

There's already a lot of hate in this thread, it seems, so i don't wanna make it worst, but am i the only one who found costumes and props really lame in this episode? For a second i wasn't sure if i was watching Lost or Hercules. °__°

One of the biggest gripes out there was the episode's overall production. It was pretty jarring for a lot of people.

 

[John Harker]

I think everyone is forgetting what all these characters have gone through since crashing. So many people killed and so many lives changed forever. Why? Because some crazy lady told a naive young man that he had to protect a shining light of E/M.

Sooo much pain and suffering, all for something that could be a lie. That is what the heart of the show is to me and last episode was amazing because it humanized what was prior to be thought of as 'gods" and really solidifies that this chain of events leads all the way up to the flight of oceanic 815 and the story of those who were on it.

wholeheartedly feel the same way. i like last episode even more for that very human reasoning. it's not some warring game between gods, or some science experiment gone terribly wrong, or the US drilling for oil, or any of that... it's really about loneliness, terrible loneliness, bad parenting, generational sin, love, guilt... human choice, ya know, relatable, real things. wrapped in lies.

 

[CartridgeBlower]

I think everyone is forgetting what all these characters have gone through since crashing. So many people killed and so many lives changed forever. Why? Because some crazy lady told a naive young man that he had to protect a shining light of E/M.

Sooo much pain and suffering, all for something that could be a lie. That is what the heart of the show is to me and last episode was amazing because it humanized what was prior to be thought of as 'gods" and really solidifies that this chain of events leads all the way up to the flight of oceanic 815 and the story of those who were on it.

That's why I kinda get the feeling that the ultimate end of the show will be the main characters REJECTION of the island.

It was clearly shown last week that this whole battle is between two sheltered brothers who had a crazy mother. Remember, the VO from the show recap to start the season ended with "free will..." The only exercise of free will I could see any of these characters making (since they've been so heavily manipulated throughout the entire show), would be to say 'fuck it.'

Fuck the island. Fuck the rules. Fuck Jacob.

Maybe a little crude, but something along those lines. Rejection.

 

[Catalix]

It just doesn't seem to really fit them though. Their style.

Ben was using it as a way to punish Karl to me. I don't think he was a test dummy for some huge experiment.

They put Walt in the room too. They were up to some crazy shit, I think.

and not a huge experiment, just brainwashing.

 

[RustyNails]

So the dress magic Mom was wearing...was it Greek/Roman or Egyptian?

also btw, does anyone have a gif of Sayid running in the sub and blowing up from the episode before last one?

 

[Arment]

They put Walt in the room too. They were up to some crazy shit, I think.

and not a huge experiment, just brainwashing.

I forgot Walt completely. Damn. Conceded then for sure.

 

[UrbanRats]

One of the biggest gripes out there was the episode's overall production. It was pretty jarring for a lot of people.

Yeah, to me, it kinda kept me out of the mood.. :/

 

[Arment]

I don't get it. What about the production?

 

[Catalix]

That's why I kinda get the feeling that the ultimate end of the show will be the main characters REJECTION of the island.

It was clearly shown last week that this whole battle is between two sheltered brothers who had a crazy mother. Remember, the VO from the show recap to start the season ended with "free will..." The only exercise of free will I could see any of these characters making (since they've been so heavily manipulated throughout the entire show), would be to say 'fuck it.'

Fuck the island. Fuck the rules. Fuck Jacob.

Maybe a little crude, but something along those lines. Rejection.

That would be such an awesome note to leave the show on. Fuck the Island! :lol

"Make your own kind of music"

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I don't get it. What about the production?

The first shot of the GlowHole was very...unLOST.

 

[RustyNails]

That's why I kinda get the feeling that the ultimate end of the show will be the main characters REJECTION of the island.

It was clearly shown last week that this whole battle is between two sheltered brothers who had a crazy mother. Remember, the VO from the show recap to start the season ended with "free will..." The only exercise of free will I could see any of these characters making (since they've been so heavily manipulated throughout the entire show), would be to say 'fuck it.'

Fuck the island. Fuck the rules. Fuck Jacob.

Maybe a little crude, but something along those lines. Rejection.

But Jack is choosing to stay on the island by his own free will. That's the pickle.

 

[CartridgeBlower]

But Jack is choosing to stay on the island by his own free will. That's the pickle.

Not really free will when Jacob essentially made that decision for him by showing him the lighthouse, which in turn got him to stay. Jack is still just following the plan Jacob laid out for him. He's still being manipulated.

And besides, there has to be a twist in there somewhere. It's SO obvious Jack is the next 'protector,' that I'm thinking Lindelcuse have something else up their sleeve.

 

[DEO3]

While everyone else is arguing about how stupid the episode was because the light wasn't explained or the rules were made up out of thin air or there's no way Mother could've buried his wheel and killed all those people, my wife brought up an unexplained mystery that's now bothering me more than any other - how did Mother feed the newborn twins for the first year of their lives, since she just bashed their only source of food in the head with a rock mere moments after they were born?

 

[RustyNails]

While everyone else is arguing about how stupid the episode was because the light wasn't explained or the rules were made up out of thin air or there's no way Mother could've buried his wheel and killed all those people, my wife brought up an unexplained mystery that's now bothering me more than any other - how did Mother feed the newborn twins for the first year of their lives, since she just bashed their only source of food in the head with a rock mere moments after they were born?

she had tits too

 

[Snuggles]

It's a lot to axe, but I was wondering if one of you GIF makers could make me a GIF of the scene during Confidence Man of S1 when Sawyer is smiling and Jack punches him in the face and his cup of water explodes. It would make a perfect GIF, I'll compensate you somehow.

 

[Tralfamadore64]

While everyone else is arguing about how stupid the episode was because the light wasn't explained or the rules were made up out of thin air or there's no way Mother could've buried his wheel and killed all those people, my wife brought up an unexplained mystery that's now bothering me more than any other - how did Mother feed the newborn twins for the first year of their lives, since she just bashed their only source of food in the head with a rock mere moments after they were born?

You don't want to know, man. Trust me.

 

[G-Fex]

I don't know, it seems like this is an entirely different arc than previous seasons everything Jacob related that is. It's like it started on the Island Arc, the dharma arc, time traveling arc, then this Jacob and MiB arc. Doesn't all flow into one cohesive story.

Sorry I'm babbling cause I'm bored.

 

[Arment]

While everyone else is arguing about how stupid the episode was because the light wasn't explained or the rules were made up out of thin air or there's no way Mother could've buried his wheel and killed all those people, my wife brought up an unexplained mystery that's now bothering me more than any other - how did Mother feed the newborn twins for the first year of their lives, since she just bashed their only source of food in the head with a rock mere moments after they were born?

If she can destroy a whole village, she can definitely scrape together some baby formula. :lol

 

[Blader]

Random mystery question: dharma Supply drop

What are the latest(old) theories about that?

A food drop that was lost en route to the island back in the 70s, before Dharma figured out the island's time dilation. It arrived in 2004 by chance (or FATE).

 

[Catalix]

I don't get it. What about the production?

I guess I meant things like acting, script, set/costume design. If the technical things are executed poorly, it can be very distracting, even ruin the episode. Which is definitely how how I felt.

Me personally, I actually liked most of the mythological reveals, the themes they were exploring, and the overall story they were trying to tell. But I can't let the production issues I mentioned slide. LOST usually prides itself on those things, and I thought it fell short this time. Disappointing, but eh, it is what it is.

 

[BlueSummers]

I'm really starting to think that the island is not any real place, but just a special island because it's the source of all the E/M on the planet. This leads to the revelation of time travel, healing pools (fountain of youth), and other phenomenons. Let's connect this to the real world and just think of how insane it would be to discover that.

Dharma was there testing all that crazy stuff out, but the only thing that's throwing me off is the whole Egyptian motif that's been boldly hinted at and where everything STARTED. More specifically, who the the first person to ever set foot on the island. This is the biggest thing I want revealed, which conflicts with my earlier post about how LOST is character driven for me, but I just wanna know to much. :lol

 

[Panda Bear]

What's the name of the song that starts at 2:23 (atleast the name rhythm).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hre5fkdq-0

Fucking amazing.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

I guess I meant things like acting, script, set/costume design. If the technical things are executed poorly, it can be very distracting, even ruin the episode. Which is definitely how how I felt.

Me personally, I actually liked most of the mythological reveals, the themes they were exploring, and the overall story they were trying to tell. But I can't let the production issues I mentioned slide. LOST usually prides itself on those things, and I thought it fell short this time. Disappointing, but eh, it is what it is.

Basically. When plotted out on paper, plenty of these things sound totally badass. But delivery felt like they had one take for most of the scenes and the props had arrived the day before the shoot. The episode gives you a nice present that was just poorly wrapped.

 

[ZAK]

you know how like, there are random windows of time/place where the island appears and disappears to the outside world? and like, we saw Daniel faraday jump back to the 50s and yo! hi mom, take me to your bomb?

yea... theres your dharma supply drop. someone got the bearing wrong. Sometimes doing that makes minkowski's nose bleed, sometimes doing that makes desmond do jumping jacks in the rain, sometimes doing that drops food 30 years in the future

A food drop that was lost en route to the island back in the 70s, before Dharma figured out the island's time dilation. It arrived in 2004 by chance (or FATE).

Insufficient. The Swan was supplied for a long time, so there must have been periodic drops; that's no coincidence. I would say Dharma intentionally exploited the island's properties to send supply drops decades ahead of time.