The game where you date his niece.
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RED ASH Kickstarter crashes n burns (Comcept/Inafune/Hyde making Mega Man Legends 3)
- Thread starter TDLink
- Start date
The game where you date his niece.
amnesia
Member
Excellent post. I'm almost 100% sure it's not a coincidence. MN9 looks really, really bad.
SolidSnakex
Member
The impressions for it have all been pretty positive. It's not like Inti Creates makes bad games.
BassForever
Member
I feel like MN9's reaction with players is going to come down to how much people are willing to accept the dash into enemies mechanic and more speed run/time attack nature of the game. If you liked or think Azure Strike Gunvolt is a good game you'll probably like MN9.
I want to just jump in and fund this game, but the MN9 beta left a semi-bad taste in my mouth. I was also severally underwhelmed by the final look of the game. I wasn't expecting 2d sprites or anything, but I at least wanted decent cell shading and art. It looks more like a indy Unity game though. Hopefully the final game will pull me in more.
Regardless, I'm going to hold off funding this for now unless they release some WIP material that excites me.
Regardless, I'm going to hold off funding this for now unless they release some WIP material that excites me.
What kind of hot scalding Jazmin Chai! You really really nailed most of the problems I have with this.
I can totally see somewhere a CAPCOM executive twisting the performance of this KS and finding validation about what they did to MML3. Mess.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
The Tronne Bonne of this series?
Spieler Eins
Member
And in which he made himself into a character portrayed as ,,game design legend''.
Don't forget Bloodstained had publisher backing while this does not. I doubt BS could have afforded to make physical copies without that publisher money as an example.
If the only reason you liked Mega Man Legends was because of the IP or the story than yeah, that makes sense. If you liked it primarily for any other reason, this is probably as close as you're ever going to get. All the other reasons are mostly fair though.
A) Announcing kickstarters at Expos is great because a lot of eyes tend to be one them. I figure though that this got announced at Anime Expo because of the associated anime project - most eyes on Anime Expo care more about anime than video games I'd assume. The whole "July 4th weekend" though is something they should have considered and it looks like they didn't.
B) Considering that Yooka-Laylee and Bloodstained didn't interfere with each other, I didn't think launching near a big Kickstater is automatically a problem. Also, again, Kickstater launches are planned months in advance and trying to move things around can be very difficult (to say nothing of the fact that you could easily run afoul of another big Kickstater). If you think Shenmue 3, etc. is causing KS fatigue, then that's just bad luck on Inafune's part, not a mistake out right.
C) Comcept is a production management company, not a developer or a publisher. The other similar companies I can think of are Mistwalker (run by the Gooch) and Sora (run by Sakurai). In every case, all their games have a publisher behind them - they aren't self funding games and I think it likely has to do with the fact that those sorts of companies may not have the capital to fund "bigger" titles by themselves. Remember, any revenue that Mighty No. 9 generates gets split up by a ton of different companies. Deep Silver and Inticreates clearly have to get their cut and they aren't involved with this project. Now it would have been nice if a prototype could have been put together but I don't know Comcept's financials (nor do you) so I have no idea if this is a case in which they straight up couldn't or they just decided not to.
Overall I think not backing this because you want to see some gameplay, aren't sure of the scope, are tapped out due to other expenses, etc. are all fair. I just think of the points you mention, some are bad luck, some are just circumstances they really couldn't overcome and then some are actual mistakes.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Technically you don't date his niece, you play as his niece dating the hot guys you happen to be trapped with.
It is already happening in this thread with gaffers saying that the failure of this kickstarter justify CAPCOM actions. Only a matter of time before the executives at CAPCOM pat themselves on the back for that blunder .
krypt0nian
Banned
PING me when there is a PS4 goal funded.
Capcom has no cule what to do with megaman. They should sell him to another company so they can invest that money into other products. Right now megaman needs to show that it work in a post platformers gaming landscape and they cancelled the best game to showcase that . nostalgia alone won't work and CAPCOM knows it . I would much rather have a Kickstarter to get the rights to megaman .
Honestly, I really disagree that Mega Man should go to Inafune. On the contrary, I think it deserves to find its legs away from Inafune's shadow. I honestly think the brand is too heavily associated with a guy whose main role in it has always been as a producer/businessman rather than an actual game designer. The guy deserves credit for being a big supporter and advocate for the franchise, but he didn't actually make the games.
Yacht Club broke away because they wanted to work on new IPs more.
That said they're big enough MM nerds that they'd probably accept, but then the issue arises of "will capcom give such a legendary IP to an indie studio with only one game under their belt as an original team?"
Couldnt have said it better. Really fucking unbelievable all they have is some very rough storyboards for an in game cinematic and are expecting hundreds of thousands for a rough idea of a game.
Has been the opposite for me. People I know who've played the beta have generally been negative. Having played it myself: I liked it at first, but got frustrated as I continued playing. It focuses far too much on a combo mechanic that doesn't work well, and the level design is more frustrating than fun.
I think that it has a decent concept, but it really isn't executed well enough. It plays more like a mediocre Azure Striker Gunvolt-like game than a spiritual successor to Mega Man.
Just saw the kickstarter promotion video and I still have no idea what this is about.
Description is even more vague. Free roaming anime world? I mean are they trying to be open world action rpg or something?
I'm just suprised some ppl want to back this project. Also I think inafune is taking kickstarter as granted at this point.
Description is even more vague. Free roaming anime world? I mean are they trying to be open world action rpg or something?
I'm just suprised some ppl want to back this project. Also I think inafune is taking kickstarter as granted at this point.
Well yeah. The audience is on consoles. If they're waiting to add console versions as stretch goals past $2 million then they've failed.
Well MML3 is just never going to happen sadly.
Sakura
Member
Yea you are likely right. But I'm interested in MML because I want to see the story continue, I want to see more of the characters I liked, etc. MML is one of my favourite series of all time. Not really interested in a clone.
Secret Fawful
Member
I dunno. I'd be really happy to have more games that played just like Legends, because I really like the gameplay of it. Plus, we're never getting another Legends game
It's a third-person shooter like Legends with a big open world to explore, and a city reconstruction mechanic. You play as a bracer or delver or whatever the word was, someone who enters ruins and raids them for money, which then goes to upgrades to your weapons and other kinds of upgrades at Call's shop. There's more story they're not talking about, but it's obvious they've teased a Tron Bonne type of character.
Well I really like the Legends style of play so I am not looking at this as a continuation but rather a reboot / successor.
I'm only backing $25 right now and depending on how the rest of the campaign goes I will either increase that or drop it. But for now I'll stick to $25.
Sakura
Member
The kickstarter page makes it clear this is supposed to be Legends. From the name of the game, gameplay style, stuff like "However, their livelihoods are supported by the brave fools who hunt the dangerous ruins and wastelands for Lost Technology. These people are known simply as Delvers", etc.
I have no idea how they are going to pull off if description is true. Comcept's track record is not exactly stellar.
Nightengale
Member
Conceptually, the proof of concept already exist. It's called MM Legends 2/Rockman Dash 2.
The onus is on whether or not the developer(Hyde) can successfully recreate that for a new generation.
If they follow usual Kickstarter trends (don't look at the trending figure on Kicktraq), they should both at least meet the initial goals.
Kickstarters usually make around 30% on the first few days, and another 30% on the last few days. Following this, they should both pass the initial hurdle, but not necessarily make it to any of the stretch goals.
However, as I've repeatedly said, it is abundantly clear that the initial funding goals are not what Comcept were aiming for/expecting.
Hitting those will merely get us a prologue and a 5 minute short. Yes, that's what they set, but I don't think they didn't expect to meet all their goals similar to Mighty No. 9.
They greatly overestimated their own worth and the amount of good will they would receive.
We'll get products, but very few would be pleased with those results.
This is barring major changes to the campaign, similar to how Shenmue III pffering physical PS4 copies in the middle of the campaign greatly increased the amount of funds and average pledge. Offering the physical games on consoles are also what kept the average so high for Bloodstained, as this is usually rate for Kickstarter.
Pureauthor
Member
Wonder how things would've been instead if he'd managed to wrangle a deal with Capcom to try to get the actual MMLegends3 kickstarted.
Secret Fawful
Member
They really should have waited, gotten a prototype together to have something to show with gameplay, and then launched the campaign in September or October.
rockman zx
Member
Not gonna happen, Capcom will never agree.
I really struggle to understand this, so they rather use money to "improve or expand" the story than making it available to more people and with this making the chances of the KS campaign to be more successful?.
zeopower6
Member
I think both should get funded eventually with how much time is left in their campaigns.
Stretch goals though... probably not happening. The 'final' 2.4 million dollar goal of a feature length version of the anime KS is a little too much >_>~
Someone hit the nail on the head earlier in this topic - people want Megaman Legends 3, because Legends 2 ended on a cliff hanger. They don't want a spiritual successor, they want resolution to the plot.
Yu Suzuki probably wouldn't have been nearly as successful kickstarting a spiritual successor to Shenmue, but even that would have had more success than this is having because Shenmue at least does things no other games do. Megaman Legends, as fun and great as they were, aren't really special anymore without the Megaman license. And Inafune is no Yu Suzuki.
I bet this will still get funded, but barely.
Sakura
Member
The anime goals don't make any sense to me.
There have been numerous articles in the past saying an episode of anime costs anywhere from 100~300k to make. That's like 20~ minutes of animation. Yet they want 650k for just a total of 20 minutes of animation? 2.35 million for just 75 minutes!? Must be some super high budget anime they plan to do, and they are getting 100% of the funding for it from KS. I can't see how they thought this one was a good idea.
stretch goals aren't solely for the intended target reward. That's not how kickstarters works.
Sakura
Member
I'm aware. But the goals are still way too high for what it is, and as such they will be lucky to hit the first.
You're aware? Your entire last post makes no sense in that context, then, since you're asking why 20 minutes of animation costs like $650k. It doesn't. The $650k they'd raise from the stretch goal doesn't just cover the anime...
Sakura
Member
I'm aware because it says right on the Kickstarter page how much is going to the anime budget...
I'm saying with that all in consideration, 650k is still too much. It's not going to happen. 47% of 650k is still over 300k, they should be able to get a budget for 20 minutes of animation for half that.
Please stop talking garbage when you have no idea what you're talking about. An episode of anime might cost 300k or less if you're making 12-26 episodes. Working on a series is not the same as working on a single short. Especially when you take into consideration pre-production. For a long form series you can take into account a lot of cost savings like reused footage, a longer contract for the director, etc.
The average cost for a 20-30 minute piece of animation from ground up in Japan if you're going to a decent quality is definitely closer to 400k. The budget provided for the Anime Mirai projects annually is 38 million yen for each short, which is usually about 25 minutes long. This is for what is considered training programs to stimulate the industry. The production cost for a 25 minute commercial OVA is usually even higher.
And all that is just for traditional animation. This Kickstarter is for a CG short. Good CG animation will cost even more.
A lot of TV anime straight up don't have good animation, they tend to be made on the cheap or with little time to spare. As a comparison point, one episode of Futurama could often cost $1 million dollars to make - animation costs are not constant, they are variable. If we are talking about high quality 3D CGI, then I can easily see costs being higher. Please don't pretend you have any idea how much it actually costs to make anime, especially when this is clearly aiming to be above standard TV anime quality.
A Link to the Past
Banned
...Eh, it all feels a bit dirty. They could have at least waited until MN9 came out, then at least people wouldn't be annoyed that the game they paid for isn't in their hands before Inafune wants more money again.
Honestly, I think their best bet would have been to work with Capcom on Kickstarting Mega Man Legends 3. I could see that being a passion project for Inafune, and I don't think people would be as upset since there's absolutely a point to the Kickstarter besides business.
Honestly, I think their best bet would have been to work with Capcom on Kickstarting Mega Man Legends 3. I could see that being a passion project for Inafune, and I don't think people would be as upset since there's absolutely a point to the Kickstarter besides business.